Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 126 to 137 of 137

Thread: MOTUC and Chase Figures

  1. #126
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,716
    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    All I was saying was..yes they contributed to the problems, but they didnt cause them. The comic companys did. And it wasnt just the number ones and the covers that hurt, it was the huge crossovers as well. And those drove people away as much as the rest, if not more. Regular collectors will still buy the comics if they are good, just not pick up the thousand covers. But if they are bad they will stop buying altogether. And from my experience most collectors dislike huge crossovers. Which marvel and DC did ever other week.
    Here I couldn't agree more. Crossovers pretty well did away with casual readers, as well. You need jumping on places now, which is a big turn off. And, yes, the companies deserve scorn for their part, but it was all part of the same thing: suddenly, the public became aware that comic books could be valuable, and the companies started hitting with multiple covers, #1's, and crosovers full steam to tap into that market. Then, when these folks thinking they were going to finance their retirement with X-Men realized they couldn't sell them because evrybody else had 10 copies too, the whole industry imploded inside of 6 months.

    And Comics may be selling less overall, but the revenue for comic companys is up. Thats what I was saying.
    In perspective, though, that's up from a point where companies were going bankrupt right and left. I'm looking at it from an historical perspective.

    ave looked at action figure history my friend. And again, its all opinion, guess work, and speculation. No one can know everything and whats in everyones mind. I love variants, chases, limited production figures. I am not a speculator. And I know of very few lines that dont use them in some form, and people still collect them.
    There's a difference twixt guesswork and learned analysis. You may not be able to see inot everyone's mind, but you can see overall trends and make conclusions from them, especially when similar events have occurred in other hobbies following the same pattern. The conclusions I speak of came from people who have been following the industry for a long time; it wasn't just guesswork.

    And chase figures have one purpose, and always have: to bring folks into the store so that, when they don't find that figure, they may pick something else up. Some people like that, true, not for speculation, but it also backfires majorly when it's done like the 1701 figures from Trek. It almost by definition means some collectors can't have a complete set, and that's a turn off for a lot of people. There's an ingrained "gotta catch 'em all!" mentality in the community; many just get what they like, but there's a significant number who'll skip the line if they know they can't "collect the whole series." And those folks are going to be more likely to buy more over the long haul.

    t is that no ONE thing EVER leads to the success or failure of anything. (oh, and that you cant blame the people that buy the products more then the people that make them) And if Mattel does not try to bring in additional support for this line. People other then the die hard fans...then in my opinion, it will not stay in production very long.
    Again, you've kind of missed my point by refusing to separate the speculator market and the actual collectors'market (and not making that distinction is what happened back with the 1701 debacle). I've stated specifically that the line needs to appeal to general collectors, the same exact people who buy Marvel Legends or DCUC without even knowing who the characters are. On that note, we've been in agreement all along. It's the specific strategies that aim at folks buying the figure because it is "worth something" that need to be avoided, as that market leaves without warning (again, comics and cards show us this).

    What Mattel is doing now is the right route to bring in a steady, reliable consumer base. THey are making the figures to appeal to old time MOTU fans as far as the style goes, but they are making them in the popular ML/DCUC style of increased articulation, using multiple heads on at leat one figure, having the top sculptors in the business designing the figures, and promoting them to the target audience. And that audience is action figure collectors, as a whole, the folks who have supported ML and McFarlane for years. THey are doing things to basically appeal to everyone they are targeting; the worst thing they could do now is start putting in strategies that could drive steady customers away by randomly sending them somethin they didn't order. The collectors at the con, a cross section of that aforementioned market, made it very clear what they thought of that idea at the panel, and Mattel took it to heart. They're actually listening to collectors, not dealers, scalpers and ebayers, and I'd like to see that continue.

    That's my case, and I rest it.
    "I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

  2. #127
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    36,473
    scott's correct. It was mostly speculation that killed comics during the collector's bubble of the late 80s / early 90s.
    Most people bought multiple copies predicting a return years later.
    There was even a rule of thumb back then: "Buy one to read; one to save"

    Companies made variants and cross-overs, etc, because people bought them.
    Not the other way around.
    It's a business. If people were buying, they were making them.
    You can't fault comic companies for taking advantage of what seemed like a new golden age of comics. No one then realized that speculation fueled a bubble that was doomed to collapse on itself.
    When people tried to sell their comics a few years later, and people were discovering there was no return on their investment, comics dried up... it went back to a state close to what it was in the mid-70s, and then got even worse because of the dawn of the digital age that has hurt all forms of published reading over the past decade.

    But that was a different beast.
    No one is walking around talking about how MOTUC is an investment.
    No retro collectors are coming out of the woodwork to scoop up MOTUC because they feel it'll be as valuable as the original MOTU.
    The biggest toy collector's boom was in the late 90s / early 00s with the POTF2 line.
    The toy market has definitely come down since then.

    MOTUC seems destined to succeed because of genuine interest.
    Surely there will always be some sort of speculation with some folks and their purchases.
    But most of us got the speculation out of our system with the 2002 line.

  3. #128
    Heroic Warrior He-bro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,002
    Quote Originally Posted by jmb410s View Post
    Mattel should do NO Random chase Variants for the same reasons already stated.

    1. people looking for a figure not getting the one they want.
    2. no more money in Mattels pocket-just forces those of us that collect that stuff to go to the secondary market and have our wallets thinned

    If Mattel has to do variants ( which they always do ) it should go like this:

    1: A variant is NEVER the new figure for the month
    2: New Figure - you can order 3
    3: Variant figure ordered at the same time limited to 1


    that way mattel can make more money by getting those that want one to buy another figure of the same character. And it is more limited and limited to 1 to prevent scalping.
    YES!

    Also if a figure sells out quick, sell it again in 2 months along with the new figure of the month. (He-Man may have to be sold more then just once, especially if you want new collectors to join in)

  4. #129
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ludington, MI USA
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Here I couldn't agree more. Crossovers pretty well did away with casual readers, as well. You need jumping on places now, which is a big turn off. And, yes, the companies deserve scorn for their part, but it was all part of the same thing: suddenly, the public became aware that comic books could be valuable, and the companies started hitting with multiple covers, #1's, and crosovers full steam to tap into that market. Then, when these folks thinking they were going to finance their retirement with X-Men realized they couldn't sell them because evrybody else had 10 copies too, the whole industry imploded inside of 6 months.



    In perspective, though, that's up from a point where companies were going bankrupt right and left. I'm looking at it from an historical perspective.



    There's a difference twixt guesswork and learned analysis. You may not be able to see inot everyone's mind, but you can see overall trends and make conclusions from them, especially when similar events have occurred in other hobbies following the same pattern. The conclusions I speak of came from people who have been following the industry for a long time; it wasn't just guesswork.

    And chase figures have one purpose, and always have: to bring folks into the store so that, when they don't find that figure, they may pick something else up. Some people like that, true, not for speculation, but it also backfires majorly when it's done like the 1701 figures from Trek. It almost by definition means some collectors can't have a complete set, and that's a turn off for a lot of people. There's an ingrained "gotta catch 'em all!" mentality in the community; many just get what they like, but there's a significant number who'll skip the line if they know they can't "collect the whole series." And those folks are going to be more likely to buy more over the long haul.



    Again, you've kind of missed my point by refusing to separate the speculator market and the actual collectors'market (and not making that distinction is what happened back with the 1701 debacle). I've stated specifically that the line needs to appeal to general collectors, the same exact people who buy Marvel Legends or DCUC without even knowing who the characters are. On that note, we've been in agreement all along. It's the specific strategies that aim at folks buying the figure because it is "worth something" that need to be avoided, as that market leaves without warning (again, comics and cards show us this).

    What Mattel is doing now is the right route to bring in a steady, reliable consumer base. THey are making the figures to appeal to old time MOTU fans as far as the style goes, but they are making them in the popular ML/DCUC style of increased articulation, using multiple heads on at leat one figure, having the top sculptors in the business designing the figures, and promoting them to the target audience. And that audience is action figure collectors, as a whole, the folks who have supported ML and McFarlane for years. THey are doing things to basically appeal to everyone they are targeting; the worst thing they could do now is start putting in strategies that could drive steady customers away by randomly sending them somethin they didn't order. The collectors at the con, a cross section of that aforementioned market, made it very clear what they thought of that idea at the panel, and Mattel took it to heart. They're actually listening to collectors, not dealers, scalpers and ebayers, and I'd like to see that continue.

    That's my case, and I rest it.
    It looks like we are arguing against each other for the same point. We just have a bit of a differnt view. I agree that thus far Mattel is doing the right thing. And I am including the variants they did with KG. I know there are those that want everything, or nothing. But I also know that there are a lot of comlpetist, as I am, and MOC collectors, as I am, that understand that I may not get everything. But I have an equal chance as everyone else. And I find that part exciting. I dont have to live in Italy to get a specific figure, or anything like that. Yes variants are limited, but the way they are now everyone everywhere has the same chance.

    Val,

    I see your point as well. And since you are in the industry I am sure you have a better understanding then I do. I know that comic companys will sell if there is a market. But they had to know that by doing 10 variants of some issues that things could get bad. And they ignored it. Its short sightedness and I can fault them to an extent. But I cant say I would have done it any different. However, a lot of those same issues from 10-15yrs ago are being employed again right now. And have been for a few years now. Just a bit smarter. A lot of people saw what happened coming and if the companys didnt thats as much their fault as anyones.

  5. #130
    Masta of da Fryin' Pan PanMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by He-bro View Post
    YES!

    Also if a figure sells out quick, sell it again in 2 months along with the new figure of the month. (He-Man may have to be sold more then just once, especially if you want new collectors to join in)
    This is vital. Let's say they make 10,000 He-Man, and they all sell out in a month. If they don't make more, who is going to want to collect a series without having He-Man? Nobody. So effectively the only people that would buy the line after He-Man sells out are the ones that got He-Man when he was available. Therefore, the collector base is 10,000 people, and no more. Over time this number will dwindle, as figures are made that they do not like, and maybe their interest will drop.

    So by not making more of a figure that sells out, you are effectively limiting your consumer base. I know it may not be as cut and dry as how I laid it out just now, but this trend will occur to some degree if figures are not made availabe again after they sell out. I hope Mattel realizes this.
    My name is Pan . . . and I am the Man.

  6. #131
    Heroic Master of Music baileyrecords's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grove City, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by PanMan View Post
    This is vital. Let's say they make 10,000 He-Man, and they all sell out in a month. If they don't make more, who is going to want to collect a series without having He-Man? Nobody. So effectively the only people that would buy the line after He-Man sells out are the ones that got He-Man when he was available. Therefore, the collector base is 10,000 people, and no more. Over time this number will dwindle, as figures are made that they do not like, and maybe their interest will drop.

    So by not making more of a figure that sells out, you are effectively limiting your consumer base. I know it may not be as cut and dry as how I laid it out just now, but this trend will occur to some degree if figures are not made availabe again after they sell out. I hope Mattel realizes this.
    Based on KG's popularity and selling out - it won't take a month for He-Man to sell out!

    Hopefully they'll make a second run of all figures that sell out in "X" amount of time - re-offering them at a later date to eliminate the situation you described. Then again, all toys have a set production run... and that's why you re-invent the wheel with various incarnations of figures... Thunder Punch, Snake Armor, Ice Armor, Battle Armor, etc.
    I am Stratos, Heroic Master of Music! and proud member of the Ohio Masters

    Creator of Kaiju Kaos.

  7. #132
    Masta of da Fryin' Pan PanMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,120
    Quote Originally Posted by baileyrecords View Post
    Based on KG's popularity and selling out - it won't take a month for He-Man to sell out!

    Hopefully they'll make a second run of all figures that sell out in "X" amount of time - re-offering them at a later date to eliminate the situation you described. Then again, all toys have a set production run... and that's why you re-invent the wheel with various incarnations of figures... Thunder Punch, Snake Armor, Ice Armor, Battle Armor, etc.
    I think we agree, but just to clarify: All I'm saying is that if a figure sells out fast, they should make more of him so that the demand is satisfied. Conversely, if a figure takes a year to finally sell out, then they should not make more of that figure.
    My name is Pan . . . and I am the Man.

  8. #133
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,716
    Didn't Toy Guru already say that they would go back into production if sales warranted it? If He-Man sells out in a week or two, I'd say chances are good we'd see more. And they never said that anything would be taken down from the site after that month, just that the new figure would appear on the 15th. I don't see any reason why He-Man can't stay there until the new stock arrives with a note "on order" or some such phrase to let folks know more are coming.

    And, frankly, I could see a regular re-release program, not unlike what they did back in the 80's to keep popular figures available, much as described in the previous posts. He-Man and Skeletor, Man-at-Arms, Teela, the main characters that have consistent sell appeal. You can do it here without "Smash Blading," as there are no cases to over-stuff with the big two.
    "I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

  9. #134
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ludington, MI USA
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Didn't Toy Guru already say that they would go back into production if sales warranted it? If He-Man sells out in a week or two, I'd say chances are good we'd see more. And they never said that anything would be taken down from the site after that month, just that the new figure would appear on the 15th. I don't see any reason why He-Man can't stay there until the new stock arrives with a note "on order" or some such phrase to let folks know more are coming.

    And, frankly, I could see a regular re-release program, not unlike what they did back in the 80's to keep popular figures available, much as described in the previous posts. He-Man and Skeletor, Man-at-Arms, Teela, the main characters that have consistent sell appeal. You can do it here without "Smash Blading," as there are no cases to over-stuff with the big two.
    He did in fact say that. But the website says...while supplies last. And they have not come out and countered the sentament that they will make more if it sells out, but I am getting a feeling that might be the case. And Mattel has also stated that NOTHING is set in stone and could change in a second. Which kinda bothers me and gets me excited at the same time. Means they could tweek it after listening to fans, or they could change something just because some guy at Mattel thinks its a good idea. There are both good and bad things, but in my experience if there are no rules or things like that, then things get hectic and chaotic, kinda like how they sold KG at the Mattel booth at sdcc

    That left a bad taste in my mouth, having been told that there would be no limit, within reason, and getting there and the limit is 2 on minute 5 the nest then 3. Just depends on when you got to the counter on how many you could buy. And I dont see that as fair, or as giving everyone a fair and equal chance. Thats what I think they should do. What ever limit they set for a particular figure they need to stick to it. I can understand changing the limit for a specific figure, or at fan request, but not changing it while the figure is still on-sale as it doenst seem fair.

    Anyway, I have an issue with changes and being told its one way and happend another, especially when we are not told anything. Im not a mushroom, i dont like to be kept in the dark and feed bullhocky.

  10. #135
    Evil Villain!!! adam03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Despondos
    Posts
    4,360
    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    I am putting all other people that buy toys, for whatever reason, in the same group. Call them what you want, but I am talking about people that are not die hard motu fans. That includes gen toy collectors, speculators, kids, parents, anyone. This line needs to attrack all of those people to be succuessfull. Even the speculators as you defined them. There might be people that see the 4H desings and buy becuase of that. But those poeple are gonna be even more limited this time around then the 200x line, as this line has less visability. But most people that are just collectors, for whatever reason, will buy into a line if it is valuable and has the rare figures. And the mystique of the rare figures increases if its a random chance. I dont care why someone buys this line, just that they do. And despite Mattels current opinion, I dont think deep down they care either, as long as the line does well. So anything that could potentially bring in outside fans is a good thing to me. Even if it alianates some of the hard core fans. As I have said before, us die hard motu fans have proven we alone cant keep a line going.

    Like it or not, I would trade one die hard motu fan for 10 speculators that buy into the line. Nothing against us, or you, or anyone else. But MOTU needs new blood to survive. I wish we didnt need those folks to have a succesful line. I wish the die hard fans were a large enough group that it wouldnt matter. But we/it are not. And on top of that, we as a group have so many different things we want that no line, comic, movie or anything else will make us all (maybe not even a majority) happy.
    You are right about 1 thing, us MOTU fans can`t keep a line alive that was developed for retail, this line was developed for us MOTU fans and we can keep it alive as the only numbers Mattel are counting on are the collectors, that`s why it`s an exclusive collectors line. Theres no need at all for high priced figures, just give us our 1 release a month and we`ll be happy. If I have to go to ebay to find a certain month`s release, I`ll quit collecting the line.

  11. #136
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ludington, MI USA
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by adam03 View Post
    You are right about 1 thing, us MOTU fans can`t keep a line alive that was developed for retail, this line was developed for us MOTU fans and we can keep it alive as the only numbers Mattel are counting on are the collectors, that`s why it`s an exclusive collectors line. Theres no need at all for high priced figures, just give us our 1 release a month and we`ll be happy. If I have to go to ebay to find a certain month`s release, I`ll quit collecting the line.
    But that could still happen. Plus this line is already starting out at 2 to 2.5 times what the 200x line did. And yes this line is geared toward us motu collectors, but that doesnt mean we can keep it alive. There are already a small percentage of us that are not gonna buy this line. Just becuase it is geared toward us, doesnt mean its gonna succede. And even if every single motu fan bought this line that might not be enough. We have no real idea of the target here, or how many of each figure will be produced. Mattel is a publicly traded company, a big one that wont keep the line going if it doesnt sell well like NECA did.

    And remember, the stactions were an online only collector geared line. Yes they were not action figures. I get that. Thats why I wasnt that big of a fan. But its the same market. And if your a "die-hard" fan you support the propertry in any form. And that line didnt do amazing. In fact the last couple of waves, by all inidcations, didnt sell very well. I know they are not the same. And from what I can see the support for this line is bigger and better then the support for the stactions. However, IMO, if this line doesnt bring in the casual fan, however they can do it, it may not meet expectations.

    I would like to know in advance what the expectations are and what the production numbers will be. That would help in this discussion. But as of now we do not know those numbers and I am speculating, along with everyone else. I hope i am wrong, truely. I hope the MOTU fans make me eat my words. I am not always right, actually most times it takes alot of wrong answers to get to the right one. This is just my 2 cents, based on my experiences and thoughts.

  12. #137
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    6,154
    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    And, frankly, I could see a regular re-release program, not unlike what they did back in the 80's to keep popular figures available, much as described in the previous posts. He-Man and Skeletor, Man-at-Arms, Teela, the main characters that have consistent sell appeal. You can do it here without "Smash Blading," as there are no cases to over-stuff with the big two.
    That's absolutely what they should do.

    I mean, clearly I don't know the logistics about what's a minimum quantity for a re-order of a particular figure, but however Mattel can safely keep a minimum stock of the core cast available, I think they absolutely should!

    As I and several others have said, there'll no doubt be fans out there who won't want to pay full shipping costs for a single figure, but if they can scoop up He-Man and Skeletor with a few other faves in one purchase they definitely would.

    I don't want Mattel choking on stock of unsold figures, but hopefully they can strike the right balance between brisk sales and a healthy character assortment available from month to month.

    If Mattel only wants to sell-through each monthly character to make room for the next one, I suppose I can understand that, but in that case they are pretty much limiting their purchase base to the hardcore fans only, those who have been following the process from the getgo.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •