Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 1119202122 LastLast
Results 501 to 525 of 535

Thread: Official Catch-All Pro-Wrestling Thread.

  1. #501
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    3,748
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I think the first Wrestlemania I seen was a VHS I bought of 14 or 6 that I rented.
    It's nice having a variety of different matches on the show, not every match needs to be a near hour 5* epic.

    If I am not mistaken the Wrestlemania you are talking about with Lynch, Flair and Rousey was really long and the pre show had those two battle royals.
    That triple threat should have been a 4 way with Asuka included instead of her having to drop the title to Charlotte a week or two before the event. Although I do understand why they had to add another actual wrestler in the match for Becky to work with as Rhonda's ring skills were very limited to be in a main event. Granted though she was more skilled than Lawrence Taylor to be in a main event.
    WrestleMania 11 was the worst one in my book. 1995 was an awful year for the WWF. That was the first time I ever stopped watching WWF religiously, but the Monday Night War with WCW sucked me back in later that year plus WWF started getting edgier, especially by 1996 with the Raw Magazine, Sunny, Billionaire Ted skits, rise of Stone Cold, etc...



    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    I'm unsure if the Snuka stuff is still taboo. When I had my trial subscription, he had just been charged, and WWE removed all traces of him from the network and their website. The Hogan controversy was around the same time, and they removed all Hogan-centric non-match material (his promos, interviews).

    There seems to be three levels of blacklisting in WWE. There's Tier 1, the post-scandal Hulk tier, where your wrestling matches are fine, but any ancillary material is removed. Tier 2, the Snuka tier, is when your solo matches and promos are removed, but if you made a minor appearance in the Royal Rumble or as a tag partner, they let that slide. Then there's Tier 3, the Benoit tier, where there's no trace of you anywhere. All references to you are removed, and your name or likeness is nowhere to be found.

    In Snuka's case, he was never convicted, as he was ruled incompetent to stand trial. I think the clincher was when an independent doctor informed the judge that he probably had less than a year to live, so he never faced justice in this life (if he purposely killed her; I believe he did.) There's eyewitness testimony that Vince McMahon bought his freedom, and Snuka said for years that Vince walked into the precinct with a suitcase, disappeared with the police captain, and five minutes later walked out with Snuka. Jimmy said "Vince, you forgot your suitcase," and he replied "I wish I could forget it. There's a half a million reasons I wish I could forget it," implying he bribed the investigators with a half a million bucks. So if there's any truth to that, maybe Vince felt guilty or responsible or just didn't want to answer any questions about why Snuka was still on the air, so he pulled his matches.

    I can separate the art from the artist in most cases. I still have my Bill Cosby records. I still enjoy seeing Snuka fly off the top rope. I still enjoy seeing Chris Benoit performing a mandible claw. Kevin Spacey made some excellent films. I'm not going to burn my Blu-Ray of the '87 Masters of the Universe film because Gary Goddard ended up being a sleaze. I can understand when people feel compelled to scorch the earth when their favorite celebrity falls from grace, but if I destroyed every book, album or movie I enjoy because the writer or performer was a terrible human, I'd have very little media left to enjoy.
    I recently watched that Dark Side of the Ring episode on YouTube about the Snuka/Argentino thing. I feel very bad for her family too. I hope Snuka was innocent, but it's unlikely, and he did abuse her previously from various accounts. Just very sad.

    I wish I could enjoy the Cosby Show as I used to, but it's hard not to think about it when you see him. At least I never liked "Ghost Dad".

  2. #502
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    WrestleMania IX was probably the objective worst. WM11 was pretty bad but there were a couple of matches that weren't awful. Diesel/Michaels was good.

    But WM9 really only had one good match, the Steiners/Headshrinkers match that nobody even remembers. Unless you're a HUGE Hogan fan/apologist, there was nothing about WM9 to get excited about at all.

    *I* am, so I actually liked the finish of that show. But I totally understand why most people were spitting fire over it. And altogether that just plain was a bad show.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  3. #503
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    WrestleMania 11 was the worst one in my book. 1995 was an awful year for the WWF. That was the first time I ever stopped watching WWF religiously, but the Monday Night War with WCW sucked me back in later that year plus WWF started getting edgier, especially by 1996 with the Raw Magazine, Sunny, Billionaire Ted skits, rise of Stone Cold, etc...
    Wrestlemania 9 was the worst of the 90's. I don't hate it but there wasn't that many good matches and the whole main event fiasco was odd.
    11 had a pretty crap main event but the rest of the show was pretty solid.

  4. #504
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    I've always been tolerant of the WM11 main event because 1. Lawrence Taylor actually didn't do a bad job, and 2. I met Bam Bam Bigelow several times and he was always really nice to me, so he was always a personal favorite in our household. That isn't a "good" match but it's not horrible for what it is.

    And, of course, there's still the Diesel/Michaels match. Outside of that, though... yeah, not a lot to get excited about that year, either.

    I gotta be honest, I haven't really enjoyed a WrestleMania in a very long time. I'm very critical even on a good day, but ever since I got into actually wrestling, watching it on TV has been a real drag. You constantly see stuff that guys "aren't supposed to do" and too much stuff that just plain doesn't make sense, and it gets old fast. The last straw for me was the Triple H and Sting disaster a few years ago; after that, I barely even glance at the TV while my wife is watching it. I got sick of having my intelligence insulted and being force-fed the idea that these guys can (and will) screw up absolutely anything, just to prove a point.

    What's worse is when people go out of their way to defend the atrocious booking, especially guys in the business. Like, you're "not allowed" to dislike anything WWE puts out, or you're just "jealous" or "don't get it." Like when they had Undertaker lose to Brock, a TON of guys supposedly "in the know" were like "You're all just a bunch of marks! You don't get it! This way Undertaker can fight Sting next year at 'Mania and the finish will be more ambiguous since The Streak won't be a factor! Any idiot can see that's what they're doing, c'mon guys quit whining. They're working you!" And then joke's on them, not only did they NOT ever do Sting vs. Undertaker but apparently that was never seriously on the table in the first place. Taker losing to Brock literally was just a random BS idea they did just because they could. There was no "grand plan" behind it, nor is there ever for ANY of the bad decisions they make.

    They just make it up day-by-day as they go along, and when you call it out for being nonsense, you get scolded for "Not getting it." There's nothing to "get"! It's like saying the whole "Retribution" angle was garbage from the jump; some people were like, "You just don't know where they're gonna go with it, yet. They have a plan, just wait!" Uhhh... no, they didn't. Ever. At all. Obviously Bad Booking Is Bad.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  5. #505
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I've always been tolerant of the WM11 main event because 1. Lawrence Taylor actually didn't do a bad job, and 2. I met Bam Bam Bigelow several times and he was always really nice to me, so he was always a personal favorite in our household. That isn't a "good" match but it's not horrible for what it is.

    And, of course, there's still the Diesel/Michaels match. Outside of that, though... yeah, not a lot to get excited about that year, either.

    I gotta be honest, I haven't really enjoyed a WrestleMania in a very long time. I'm very critical even on a good day, but ever since I got into actually wrestling, watching it on TV has been a real drag. You constantly see stuff that guys "aren't supposed to do" and too much stuff that just plain doesn't make sense, and it gets old fast. The last straw for me was the Triple H and Sting disaster a few years ago; after that, I barely even glance at the TV while my wife is watching it. I got sick of having my intelligence insulted and being force-fed the idea that these guys can (and will) screw up absolutely anything, just to prove a point.

    What's worse is when people go out of their way to defend the atrocious booking, especially guys in the business. Like, you're "not allowed" to dislike anything WWE puts out, or you're just "jealous" or "don't get it." Like when they had Undertaker lose to Brock, a TON of guys supposedly "in the know" were like "You're all just a bunch of marks! You don't get it! This way Undertaker can fight Sting next year at 'Mania and the finish will be more ambiguous since The Streak won't be a factor! Any idiot can see that's what they're doing, c'mon guys quit whining. They're working you!" And then joke's on them, not only did they NOT ever do Sting vs. Undertaker but apparently that was never seriously on the table in the first place. Taker losing to Brock literally was just a random BS idea they did just because they could. There was no "grand plan" behind it, nor is there ever for ANY of the bad decisions they make.

    They just make it up day-by-day as they go along, and when you call it out for being nonsense, you get scolded for "Not getting it." There's nothing to "get"! It's like saying the whole "Retribution" angle was garbage from the jump; some people were like, "You just don't know where they're gonna go with it, yet. They have a plan, just wait!" Uhhh... no, they didn't. Ever. At all. Obviously Bad Booking Is Bad.
    Bam Bam Bigelow was such an underrated worker. I am amazed they never gave him a run with the world title in WWF.

    As for Brock ending the Streak that was a terrible decission. It would have meant so much more to have it end by someone who needed it and made them a bigger star and have Undertaker finish up there and then instead of those other matches.

  6. #506
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Bammer always had a big mouth, wasn't friends with the right people, and could be his own worst enemy at times. That's pretty much why all of his runs in the "Big Time" companies were short. If he wasn't failing a pee test he was making somebody angry.

    Apparently his big run in 1987/88 got cut short because he blew out his knee, which wasn't really anyone's fault. But most of the locker room supposedly didn't care for him, either, because he came in with less than two years' experience and was getting a huge push. I highly doubt he would have won the WWF Title had he stuck around that time, but an Intercontinental run might've been in the cards, even if just to pass it to someone else.

    I'm not sure he actually would ever have been a good candidate for "the big belt", just for a variety of factors. He had way too many rough edges for a babyface World Champion, but as a bad guy he wasn't able to actually do all the fancy stuff he could do athletically, because "bad guys don't do flashy stuff" - this came from him to me when I asked him why he stopped doing his infamous cartwheels and whatnot; "I'm a bad guy now, kid! If I'm a babyface I'll do the cartwheels again." But also, the timing just was never quite right. No way was he getting a shot during his '87/'88 run with Hogan on top. I could see him maybe having had a run with the WWF title as a heel in 1993 or 1994 as a foil for Bret Hart - briefly - but they went with Yokozuna instead, and it's kind of obvious to see why. Bigelow was a much better worker, but if you have a 500+-lb guy on your roster and you DON'T make him the Champion, why is he even there?

    He could've been an interesting Intercontinental Champion at some point, though, for sure. A guy with that look and that much athleticism for a guy his size definitely should have had better WWF runs. But again, "Not friends with the Right People." Especially the second time around. If HBK and Co. didn't like you, you weren't going very far in 1994/95 WWF. And he pretty much buried himself by being so outspoken about not liking the way they locked up all the main event matches and deciding who they would "share" those spots with. Lots of guys felt exactly the same as Bammer, but they weren't all so loud about it. I happen to think he was right about that whole situation, but he wasn't really in any position to do anything about it, so... he got shown the door.

    I wasn't a huge ECW guy, but Bigelow seemed tailor-made for that group, especially at that exact time. His role in the Triple Threat and then with the Triad in WCW seemed pretty much perfect for him.

    Real shame he passed away when and how he did. Drugs, man. Bad for ya.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  7. #507
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Bammer always had a big mouth, wasn't friends with the right people, and could be his own worst enemy at times. That's pretty much why all of his runs in the "Big Time" companies were short. If he wasn't failing a pee test he was making somebody angry.

    Apparently his big run in 1987/88 got cut short because he blew out his knee, which wasn't really anyone's fault. But most of the locker room supposedly didn't care for him, either, because he came in with less than two years' experience and was getting a huge push. I highly doubt he would have won the WWF Title had he stuck around that time, but an Intercontinental run might've been in the cards, even if just to pass it to someone else.

    I'm not sure he actually would ever have been a good candidate for "the big belt", just for a variety of factors. He had way too many rough edges for a babyface World Champion, but as a bad guy he wasn't able to actually do all the fancy stuff he could do athletically, because "bad guys don't do flashy stuff" - this came from him to me when I asked him why he stopped doing his infamous cartwheels and whatnot; "I'm a bad guy now, kid! If I'm a babyface I'll do the cartwheels again." But also, the timing just was never quite right. No way was he getting a shot during his '87/'88 run with Hogan on top. I could see him maybe having had a run with the WWF title as a heel in 1993 or 1994 as a foil for Bret Hart - briefly - but they went with Yokozuna instead, and it's kind of obvious to see why. Bigelow was a much better worker, but if you have a 500+-lb guy on your roster and you DON'T make him the Champion, why is he even there?

    He could've been an interesting Intercontinental Champion at some point, though, for sure. A guy with that look and that much athleticism for a guy his size definitely should have had better WWF runs. But again, "Not friends with the Right People." Especially the second time around. If HBK and Co. didn't like you, you weren't going very far in 1994/95 WWF. And he pretty much buried himself by being so outspoken about not liking the way they locked up all the main event matches and deciding who they would "share" those spots with. Lots of guys felt exactly the same as Bammer, but they weren't all so loud about it. I happen to think he was right about that whole situation, but he wasn't really in any position to do anything about it, so... he got shown the door.

    I wasn't a huge ECW guy, but Bigelow seemed tailor-made for that group, especially at that exact time. His role in the Triple Threat and then with the Triad in WCW seemed pretty much perfect for him.

    Real shame he passed away when and how he did. Drugs, man. Bad for ya.
    Bigelow had a really unique look. A fued with him and Bret could have been pretty good around 94 ans 95. Even an Intercontinental title run would have been good. Especially when you think about some of the people they made IC and World champion.
    Yokozuna was pretty cool and I can understand them making him world champion.

  8. #508
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,147
    Bigelow was perfect for ECW. I think when Heyman started stiffing him in pay and he returned to WCW, it was at a much lower rate than he left with went he initially went to ECW. Him not having any friends didn't help, and when WWE bought WCW, he went to Vince at an even lower rate. All that no doubt contributed to his drug use, and then his indie work suffered.

    Guy I mentioned in another post worked with Bigelow (er, almost worked with him) when he was in his last year on earth. He showed up to the match, which was billed as sort of an ECW homecoming, with Sabu and Dreamer, and some lesser guys. He was Soma'd out, and was telling the promoter he wasn't going to do this, wasn't going to take that shot, wasn't going to put somebody over or let them get some stuff in, etc. Promoter was like, "OK Hogan, what will you do?"

    Bam says "this is what I'm gonna do" and lays down in the middle of the floor in the promoter's booth, and sleeps the rest of the night away. Wakes up after the show when everyone but the security guard is gone, and proceeds to wreck the civic center. Guard throws him out, and he ends up hitting the boys up for busfare home. He walked like 12 miles to their hotel.

    I think it was about six months later when he passed away. He definitely had some talent for a big man; he wasn't quite the same caliber as Undertaker or Big Boss Man, but he could've been.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  9. #509
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    Bigelow was perfect for ECW....He definitely had some talent for a big man; he wasn't quite the same caliber as Undertaker or Big Boss Man, but he could've been.

    He was cool in ECW.

    I liked Bossman, great worker.

  10. #510
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Ouch. Yeah, I heard a few horror stories about his final year. He never really recovered from that fire incident. By most accounts that whole year at the end of his life was something of an aberration. He used to be a much more reasonable guy, most would say.

    I saw him at a meet-and-greet right after he did the WrestlePalooza '98 PPV with New Jack, and I guess New Jack had tried to take something on him because he delighted in telling me about how that whole "Knock him goofy and then bury him under three dozen chairs" spot was basically him proving some kind of point. Super nice guy, though; he talked to me and my Dad for like a half hour even while he was signing and doing pictures with other people. He just had us basically hang out next to the table and whenever it got slow he'd be like, "So yeah, like I was sayin'..." That was cool.

    One'a my Dad's friends used to go fishing with him sometimes when he still lived up around here back in the 90s. Lotta Bammer stories up here. Seems like everybody has at least one. Most are good.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  11. #511
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,147
    That's awesome. The only wrestler I knew before starting my current job was Ivan Koloff. He lived in the same small NC town I was living in during my early twenties, and I saw him at Wal-Mart pretty much on a daily basis. He and his wife I think lived there! He was a heck of a nice guy, always put me in a bearhug. I went to his church and I used to cut his grass for him when he was away on business. I never let him pay me, so he used to give me old wrestling magazines and flyers.

    I laughed when I read his obituary, not because he died, but because they had his billed height listed as 6'1". He was all of 5'6", if that. I told him he looked 7 feet tall on TV, and he said "the camera always adds a foot or two!"

    Nowadays, one of my business associates is a former wrestler turned muckamuck cog in the corporate WWE wheel. He's given me some great stories. How long have you been wrestling, Rikki?
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  12. #512
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    I met Ivan once at a convention. Nice guy, bought an autographed copy of his book.

    Would your "associate" be Pat Buck by any chance? Just curious; we had some run-ins when I was just breaking in. Overall a nice guy, but there was some heat between the indy he started up and the one I worked for, so we had a few words at one point. I like him, I just think he was a bit more difficult about a few things than he actually needed to be, but that's neither here nor there. Happy he's doing well.

    I started training around 2009 and had my first match in August of 2010, a 6-man tag on what was actually a women's show for WSU; they rented the ring from a guy I worked for so they had him in a men's 6-man on the card as a courtesy, and I piggybacked on that. Then a week or two later I had my first singles match where I pinned Joey Janela.

    Had kind of a bad streak of luck for a while after 2015; the main guy I worked for moved to Indiana, I had a bunch of bad injuries and then the infamous "Not friends with the right people" stuff that happens to so many of us, so the last few years I've only worked sporadically. I was in the middle of a comeback with the Monster Factory when Covid hit, so that screwed THAT up. Since October I've been having ANOTHER comeback with a group I'd been trying to get in with for years (except some of the guys high-up on the card hated me, so I wasn't able to get my foot in the door until they left). Their biggest show of the year is Saturday, I'm technically booked in a Tag Title match.

    So of COURSE I woke up yesterday with a nasty sinus infection and will probably have to call off of the show. You don't know how angry I am.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  13. #513
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Lotta Bammer stories up here. Seems like everybody has at least one. Most are good.
    I recall reading a story about him I believe in the WCW magazine about him saving some people from a burning house.

  14. #514
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I met Ivan once at a convention. Nice guy, bought an autographed copy of his book.

    Would your "associate" be Pat Buck by any chance? Just curious; we had some run-ins when I was just breaking in. Overall a nice guy, but there was some heat between the indy he started up and the one I worked for, so we had a few words at one point. I like him, I just think he was a bit more difficult about a few things than he actually needed to be, but that's neither here nor there. Happy he's doing well.

    I started training around 2009 and had my first match in August of 2010, a 6-man tag on what was actually a women's show for WSU; they rented the ring from a guy I worked for so they had him in a men's 6-man on the card as a courtesy, and I piggybacked on that. Then a week or two later I had my first singles match where I pinned Joey Janela.

    Had kind of a bad streak of luck for a while after 2015; the main guy I worked for moved to Indiana, I had a bunch of bad injuries and then the infamous "Not friends with the right people" stuff that happens to so many of us, so the last few years I've only worked sporadically. I was in the middle of a comeback with the Monster Factory when Covid hit, so that screwed THAT up. Since October I've been having ANOTHER comeback with a group I'd been trying to get in with for years (except some of the guys high-up on the card hated me, so I wasn't able to get my foot in the door until they left). Their biggest show of the year is Saturday, I'm technically booked in a Tag Title match.

    So of COURSE I woke up yesterday with a nasty sinus infection and will probably have to call off of the show. You don't know how angry I am.

    Not Pat Buck. My dude was a Paul Heyman Guy from up north that went to WWE a few years back as a producer, but kicks around in Licensing now. He would've held the belt around the turn of the century. I believe he went to WCW with Bigelow, in that same group of five or six exodused guys.

    Hope that infection clears itself up man, they're no picnic. I just got over one myself.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  15. #515
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Getting there! By all accounts they had a great show, just really mad that I missed it. They're telling me we'll do the angle in May instead. Fingers crossed. If I had a dollar for every broken promise I'd gotten over the last ten years I'd have enough money to start my OWN indy fed. But so far they've taken good care of me so I'm hopeful.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  16. #516
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Kenny Omega is now the Impact/TNA Champion!

    I wouldn't be surprised if AEW bought Impact, much like WWE did with WCW.

    it's defintiely a lot of publicity though for both promotions.

  17. #517
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    3,748
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    WrestleMania IX was probably the objective worst. WM11 was pretty bad but there were a couple of matches that weren't awful. Diesel/Michaels was good.

    But WM9 really only had one good match, the Steiners/Headshrinkers match that nobody even remembers. Unless you're a HUGE Hogan fan/apologist, there was nothing about WM9 to get excited about at all.

    *I* am, so I actually liked the finish of that show. But I totally understand why most people were spitting fire over it. And altogether that just plain was a bad show.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Wrestlemania 9 was the worst of the 90's. I don't hate it but there wasn't that many good matches and the whole main event fiasco was odd.
    11 had a pretty crap main event but the rest of the show was pretty solid.
    WrestleMania IX is my second least favorite. I was a Hulkamaniac, so I didn't hate the ending but it felt weird. Hogan had that black eye and was lanky at that point (off steroids probably), so it didn't feel or look like the old Hulk Hogan. I was also way into Bret's title run there, so I felt like he got gipped.

    The outdoor crowd seemed small and the Caesar's Palace/toga party thing was very out of place compared to past Manias. The WWF was definitely on the decline there and searching for an identity.

    The Undertaker vs. Giant Gonzales was intriguing, but didn't live up to the hype. Doink vs. Crush was kind of interesting but that pretty much killed all of Crush's momentum. Tatanka vs. Shawn Michaels was probably the best match on the card to me.

    I hated WCW and it felt weird to see Jim Ross debut in the WWF. He grew on me over time obviously to become one of my favorite play-by-play guys.

    Todd Pettengill was there too, lol.

  18. #518
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    I hated WCW and it felt weird to see Jim Ross debut in the WWF....
    I never cared that much growing up about liking one more than the other. I just loved watching wrestling. Everyone knew of WWF because of the toys, video games and Hogan cartoon etc but unless you had Sky TV you couldn't watch it unless you bought some of the VHS tapes.
    WCW though was on the free channels in the late 80s and early 90s but got took off TV around 93 so I didn't get to seen anymore wrestling until late 1998 and 1999 when WWF and WCW started being shown on the free channels.
    At that time though WWF and WCW were both doing pretty awesome things so I was happy making do with WCW.

  19. #519
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    I was a big WWF in the 80s, but when Hogan jumped over in 1994 so did I. Much has been said about the jump, but I don't think enough has been said about the timing of it. WCW's programming in 1993 and 1994 was generally miles ahead of the WWF's, a few missteps aside. Some of the booking was screwy (An eternal WCW problem), but the in-ring action of WCW at that time was generally pretty great. Hogan coming in right at that moment sort of cemented their image as being the new "hot" place to be, while the WWF was stale. 1995 was an off year for both, and WCW generally suffered from the "Hogan-ization" of the promotion, but up though around 1999 or so WCW always had the better in-ring product, even during the much-hailed "Attitude" era.

    I generally couldn't stand the WWF's product from 1993 onwards. I was WCW 4-Life after that time.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  20. #520
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    2,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I was a big WWF in the 80s, but when Hogan jumped over in 1994 so did I. Much has been said about the jump, but I don't think enough has been said about the timing of it. WCW's programming in 1993 and 1994 was generally miles ahead of the WWF's, a few missteps aside. Some of the booking was screwy (An eternal WCW problem), but the in-ring action of WCW at that time was generally pretty great. Hogan coming in right at that moment sort of cemented their image as being the new "hot" place to be, while the WWF was stale. 1995 was an off year for both, and WCW generally suffered from the "Hogan-ization" of the promotion, but up though around 1999 or so WCW always had the better in-ring product, even during the much-hailed "Attitude" era.

    I generally couldn't stand the WWF's product from 1993 onwards. I was WCW 4-Life after that time.
    Overall I would completely agree with you on that. WCW definitely had the better in ring action with actual wrestling.
    Late 99 when Russo took full creative control is when WCW went terrible.

  21. #521
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Yeah, he did so much damage that even after he was ousted - twice - they could never repair the damage or regain the momentum.

    He really is the single worst thing ever to happen to professional wrestling.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  22. #522
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I was a big WWF in the 80s, but when Hogan jumped over in 1994 so did I. Much has been said about the jump, but I don't think enough has been said about the timing of it. WCW's programming in 1993 and 1994 was generally miles ahead of the WWF's, a few missteps aside. Some of the booking was screwy (An eternal WCW problem), but the in-ring action of WCW at that time was generally pretty great. Hogan coming in right at that moment sort of cemented their image as being the new "hot" place to be, while the WWF was stale. 1995 was an off year for both, and WCW generally suffered from the "Hogan-ization" of the promotion, but up though around 1999 or so WCW always had the better in-ring product, even during the much-hailed "Attitude" era.

    I generally couldn't stand the WWF's product from 1993 onwards. I was WCW 4-Life after that time.

    Bouncing between Europe and the US as a kid, the only American wrestling I had over there was WWF. So when we returned to the States, it was what I continued watching. I recall getting away from WWF in favor of Literally Anything Else, which meant WCW and the early days of Smoky Mountain. WCW lost me when I tuned in once and saw Robocop make a run in.

    Smoky Mountain lost me because it was always changing timeslots. I also could only get it if I unhooked the cable box and plugged in the antenna and crossed my fingers and recited a chant. You want to talk about mad? Imagine doing all that several weeks in a row and not seeing any wrestling, just some local tv preacher, and then finally getting Smoky Mountain one day, and they have some guy dressed as a Ninja Turtle. I almost kicked a hole in the wall.

    If you want to witness firsthand the tv preacher that was always in a constant timeslot battle with Smoky Mountain wrestling on a rural North Carolina UHF station during the early nineties, search for "Rev. Billy Locklear: Saydum Done Lied To You" on youtube.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  23. #523
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Haha, I could see that Robocop incident being a turn-off point for anyone checking out WCW and wasn't already familiar or entrenched. That was bad, but it wasn't like that kinda thing happened ALL the time, at least. It wouldn't be the last dumb thing they did like that - the 1993 mini-movies, the Dungeon of Doom, Chucky from Child's Play making a cameo to yell at Rick Steiner - but for every moment like that, you had a countering moment featuring The Hollywood Blondes, Savage vs. Flair, or Benoit vs. Raven during the same period of time to show just how incredible the company could be when they gave a crap.

    I had an early anti-WCW bias early on, myself, back in the early-90s when Hogan was still in the WWF. I never knew when WCW was on, so I'd only catch it on a rare Clash of the Champions or something, usually, and it always seemed like I'd only get "lucky" enough to catch it when something screwy was going on. Like the Sting vs. Black Scorpion feud, particularly the time when Scorpion turned someone from the audience into a tiger. Or the debut of Oz, that was particularly lame. Little did I know that guy I was rolling my eyes at with the dollar-store wizard get-up and the silver spray paint in his hair would end up being one of my all-time favorites (and super nice guy) Kevin Nash.

    That's why I wasn't initially thrilled when Hogan jumped, because in my mind it was a huge step down. But then I actually watched some of WCW's contemporary shows of that time, as well as some of the stuff from the 80s NWA and early-90s WCW that was actually GOOD, and as reluctant as I was to admit it, I had to grudgingly admit that while the WWF had always had the better production values, not only was WCW the better wrestling product, it had ALWAYS been the better wrestling product and I just wasn't aware of it because all I'd ever seen was the nonsense. I felt like an idiot for being so entranced by stuff like the Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes feud as a kid, while Tully Blanchard and Magnum TA were putting on clinics like the "I Quit" Steel Cage Match (which if anyone hasn't seen, they need to watch immediately). And then in the early-90s while the WWF was doing silly crap like The Mountie and the Beverly brothers beating jobbers in squash matches, and then filling time with bad matches on PPVs, WCW was showing off Pillman vs. Liger and the rise of the Steiner Bros. There just was almost NOTHING on WWF shows that could match the in-ring of the NWA and WCW, except for the occasional really awesome main event match.

    I still like to watch a lot of the WWF stuff from when I was a kid - it's what I grew up on, after all, and some of my favorite guys came from that company and that era - but when I finally did get to see for myself what the NWA and WCW was REALLY all about, it was like going from black & white to color for the first time. I'm from NJ, so saying you preferred WCW to the WWF up here was practically a felony, but that did little to change my opinion at all. I even managed to convert quite a few of my friends, too, which was always satisfying. They'd always come in like "WCW? Isn't that, like, the dollar store WWF?" at first, but a few Pillman, Vader and Benoit matches ALWAYS put a stop to that stuff very, very fast.

    Regretfully, we never had Smokey Mountain or the USWA up here so I could only follow them through Pro Wrestling Illustrated, which I read religiously back then. I became a lifelong Jeff Jarrett fan more from reading about his exploits Down South than I did from watching his watered-down WWF runs, which I didn't much care for. He's also a very nice guy, by the way.
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  24. #524
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,147
    I also had a bias against WCW early on, and it was all down to production values. WWF was being shot on film, and it looked slick. WCW was being shot on VHS, and it looked like a cheap soap opera. But I tuned in one night because I was flipping through the channels and saw The Undertaker, who had just debuted in the WWF. Except he wasn't the Undertaker here, he was Mean Mark Callous and he was on WCW jobbing out on a tag match. This would've been ~1991 so I don't know if he was still working other promotions or if it was an older match, but it was damn good. I pretty much abandoned WWF after that.

    For another two years, I tuned in occasionally to WWF, WCW and SMPW (and we also had some local NWA broadcast that may have been a Jim Crockett production; they mostly showed local matches filmed at the civic center or old 80's Stampede matches). But I no longer felt compelled to save my allowance money up for PPV matches. I'd always sort of known wrestling was choreographed, but when they started doing the clearly fantastical stuff like the Robocop and Gobbledygooker, it took me out of the matches surrounding it. I believe the very last match I watched in the 1990s was whenever Hulk bodyslammed Yokozuna. I didn't watch another match until long after WWF became WWE and had absorbed ECW and WCW.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  25. #525
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    427
    Hogan never actually got to slam Yokozuna. Lex did, right after Hogan left - kind of a middle finger to Hogan on his way out the door - but Hogan had only ever tried and failed during the King of the Ring '93 match.

    Yeah, WCW's junk production values in the 80s and 90s were legendary. You could lose your voice trying to explain to people "No, this company ACTUALLY has a LOT more money to spend than the WWF, they're part of a gigantic multimedia conglomerate". They just steadfastly refused to put any money into their TV production for the longest time until Bischoff got involved. People can say a lot of Good and Bad about his tenure, but one of his first sweeping changes was a complete overhaul of their TV production, which did a world of good.

    It's funny, I was just the other day reading about the WWF's early-80s TV shows and how they weren't so hot themselves. If you go back and look at everything up through about 1986, it was all a very basic two-camera, point-and-shoot setup using whatever light and sound equipment the arenas had on hand, and it didn't always look or sound very good at all. But when they signed the contract with NBC for Saturday Night's Main Event, one of the key terms of the deal that D!ck Ebersol insisted upon was that the show NOT look or sound like crap, that they were going to use NBC's production staff and equipment to make everything as slick and glossy as it possibly could be. When that show debuted, it was inarguably the best-produced wrestling show ever seen on TV, and within about a year the WWF had adopted that exact same style for ALL of their TV shows and PPVs. They actually hired a dedicated production staff, went out and bought their own sound, lighting and camera equipment that was on par with the NBC stuff, so that even a C-level show in Podunk, Nowhere that was going to be broadcast on Sunday morning syndication looked every bit as dynamic as a PPV. That was a huge turning point, for them.

    Even in the 90s, WCW never caught up to that; they definitely got a lot better with the physical presentation from 1993-onward but by then the WWF was too far ahead and kept adapting and evolving the product every year, whereas WCW always stayed pretty much the same after the 1993 production revamp. Even when WCW's product was objectively better, the WWF's always LOOKED better. There's definitely no arguing that.

    One thing that always annoyed me about WCW, was that the theme music was always so low in the audio mix. Or that even well into the late-90s, some guys just plain didn't have theme music, even top-level guys like The Giant. Those things always gave them a very cheap, second-rate feel. By that point not only was music a huge part of the experience, but if you watched a WWF show it was always a huge deal when a guy's music hit, and it would be really prominent on TV, more than the announcers sometimes. On WCW it was always in the background, way too low, and often had some kind of weird distortion that made it not come in clear.

    I pretty much stopped being a "fan" of wrestling when WCW went out of business. I knew the WWF would screw up the whole merger, and they did, in legendary fashion. Not that WCW after 1999 was very good anyway, but most of the guys I liked went away, and I just never cared for the way WWF presented its product. I dipped in and out whenever Hogan came back, and then when Benoit had his short-lived Title run, but I was pretty much done after 2001 and only kept into it as a rabid fan of the video games and collecting the action figures. Even now, it's very hard for me to actually WATCH wrestling, outside of the stuff from when I was a kid through 2001 or so. Anything after that I have to be in the mood for.

    I really only got into doing independent wrestling kind of by accident, long after I'd given up on it ever happening. Go figure!
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •