Updated: Limited Edition MOTU ART BOOK at SDCC - Official Discussion

[scottycash2]

I dunno guys... If you buy a secret of the sword poster its 50 bucks.. If you buy 1 of the MOTU mag posters they are about 10 to 30 bucks if you look up (or find) the dvd art cards on ebay they go from 15 to 30.. I will gladly pay 50 bucks for a ton of art work that has never been seen and comes in a super rare book.. Its not fair to Matty that people are complaining about both price and quanatee.. They can only make 1000.. that is there deal and if there is only 1000 of something be glad its only 50 bucks.. How come no one is mad that he-ro is 20 bucks?? I think 20 is fair but that fig probably takes 4 bucks to make.. I have a ton of posters and I love the old he-man art so if I have to throw back a few extra bucks on my check for the book then so be it.. I have to get Matty's back on this one guys..

[JVS3]

Can't say I agree with the comparisons, Audric.

Take She-Ra for example.
They produced 12,000 of that figure.
There's 1000 of the book.

She-Ra was also produced in a quantity far higher than past exclusives.
And even with that in mind, it didn't take forever for Mattel to sell out of She-Ra.
It took only a few months.
You can't account for people who are reselling that figure.
If so, then you'd have to do the same for all other items, including MOTUC figures on eBay that date back to King Grayskull.

Plus, the lower the production, the higher the aftermarket price.
And we're potentially talking about a huge aftermarket price for a book that you can ONLY get as an exclusive if it sells out and is in high demand.
This isn't some repaint or a new cover on a DVD.
Look at the 2002 SDCC He-Man. Limited to 1000, and still fetches a huge price.
But at least with that, if you wanted He-Man, you could get him in another form.
With the book, you don't have any other options unless they are illegal (and we don't allow for talk of that here).
If it was offered on Matty first, all fans across the world would still have a chance to buy one. It's the book being a con exclusive that really upsets people.

How come no one is mad that he-ro is 20 bucks??

People have been unhappy about the high price for quite some time.
Roll in the fact so many figures arrived damaged, and the frustration increases.
Check out past threads.

[Audric]

Ok, I agree that maybe She-Ra was a bad example. I didn't know they produced THAT much of her
The 10-pack was a 1000 run, but those figures where available another way as well. So agreed, bad example...

So take the lithographs then. The He-Man and Skeletor ones.
Those were unique items I wanted, but I couldn't get them due to them only being available to the US. I really didn't like that, but not much I could do about it. I was able to get the preview comic, the game boy comic, but not those....
I didn't start threads saying MVC was slapping me in the face as a European fan and that it was unfair. There were things involved with the license that couldn't be helped. And trust me, I know what a mess those can be.

So maybe there is a problem with the way they are producing this.
Maybe they are allowed to do a limited run because of the movie concepts. Who knows. It might still get produced another way. All I'm saying is we don't know what Mattel will do. Things can go very fast, maybe the stars will align and Mattel will do another book, get the Filmation license....who knows..... That's why it would be nice to just take a deep breath and see what happens

MOTU is still alive and kicking after 25+ years. Thats more than I can say for another brand I'm a fan of (Jayce & the Wheeled Warriors) which has been dead in the water for at least 20+ years...

[Emiliano]

That's why it would be nice to just take a deep breath and see what happens

That's what I don't get.
Should people stop complaining so Mattel will never know they are upset they can't get it and thinks there is no demand for this book and never try to re release it again?

[JVS3]

Well, with the lithos, that would be Mattel slappin' ya in the face.
They limited them to US distribution.
We wanted world distribution but couldn't get it.

Just a note for those interested: lithos and posters are traditionally small sellers.
Books outsell both by quite a bit.
I think folks can get both the litho and poster at Graham crackers, though.. if anyone is still interested. And they ship worldwide.

It's the book being an exclusive that's the biggest problem.
If Mattel can only do a 1000, then they can only do a 1000.
But offer them on Matty first.
Give fans everywhere a chance to get them at the initial cost.
That's what I say.

[oICEMANo]

That and Im noticing the mark-up on the books from fellow fans is a bit...steep.

[Audric]

Of course not! How will they know what fans don't like and what to change.
All I'm saying is the way it is being done now could be toned down a little.
There are plenty of people voicing their concerns and making constructive suggestions, but there are just as many people who only moan and complain without taking a step back and adding something constructive.

Mattel is probably more willing to listen to (constructive) critisism if they don't have to dig through a mountain of negativity first. Seriously, what do we want Mattel to think? Those He-Man fans offer some good insights to what they want? Or those He-Man fans are a bunch of obsessive, angry fans to will scream and shout if they don't like something until they get their way?

They have already shown they ARE listening (subscribtion, mailer boxes, increased production etc). But we also have to realize they are a business as well, some things we may think are just easy fixes, may not be as easy for a large corporation.

Well, with the lithos, that would be Mattel slappin' ya in the face.
They limited them to US distribution.
We wanted world distribution but couldn't get it.

Just a note for those interested: lithos and posters are traditionally small sellers.
Books outsell both by quite a bit.
I think folks can get both the litho and poster at Graham crackers, though.. if anyone is still interested. And they ship worldwide.

It's the book being an exclusive that's the biggest problem.
If Mattel can only do a 1000, then they can only do a 1000.
But offer them on Matty first.
Give fans everywhere a chance to get them at the initial cost.
That's what I say.

Well there you go then

I tried Graham Crackers btw some time ago, they wouldn't ship the litho to Europe. Maybe they have changed that policy, I'll need to check. But thanks for the tip

And I do agree about offering it on Matty first, but because they are not doing that (and because they should have a pretty good idea of the reaction that would get on .org by now) I'm more or less expecting something similar to be produced in the future in a regular release.
I know, I'm naieve

[Andy Adams]

So maybe there is a problem with the way they are producing this.
Maybe they are allowed to do a limited run because of the movie concepts. Who knows. It might still get produced another way. All I'm saying is we don't know what Mattel will do. Things can go very fast, maybe the stars will align and Mattel will do another book, get the Filmation license....who knows..... That's why it would be nice to just take a deep breath and see what happens

Great optimism boyo and i also commend you for keeping your kewl regarding the matter.

I think the main problem about the art book is that it sounds like waht alot of folks have really looked forward to for a very long time and it's release is only available to the west coast at a con, plus the way that they are distributing it allows people to buy more than one to make a quick buck.

It's not really like matty has offered any hope to those who will miss out and it kinda' leaves a "you take it and love it like a good lil' sheep" taste in the mouths of fans.

Can it get reprinted and will it sell out is the two main questions on everyone's minds and I believe that it will sell out at san diego alone.

And...until matty comes out and says, "wow these things sold like hotcakes we shoulda' done more (then says,) we are working on our legalities and a better distribution plan so no one gets exluded for the next print." the rage that has been seen lately is still going to exist...and I for one can't blame people.

I'll go ahead and say this though, "I'm personally greatfull that this is being printed even at a 1000 copies but it would've been a lot nicer if 1000 different people across the entire globe had the same advantage of obtaining only 1 of these."

[ash]

I agree with others that this is almost entirely a distribution issue, not a quantity issue. If Mattel had announced this book at their panel at comic-con and given everyone there a free copy, then sold the rest only on mattycollector, I'd be a lot happier. That would have rewarded the fans who attended and made this available for all fans. Better yet would have been to pass out coupons that each had a unique coupon code that would have let them order a free copy from mattycollector, because then people in the room waiting for the next panel wouldn't likely buy them where they would take the free one. The coupons would be similar to the gift cards that sideshow gives out, and they could mark your name badge as they gave it to you so you only got 1.

The fact of the matter is though if there are 1,000 of them made with 125,000 attendees, that means at best 0.8% will get one (and since people tend to buy their limit and they don't enforce anyone going through the line twice, < 0.5%). Of those no more than 0.8% of people who buy them, my guess is at least 1/4th will have the word "Exhibitor" on their badge beating out fans who wait in line each day to get one, and consequently most of them will be resold.

[danbrenus]

That's what I don't get.
Should people stop complaining so Mattel will never know they are upset they can't get it and thinks there is no demand for this book and never try to re release it again?

NO, dammit! I could never be there to take one but I want it, and I want them to know I really upset about it!
And I'm sure enough to speak in the name of of all non-american MOTU fans.

[Kafos]

NO, dammit! I could never be there to take one but I want it, and I want them to know I really upset about it!
And I'm sure enough to speak in the name of of all non-american MOTU fans.

Non American AND American fans. Most American's here can't go to get one either.

[TheShadow]

That's what I don't get.
Should people stop complaining so Mattel will never know they are upset they can't get it and thinks there is no demand for this book and never try to re release it again?

There is a difference between constructive complaints and fan overreaction.

A lot of times the community is less constructive and more "gimme more, gimme what I want, you suck Mattel, yet I'll buy your product anyway so..."

I think we all should remember to read the news then take it in. Formulate a constructive opinion on the matter to post rather then kneejerk reactions.

I think the best criticism will come after the book has been tested at SDCC. If it sells out that will also show Mattel that there is a demand for such things and perhaps they can secure a way to release more than a 1,000 copy limited run in the future.

To be fair, Mattel has used this site for many years to get the hype-machine going for for the last couple of MOTU lines (i.e. advertising the Facebook page and Mattycollector). They have actual representatives coming here to post. We're also the first group of people they come to online when they need some sort of input. So, I think it would be a nice gesture to give something back to a community that stays involved.

Just because we are fans or members of this large MOTU/POP community does not entitle us to anything regardless if Mattel or whomever comes here and posts, asks opinions, etc. That within itself is a courtesy and we should be thankful for that.

[Emiliano]

There is a difference between constructive complaints and fan overreaction.

I agree, but you must admit most of the criticism have been not really harsh and very constructive... at least here
We were discussing this with Val this morning as we had to do very little moderation.
Still the number of negative reactions is higher then usual.
I don't think that's due to fan overreaction this time, but more about the fustration bulding up and the specific subject itself which seems to have touched a very personal and important chord in many fans

[TheShadow]

I agree, but you must admit most of the criticism have been not really harsh and very constructive... at least here
We were discussing this with Val this morning ad we had to do very little moderation.
Still the number of negative reaction is higher then usual.
I don't think that's due to fan overreaction this time, but more about the fustration bulding up and the specific subject itself which seems to have touched a very personal and important chord in many fans

I'm absolutely certain as well that a lot of people giving a negative opinion / showing frustration probably wouldn't buy the book even if it was on mattycollector.com because of the higher price tag. Or, it is the same situation as anything "exclusive". We always get negative comments on "exclusives", even if they have a larger run than just 1,000. Plus a lot of the community (even yourself in a post) never want to take what Mattel says at face value. Sure, companies can spin things. It happens everywhere. But we just automatically believe they are telling a fib about legalities of the book, etc. Who are we to say they are lying? We aren't their legal department. Stuff in the book seems like it spans back to the early 80s to now. Who knows what different types of agreements were in place on various things.

Back to the actual book... I'd rather see the opinions right now from the people at SDCC who actually try to obtain the book. Their failures and successes can help Mattel more in the decision making process.

[Eamon]

It's kinda like the book we've been really wanting for years is gonna here and gone before we know or see it.

I also think about how the average perception of MOTU would be seriously upgraded as this book is about art and not toys.
Even if you are not a MOTU fan, there's gonna be some great art in this book. But who gonna see it with such a low print run.

[Psycon]

I would've loved to get my hands on a copy of that book. And it is frustrating. But I'm not gonna have sleepless nights about it ... yet!

[JonWes]

I'd rather see the opinions right now from the people at SDCC who actually try to obtain the book. Their failures and successes can help Mattel more in the decision making process.

Well, that's not going to be a lot of people. Which is pretty much the point people are making. Although I agree people being over-dramatic can be annoying, I'd say they are a small percentage and it's unfair to try to characterize the problems people are having with this exclusive as that.

To me, Mattel are doing a lot more right than wrong right now. I think what they're producing with MOTUC is amazing right now. Even though the site can be annoying at times I've been fairly happy with the mechanics of getting figures and of course the figures themselves have been uniformly amazing so far. So I don't think anyone is doing an awful job or should get fired and I actually think TG SHOULD get credit for putting this art book together because I'm sure it was a lot of work.

But there is no denying that A LOT of people have wanted this for a long time. And yes, maybe some people couldn't pay the price tag they want for this book... RIGHT NOW. That's part of the complaint! If it were a $50 book that was available in more than a limited fashion then you wouldn't have to scramble to have money right now. But of course, for whatever stupid legal reason Mattel can't do that right now. We get it. But does that mean that people have to accept that SDCC was the best way to get these out there? Nope. If you're producing something "for the fans" then I think saying... "Hey... maybe you could have made this available in a manner where more actual fans (and not speculators) would have the chance to get it" is not really that CRAZY of a thought to put in a post.

What I really love are the people who come into the thread and try to say "Life is unfair, that is the way it is, people don't always get what they want."
Well... DUH. It's not like anyone doesn't know that and frankly it's condescending in the extreme for someone to think they haven't ever thought of it. At the end of the day there are people with a lot bigger problems then not being able to get X action figure or Y exclusive. But we're on here to talk about MOTU which includes action figures and exclusives and everything else MOTU-related. To expect MOTU fans who have little or no chance of getting an item they've wanted for a long time to NOT complain. That's both unfair and rather silly.

Exclusives, right now, are just a part of the game. I understand their purpose. But that doesn't mean myself, or anyone else, has to like it. Just because we live in a world full of examples of items that only the few can obtain because they have means others do not doesn't mean those of who don't have the means at the moment can't complain about it.

[oICEMANo]

It's kinda like the book we've been really wanting for years is gonna here and gone before we know or see it.

I also think about how the average perception of MOTU would be seriously upgraded as this book is about art and not toys.
Even if you are not a MOTU fan, there's gonna be some great art in this book. But who gonna see it with such a low print run.

Exactly! I mean this book is probably gonna be filled with stuff that got me into art in the first place.

[Emiliano]

It's kinda like the book we've been really wanting for years is gonna here and gone before we know or see it.

The really interesting thing about all this is discovering how the close relationship of the artwork and our passion for MOTU is shared by so many people.

One could have thought it was just a personal thing, and guys like me, or you, Val had this strong bond to artwork that is almost equal to the bond to the toys.
Seems like many other people have same feelings.
Even Toyguro has similar feelings as I know he wanted to do a book for a long time, we talked many times about that.

And that speaks very high for the Original line and the work Mattel did in the eighties.

[Tallstar]

Just because we are fans or members of this large MOTU/POP community does not entitle us to anything regardless if Mattel or whomever comes here and posts, asks opinions, etc. That within itself is a courtesy and we should be thankful for that.

I disagree. That's not how the world works. The vast majority of folks have expectations, and I think it's a good thing to have them; to hold a company like Mattel to a high standard.

Besides, it's not as if we're asking for free copies. Also, the idea for a coffee table book has been brought up many many times on here by members, as well as in the Q & As. Mattel said they would look into it. Tis a bit rude to not make it available to the folks who so desperately wanted it.

[Eamon]

The really interesting thing about all this is discovering how the close relationship of the artwork and our passion for MOTU is shared by so many people.

One could have thought it was just a personal thing, and guys like me, or you, Val had this strong bond to artwork that is almost equal to the bond to the toys.
Seems like many other people have same feelings.
Even Toyguro has similar feelings as I know he wanted to do a book for a long time, we talked many times about that.

And that speaks very high for the Original line and the work Mattel did in the eighties.

I would also add that for many of us the artwork is all we had as some didn't like the toon that much. It just didn't capture the vibe and the excitement the box art of Rudy Obrero and William George created.
Not forgetting the mighty Alfredo Alcala in the mini comics.

And lets not forget how some of us even started being artists in the first place!!
Seeing MOTU box art as a 8 or 9 year old left biiiiigg impressions.

[danbrenus]

I would also add that for many of us the artwork is all we had as some didn't like the toon that much. It just didn't capture the vibe and the excitement the box art of Rudy Obrero and William George created.
Not forgetting the mighty Alfredo Alcala in the mini comics.

And lets not forget how some of us even started being artists in the first place!!
Seeing MOTU box art as a 8 or 9 year old left biiiiigg impressions.

With you 100% pal!

[scott metzger]

People aren’t, for the most part, over-reacting. Folks, understand that the frustration here isn’t just over one book; it’s over years, getting close to a decade now, of Mattel consistently tripping over their own two feet. Distribution problems that continue, unabated, to this day (ask a DC Universe fan the last time he saw a DCUC figure on the pegs) and all the problems I mentioned earlier. These are the folks who killed the 6 inch Bat line with Crisis on Technicolor Batmen (do you know what it takes NOT to sell a cash cow like Batman?). And MOTU 2002. And DC Super Heroes. And Harry Potter. And more I’m forgetting at the moment.

The anger you’re seeing is coming from years of the same clueless, never-able-to-learn-from-mistakes marketing. People would be disappointed and angry at the small print run (and scratching their heads at yet another “legal problem” at Mattel), but Val and others hit the biggest nail on the head when they said it’s the way it’s being distributed. At least at Matty, even with the Red Screen of Doom looming in front of you, there’d be a sense that you had some chance here. This move was guaranteed, absolutely certain to evoke this reaction. That Matty blithely announced the exciting news to the world simply shows how far Mattel still has to go to even start understanding the market they are trying to tap. It’s not that it’s a single bad decision; it’s that this is another in an endless line of bad choices, and I see no reason whatsoever to think it’s the last.

This is why folks are ticked. And they've got good reason to be.

[LORD FALLEN ELDOR]

I'm more upset about the size and the price of it. I've spent $50 on art books in the past, but they are usually a couple hundred pages long.
As far as distribution, I'm biased as I plan on going to SDCC...If they sell out on preview night, I'll start the Mattel lynch mob you'll undoubtedly see on the news if that happens. I agree that it was stupid of Mattel to limit it only to SDCC...

Just because we are fans or members of this large MOTU/POP community does not entitle us to anything regardless if Mattel or whomever comes here and posts, asks opinions, etc. That within itself is a courtesy and we should be thankful for that.

Actually it is market research and usually costs companies lots of money to conduct. Mattel conducts free market research because of sites like He-Man.org! Most other companies realizing this are grateful for the opportunity and in return offer actual news about future items like Hasbro does. Mattel's Q&A read like stiff layer talk most of the time and they take us for granted.

People would be disappointed and angry at the small print run (and scratching their heads at yet another “legal problem” at Mattel), but Val and others hit the biggest nail on the head when they said it’s the way it’s being distributed.

Mattel should just rename it self "legal problems" because that's all they ever seam to offer these days. Hasbro seams to offer Transfans and Joe Fans everything us He-Fans want with little to no legal stipulations. Mattel needs to pony up the cash to purchase back whatever rights they don't own, or MOTU can never have a real future! That or fire the Lawyers because they aren't very good, IMO.

[JimPansen]

For me it always was the Boxart that makes MotU superior compared to other Toylines. It provides me still that great Fantasy-Adventure feeling, that i so much love.