Fanart by nebezial AKA Stjepan Sejic

Originally Posted by Eamon

Well there's good reasons why ya can't see anything!
If the materials were there, I would do a LOTR montage type thing too.

But do you think it's the right tone compared to Sejic's tone? you a furry man or a shiny metal man?

Im a furry man all the way. (that sounds weird...)
Why don't you try one in the LOTR style then. Just use your fav actors as stand ins...

While I love the barbaric MotU, I wouldn't be opposed to a He-man that looks like this. It would make him look even more special in a world where people wear loincloths.

I love his designs, especially Battle Cat and Hordak.

not everything from comicbooks and videogames translates to movies well. The latest example of that would be the changes made to the green lantern costume. Nebezial is one of the artists i have always looked up to and been inspired by, but for a he-man movie i would rather have artists like Dylan Cole and the likes come up with the designs because of their experience in the field.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

Really the only armor that was added were the greaves and shoulderpads. I think He-man look much less knightly in these pics than say the accepted look of Battle Armor He-man. Saying "why armor the legs but not the torso" is no different that saying why armor the torso and not the legs, which several versions of He-man have done (along with most other MOTU characters). In addition, how many Masters characters do exactly that? Trapjaw is the glaring example of having armored legs with no chest armor.

Trap Jaw is a cyborg, He-Man is not!
Everybody else on MOTU has exposed flesh, especially the legs. That has always been the style of the brand.


Not sure what to think with all these fans liking this video game He-Man so much!
I find it a little odd given how much love there is for the boxart, minicomics and Filmation and MYP toon all of which were very sword & sorcery with savage design elements.

This illustration has none of that!

Originally Posted by oICEMANo

Im a furry man all the way. (that sounds weird...)
Why don't you try one in the LOTR style then. Just use your fav actors as stand ins...

That would be an insane amount of work for something that depend on finding the right images etc.

I do have a something on the brew that does involve an actor. I just need to get it done.

Originally Posted by Eamon

Not sure what to think with all these fans liking this video game He-Man so much!
I find it a little odd given how much love there is for the boxart, minicomics and Filmation and MYP toon all of which were very sword & sorcery with savage design elements.

This illustration has none of that!

Just speculating here because I can't read people's minds, but it could be because the things you can't see, other people see tonnes of.

I for one see loads of Filmation (someone mentioned Arthurian, which is such a great description of Filmation's design twist on Mattel's original designs) and original boxart, heaps of savagery, all on top of an up to date, more realistic foundation.

"Video game" is so far removed from what I see when I look at it.

Art is entirely interpretational. You can't put adjectives into peoples heads and expect them to describe what those people see too.

Fine art may be entirely interpretational. Illustration is not. This is an illustration.

I do not subscribe to this idea at all that all art interpretational. I find it gets all too often used as a get out clause for poorly rendered illustration work or not getting the right tone. The latter is what I think the case is here.

In my opinion it's a nice piece of art but it's not a niece piece of MOTU art!

Originally Posted by Eamon

Fine art may be entirely interpretational. Illustration is not. This is an illustration.

I do not subscribe to this idea at all that all art interpretational. I find it gets all too often used as a get out clause for poorly rendered illustration work or not getting the right tone. The latter is what I think the case is here.

That's probably why you're so closed minded about it. You're using descriptional terms which are open to interpretation to describe the illustration, yet consider an illustration to be void of individual interpretation. You have a rigid opinion about what illustration can and can't do, then do the opposite by describing your interpretation of that illustration.

Those terms you're using aren't going to fit what everyone sees in that illustration, and in cases when they do, aren't necessarily going to be interpreted in the same way you're interpreting them.

On a side note, I personally don't think his illustrations are poorly rendered at all. In fact I believe they're exceptionally rendered.

I love being lectured about art!!

I never said Stjepan Sejic's art was poorly rendered. Please read posts in full.

(Disclaimer, I am no expert. These are just the ramblings of an over caffeinated fan.)

Honestly I think this its less about "interpreting" the art and more about how you see MOTU which everyone is going to have a different opinion on, and thats fair, especially with all the incarnations of He-man. . . and just because of the nature of He-man. Its a barbarian scify mashup with some renaissance-y fantasy mixed in. Its only natural the importance of each ingredient are going to be different to each fan.

At the end of the day the studio is going to go the visual route that makes them the most money and gets them the most new fans. Look at Transformers. They didn't exactly stick to what the "fans" loved visually from the past most old schoolers disliked it, but now they are making mega money and the property is more than a little alive which is great for everyone i think. It was a huge success because it appealed to another very important audience for them. So even if WE all agree that we want more of a barbarian focus than a scifi focus or whatever that may not be what they want or need to do. None of us are marketing experts so all we can do is guess. I personally would love to see something more like what Val and Eamon are talking about but I suspect its actually going to be something a bit more on the other side just because of what I'm purely guessing they think appeals to a wider modern audience.

Also I think we all love He-man so much and are almost too close to it sometimes. Properties evolve and I think they need to. Look at Batman as an example of this. People watching the 60's batman TV show probably never would have thought they'd see a Nolan type batman. Properties have to keep themselves current with whats popular to the modern audience and as much as we love the mini comics stuff, or filmation, or myp, or NA (I know there are a few out there lol) or whatever era it may be I think we need to be open to this movie redefining He-man again. I thought MYP did an amazing job of updating it while still keeping the essence and even a bit of the tone of previous incarnations but even that if you are just looking at the two main cartoons really has a different tone... actually look at all three... he-man's personality seems totally different to me in NA I actually find him to have a darker personality in NA than in Filmation or MYP. Also movies tend to follow audience trends, so they are going to be looking at other movies with similar demographics themes and visuals I think. People bring up 300 a lot but I'm not sure how large its 8-14 audience was (nor how many kids were buying 300 toys) and you gotta believe that Mattel desperately wants kids buying these toys again.

Patreek: We're on exactly the right wavelength. Mattel and the movie studio won't care what's "right" for the franchise, they will go with what they think will rake in the money from casual movie-goers. Sometimes that works amazingly well, like with Transformers, sometimes it doesn't.

When I mention 300, I simply refer to it in terms of execution. ie. the painterly looking style and the amounts of flesh on display.

Whenever folks say that "I don't think MOTU couldn't work if made to resemble the toys", I point them to 300 and Spartacus or even WWE.

Transformers needed to make those changes as the way the toys worked wasn't feasable on screen plus the all important tone of the Transformers movie is right. It feels Transformers in it's execution.

I agree that there will be some changes but the tone has to be right. Not having the savage sword & sorcery as a starting point I think is a bad move.

Originally Posted by Eamon

Trap Jaw is a cyborg, He-Man is not!
Everybody else on MOTU has exposed flesh, especially the legs. That has always been the style of the brand.

Trapjaw may be a cyborg, but a sword thrust to the chest would kill him none the less. Also, his legs are not mentioned anywhere I have seen as being cybernetic, only his arm and jaw. You also have several other characters in 200x with at least partially armored legs, such as Skeletor and Stratos. Why was it okay to give them leg armor?

One thing to keep in mind here is that this is a world where sword, sorcery and technology all work hand in hand. To be honest it doesn't matter what you are wearing as far as armor goes, a laser blast to the chest will kill just about anyone. The technological mash-up on Eternia is damn near impossible in the real world (assuming the existance of magic). Magic is often seen as a replacement for advanced tech, and the two evolving separately would be difficult. Never mind the fact that people would stop using swords in a time where laser pistols are available (exceptions made for Swords of Power and Protection ). This creates several almost paradox-like scenarios and as a consequence different artists and versions of he-man end up accentuating different aspects of the mythos (sword, sorcery or technology).

Honestly, I believe the barbarian aspect of He-man fits in the least out of them all, with the only throwback to the conan-style origins to be fuzzy underpants. Honestly, I think that facet of He-man reduces him to a Conan/Kull the Conqueror wannabe (which is a great injustice to the character). There are no other "barbarian" type major characters in the Fimation era mythos (did it not bother anyone else that "poor villager 3" was more technologically advanced looking than the hero of the universe, who in his spare time was also a well off prince?). This was also very apparent and almost jarring in 200x. Nothing like barbarian He-man standing amist a group of heavily tech-armored compatriots. Perhaps that is why the Snake Armor was so well receive. He-man finally looked like he fit in.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

Trapjaw may be a cyborg, but a sword thrust to the chest would kill him none the less. Also, his legs are not mentioned anywhere I have seen as being cybernetic, only his arm and jaw. You also have several other characters in 200x with at least partially armored legs, such as Skeletor and Stratos. Why was it okay to give them leg armor?

One thing to keep in mind here is that this is a world where sword, sorcery and technology all work hand in hand. To be honest it doesn't matter what you are wearing as far as armor goes, a laser blast to the chest will kill just about anyone. The technological mash-up on Eternia is damn near impossible in the real world (assuming the existance of magic). Magic is often seen as a replacement for advanced tech, and the two evolving separately would be difficult. Never mind the fact that people would stop using swords in a time where laser pistols are available (exceptions made for Swords of Power and Protection ). This creates several almost paradox-like scenarios and as a consequence different artists and versions of he-man end up accentuating different aspects of the mythos (sword, sorcery or technology).

Honestly, I believe the barbarian aspect of He-man fits in the least out of them all, with the only throwback to the conan-style origins to be fuzzy underpants. Honestly, I think that facet of He-man reduces him to a Conan/Kull the Conqueror wannabe (which is a great injustice to the character). There are no other "barbarian" type major characters in the Fimation era mythos (did it not bother anyone else that "poor villager 3" was more technologically advanced looking than the hero of the universe, who in his spare time was also a well off prince?). This was also very apparent and almost jarring in 200x. Nothing like barbarian He-man standing amist a group of heavily tech-armored compatriots. Perhaps that is why the Snake Armor was so well receive. He-man finally looked like he fit in.

They can use the swords to block/dodge the lasers! Idk... Starwars has swords... and yes they are laser swords... but I think if you assume the swords in MOTU are magical to SOME extent or are made out of some sort of impervious material that can block laser fire than they can function the same way they do in star wars.

Originally Posted by Patreek

The can use the swords to block/dodge the lasers! Idk... Starwars has swords... and yes they are laser swords... but I think if you assume the swords in MOTU are magical to SOME extent or are made out of some sort of impervious material that can block laser fire than they can function the same way they do in star wars.

Even if you make that assumption, why am I going to run at someone with a "magic sword" when I can shoot them from 1000 meters with a laser pistol? Hence the demise of the samurai to the tanegashima riflemen in feudal Japan... and the eventual (alomst total) demise of the Jedi/Sith in Star Wars.

Originally Posted by Eamon

When I mention 300, I simply refer to it in terms of execution. ie. the painterly looking style and the amounts of flesh on display.

I agree I think its great and would love a movie in this vein. I just don't know how much it would appeal to kids... I also don't know how much it wouldn't i'm not a marketing expert. I really hope it would cause it would be awesome! :-) I just worry it might be a little too dark and flat color wise to pull kids in. That was what was SO great about the Filmation toon to me it was so full of rich colors.

Whenever folks say that "I don't think MOTU couldn't work if made to resemble the toys", I point them to 300 and Spartacus or even WWE.

I think it could definitely work but again I don't know how many children are watching Spartacus and 300. it would be great for us though. The WWE though i think is a good point though lots of kids like that AND they buy the toys right?

Transformers needed to make those changes as the way the toys worked wasn't feasable on screen plus the all important tone of the Transformers movie is right. It feels Transformers in it's execution.

What worries me though is Transformers has always been out there. From the 80's till now there has been something out there making money. Makes sense to not feel you need to deviate to much then. But MOTU has had a really hard time reintroducing the property to new audiences and has really fallen out of the limelight. I, thus could see why they might be much more open to changing things up trying to figure out how to make it appeal more. I hope they don't... i just worry they will. Looking at the art book from sdcc... they seem to really want to starwars it up.

I agree that there will be some changes but the tone has to be right. Not having the savage sword & sorcery as a starting point I think is a bad move.

Sword and sorcery and Barbarian are two different things in MOTU though because the SS stuff is all renaissance. Which do you think the focus should be? I personally put SS first, then tech and actually have the barbarian element last because I really only see He-man representing that in most of the media. Everything about the world they live in is very SS to me. . . they just have broadswords instead of more Ren styled swords and furry undies and a penchant for showing off their pecs and abs.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

Even if you make that assumption, why am I going to run at someone with a "magic sword" when I can shoot them from 1000 meters with a laser pistol? Hence the demise of the samurai to the tanegashima riflemen in feudal Japan... and the eventual (alomst total) demise of the Jedi/Sith in Star Wars.

Uh... cause its WAY cooler?

What is the line that divides a fine art to a simple illustration?

Originally Posted by heavy-eternium

What is the line that divides a fine art to a simple illustration?

If an average person on the street can appreciate it and like it then it's an illustration.

If you need an art degree or other training to appreciate it it's fine art.

I agree with Eamon 100% while no doubt this is great Art and light years sadly (for me) beyond what I can create. This is not Masters of the Universe to me. In my humble opinion Masters of the Universe is Raw barbarism. Warriors made out of blood and bronze, fire and ice . A Paleolithic world mixed with post apocalyptic technology.

Originally Posted by heavy-eternium

What is the line that divides a fine art to a simple illustration?

Illustration has a brief. Fine art does not. Or illustration is paid for before it's done where as fine art isn't.

The Sistine Chapel is technically an illustration as Michaelangel was commisioned to do it and given a brief.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

T
Honestly, I believe the barbarian aspect of He-man fits in the least out of them all, with the only throwback to the conan-style origins to be fuzzy underpants. Honestly, I think that facet of He-man reduces him to a Conan/Kull the Conqueror wannabe (which is a great injustice to the character).

I read a lot of Conan and I think He-man is nothing like Howard's character.
The reason why Conan does what he does are completely different to why He-man does what he does ie. Conan does it to survive and get rich, He-man does it out of duty and love. Conan is essentially an antihero. He-Man is essentially a grounded superhero.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

There are no other "barbarian" type major characters in the Fimation era mythos (did it not bother anyone else that "poor villager 3" was more technologically advanced looking than the hero of the universe, who in his spare time was also a well off prince?). This was also very apparent and almost jarring in 200x. Nothing like barbarian He-man standing amist a group of heavily tech-armored compatriots. Perhaps that is why the Snake Armor was so well receive. He-man finally looked like he fit in.

Then we have a totally different view of what sword & sorcery is as I completely disagree with everything you said there dude.
The Filmation show had plenty of S&S elements. We are talking about the Filmation show right? The one that regularly featuring giant demon apes, snake people, truck loads of wizards, witches and demons. These elements are the cornerstone of S&S.

He-Man's snake armour in 200x is very much gladitorial in it's design and what genre do you think the Snake Men are? As you already indicated, the Snake Men did prove to be very popular. The Power of Grayskull episode by the way being the most popular episode and guess what genre over all other episodes that is? Yarp...S&S.

I think you need to look again at Castle Grayskull, Battle Cat, Teela, Sorceress and Skeletor as that ain't no high Fantasy like Lord of the Rings, or modern fantasy with technology like Final Fantasy, sorry but that's old skool sword & sorcery bro.



I'm gonna put my neck out and state that I am pretty confident nobody reads or has more sword & sorcery material as I do on this thread.

Saying MOTU is not S&S is like saying Star Trek isn't sci-fi.

I believe it's paramount that the new movie at the very least start off in the realms of S&S.

Far be it from me to tell folks they should change how they look at the MOTU. But I do wonder what genre folks think MOTU is closest to sometimes and what actually works with the new generation of fans.

Here some facts that I am sure someone like Emiliano can correct me on if I am wrong:
• The initial wave of MOTU toys in the 80's were very S&S in look. This is the wave that put MOTU on the map. Mid ways through the line when thinks got more techy looking, sales went down. Sales then rose when the Snake Men were introduced. Snake Men being very much a S&S element.

• The 1987 movie. The over all feeling is there's too much technology.

• New Adventures completely failed. It had no S&S elements at all.

• Mike Young's toon. The most popular episodes like Snake Pit, Price of Deceibt and lets not forget the Emmy award winning Powers of Grayskull, were all brimming with S&S elements.

My point being, is that the S&S elements is what makes MOTU work and I personally think from a money making as well as a fan point of view, the facts speak for themselves. The S&S elements are vital to what makes the brand and what will make a new MOTU movie so cool!


Right! Rant over!

I'm confused cause didn't he say that he DID see a lot of SS in it and that he thought the Barbarianism was the most out of place? I don't think of Sword and Sorcery and Barbarianism as the same thing at least in terms of MOTU (generally I guess barbarianism could be thought of as a sub genre of SS) and I think he is talking about them as different things in his post...

That said different things or not I think both are integral to MOTU so i disagree with ZexisStryfe, I just see SS having the most influence, followed by tech, followed last by Barbarianism. POP pretty much cuts barbarianism out completely.

Thats just me, obviously some fans will think of it differently infact I have some friends around these parts that would just LOVE it is tech was totally taken out of MOTU. *shudder* lol While others really love the barbarian focus of the early mini comics. Where SS and Tech were less important.


Anyway I have a new much greater point to make. He-man will unfortunately HAVE to be in body armor... because since its a movie they have to have something to put the fake nipples onto... real ones don't count.

As pointed out earlier, two of the most popular episodes of the MYP toon had completely got rid of all barbarian elements from the He-man design, and overhauled him as a techno-knight.

I for one hope there's tonnes of sword and sorcery elements, but the fact is times change. Although the majority of us like Sejic's work because it has that "savage sword and sorcery" as its base, don't be surprised if Mattel take note of the popularity of techno-knight He-man in the new toon and ditch the barbarian altogether. They did in some of the concept art.

It's not to everyone's taste, but MYP showed it can still work that way too.

Originally Posted by Eamon

I love being lectured about art!!

At least you learned something.

Originally Posted by ZexisStryfe

Even if you make that assumption, why am I going to run at someone with a "magic sword" when I can shoot them from 1000 meters with a laser pistol? Hence the demise of the samurai to the tanegashima riflemen in feudal Japan... and the eventual (alomst total) demise of the Jedi/Sith in Star Wars.

This is brilliant. I know you don't mean it that way, but the way you used the Jedi/Sith next to the Samurai, it sounds like you think Star Wars is real.

Comedy genius.

I love the concept art and am happy with everything but He-man.

The He-man I think of is supposed to be big and intimidating. Always the bad guys were in complete control of the situation until He-man showed up. And when he did you could see their confidence shrink and sometimes even fear in their voices and eyes.

He-man didn't need armor because he was a athletic, powerful, barbarian type warrior. He used his brain a lot but overall brawn was his weapon of choice. He was like a cross of Captain America and the Hulk.
I could see all the other characters and the complete design in these pics selling a movie. But I would be highly disappointed if He-man was just a sword weilding warrior, dsperately fighting to save Eternia with the help of his friends.


I guess I'm also biased that my homeade canon made the evil warriors each much more powerful than they're traditionally presented. They could go one on one with a lot of the Masters but He-man was the only one that could defeat them all.


I want a big, powerful, throwing Beast-man around like a rag doll He-man.

Ah misunderstanding... my old nemesis!

I most definately don't mean that S&S doesn't have a place in He-man. Personally I think Masters of the Universe is and always should be S&S. However, barbarian stories are not the only type of S&S. As Pat stated, I place most S&S in middle ages/renaissance times where as barbarian stories and personas are a very speciallized sub-genre of S&S. Hate to say it, but I think a knight is a heck of a lot more S&S than a barbarian (although I do not agree that this He-Man looks knightly per se, and I certainly don't see any similarity to "video game" heroes). As a matter of fact, I think all of Nebezial's images with the possible exception of the wacky sci-fi ships in the last image ooze Sword and Sorcery in every way.

Oh, and don't get me wrong- I have no problem with barbarian elements. They just rank last for me on the sword & sorcery/technology/barbarism list. I will admit to prefering the 200x loincloths though... something about furry underwear on the outside just doesn't appeal to me!

I am rather confused by your statements that Snake Armor He-Man's armor was gladatorial. I don't know of any precedence for gladiators to wear full body suits of armor. It actually is kind of counterintuitive when you think that gladiators existed for bloodsport. What good is showing all the stabby-stabby if all the good blood and guts are covered by armor?

Fantombe- Wait... are you saying Star Wars isn't real?

Man this discussion is just moving further and further out into left field, isn't it?

He-Man's super pupular gear was gladitorial in it's design. You need to do your research.

I will add to my little rant that and go one further, 300 and Spartcus are the flavour of the day and were and are hugely popular. Figures speak for themselves.
If there was ever a time to stick with the gritty MOTU in all it's S&S glory, it's now. Folks are lapping this stuff up the figures speak for themselves.

Patreek questioned earlier weather kids would like how 300 and Spartacus looks! When do kids ever not want to watch something like what their parents watch? Kids always want stuff that 'feels' grown up.

The 300 look is a money maker, it works and with this sorta technique, you could do a great 12cert MOTU movie that feels just like the brand.
Both 300 and Spartacus do not shy away from anything. They go all out with their conviction and not worried about amount of flesh on display. They don't hold back and thus these things are a huge success.

I am telling ya, MOTU should go this route too. Don't hold back don't be afraid to make it look just like the box art and Filmation toon.

I personally do think that now more than ever is the perfect time to give us a true MOTU movie. Audiences are ready for furry shorts!!

Originally Posted by fantombe

At least you learned something.

Indeed I have!

Originally Posted by fantombe

After the UK Filmation DVD covers, that's a good thing.

Niiicce!! fantombe ladies and gentlemen! What a lovely thing to say and it's relevant too!!

Originally Posted by Eamon

Indeed I have!

Niiicce!! fantombe ladies and gentlemen! What a lovely thing to say and it's relevant too!!

Exactly. It shows although you were being arrogant, you're not in a position to think you know more than the target audience. Especially when you say one thing but do the opposite.

As long as you're a "swing enough times" artist, you should be taking note of as many lectures as you can.

I'm sorry you wouldn't allow me to take the high road, but it's up to you which way you want to take this discussion from here.

ZexisStryfe - It is honestly! Don't let anyone tell you different!

(Or maybe Samurai aren't real...)