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Thread: RUMOR: Comprehensive script Review, the real dirt on this script

  1. #76
    kind of a big deal VaderLives's Avatar
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    I don't have time to type out a big reaction, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Also, the 2002 series as an outline basically has everything you need to make a good movie.
    THAT I totally agree with!
    Continuing the story from where the new cartoon left off.
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  2. #77
    Heroic Warrior joeyd's Avatar
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    I completely agree on the analysis of the script.

    I really did not like the way that Skeletor was to be transformed.

    Part of the mythos of he-man I really like was all these charaters are muscular even skeletor who has a skull face.

    I want him to be big and ripped,blue with a skull face.

    Like I want he-man to be big,ripped and have that bronzed tan.

    In my opinion if you aren't going to make the characters look the way they are supposed to THEN IT IS NOT HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE. It is a movie imitating that.


    And yes there were some cool points in the scroipt,but it still need alot of work.

  3. #78
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Has anyone read the major movie news websites today? It seems that the Voltron movie is finally moving forward. I don't care much for Voltron, so I don't care if the script bares no resemblance to the cartoons. The reason I like this news is because I think this could bode well for He-Man.

    Also, TheVileOne, is that true what Tallstar said? That at one point Skeletor becomes beefy and blue? And please, if you answer, no spoilers. Just a simple yes or no.

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyd View Post
    I completely agree on the analysis of the script.

    I really did not like the way that Skeletor was to be transformed.

    Part of the mythos of he-man I really like was all these charaters are muscular even skeletor who has a skull face.

    I want him to be big and ripped,blue with a skull face.

    Like I want he-man to be big,ripped and have that bronzed tan.

    In my opinion if you aren't going to make the characters look the way they are supposed to THEN IT IS NOT HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE. It is a movie imitating that.


    And yes there were some cool points in the scroipt,but it still need alot of work.
    So your one of those fans who is not willing to see any changes? Boy, are you gonna be disappointed. Even if they go for an entirely different script that's much more true to He-Man, you will be disappointed.
    Last edited by Krueger; August 18, 2008 at 06:22pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. #79
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    I think that's a somewhat liberal interpretation on Ted's part, though I'd have to see what he said exactly.

    At the end it implies that Skeletor uses the sword of darkness to take out the souls of dark soldiers to power him up, but it also says it's the only power keeping him together and its his last gasp of strength. It reads as though Skeletor would be bigger and demonic, but only for a short while and he's barely keeping himself together.
    Last edited by TheVileOne; August 18, 2008 at 08:08pm.
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  5. #80
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    I think that's a somewhat liberal interpretation on Ted's part, though I'd have to see what he said exactly.

    At the end it implies that Skeletor uses the sword of darkness to take out the souls of dark soldiers to power him up, but it also says it's the only power keeping him together and its his last gasp of strength. It reads Skeletor would be bigger and demonic, but only for a short while and he's barely keeping himself together.
    Thanks for clearing that up.

  6. #81
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Also, the 2002 series as an outline basically has everything you need to make a good movie.
    Have to disagree with the Vile One here- maybe that gets into the area of personal preference? I thought the 2002 series was... well- generally it just seemed very rushed and thrown together, with a minimal amount of thought put into it at best (but there are many who love the 2002 series/so respectfully, to each their own- all a matter of opinion).

    If it didn't work as a cartoon- why would it work as a major live-action film? It was canceled for a reason... opinions aside, and I know that sounds harsh, but- generally, people just weren't warming to it. To me, it did seem as if things were beginning to turn around toward the very end of the series, but by that point- it was too late.

    I do tend to agree though with a lot of what the Vile One has posted here. Also, things appear FAR too closely aligned with Lord of the Rings. Of course, it's impossible to really be fair about the script when only the Vile One and a few others have had access to it. I mean, one person could read something and think it's the best thing under the sun, and then the next person afterward could read it and want to throw it in the garbage. It is troubling though that more of the recent reviews of this script have been negative.

    MOTU is such a hard beast to tackle as a film. I think the film definitely needs to remain true to the source material. As others have mentioned though- which source do you draw from? The mini-comics, animated versions, etc... they are all so different (Baena's point). As with anything, there is no way to please everyone with whatever route is taken. It's going to be difficult to pull off, but somehow- the best bits and pieces of the source material needs to be pulled together from the various different incarnations (mini-comics, animation, toys, etc). Mix those elements together in a melting pot, in just the right way, so as to appeal to the broadest amount of people and hopefully, at the same time, perform well at the box office also. Something that is obviously much easier said than done.

    Visually, I hope we get something on the same level as David Lynch's Dune or Ridley Scott's Alien (Blade Runner was amazing also). Not that I want the MOTU film to be a copy of those, but I would like for it to be as visually stunning as those films were. I think Filmation had MOTU down pat as far as the visuals go.

    Lastly, in regard to these script reviews, I wanted to briefly post a few thoughts about elements that I LIKE (concerning three of the most important elements- He-Man, Skeletor, and Castle Grayskull):

    -As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like that Skeletor is deteriorating/dying from the sword's dark power, dooming him no matter what. In this way, he can still do horrible things as a villain, but we would also be torn as an audience. We want to feel sorry for him, because this horrible thing is happening to his body, but at the same time... he did it to himself. Kind of a Darth Vader karma thing happening. I just hope it comes across well and doesn't seem hackneyed. (I'd actually like it if we don't ever see this "dark power"- almost as if it's more of a curse/prophecy scenario).

    -Adam gradually becoming He-Man over time/throughout the course of the film. I would like for there still to remain at least one defining moment, as in the 1987 film, where he holds the sword up and shouts, "I have the power." It might actually work rather well during a climactic scene near the end of the film (it sounds like this is what happens, when both swords are brought together).

    -Castle Grayskull- The characters have to really do some work to get there, and it still seems like a mysterious, remote, and foreboding stronghold.


    Wow... once again- sorry for the length. Lol- I think this ended up being longer than my earlier post. Forgive me Org...
    Last edited by River; August 18, 2008 at 07:57pm. Reason: shorten length

  7. #82
    Evil Chibi Warrior super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    The most disappointing aspect to the current draft are the standard cliches that seem to be thrown in.

    King Randor dying so early to cause a revenge plot. See now if I were Skeletor, I'd like to make sure my half brother could see everything I would do. Far worse than death. However its a standard now, to kill a relation. Hell, Eragon had it his mentor which leads to Zodak being killed off.

    Killing close ones is not the only way to inspire motivation in people.

    The MYP Skeletor was perfect for me. He as on a par with He-Man, especially on a physical level. Fighting with his two swords, and using underhanded tactics just to win or at least escape. He's not stupid, and definiely not whiny. The scene where Marzo blasts him with his amulet, and Skeletor is unphased and levitating, before turning around, not speaking and just snatching Marzo's power source was a great moment.

    Having Fisto betray and then see the errors of his ways is yet another cliche.

    I understand that there is nothing too original out in the world now, that ideas are recycled, but there are better ways to do it. The idea of Kronis betraying Man at Arms was a nice side idea for the character, as it's a different take for him.

    What is Skeletor's motivation? Surely Grayskull is what would drive him, to gain power, to find a way to stop being Hordak's puppet. Not kill your lackey, they could be useful later.

    As for He-Man... again I like how the MYP Adam was so reluctant to have the power. He didn't believe it, he didn't want the responsibility. A little whiny perhaps, but he grew as a character.

    However everyoneis going to have a different idea of how these two main characters should act, and will never be totally satisfied with the outcome.

  8. #83
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super-munkyboy View Post
    The most disappointing aspect to the current draft are the standard cliches that seem to be thrown in.

    King Randor dying so early to cause a revenge plot. See now if I were Skeletor, I'd like to make sure my half brother could see everything I would do. Far worse than death. However its a standard now, to kill a relation. Hell, Eragon had it his mentor which leads to Zodak being killed off.

    Killing close ones is not the only way to inspire motivation in people.

    The MYP Skeletor was perfect for me. He as on a par with He-Man, especially on a physical level. Fighting with his two swords, and using underhanded tactics just to win or at least escape. He's not stupid, and definiely not whiny. The scene where Marzo blasts him with his amulet, and Skeletor is unphased and levitating, before turning around, not speaking and just snatching Marzo's power source was a great moment.

    Having Fisto betray and then see the errors of his ways is yet another cliche.

    I understand that there is nothing too original out in the world now, that ideas are recycled, but there are better ways to do it. The idea of Kronis betraying Man at Arms was a nice side idea for the character, as it's a different take for him.

    What is Skeletor's motivation? Surely Grayskull is what would drive him, to gain power, to find a way to stop being Hordak's puppet. Not kill your lackey, they could be useful later.

    As for He-Man... again I like how the MYP Adam was so reluctant to have the power. He didn't believe it, he didn't want the responsibility. A little whiny perhaps, but he grew as a character.

    However everyoneis going to have a different idea of how these two main characters should act, and will never be totally satisfied with the outcome.
    Well, you know the rules. There are only eight stories in the world (apparently, although I've been trying hard to create another one, but no luck so far), which are just rehashed over and over again. I learnt about them in the creative writing module I did at university. They are the stories of:

    Achilles
    Candide
    Cinderella
    Circe
    Faust
    Orpheus
    Romeo and Juliet
    Tristan

    If you read up on each one, you'll see that it’s the truth. Every film or book is taken from one or more of those stories.

    Let's play a game. By the sounds of the script which one do you think Justin Marks' He-Man is?

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it’s very hard now days to come up with something strikingly original. I admit, some things do sound cliché, but that's okay with me. It’s He-Man, not Shakespeare.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by River View Post
    Have to disagree with the Vile One here- maybe that gets into the area of personal preference? I thought the 2002 series was... well- generally it just seemed very rushed and thrown together, with a minimal amount of thought put into it at best (but there are many who love the 2002 series/so respectfully, to each their own- all a matter of opinion).
    Could you be more specific?

    If it didn't work as a cartoon- why would it work as a major live-action film? It was canceled for a reason... opinions aside, and I know that sounds harsh, but- generally, people just weren't warming to it. To me, it did seem as if things were beginning to turn around toward the very end of the series, but by that point- it was too late.
    Well when I say outline, that means a vague sort of blueprint. That doesn't mean follow it to the letter. And as an outline, it does basically work. It's totally sound for the most part. A movie, live action especially and with a PG-13 level rating lets you take it further. Like more people can die (not necessarily the best characters though )

    I do tend to agree though with a lot of what the Vile One has posted here. Also, things appear FAR too closely aligned with Lord of the Rings. Of course, it's impossible to really be fair about the script when only the Vile One and a few others have had access to it. I mean, one person could read something and think it's the best thing under the sun, and then the next person afterward could read it and want to throw it in the garbage. It is troubling though that more of the recent reviews of this script have been negative.
    Well again this is why I posted this. Because of what El Mayimbe wrote. And after that Voltron script. The Voltron script that is no apparently picking up steam at the factory known as 20th Century Fox. I mean did you read the synopsis from Variety on Voltron? That's from the script that Marks wrote.

    MOTU is such a hard beast to tackle as a film. I think the film definitely needs to remain true to the source material. As others have mentioned though- which source do you draw from? The mini-comics, animated versions, etc... they are all so different (Baena's point). As with anything, there is no way to please everyone with whatever route is taken. It's going to be difficult to pull off, but somehow- the best bits and pieces of the source material needs to be pulled together from the various different incarnations (mini-comics, animation, toys, etc). Mix those elements together in a melting pot, in just the right way, so as to appeal to the broadest amount of people and hopefully, at the same time, perform well at the box office also. Something that is obviously much easier said than done.
    If they do this Eragon-lite v.2.0 script, I don't think it will appeal to much anyone.

    -As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like that Skeletor is deteriorating/dying from the sword's dark power, dooming him no matter what. In this way, he can still do horrible things as a villain, but we would also be torn as an audience. We want to feel sorry for him, because this horrible thing is happening to his body, but at the same time... he did it to himself. Kind of a Darth Vader karma thing happening. I just hope it comes across well and doesn't seem hackneyed. (I'd actually like it if we don't ever see this "dark power"- almost as if it's more of a curse/prophecy scenario).
    Eh, you don't really feel sorry for him. Skeletor's more than pathetic in this script. He's not like Darth Vader who never really comes off as weak even though he's crippled and an invalid.

    -Adam gradually becoming He-Man over time/throughout the course of the film. I would like for there still to remain at least one defining moment, as in the 1987 film, where he holds the sword up and shouts, "I have the power." It might actually work rather well during a climactic scene near the end of the film (it sounds like this is what happens, when both swords are brought together).
    He actually just holds the sword and reads the inscription of those words on the ground. That is in THIS particular draft of the script .

    -Castle Grayskull- The characters have to really do some work to get there, and it still seems like a mysterious, remote, and foreboding stronghold.
    Kinda-ish. But it's not very compelling in its current form. Grayskull's more like the version from the MYP series actually .
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  10. #85
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    It’s He-Man, not Shakespeare.
    Or is it? Skeletor seemed to enjoy quoting lines from Richard III in the '87 film... !!!

    Another quick idea for Skeletor- why does he need an origin in the film? Skeletor could just enter as... Skeletor, in all of his skull-faced, muscle bound glory (and maybe that would actually be scarier- because we don't know how he got that way).

  11. #86
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    Damn, this is one BAD script. The reason LOTR worked was because New Line got people who LOVED Tolkien and understood the books, even if Jackson did change some things, or occasionally need people like Christopher Lee to wave the books under his nose (Arwen at Helm's Deep, anyone?)

    I'd say half the people here could write a better MOTU script.

  12. #87
    Mistress of the Whip! Divia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Well, you know the rules. There are only eight stories in the world (apparently, although I've been trying hard to create another one, but no luck so far), which are just rehashed over and over again. I learnt about them in the creative writing module I did at university. They are the stories of:

    Achilles
    Candide
    Cinderella
    Circe
    Faust
    Orpheus
    Romeo and Juliet
    Tristan

    If you read up on each one, you'll see that it’s the truth. Every film or book is taken from one or more of those stories.

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it’s very hard now days to come up with something strikingly original. I admit, some things do sound cliché, but that's okay with me. It’s He-Man, not Shakespeare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Well, you know the rules. There are only eight stories in the world (apparently, although I've been trying hard to create another one, but no luck so far), which are just rehashed over and over again. I learnt about them in the creative writing module I did at university. They are the stories of:

    Achilles
    Candide
    Cinderella
    Circe
    Faust
    Orpheus
    Romeo and Juliet
    Tristan

    If you read up on each one, you'll see that it’s the truth. Every film or book is taken from one or more of those stories.

    Let's play a game. By the sounds of the script which one do you think Justin Marks' He-Man is?

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it’s very hard now days to come up with something strikingly original. I admit, some things do sound cliché, but that's okay with me. It’s He-Man, not Shakespeare.
    By your definition, it could very well be Shakespeare.
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  14. #89
    Heroic Warrior joeyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Has anyone read the major movie news websites today? It seems that the Voltron movie is finally moving forward. I don't care much for Voltron, so I don't care if the script bares no resemblance to the cartoons. The reason I like this news is because I think this could bode well for He-Man.

    Also, TheVileOne, is that true what Tallstar said? That at one point Skeletor becomes beefy and blue? And please, if you answer, no spoilers. Just a simple yes or no.



    So your one of those fans who is not willing to see any changes? Boy, are you gonna be disappointed. Even if they go for an entirely different script that's much more true to He-Man, you will be disappointed.



    Krueger,

    No I am not one of those fans who would be unhappy if they made any changes.

    I know as well as anyone knows that most of the time when films go to the big screen,they get slight changes and in some cases completely.

    I don't want the last part to happen to he-man. Would you like to see another movie like from 1987? I wouldn't,if that's your bag cool,but it's not mine as a he-man fan.


    Everyone has and opinion and if you don't like mine that's cool,that's why they call it an opinion.

    Plus if you don't take all opinons into consideration then wouldn't this movie be just what a few people want and not the whole?

  15. #90
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    *Krueger, I didn't mean that Shakespeare comment in a sarcastic way- just trying to lighten the topic/thread up a bit- lol, just thought I’d clarify-*

    For Vile One:

    Well, that stinks if Adam simply reads an inscription... disappointing to hear about Castle Grayskull's treatment as well.

    I never saw Eragon (didn't look appealing to me)- but if this script envisions something similar for MOTU... I hope there are some major changes (the script will probably be rewritten or revised many times anyway, as others have pointed out- it's still very early).

    On Skeletor, I agree as well. Part of me does like the idea of having him as a physically ailing villain- if handled correctly; I think that could be interesting. If Skeletor is as pathetic and weak as you have suggested however- then I would rather see some other treatment be applied to his character (such as what I mentioned above- without worrying about an origin- it didn't seem to hamper the Filmation series or the '87 film).

    I understand why you posted this as well- that first El Mayimbe review was rather lacking and poorly written. I would use the word "review" loosely. Your review, and another one that I read recently, they do seem more objectionable. At the same time though, it's still really hard for the rest of us to be truly objectionable... all we have are basically three script reviews to go by. I doubt that I'll ever see the script anytime soon- so I'm just trying to lean on the side of caution and not be overly critical.

    A few brief comments about the 2002 series (I don’t want to start any kind of 2002 VS. argument or get the thread off topic- so will keep this brief):

    If you’re talking in broad terms about how the first season of the 2002 series dealt with Skeletor, and the second season dealt with King Hiss, and a third season would’ve dealt with Hordak: Yes, I can envision a trilogy of films in which each film is centered around one of these primary villains.

    Beyond that though- I really do think that gets into personal preference. In general, it sounds like you enjoy the 2002 series. But with a PG-13 rating, one could probably take the basic blueprint from Filmation and make a good movie as well... or the setup from the early mini-comics, or New Adventures, etc... all a matter of opinion.

    And I think I did come down on the 2002 series too harshly and was overly critical with my own opinion in regard to it... I referred to it as “rushed” a bit flippantly- and a lot of artists and writers undoubtedly worked hard on that series. You asked for a few specifics though as to why I felt the show seemed rushed. So here are some basic things which I felt could’ve been handled in much more effective ways (sticking strictly to the main storyline elements):

    -The heroes were designated as the “Masters of the Universe” faction.

    -The universe was taken out of MOTU... to the detriment of the stories perhaps?

    -The revenge setup between Randor and Skeletor- I felt that the way it was handled was very unimaginative (yet another villain who gets the ol’ acid in the face origin... you disfigured me, so I’m gonna get ya!). Is that really the best setup for Skeletor- or could something more original and interesting happen?

    -The “They’re actually related” plot device.

    -A tendency to focus more on the technological aspects, while downplaying the magical.
    Last edited by River; August 18, 2008 at 11:58pm.

  16. #91
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    The relation plot device comes from the mini-comics.

    Look, Filmation is Filmation. But I mean, what can you really take from that? All the 2002 series did was basically take that series and expand on it including things that were canon and done in the mini-comics as well. And also working in toy characters who were never even in the Filmation show. I mean to take those characters and give them rational story arcs was a good thing for fans.

    My problem with Filmation is that Skeletor became less threatening in that series as it continued along as well.

    Also River, according to this script, the Keldor/Randor relationship is kept. And Keldor's not taking revenge for disfiguration but because of his claim to the throne. In the 2002 series it was both. Keldor/Skeletor believes it is his right to rule Eternia. But besides that, his disfigurement and further corruption by Hordak made him a psycho-path. Now it's not really a versus thing but more like how Skeletor can be still be an evil villain AND a compelling character. The guidelines are there.
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  17. #92
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    With the relation element that I mentioned- yes, I understand that the idea of Keldor being Randor's brother originated in the mini-comics.

    I was referring to (IMHO) the over use of it in the 2002 series, to the point where it got repetitive with various characters (Teela & Fisto, Evil Lyn & Faceless One, Randor & Keldor, Fisto & Man-at-Arms, Fisto & Sorceress linked romantically).

    In regard to the 2002 series, *giving you a hug* I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one and call a truce instead of going back and forth about it. *another hug* I think we're both strong-willed... lol.

    Thanks for sharing the details about the script by the way-
    Last edited by River; August 19, 2008 at 10:16am.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Well, you know the rules. There are only eight stories in the world (apparently, although I've been trying hard to create another one, but no luck so far), which are just rehashed over and over again. I learnt about them in the creative writing module I did at university. They are the stories of:

    Achilles
    Candide
    Cinderella
    Circe
    Faust
    Orpheus
    Romeo and Juliet
    Tristan

    If you read up on each one, you'll see that it’s the truth. Every film or book is taken from one or more of those stories.

    Let's play a game. By the sounds of the script which one do you think Justin Marks' He-Man is?

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it’s very hard now days to come up with something strikingly original. I admit, some things do sound cliché, but that's okay with me. It’s He-Man, not Shakespeare.
    Reducing every story to some combination of one of those is about as meaningful as using Schenkerian analysis to reduce every piece of music to a single note. Sure, Beethoven's 5th and Rock Me Sexy Jesus might both come out to c (or whatever the actual note is) but that doesn't mean anything.

    The problem is, essentially, that like most things, the above analyses were developed by people who weren't smart enough to study physics.

    edit: I do find it somewhat humorous, though, to think of those eight stories as linearly independant vectors in an 8 dimensional vector space that spans all possible stories.
    Last edited by He-Jutsu; August 19, 2008 at 04:18pm.
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  19. #94
    Mistress of the Whip! Divia's Avatar
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    Due to there being three threads on the script the mods have decided to streamline them into one thread. So please contiune your discussion in

    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=160355

    And we thank you for your support
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