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Thread: Official Catch-All Pro-Wrestling Thread.

  1. #476
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Anyone watch Wrestlemania 37?

  2. #477
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    I didn't. I don't have Peacock TV (or whatever it's called). I did have the WWE Network.

    The way Jim Cornette describes the control system it's crap. So I'm leery of getting it. It sounds like once you start something up you have to watch it from beginning to end. No pause. No rewind.

    For me it's not a price thing, content thing, content sensoring thing it's a how view it thing. Playback? Playability? Not sure the word.

    I am subscribed to the WWE youtube channel and have a decent idea of what happened.

    NBC/Universal/NBC Universal is kind of dropping the ball with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Anyone watch Wrestlemania 37?

  3. #478
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midor View Post
    I didn't. I don't have Peacock TV (or whatever it's called). I did have the WWE Network.

    The way Jim Cornette describes the control system it's crap. So I'm leery of getting it. It sounds like once you start something up you have to watch it from beginning to end. No pause. No rewind.

    For me it's not a price thing, content thing, content sensoring thing it's a how view it thing. Playback? Playability? Not sure the word.

    I am subscribed to the WWE youtube channel and have a decent idea of what happened.

    NBC/Universal/NBC Universal is kind of dropping the ball with it.
    I just watched the highlights on YouTube. Some people always post them not long after the show.

    No interest in subscribing to Peacock or the Network etc.

    Seemed a good enough show with the exception of two or three matches.

  4. #479
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    I had the WWE Network in order to screen a bunch of classic material. Unfortunately a lot of stuff is edited or just not there, and I cancelled after a month. I'd rather see the original unedited stuff on Youtube or Daily Motion. Quality is hit and miss, but Chris Benoit and Jimmy Snuka still exist outside of the Network.
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  5. #480
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I still collect DVDs, and this Peacock censorship situation really sent prices through the roof recently. I bought a few things right before that all happened, and now after the announcement that they're gonna be cutting content off the Peacock version of the Network, some of that stuff is going for twice what I paid for it, only a few weeks later.

    Meanwhile, this is WHY I still collect DVDs, and why I still have my old WWF and WCW VHS tapes in storage. People are always scolding me for it, like "Man, streaming is where it's at," and I'm like "You might be paying for that stuff, but you don't own it."
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  6. #481
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    I watched Wrestlemania. I thought night 1 was better than night 2. Cesaro vs. Seth Rollins may have been my favorite match. I think too many heels won overall. I did the 4 months for 10 dollars for the Peacock. I may renew for 1 more month to get Summerslam, but then not renew again until the Royal Rumble. I haven't really found anything else interesting on the premium Peacock. I guess if you like old shows like The Office, it might be worth it, but the original content seems weak. I also don't like the editing of WWE content.

  7. #482
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    I watched Wrestlemania. I thought night 1 was better than night 2. Cesaro vs. Seth Rollins may have been my favorite match. I think too many heels won overall. I did the 4 months for 10 dollars for the Peacock. I may renew for 1 more month to get Summerslam, but then not renew again until the Royal Rumble. I haven't really found anything else interesting on the premium Peacock. I guess if you like old shows like The Office, it might be worth it, but the original content seems weak. I also don't like the editing of WWE content.
    I don't really like the show doing two nights. Rollins and Cesaro was really good, it's cool they finally seem to be giving Cesaro a main event push, been a fan of his since back when he started in ROH. I also quite liked Asuka vs Ripley although I think Asuka should have won that...like her watch with Flair.
    My least favourite match was the pointless Shane McMahon and Braun....just a complete waste of time.
    Both night main events were very good though.
    If they had axed a few matches and done the show on one night it would have been a solid show.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Meanwhile, this is WHY I still collect DVDs, and why I still have my old WWF and WCW VHS tapes in storage. People are always scolding me for it, like "Man, streaming is where it's at," and I'm like "You might be paying for that stuff, but you don't own it."
    I foolishly sold off all my wrestling VHS tapes and DVDs.

  8. #483
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    I'm a long time WWF/WWE fan who is currently on hiatus the last few years. The shows were a bit tedious to keep up with, and the booking got pretty stale. Having no normal audience is also strange, though I understand it isn't WWE's fault.



    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    I had the WWE Network in order to screen a bunch of classic material. Unfortunately a lot of stuff is edited or just not there, and I cancelled after a month. I'd rather see the original unedited stuff on Youtube or Daily Motion. Quality is hit and miss, but Chris Benoit and Jimmy Snuka still exist outside of the Network.
    Wow, they took out all Jimmy Snuka references? The Nancy Argentino situation was very unfortunate and Snuka probably contributed to it, but he was never convicted to my memory.

    I am also thankful for old WWF shows on YouTube. I like when the acronym WWF isn't edited out, and it's fun to see those old house show promos and vintage commercials!


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I still collect DVDs, and this Peacock censorship situation really sent prices through the roof recently. I bought a few things right before that all happened, and now after the announcement that they're gonna be cutting content off the Peacock version of the Network, some of that stuff is going for twice what I paid for it, only a few weeks later.

    Meanwhile, this is WHY I still collect DVDs, and why I still have my old WWF and WCW VHS tapes in storage. People are always scolding me for it, like "Man, streaming is where it's at," and I'm like "You might be paying for that stuff, but you don't own it."
    I didn't realize that about the current WWE DVD market. Yes, it's still nice to have that content for yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    I watched Wrestlemania. I thought night 1 was better than night 2. Cesaro vs. Seth Rollins may have been my favorite match. I think too many heels won overall. I did the 4 months for 10 dollars for the Peacock. I may renew for 1 more month to get Summerslam, but then not renew again until the Royal Rumble. I haven't really found anything else interesting on the premium Peacock. I guess if you like old shows like The Office, it might be worth it, but the original content seems weak. I also don't like the editing of WWE content.
    I also got that Peacock offer and scanned their library. Pretty terrible unless you're a big Punky Brewster or Office fan, lol. I passed on it but it's a decent deal for WWE alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I don't really like the show doing two nights. Rollins and Cesaro was really good, it's cool they finally seem to be giving Cesaro a main event push, been a fan of his since back when he started in ROH. I also quite liked Asuka vs Ripley although I think Asuka should have won that...like her watch with Flair.
    My least favourite match was the pointless Shane McMahon and Braun....just a complete waste of time.
    Both night main events were very good though.
    If they had axed a few matches and done the show on one night it would have been a solid show.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I foolishly sold off all my wrestling VHS tapes and DVDs.
    The last WrestleMania I watched ended up being like 7 or 8 hours altogether, so the split nights isn't a bad idea in my opinion.

    I foolishly threw out all my taped PPVs from childhood and Raw and SmackDowns from the late 90's. I started rebuilding when I started eBay, and got several old WWF Coliseum Home Videos and DVD releases. I also had WWE 24/7 which I recorded all the old WWF Prime Time Wrestling, TNT, MSG and such "house shows", etc... that I could. Some of those were edited, especially without the "F", but passable.

  9. #484
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    The last WrestleMania I watched ended up being like 7 or 8 hours altogether, so the split nights isn't a bad idea in my opinion.
    I recall one Wrestlemania two or three years ago being really long. Again there was a lot of useless crap on the show that wasn't need much ike some of the stuff this year and last.
    No wrestling PPV needs to be any longer than 3-4 hours maximum.

  10. #485
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I recall one Wrestlemania two or three years ago being really long. Again there was a lot of useless crap on the show that wasn't need much ike some of the stuff this year and last.
    No wrestling PPV needs to be any longer than 3-4 hours maximum.
    I agree with that on the length. I think it's good they want to feature lots of performers who deserve that spot, but some of the matches are way too long with fluff in between. There were a few WrestleManias that hit 6, 7, or more hours in prior years. With the pre-show starting at 4:00PM and matches sprinkled in starting around 5:00PM, and it ends at 11:00PM or 12:00AM, it's a lot. I think the Undertaker vs. Reigns main event went past midnight, as did the Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte vs. Rousey one.

    I miss the old days when I started watching wrestling. WrestleMania 7 had fourteen matches and was around 3 hours! Some quick matches have to happen for that, but that was sufficient for me. I don't need 10 minute or more matches the entire PPV.

  11. #486
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    I agree with that on the length. I think it's good they want to feature lots of performers who deserve that spot, but some of the matches are way too long with fluff in between. There were a few WrestleManias that hit 6, 7, or more hours in prior years. With the pre-show starting at 4:00PM and matches sprinkled in starting around 5:00PM, and it ends at 11:00PM or 12:00AM, it's a lot. I think the Undertaker vs. Reigns main event went past midnight, as did the Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte vs. Rousey one.

    I miss the old days when I started watching wrestling. WrestleMania 7 had fourteen matches and was around 3 hours! Some quick matches have to happen for that, but that was sufficient for me. I don't need 10 minute or more matches the entire PPV.
    I think the first Wrestlemania I seen was a VHS I bought of 14 or 6 that I rented.
    It's nice having a variety of different matches on the show, not every match needs to be a near hour 5* epic.

    If I am not mistaken the Wrestlemania you are talking about with Lynch, Flair and Rousey was really long and the pre show had those two battle royals.
    That triple threat should have been a 4 way with Asuka included instead of her having to drop the title to Charlotte a week or two before the event. Although I do understand why they had to add another actual wrestler in the match for Becky to work with as Rhonda's ring skills were very limited to be in a main event. Granted though she was more skilled than Lawrence Taylor to be in a main event.

  12. #487
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    If they want to do one night again, they need to stick to around 8 to 9 matches on the main card (something like a tag title match can be a four way) and have a 1 hour pre-show with the two battle royals with a few bigger names. Not everyone needs to be on the card, particularly people that haven't wrestled on tv or just the Main Event over the last 6 months. The Andre the Giant battle royal this year that was on Smackdown was quite pathetic even by its low standards and wouldn't have been worthy for the main card or pre-show even.

  13. #488
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    If they want to do one night again, they need to stick to around 8 to 9 matches on the main card (something like a tag title match can be a four way) and have a 1 hour pre-show with the two battle royals with a few bigger names. Not everyone needs to be on the card, particularly people that haven't wrestled on tv or just the Main Event over the last 6 months. The Andre the Giant battle royal this year that was on Smackdown was quite pathetic even by its low standards and wouldn't have been worthy for the main card or pre-show even.
    At least this year there was only one part timer that had a wrestling match being Shane McMahon...although that is being generous calling him a part timer as he was never a full time wrestler...or even a real wrestler.

  14. #489
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post

    Wow, they took out all Jimmy Snuka references? The Nancy Argentino situation was very unfortunate and Snuka probably contributed to it, but he was never convicted to my memory.

    I am also thankful for old WWF shows on YouTube. I like when the acronym WWF isn't edited out, and it's fun to see those old house show promos and vintage commercials!

    I'm unsure if the Snuka stuff is still taboo. When I had my trial subscription, he had just been charged, and WWE removed all traces of him from the network and their website. The Hogan controversy was around the same time, and they removed all Hogan-centric non-match material (his promos, interviews).

    There seems to be three levels of blacklisting in WWE. There's Tier 1, the post-scandal Hulk tier, where your wrestling matches are fine, but any ancillary material is removed. Tier 2, the Snuka tier, is when your solo matches and promos are removed, but if you made a minor appearance in the Royal Rumble or as a tag partner, they let that slide. Then there's Tier 3, the Benoit tier, where there's no trace of you anywhere. All references to you are removed, and your name or likeness is nowhere to be found.

    In Snuka's case, he was never convicted, as he was ruled incompetent to stand trial. I think the clincher was when an independent doctor informed the judge that he probably had less than a year to live, so he never faced justice in this life (if he purposely killed her; I believe he did.) There's eyewitness testimony that Vince McMahon bought his freedom, and Snuka said for years that Vince walked into the precinct with a suitcase, disappeared with the police captain, and five minutes later walked out with Snuka. Jimmy said "Vince, you forgot your suitcase," and he replied "I wish I could forget it. There's a half a million reasons I wish I could forget it," implying he bribed the investigators with a half a million bucks. So if there's any truth to that, maybe Vince felt guilty or responsible or just didn't want to answer any questions about why Snuka was still on the air, so he pulled his matches.

    I can separate the art from the artist in most cases. I still have my Bill Cosby records. I still enjoy seeing Snuka fly off the top rope. I still enjoy seeing Chris Benoit performing a mandible claw. Kevin Spacey made some excellent films. I'm not going to burn my Blu-Ray of the '87 Masters of the Universe film because Gary Goddard ended up being a sleaze. I can understand when people feel compelled to scorch the earth when their favorite celebrity falls from grace, but if I destroyed every book, album or movie I enjoy because the writer or performer was a terrible human, I'd have very little media left to enjoy.
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  15. #490
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    I'm unsure if the Snuka stuff is still taboo. When I had my trial subscription, he had just been charged, and WWE removed all traces of him from the network and their website. The Hogan controversy was around the same time, and they removed all Hogan-centric non-match material (his promos, interviews).

    There seems to be three levels of blacklisting in WWE. There's Tier 1, the post-scandal Hulk tier, where your wrestling matches are fine, but any ancillary material is removed. Tier 2, the Snuka tier, is when your solo matches and promos are removed, but if you made a minor appearance in the Royal Rumble or as a tag partner, they let that slide. Then there's Tier 3, the Benoit tier, where there's no trace of you anywhere. All references to you are removed, and your name or likeness is nowhere to be found.

    In Snuka's case, he was never convicted, as he was ruled incompetent to stand trial. I think the clincher was when an independent doctor informed the judge that he probably had less than a year to live, so he never faced justice in this life (if he purposely killed her; I believe he did.) There's eyewitness testimony that Vince McMahon bought his freedom, and Snuka said for years that Vince walked into the precinct with a suitcase, disappeared with the police captain, and five minutes later walked out with Snuka. Jimmy said "Vince, you forgot your suitcase," and he replied "I wish I could forget it. There's a half a million reasons I wish I could forget it," implying he bribed the investigators with a half a million bucks. So if there's any truth to that, maybe Vince felt guilty or responsible or just didn't want to answer any questions about why Snuka was still on the air, so he pulled his matches.

    I can separate the art from the artist in most cases. I still have my Bill Cosby records. I still enjoy seeing Snuka fly off the top rope. I still enjoy seeing Chris Benoit performing a mandible claw. Kevin Spacey made some excellent films. I'm not going to burn my Blu-Ray of the '87 Masters of the Universe film because Gary Goddard ended up being a sleaze. I can understand when people feel compelled to scorch the earth when their favorite celebrity falls from grace, but if I destroyed every book, album or movie I enjoy because the writer or performer was a terrible human, I'd have very little media left to enjoy.
    I am not keen on all this editing of mtches and the Hall of Fame. If you look at a lot of people in the Hall of Fame a lot of them have made some...questionable decissions.

    They mentioned Snuka during Wrestlemania when Tamina did a top rope splash.
    Snuka was a good wrestler but a bit of a strange character in real life. Just the other week it was revealed that he was also married to Gino Hernandez's mother while he was still married.
    Personally I think he was involved in killing her either on purpose or accidently.

    Speaking of wrestling scandals, season 3 of Dark Side of the Ring starts next month with an episode about Brian Pillman.

  16. #491
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    blah blah blah blah filler text.



  17. #492
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I don't know how the Peacock version of the Network will handle Benoit but he's been all over the "regular" version of the Network since its inception. On some of the Nitro and PPV shows they run a disclaimer beforehand - I forget what it says, I never pay attention to it - but all of his stuff has always been on there. I think the old "WWE 24/7" on-demand service used to cut around him but the actual WWE Network didn't. A lot of his matches were also released on various "Best of WCW" DVDs, they just don't ever advertise him on the box.

    Benoit's a very controversial figure in the business among a lot of people, obviously. He was my favorite wrestler at one point, and what he did hit me especially hard. I can understand it, kind of, but there's strong evidence to suggest that he was always kind of a "broken" person. There's a great book titled "Ring of Hell" by Matthew Randazzo that goes very deep into the tragedy and Benoit's entire life and career, and while the fact that he had sever brain trauma by the end of his life is definitely a mitigating circumstance, he may have always been a little bit "off". For example, as a child he was a fan of the Dynamite Kid to the point of worship, despite the fact that Kid was at that time one of the biggest heels in the business, AND by all accounts a terribly rotten human being. So it's like, "If THIS guy is your Role Model, you maybe have a screw loose to start with". And even after he grew up and started working with Dynamite in Stampede, seeing firsthand what a horrible person he was, he only doubled-down on his worship of the guy, which shows supremely bad judgment. He also adopted a lot of Kid's lesser traits like hazing rookies and just plain being an all-around nasty person to anyone he felt hadn't "earned respect". Mocking people in the locker room for crying at the news of a dead relative, things like that. These are signs that Chris was a "warped" person long before the brain trauma. He maybe wasn't an altogether "bad" person, and indeed there are a lot of stories from his peers that say he was instead just "intense". But he definitely had questionable values.

    I mean, he had several chances to walk away from wrestling once he started getting hurt, and he steadfastly refused. His father in particular repeatedly begged him to quit after he broke his neck, but instead Chris just doubled- and tripled-down on the steroids and painkillers and alcohol, not only to wrestle but simply to function. He was wolfing down double-digit doses of opiates with alcohol every single day for the last several months of his life, despite his wife and family begging him to retire from in-ring performing, because he had such an unhealthy obsession with being "the best in the world" at a fake sport where nothing is based on merit to begin with. Vince had allegedly offered him a spot as a trainer to help him transition away from performing shortly before the tragedy, and Chris allegedly took this as a huge insult and spiraled into a deep depression. If he'd had better values, he and his family might still be alive.

    I loved Chris Benoit, and he's possibly the greatest in-ring performer there ever was. And I can definitely understand how brain damage and drug addiction played a huge role in what he did. I empathize, but I can't let that be an excuse. He ALWAYS had bad values, he always made poor choices, and he always just plain wanted the wrong things out of life, going all the way back to his childhood. He was obsessed with the wrestling business to an unhealthy degree even back then, and in the end it was that obsession that got three people killed.

    I used to be equally obsessed, until he did what he did. That's sort of when I fell out of "love" with the wrestling business, and it stopped being an obsession and just "entertainment" and then a side job. The fact is a LOT of people in the business have such an obsession with it, to the point where they live in a "wrestling bubble" and barely have any connection to Real Life. That's unhealthy. What I would hope is that at least some people took the right lessons from the Benoit tragedy, and know better than to let pro wrestling be their entire reason for living.

    I can still watch his matches, but it's tough sometimes. I inevitably think about what he did, and then I just get really, really mad.
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  18. #493
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    "a terribly rotten human being."

    I think that might be an understatement when it comes to Dynamite.

    I agree with pretty much everything else you said. I do think that part of the problem is that wrestling got it's start as a scumbag carney business and in many ways still is. The kind behaviour that is frankly horrible and wouldn't be accepted in any other form of work, was not only allowed but encouraged. When it comes to the Dynamites and Benoits of the world. They are certainly the worst and most extreme cases, but they were in many ways products of an environment that taught, encourage and rewarded such behaviour.

  19. #494
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I don't know how the Peacock version of the Network will handle Benoit but he's been all over the "regular" version of the Network since its inception. On some of the Nitro and PPV shows they run a disclaimer beforehand - I forget what it says, I never pay attention to it - but all of his stuff has always been on there. I think the old "WWE 24/7" on-demand service used to cut around him but the actual WWE Network didn't. A lot of his matches were also released on various "Best of WCW" DVDs, they just don't ever advertise him on the box.

    Benoit's a very controversial figure in the business among a lot of people, obviously. He was my favorite wrestler at one point, and what he did hit me especially hard. I can understand it, kind of, but there's strong evidence to suggest that he was always kind of a "broken" person. There's a great book titled "Ring of Hell" by Matthew Randazzo that goes very deep into the tragedy and Benoit's entire life and career, and while the fact that he had sever brain trauma by the end of his life is definitely a mitigating circumstance, he may have always been a little bit "off". For example, as a child he was a fan of the Dynamite Kid to the point of worship, despite the fact that Kid was at that time one of the biggest heels in the business, AND by all accounts a terribly rotten human being. So it's like, "If THIS guy is your Role Model, you maybe have a screw loose to start with". And even after he grew up and started working with Dynamite in Stampede, seeing firsthand what a horrible person he was, he only doubled-down on his worship of the guy, which shows supremely bad judgment. He also adopted a lot of Kid's lesser traits like hazing rookies and just plain being an all-around nasty person to anyone he felt hadn't "earned respect". Mocking people in the locker room for crying at the news of a dead relative, things like that. These are signs that Chris was a "warped" person long before the brain trauma. He maybe wasn't an altogether "bad" person, and indeed there are a lot of stories from his peers that say he was instead just "intense". But he definitely had questionable values.

    I mean, he had several chances to walk away from wrestling once he started getting hurt, and he steadfastly refused. His father in particular repeatedly begged him to quit after he broke his neck, but instead Chris just doubled- and tripled-down on the steroids and painkillers and alcohol, not only to wrestle but simply to function. He was wolfing down double-digit doses of opiates with alcohol every single day for the last several months of his life, despite his wife and family begging him to retire from in-ring performing, because he had such an unhealthy obsession with being "the best in the world" at a fake sport where nothing is based on merit to begin with. Vince had allegedly offered him a spot as a trainer to help him transition away from performing shortly before the tragedy, and Chris allegedly took this as a huge insult and spiraled into a deep depression. If he'd had better values, he and his family might still be alive.

    I loved Chris Benoit, and he's possibly the greatest in-ring performer there ever was. And I can definitely understand how brain damage and drug addiction played a huge role in what he did. I empathize, but I can't let that be an excuse. He ALWAYS had bad values, he always made poor choices, and he always just plain wanted the wrong things out of life, going all the way back to his childhood. He was obsessed with the wrestling business to an unhealthy degree even back then, and in the end it was that obsession that got three people killed.

    I used to be equally obsessed, until he did what he did. That's sort of when I fell out of "love" with the wrestling business, and it stopped being an obsession and just "entertainment" and then a side job. The fact is a LOT of people in the business have such an obsession with it, to the point where they live in a "wrestling bubble" and barely have any connection to Real Life. That's unhealthy. What I would hope is that at least some people took the right lessons from the Benoit tragedy, and know better than to let pro wrestling be their entire reason for living.

    I can still watch his matches, but it's tough sometimes. I inevitably think about what he did, and then I just get really, really mad.

    I don't remember if I had 24/7 or the Network, but I distinctly remember Benoit being scrubbed. The Royal Rumble archives skipped from 2003 to 2005. The Summer Slam title match between him and Randy Orton was also missing. Knowing his Network stuff is unedited now, I may give it another spin.

    Benoit was one of the greatest performers to grace the ring. He definitely had something wrong in his brain long before the concussions and drug abuse amplified it. I was talking to someone who worked with him back in the nineties, and he called Benoit "Jeckyll and Hyde."

    He said the first time he met him, somewhere in the Catskills, he walked into the locker room and being a rookie, introduced himself and did the old "I'm a humble noob who is honored to work with you all and appreciate the shot; you guys tell me what you want from me and we'll do it like you call it," and Chris Benoit was very accommodating and polite, and gave him some pointers. "Nicest, no ego guy you could meet."

    Six months later, they're in the same venue and he walks up to Benoit and says he's glad to see him again, and thanks for the advice he gave him last time, and----- BAM! Benoit has him pinned up against the wall, screaming at him, spit flying in his face, incoherent rage, and every vein in his face bulging. Now, this guy wasn't a pushover (he's built kind of like Sabu) and stood a foot taller than Benoit, but he said his life literally flashed in front of his eyes, thinking he was about to be murdered. New Jack (of all people) separates the two of them and talks Benoit down. Guy said he never, to this day, knew what set Benoit off, but he consciously avoided him after that. And this was years before he did what he did.

    I often think back to Unrepentant Sinner: the Autobiography of Col. Charles Askins in which he describes actually murdering people under the guise of war, and remarks that had he not been allowed to kill people as a Border Patrol agent or as a soldier, he would have most definitely been a serial killer, or a mass murderer like Charles Whitman. I think Benoit was cut from the same cloth; wrestling was the only thing he found that took his mind off the uncontrollable rage he felt, and when it looked like that was about to go away, he no longer could contain his demon.
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  20. #495
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's a real shame but some people just have a head full of bad wiring. I think Benoit was definitely one of those people.
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  21. #496
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    I don't remember if I had 24/7 or the Network, but I distinctly remember Benoit being scrubbed. The Royal Rumble archives skipped from 2003 to 2005. The Summer Slam title match between him and Randy Orton was also missing. Knowing his Network stuff is unedited now, I may give it another spin.

    Benoit was one of the greatest performers to grace the ring. He definitely had something wrong in his brain long before the concussions and drug abuse amplified it. I was talking to someone who worked with him back in the nineties, and he called Benoit "Jeckyll and Hyde."

    He said the first time he met him, somewhere in the Catskills, he walked into the locker room and being a rookie, introduced himself and did the old "I'm a humble noob who is honored to work with you all and appreciate the shot; you guys tell me what you want from me and we'll do it like you call it," and Chris Benoit was very accommodating and polite, and gave him some pointers. "Nicest, no ego guy you could meet."

    Six months later, they're in the same venue and he walks up to Benoit and says he's glad to see him again, and thanks for the advice he gave him last time, and----- BAM! Benoit has him pinned up against the wall, screaming at him, spit flying in his face, incoherent rage, and every vein in his face bulging. Now, this guy wasn't a pushover (he's built kind of like Sabu) and stood a foot taller than Benoit, but he said his life literally flashed in front of his eyes, thinking he was about to be murdered. New Jack (of all people) separates the two of them and talks Benoit down. Guy said he never, to this day, knew what set Benoit off, but he consciously avoided him after that. And this was years before he did what he did.

    I often think back to Unrepentant Sinner: the Autobiography of Col. Charles Askins in which he describes actually murdering people under the guise of war, and remarks that had he not been allowed to kill people as a Border Patrol agent or as a soldier, he would have most definitely been a serial killer, or a mass murderer like Charles Whitman. I think Benoit was cut from the same cloth; wrestling was the only thing he found that took his mind off the uncontrollable rage he felt, and when it looked like that was about to go away, he no longer could contain his demon.
    Roid rage. Benoit was heavily into steroids when he was in high school before he got into wrestling.

    It's a real shame the whole wrestling industry has so much drug use. Refgardless of WWE saying they monitor talents drug use there are "exceptions" and ways a lot of the talent get around it as a lot of the male stars are still using a lot of steroids.

  22. #497
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    What happened to Benoit most likely had nothing at all to do with his steroid regiment.

    Controversial Statement coming up, from someone who's worked in both the fitness AND pro wrestling industries for about 10 years:

    Modern science (and anecdotal evidence) points to "'Roid Rage" being a myth.

    Now, upfront, let me say that I am 100% against steroids and I think people shouldn't take them. There's an entire book's worth of information about all the proven, real-life and very serious problems they cause and contribute to, like joint degeneration, several types of cancer, and heart disease. They take a lot of years off of your life and there's no getting around that. They're awful for you, and people shouldn't do them.

    However, given the jobs I've had it's unavoidable that I'd end up knowing and working with a lot of people who have a ton more firsthand experience with steroids than I do. And the fact is that while I've worked with thousands of people in both the fitness and wrestling industries, and hundreds of those people absolutely were on "something" to get the look that they have, not one person I've ever met in either industry has a single story about anyone exhibiting any type of "Roid Rage". Point of fact, several of the guys who I "assume" are the heaviest steroid users are also in turn some of the most genteel and soft-spoken individuals you'd ever meet.

    I think where the "Roid Rage" myth comes from, is that people who lift seriously tend to be a bit more "intense" and high strung than some people, depending on the circumstance. And people who have a lot of testosterone pumping through them can sometimes be a bit "moody" in general. And when those kinds of people lose their temper, it certainly can be a sight, because they're very intimidating people. But there just isn't any hard evidence to suggest that people taking steroids "rage" any more than anyone else. In fact, it turns out that in a LOT of the older studies from the 70s and 80s that were used to suggest "Roid Rage", a lot of the subjects were most likely taking stimulants like amphetamines, as well, which DO have a proven history of causing rages and violence.

    No, what did Chris Benoit in was his drug addiction, possibly even more than his brain trauma. He was taking about four or five dozen pain pills every single day for years; enough, frankly, to kill a normal person (but something that was mitigated by his body mass and high tolerance). Opiate painkillers cause MASSIVE and dangerous mood swings, especially when taken 1. In excessive amount, and 2. With alcohol. No steroids necessary, people hooked on pain pills to the degree Benoit was are incredibly dangerous to be around no matter who they are. He was also notoriously fond of GHB, primarily for its fat-burning qualities, but in heavy users it can cause delusions, memory loss, and hallucinations, especially when mixed with other drugs and/or alcohol. Point of fact, a search of Benoit's personal computer found that shortly after the murders he was on the internet researching a Bible story about someone raising a young boy from the dead; this has led some people to speculate that Benoit may have even been hallucinating or "entranced" when he committed one or both of the murders, and "snapped out of it" afterward. It may sound crazy, but with the type and especially the amount of drugs in his system at the time, it's entirely plausible. Stranger things have been known to happen.

    Again, I'm not going to defend steroid abuse, ever. And obviously the mainstream media ran with "Roid Rage" as the headline after the Benoit incident because it was easy, fast, and required no actual research. But the facts strongly imply otherwise. Even if "Roid Rage" were real - and again, most modern science says otherwise, or at least can't prove that it's a thing - the amount of drugs Benoit was taking combined with his brain damage inarguably would have had a LOT more direct effect on what he did. Plenty of people have done as much or worse when on those exact same drugs without ever taking steroids in their lives.

    If you take 50 Oxycontin a day, wash it down with beer and GHB, and do that routine for several years, then you're a ticking time bomb. He was simply a very unwell person who made horrible life choices. I surely would include steroids among those poor choices - for all we know, he may have had a heart attack by now if the events of that day never happened, like Guerrero did - but that's not why three people died that day. We'll never know what the inciting incident was that caused him to "snap", but we do know that he had a pharmacy's worth of drugs inside of him when he died, and that's plenty enough "reason" for anyone. One of the investigating officers was even quoted as saying the GHB alone could've done it, but everything together? Yeah, Benoit and his family never had a chance. Not with the lifestyle he chose for himself.
    Last edited by Rikki Roxx; April 17, 2021 at 04:56am.
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  23. #498
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the anabolic steroids found in Benoit during autopsy were an analog of testosterone and were in normal therapeutic levels, prescribed legitimately to treat his shrunken testicles. Pretty much everything in him (hydrocodone and Xanax) were also in therapeutic levels, and were also legitimately prescribed.

    The two variables there are the alcohol and the brain injuries. Nobody knows how much he was drinking when he killed them, but that was probably the tipping point. I mean, people have gone into violent outbursts on any of those medications alone, but add alcohol and it becomes a lit fuse.

    And yes, his google history that week was bizarre, and heartbreaking. The biblical passage he was researching was Acts 20, where a young man falls out of a window and dies, and Paul carries him back upstairs and brings him back to life. They spend the rest of the night eating and talking. Benoit made his son a bowl of spaghetti-os after he was already dead, suggesting that he was so out of it that he thought maybe if he did everything Paul did in that chapter, he could raise his son from the dead.
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  24. #499
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I'd read that his testosterone levels were indeed "therapeutic" but that the amount of pharmaceuticals in his system were excessive. But I'd honestly have to check it again.

    Somewhere along the line I'd read exactly what his prescribed dosage was and how often he was refilling that prescription - he'd just had a script filled the day of "the incident" - and it averaged out to be about 40-50 pills a day (while Nancy for her part was taking about 20 a day, for "back pain"). His levels at the time of death may have been lower since he possibly missed a few doses in the middle of all the "activity" that weekend, but in general he was walking around in a stupor for months, going by the scripts and how often he refilled him (along with things Nancy had told other people in the weeks and months beforehand; they argued often about his pill problem, but he generally just threw it back in her face since she was no saint, either).

    I think that specific doctor ended up going to federal prison for over-prescribing medication, as a direct result of the fallout from the Benoit incident.

    Drugs, man. I wouldn't recommend it!
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  25. #500
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Drugs, man. I wouldn't recommend it!
    That's why I am a tea totaller.

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