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Thread: MOTUC and Chase Figures

  1. #101
    Merchandise Collector jmb410s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shuptrine View Post
    I vote no chase figures. The line is called classic: In the 80's there were no chase figures.
    I agree with this statement
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by shuptrine View Post
    I vote no chase figures. The line is called classic: In the 80's there were no chase figures. They made action figures for kids to play with. I know this new line is for collectors, but the collectors were the kids who played with them in the 80's. Chase figures are one of the reasons I Hate toy companies today. "let's make the same figure and repaint it so we can sell more of the same crap". This is one of the reason I stop collecting the 2001 line and sold them off. I dig the whole concept of going on line and buy a new figure every month. I can get everything Mattel puts out without running store to store looking for the next figure. If there are chase figures, and there is one I want, I will have to go to eBay and search to get a figure that I should have been able to buy on Mattel's collectors site. I am pretty sure if Mattel does chase figures, then I will ditch the line.

    There were chase figures in the original 1980's line. Some were intentional, some were not. Some were specific to parts of the world. But there were "chase" figures. There are three I can think of that were intentional, and some others that might not have been. Plus, in the 80's line you had things like megator and tytus and LL and LP he-man and skeletor. Not really chase figures, but the same principle. This line will lack those. You wont get the south american variants either. The only way to get things like that is with chase figures. And, other then a few of the MOC 8-backs, those are they most sought after figures for the classic line, overall. PLus you had WB He-man, another "chase/variant".

    Its not exactly the same, but the same principles. Also, just becuase the original line did something, or didnt, doesnt mean those things would, or would not work now. The toy industry has changed a lot since then.

  3. #103
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    If we dont try to bring in the "speculators" as you call them( or as some people call them "action figure collectors" as they collect any action figure that peaks their interest) then this line is already doomed.
    Thereís our problem: terminology. Speculators are not the same as collectors, a point I actually made (ďif they aren't buying for the love of MOTU or action figures in generalĒ). Many collectors who were not MOTU fans hopped on board the 2002 line simply because the Horsemen sculpts were so breathtaking. Those are collectors, the folks you are talking about in this case, and thatís exactly who I hope comes in to this new line. But you make them synonymous with the people who will collect because thereís a chase figure thatís more valuable. Thatís who Iím defining as a speculator.

    There are two distinct groups here. One is collectors like me who will go for an action figure line on its own merits (Iíve no interest in video games, but I gobble up the cool Halo figures). Weíre talking the folks who bought Marvel Legends without being long time Marvel fans. Those we definitely do want to attract, because, unless the quality of the sculpt goes down or Mattel seriously changes the line, they will be a fairly stable market to tap (again, think of Marvel Legends).

    The second group is the one Iím talking about, those who will only get into a line if there are rare, hard to find figures with a higher value attached to them. To put it bluntly, they love the values, not the figures. Thatís a speculator, and thatís who chase figures in this case would attract for the most part. Thatís the market we donít want to count on or cater to, because they are the ones who will leave the line in the dust.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Thereís our problem: terminology. Speculators are not the same as collectors, a point I actually made (ďif they aren't buying for the love of MOTU or action figures in generalĒ). Many collectors who were not MOTU fans hopped on board the 2002 line simply because the Horsemen sculpts were so breathtaking. Those are collectors, the folks you are talking about in this case, and thatís exactly who I hope comes in to this new line. But you make them synonymous with the people who will collect because thereís a chase figure thatís more valuable. Thatís who Iím defining as a speculator.

    There are two distinct groups here. One is collectors like me who will go for an action figure line on its own merits (Iíve no interest in video games, but I gobble up the cool Halo figures). Weíre talking the folks who bought Marvel Legends without being long time Marvel fans. Those we definitely do want to attract, because, unless the quality of the sculpt goes down or Mattel seriously changes the line, they will be a fairly stable market to tap (again, think of Marvel Legends).

    The second group is the one Iím talking about, those who will only get into a line if there are rare, hard to find figures with a higher value attached to them. To put it bluntly, they love the values, not the figures. Thatís a speculator, and thatís who chase figures in this case would attract for the most part. Thatís the market we donít want to count on or cater to, because they are the ones who will leave the line in the dust.
    I am putting all other people that buy toys, for whatever reason, in the same group. Call them what you want, but I am talking about people that are not die hard motu fans. That includes gen toy collectors, speculators, kids, parents, anyone. This line needs to attrack all of those people to be succuessfull. Even the speculators as you defined them. There might be people that see the 4H desings and buy becuase of that. But those poeple are gonna be even more limited this time around then the 200x line, as this line has less visability. But most people that are just collectors, for whatever reason, will buy into a line if it is valuable and has the rare figures. And the mystique of the rare figures increases if its a random chance. I dont care why someone buys this line, just that they do. And despite Mattels current opinion, I dont think deep down they care either, as long as the line does well. So anything that could potentially bring in outside fans is a good thing to me. Even if it alianates some of the hard core fans. As I have said before, us die hard motu fans have proven we alone cant keep a line going.

    Like it or not, I would trade one die hard motu fan for 10 speculators that buy into the line. Nothing against us, or you, or anyone else. But MOTU needs new blood to survive. I wish we didnt need those folks to have a succesful line. I wish the die hard fans were a large enough group that it wouldnt matter. But we/it are not. And on top of that, we as a group have so many different things we want that no line, comic, movie or anything else will make us all (maybe not even a majority) happy.

  5. #105
    Evil Warrior Machinitess's Avatar
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    My only concern about chase figures is (like statue King Grayskull) not wanting that particular one and then, of course, having it shipped to me. Then the hassle of having to sell it then purchase on ebay the regular version I did want.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    I am putting all other people that buy toys, for whatever reason, in the same group. Call them what you want, but I am talking about people that are not die hard motu fans. That includes gen toy collectors, speculators, kids, parents, anyone. This line needs to attrack all of those people to be succuessfull.
    I'm sorry but there's absolutely no way this line will attract those people. Aside from MOTU fans the only other people that will be buying into this line are people hoping it'll increase in monetary value for them. Parent's aren't going to spend 20.00 on ONE figure for their kids and kids alone don't have that kind of money. This isn't something that mom's and dad's are just going to stumble across in the toy aisle. With the figures at the price point they are(plus you still have to pay shipping) the only people that will be buying them are MOTU collectors or toy collectors that maybe like a particular character. Other than that it'll be people hoping to sell them on e-bay. The website actually has "collector" in it's title. Those are the only people that will be looking at these figures.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    As I have said before, us die hard motu fans have proven we alone cant keep a line going.
    In general, I think that having as many people involved in collecting is what's needed to keep a line going. However, I don't think there is definitive proof that we alone can't keep a line going.

    In the case of the stactions, these were figures that did not interest all because they were statues. These were figures that NECA had to pay licensing rights for and thus the margins were smaller. These were figures that required unique molds for almost every piece. There were also middlemen for distribution which affected margin.

    Now, in the case of MOTUC. All of the figures reuse parts majorly. This means the costs of the majority of the molds are amortized out over a number of figures which means production costs are lower. Since Mattel is producing these, there is no licensing fees to be paid. Since Mattel is distributing these, there is no additional cost of shipping these from China to Mattel facilities then on to a store like AFX or Diamond Distribution (who in turn ships it to your comic shop).

    In the staction line, you could go to AFX and get a wave of 3 figures for $60/wave or $20/figure. In MOTUC you pay $20/figure. So, Mattel has a potentially greater profit margin because of what I mention above (potentially because materials costs are going up).

    The collectors supported 6 waves of stactions plus several exclusives. For many they were incredibly difficult to find if they could find them at all. We don't know how profitable the line was, but I would think it was safe to assume that the line wouldn't get 6 waves if they lost money every wave. With the potential for increased margins, it would seem possible to me that we could keep a line like MOTUC going.

  8. #108
    Heroic Warrior JohnnyQuick's Avatar
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    Ash is exactly right. This is about as budget as a line can get. Mattel knows this going in. They know their fanbase and target audience. It's us. Anyone new or outside of the MOTU community is just gravy.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    In general, I think that having as many people involved in collecting is what's needed to keep a line going. However, I don't think there is definitive proof that we alone can't keep a line going.

    In the case of the stactions, these were figures that did not interest all because they were statues. These were figures that NECA had to pay licensing rights for and thus the margins were smaller. These were figures that required unique molds for almost every piece. There were also middlemen for distribution which affected margin.

    Now, in the case of MOTUC. All of the figures reuse parts majorly. This means the costs of the majority of the molds are amortized out over a number of figures which means production costs are lower. Since Mattel is producing these, there is no licensing fees to be paid. Since Mattel is distributing these, there is no additional cost of shipping these from China to Mattel facilities then on to a store like AFX or Diamond Distribution (who in turn ships it to your comic shop).

    In the staction line, you could go to AFX and get a wave of 3 figures for $60/wave or $20/figure. In MOTUC you pay $20/figure. So, Mattel has a potentially greater profit margin because of what I mention above (potentially because materials costs are going up).

    The collectors supported 6 waves of stactions plus several exclusives. For many they were incredibly difficult to find if they could find them at all. We don't know how profitable the line was, but I would think it was safe to assume that the line wouldn't get 6 waves if they lost money every wave. With the potential for increased margins, it would seem possible to me that we could keep a line like MOTUC going.
    I see your point. But the stactions had a lot less risk for NECA. They presold alot of what they made. They had other distributors buying them before they were out. And from what i understand the 4H ate a lot of the cost they would have normally charged just to keep the figures going. There really is no direct example for this line, as it is basically the first of its kind. Its not the same as the stactions, or 200x or comm, or NA, or the classic stuff. Its also not the same as any other toy line in any other property. So there is nothing to compare it to directly.

    But if you look at the overall history of MOTU, as a property, compare that to other lines like Transformers, GI Joe, Mcfarlane stuff, My little pony, whatever other ones and you see we have one of the smallest fan bases. GI Joe and Transformers have been around, for the most part, the better part of 30 years. And have never really gone entirly off the market (im including toys, comics, cartoons, movies, and merchandise). But in MOTU there was a gap between the classic line and NA. Between NA and comm/200x/stactions lines. And now between 200x/stactions and MOTUC. And during those breaks MOTU was more or less dead, as far as retail and any type of sales. Becuase we are a smaller group we alone could not sustain the lines when things got down. I am pretty sure that if NECA and the 4H had done stactions of GI Joe in the same way they did MOTU that they would have sold like hot cakes. That NECA would have fought tooth and nail to keep that license, and even if they hadnt and had lost it, but still got permision to due a two pack that those fans enjoyed...like the situation now with the faker/kahn 2 pack...they would have jumped on it. All those cost that you stated associated with the stactions are all but paid and over and the cost to do the 2pack is limited only to the materials now, as the molds are done, the 4h are paid, and they wouldnt have to pay mattel as they have permision to make it.

    I am basing my opinions on MOTU history, sales figures I have seen, people on here, and things like that. Yes there are a lot of less costs involved in the production of this line, and yes the price point is higher to help with profits. But if this line only attracts the hard core motu fans then I really dont see it going on long. As is evidence just by reading the posts on this site, not even all of us are on board with this line. And there may be characters that a lot of people might not want being motu hard core fans, that maybe a person just in it for the cool look might. Im not saying I have a crystal ball and know what is gonna happen, but just from my views on history and thoughts on how things work now that this is what I feel. I very well maybe wrong, and I hope very much that to be the case. I am not arguning that this is what I want to happen. Just what I think will.

    I personally love motu and hope it sells like gangbusters. But I see problems with some suggestions and dont think some of them will work for people outside of this community, weather i agree or not. Its funny...I always feel like I am defending views on here and that people think just becuase I think this is what may or may not happen that that is how I think it should happen, or that I am negative toward this line or motu in general. Which is not the case. I hope you all understand that.

  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    actually there IS precedent for this kind of line and oddly enough it is brought to you by the very same people sculpting the new MOTUC.

    the 4 horsemen.

    the line is fantastic fan exclusives.. an even smaller scale 1 figure a year line with numerous variants.

    last year's toy even has it's own line, the 7th kingdom(if you dont know what this it YOU MUST CHECK IT OUT!!!)

    it is a line that in many ways reflects what mattel is trying to do. however one main difference is that numerous websites have their own exclusive version of the figure. but each variant wasnt that hard to get. you could even buy all of them in a set as well.
    I want NA Skeletor and Rio Blast and I want them now!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    actually there IS precedent for this kind of line and oddly enough it is brought to you by the very same people sculpting the new MOTUC.

    the 4 horsemen.

    the line is fantastic fan exclusives.. an even smaller scale 1 figure a year line with numerous variants.

    last year's toy even has it's own line, the 7th kingdom(if you dont know what this it YOU MUST CHECK IT OUT!!!)

    it is a line that in many ways reflects what mattel is trying to do. however one main difference is that numerous websites have their own exclusive version of the figure. but each variant wasnt that hard to get. you could even buy all of them in a set as well.
    Yeah I know about these. But its still not the same. MOTU is supposed to be a big property. And we will have a lot more figures in a year. The only other time something of this scale was even tried was Hasbros DTC Joe line. That had a lot of the same ideas and is an entire line. Only problem is that it bombed horribly. Thats the closest thing to what Mattel is currently trying to do.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    Yeah I know about these. But its still not the same. MOTU is supposed to be a big property. And we will have a lot more figures in a year. The only other time something of this scale was even tried was Hasbros DTC Joe line. That had a lot of the same ideas and is an entire line. Only problem is that it bombed horribly. Thats the closest thing to what Mattel is currently trying to do.
    Hasbro are actually going to release wave 4 in that DTC line soon, so it's not completely dead.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketPunch View Post
    Hasbro are actually going to release wave 4 in that DTC line soon, so it's not completely dead.
    This is the second go around. This time it is only working because the Joe line actually has some retail support behind it and some visability.

    This is also the second hasbro online store. That first DTC Joe line cuased the first site to close becuase of the sales, and they didnt want anything in the future to be associated with that line.

    So in short, this is the second attempt. The first one failed. It wasnt until the line had some type of retail backing that it worked at all.

  14. #114
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    Like it or not, I would trade one die hard motu fan for 10 speculators that buy into the line. Nothing against us, or you, or anyone else.
    And that is exactly what the comic book industry did in the 1990s. And that's exactly why there's barely a comic book industry today.

    This is the point I'm trying to make: during the comic book speculator binge, there were about four shops in my area. Three hopped on the wagon and went after the big bucks with speculators. One (my regular shop) kept his focus on his regular customers. (When the death of Superman came out, the other shops ordered loads and some charged 20 bucks the first day. My shop ordered 20 extra copies and sold them for cover price.) There's one comic book shop left in business around here today: mine (World of Comics in South Daytona, FL, pardon the plug). Steve, the owner, realized where his bread and butter was, and kept his focus on the folks who would still be around after the speculators moved on.

    Those who catered to the speculators and ignored the long time fans went out of business. The one who didn't is still in business. And I'd wager that is what you will find with most of the surviving comic book shops.

    Sorry, but I'm looking at keeping MOTU around for a while, which is why I'm so passionate in my arguments here (nothing is intended against you, personally, so please don't take it that way). Attracting speculators at the expense of actual collectors is the best way I know to make sure the line dies, as the 90's comic collapse (and the previous baseball card market collapse and the recent housing collpase) prove. Speculator driven markets implode, and they tend to do so very rapidly. I'll take one collector (MOTU or general action figure) who will stick with the line as long as it runs over ten speculators who will bolt the minute the values go down a dollar or two. That's your bread and butter, and that's the market that will allow you to keep selling your product for a long time to come.

    History shows a stable, dependable market is what you DON'T get with speculators. I want this line to last, so I don't want to see Mattel go down that path. If they do, it will fail, just as it always has.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    And that is exactly what the comic book industry did in the 1990s. And that's exactly why there's barely a comic book industry today.

    This is the point I'm trying to make: during the comic book speculator binge, there were about four shops in my area. Three hopped on the wagon and went after the big bucks with speculators. One (my regular shop) kept his focus on his regular customers. (When the death of Superman came out, the other shops ordered loads and some charged 20 bucks the first day. My shop ordered 20 extra copies and sold them for cover price.) There's one comic book shop left in business around here today: mine (World of Comics in South Daytona, FL, pardon the plug). Steve, the owner, realized where his bread and butter was, and kept his focus on the folks who would still be around after the speculators moved on.

    Those who catered to the speculators and ignored the long time fans went out of business. The one who didn't is still in business. And I'd wager that is what you will find with most of the surviving comic book shops.

    Sorry, but I'm looking at keeping MOTU around for a while, which is why I'm so passionate in my arguments here (nothing is intended against you, personally, so please don't take it that way). Attracting speculators at the expense of actual collectors is the best way I know to make sure the line dies, as the 90's comic collapse (and the previous baseball card market collapse and the recent housing collpase) prove. Speculator driven markets implode, and they tend to do so very rapidly. I'll take one collector (MOTU or general action figure) who will stick with the line as long as it runs over ten speculators who will bolt the minute the values go down a dollar or two. That's your bread and butter, and that's the market that will allow you to keep selling your product for a long time to come.

    History shows a stable, dependable market is what you DON'T get with speculators. I want this line to last, so I don't want to see Mattel go down that path. If they do, it will fail, just as it always has.
    The people I am talking about are not just speculators. lets forget about them for a minute. There are still action figure collectors that are gonna need some reason to buy this line. Those are the people i am talking about.

    And as far as the comic industry being so bad off....and speculators killing it. I disagree. Yes, during the 90's comics took a huge down turn. But that want becuase of just speculators. The fact everything was a crossover, and the fact that their were 100 different covers for every issue killed it. Thats the companys fault, no one elses. And as a whole, the comic industry is doing very very well right now. Even though they are falling into a lot of those bad habits again. Thats another story altogether.

    And the housing crisis is not all the specultors fault either. When intrest rates go up and a persons house payment doubles that cuases issues. And when banks make 300,000 dollar home loans to people that cant even pay a cell phone bill you run into problems. Add that to an economy that sucks, and ajob market in shambles and you have a housing crisis.

    Yes specultors as you call them factor in, but are not the sole cause of anything. And if companys do business in an intelignet manner then speculators wont be an issue. But to ignore a whole set of people becuase they may or may not cause future problems is silly. If Mattel handles their end it makes no differnce what the buyers intentions are after purchase.

  16. #116
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    Man, this thread is starting to make my head hurt.

    Whose bright idea was this thread, anyway?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    The problem of having entirly new releases for variants is that this line is only released once and a variant may not be as widely sought after or purchased and to have it as the only relase for that month might not be the best idea. I know there are issues with doing chase items, but i think the benifits out weight the problems, especially if you are Mattel

    In the current order format it wont help as much, but for those that would only order one or two they might now order two or three. So that helps. And for the collector I know it sucks paying high dollar for chase figures, but it also increases the value of your collection. If you spend 20 dollars on a figure and the second you get it its worth 5 times that, i dont see what the down side is. Even if its not the one you want i dont see anyone that wouldnt be able to trade or sell if for the one you do want.

    I totally understand peoples issues, but in the grand scheme of things, which is trying to keep motu alive, I think this would only help.

    Also, short packing them prevents the whole spin blade issue. Tons of variants is what killed the 80's line and the 200x line. I am a completist MOC collector but I understand that unless I get lucky or pay a lot I wont have all the line. But I also think its exciting to get a chase figure that justifys, in secondary market value, spending tons of money on these figures. For example...lets say when he-man comes out in October they have a savage/wb variant. I order the current limit of 3 and Iget two regular and one variant. Judging by KG's variant and the he-man chases from the 200x line its gonna be worth 100plus dollars. So for 90 dollars I got three figures worth MOC at least twice what I paid, maybe more. Then in 15 years when my daughter is going to college I can sell it for 10-15 times or more then I paid for it plus inflation, which is based on how the 80's variants are valued. I think thats a good investemtn and a higher APR then most savings accounts, and it looks much better on a shelf.

    could not agree more. getting a variant is like getting a $100 tip on a $20 check. I get more than I expected and if I want, I can buy what I want and spend the rest on some ice cream!
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  18. #118
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    And as far as the comic industry being so bad off....and speculators killing it. I disagree. Yes, during the 90's comics took a huge down turn. But that want becuase of just speculators. The fact everything was a crossover, and the fact that their were 100 different covers for every issue killed it. Thats the companys fault, no one elses. And as a whole, the comic industry is doing very very well right now. Even though they are falling into a lot of those bad habits again. Thats another story altogether.
    Okay, now we're just arguing with made up facts. Exactly WHY did the comic book industry make 10 different covers and release a dozen #1s each month? Because speculators were buying them. not collectors or comic readers, and that is exactly who the companies were aiming at. You basically disprove your point in trying to substantiate it. Please, if you're going to argue something, do some research. The cause of the comic industry's collapse is well covered in many places, and the speculators' market is one of the main causes, just as it was with the baseball card market before that, in virtually every analysis I have ever read; you are, in fact, the first person I've ever seen who states otherwise. And any analysis of the comic book industry as doing very well right now is pure fantasy. It is selling fewer comics than virtually any time in its history, based on numbers I've seen over the past few years.

    Chase figures bring in speculators and tend to drive away regular collectors; action figure history, if one takes the time to look at it, bears this out. Actually looking at what happened to the comic industry and action figure lines like Playmate's Trek figures makes this very clear.
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  19. #119
    Evil Master of Arcades Gamutstreet's Avatar
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    Can I sum up this thread?

    1. No chase variants ramdomly packed.
    2. Yes to repaints, variants.
    3. No to repaints, variants taking the slot of a regular monthly figure.
    4. Each month offer: 1 regular figure, 1 meaningful repaint/variant (limits still to be decided/debated).
    Always remember the dark days of 2004 with no new MOTU in sight...

  20. #120
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    If Mattel followed those four points, all would be right as rain for me!

  21. #121
    Merchandise Collector jmb410s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamutstreet View Post
    Can I sum up this thread?

    1. No chase variants ramdomly packed.
    2. Yes to repaints, variants.
    3. No to repaints, variants taking the slot of a regular monthly figure.
    4. Each month offer: 1 regular figure, 1 meaningful repaint/variant (limits still to be decided/debated).

    Perfect, someone give this to Toyguru or someone at Mattel
    Contact me if you have MOTU Merchandise Items for sale or trade! Please view a sampling of what I am looking for Here:
    http://photobucket.com/albums/v400/j...ase%20Contact/
    http://photobucket.com/albums/v400/j...need%20Europe/

  22. #122
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamutstreet View Post
    Can I sum up this thread?

    1. No chase variants ramdomly packed.
    2. Yes to repaints, variants.
    3. No to repaints, variants taking the slot of a regular monthly figure.
    4. Each month offer: 1 regular figure, 1 meaningful repaint/variant (limits still to be decided/debated).

    Yes, That sums it up well. I have no issue with the above statements. Does this mean I don't want Mattel to crank out any new stuff, No. I hope that Mattel gives us some long awaited figures like Hero, Eldor, The Queen, and ect....Just the thought of these figures being released as chase figures kills me. If the chase figures are just some repaints, then I really don't care.
    Jessie Shuptrine

  23. #123
    The Scare is in the Glow! Scare Glow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamutstreet View Post
    Can I sum up this thread?

    1. No chase variants ramdomly packed.
    2. Yes to repaints, variants.
    3. No to repaints, variants taking the slot of a regular monthly figure.
    4. Each month offer: 1 regular figure, 1 meaningful repaint/variant (limits still to be decided/debated).
    Thatíll do, man . . . thatíll do.

  24. #124
    Heroic Warrior Beeto Bot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamutstreet View Post
    Can I sum up this thread?

    1. No chase variants ramdomly packed.
    2. Yes to repaints, variants.
    3. No to repaints, variants taking the slot of a regular monthly figure.
    4. Each month offer: 1 regular figure, 1 meaningful repaint/variant (limits still to be decided/debated).
    I am very much in agreement here. This seems like a simple issue, if Mattel listens.

  25. #125
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Okay, now we're just arguing with made up facts. Exactly WHY did the comic book industry make 10 different covers and release a dozen #1s each month? Because speculators were buying them. not collectors or comic readers, and that is exactly who the companies were aiming at. You basically disprove your point in trying to substantiate it. Please, if you're going to argue something, do some research. The cause of the comic industry's collapse is well covered in many places, and the speculators' market is one of the main causes, just as it was with the baseball card market before that, in virtually every analysis I have ever read; you are, in fact, the first person I've ever seen who states otherwise. And any analysis of the comic book industry as doing very well right now is pure fantasy. It is selling fewer comics than virtually any time in its history, based on numbers I've seen over the past few years.

    Chase figures bring in speculators and tend to drive away regular collectors; action figure history, if one takes the time to look at it, bears this out. Actually looking at what happened to the comic industry and action figure lines like Playmate's Trek figures makes this very clear.

    I didnt say they didnt contribute. But THEY didnt kill anything alone. For one, they didnt make anything. They just bought what was there. And I am a comic book collector, and I bought them. So saying only these people bought them is not entirly right.

    All I was saying was..yes they contributed to the problems, but they didnt cause them. The comic companys did. And it wasnt just the number ones and the covers that hurt, it was the huge crossovers as well. And those drove people away as much as the rest, if not more. Regular collectors will still buy the comics if they are good, just not pick up the thousand covers. But if they are bad they will stop buying altogether. And from my experience most collectors dislike huge crossovers. Which marvel and DC did ever other week.

    And Comics may be selling less overall, but the revenue for comic companys is up. Thats what I was saying.

    Nothing I said was made up. Its alll objective, "speculation", and opinion. You, or anyone else, cant know why every person did or did not buy comics. So there is no right answer. No "fact".

    And I have looked at action figure history my friend. And again, its all opinion, guess work, and speculation. No one can know everything and whats in everyones mind. I love variants, chases, limited production figures. I am not a speculator. And I know of very few lines that dont use them in some form, and people still collect them.

    My point is that no ONE thing EVER leads to the success or failure of anything. (oh, and that you cant blame the people that buy the products more then the people that make them) And if Mattel does not try to bring in additional support for this line. People other then the die hard fans...then in my opinion, it will not stay in production very long.

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