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Thread: Gangstor disqualified from the CaC contest - includes statement by Oz.Muerte

  1. #151
    Quester JonWes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Okay guys, I think that's that for this thread, certainly for the time being. I'm not sure what more can be said in any constructive fashion and things are again getting personal about people's intentions and character rather than their actions. If you guys want to continue the topic of what they might do with the other entrants (as TG alluded to) elsewhere that's fine.

    Thanks everyone.
    Upcoming MOTU-inspired Graphic Novel:

  2. #152
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Columbus, Ohio
    Hey folks. To follow up on what JonWes just posted,

    Whatever vertigoink's intentions were about pointing out the violation, please take it up directly with him over PM and not here on the forums. I'd prefer we not turn these forums into a tar and feathering about any user including who was disqualified.

    Scott is still giving the disqualified entrant a prize, which is cool.

    Also, if you have a concern with the rules, I recommend take it up with Mattel directly. The contest states "Sponsor will own, in perpetuity, solely and exclusively, all designs submitted in this Contest without compensation." This appears to me to mean that the artist no longer has rights to repost or reuse the artwork because they are no longer the owner. They could always ask permission, but that is up to Mattel as far as I can tell.

    Still, I'm not a lawyer and am not offering legal advice. Feel free to discuss the matter among yourselves. And no matter what, I feel you should take it up with Mattel directly or consult your own attorney to make sure your own actions with your own contest art conform to the law.


  3. #153
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    The side of the Gangstor story which deserves to be told on here.

    Here's a statement Oz posted on Toy World Order and asked for people to pass on:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz.Muerte
    I've been a lurker on here for going on a decade. I never posted because I've always been afraid of this has a certain reputation in the toy world. That being said, this is my first ever post, and wish it was under more pleasant circumstances...

    Look, I just want to clear the air about all this. It seems there's been misconceptions about myself, about the entry, about... *A LOT*.
    I'm going to attempt to tell you my side of the story, in hopes that it will put out a few fires, because I never once intended for things to turn out this way.

    Since there's so much to say, please forgive the long winded post...

    I was actually aware of the "rule"...and I say rule in quotations because when I would read about it on-line, it was always in question whether it was legitimate or simply something implied. Now one would probably ask; "Why would you post it anyway, if you were unsure of the rules validity?"... There's personal reasons I dont wish to delve to deep into, but around November of 2011 I fell into a great funk of a depression. There's a few on-line, who can attest to this & back me up. The contest, not to mention the nature of the some of the entries I sent in, all reflected my state of mind during that time.

    I had initially entered with the sole intention of getting a sub. The grand prize seemed unreachable for me. But if I could at least get a sub, then that would be great because I could keep collecting the line, as I currently do NOT have a sub simply because I couldn't budget it.
    But as I worked on these entries, other motivating factors took over. I rewatched the Toy Guru interview with Danny I believe, and the part that stuck with me was a part where he said "You have to want to DONATE these characters to us"... So I kept thinking about that "Donation" aspect. Like I was exxentially going to give these children up for adoption, but to HOPEFULLY a loving family.

    Now it was during this time that the depression hit...and I just want to make it clear that this isn't a "sob story", I'm not looking for pity, I'm just telling THE TRUTH. But during this time, I had a lot of self doubts. These doubts carried on to the following year after the submission deadline was over. So, to get SOME IDEA of whether I was on the right track or not with this. Whether I did good on my "donation" and trying to give these children to a family. In short; I just wanted some opinions. It was probably for the best that I just asked people IRL & not on-line....only problem is, **I KNOW NO OTHER MASTERS FANS IN REAL LIFE**. Only people who aren't into toys, or those who are just see certain toylines as "investments" and they're not actual fans. Let's put it this way, there's the people who KNOW who Fearless Photog & Wonderbread He-man are, and then there's those who don't. I needed to know what the real "He-Fans" & "She-Ravers" thought...

    I posted the things on-line, coincidently the same week the Horsemen tweeted that they were working on the winner. So I figured it wouldn't be a big deal anyhow. Once those guys are sculpting, its a bit late to disqualify & re-think entries' elligibility.
    And also, I wondered why there needed to be runner ups in the first place? In the original contest, you could VOTE. Thus giving them all equal footing until the votes are tallied and *THEN* the others would become runner-ups. Some part of me thought that what might happen is Toy Guru would show off all the entries in the pool as sculpted little statues, and then the fans would be able to yet again VOTE on the winner. It seemed logical, since we got to vote on Swiftwind's colors & Granymyr's colors. This would of been the ultimate fan interaction where YOU GUYS get to pick the next "Master"...

    Well, back on topic, When I got almost no reaction to what I uploaded on Deviant Art, something else happened, which I wont speak about here, and I fell into another deep funk of depression. This time I posted my entries on's forums. Again, I needed to feel good about myself. I needed some sort of reaction. I posted on there & reached out to Danny (Pixel Dan). I figured his opinions carry a lot of weight to them right? He's this Motu expert. So lets see what he has to say.
    At that point, the validity of the entries & the risk of disqualification didn't matter much to me. I even said in the post that I had just given up & didn't care.
    Dan did respond to that & made it seem like some sort of formality, and that it wasn't a big deal. When I signed the paper I thought that had to do with signing over THE RIGHTS to my 8 entries, and didn't think much else about it. Again, I had it set in my mind that this was a DONATION. I didn't think that signing it was about "Whether the entrant understands the rules or not"... But just like with the court case earlier this year where I was sued, I'm learning that in our legal system you apparently have to read & understand every little bit of fine print before agreeing to anything.

    At any rate, I want to again thank PixelDan for his opinions. That honestly did make me feel good about myself.

    Now here's where it gets crazy... One rule that I WAS aware of, was that it stated there was 5 slots. OK? .... FIVE.
    I was watching my twitter feed that Friday to see the new reveals. At this point I thought I had outright lost, not because of the posting of the images, but because I was under the impression that all 5 winners would be contacting on July 1st. I especiially remember that because I was lurking on here and noticed that there was thread about "CAC Spoilers"... Well, *MY* phone didn't ring that day. I evern checked my voicemail... there was nothing. So I figured it was all done & over with.
    I was away from the computer for a bit, and came back and scrolled down my tweet feed and saw the reveals IN REVERSE. So i saw Grayskull Man first... then I saw the runner ups. When I got to the fourth one, Ra-Jar, I thought "Ok, there they are."
    What shocked the bejeezus out of me was scrolling down to see GANGSTOR... I was so excited, that I rushed to Deviant art to add the dollowing text to the description box:


    Now I want to make it perfectly clear that I hold nothing against Mr Vertigoink about what he's done. The *ONLY* thing that upsets me, is him trying to make it seem like I was a criminal. Ironic since Gangstor *IS* a criminal... but at no point did I try to "pull a fast one". He must of been looking at my deviant account right as I was editing the description box, but at no point since the original upload date did I *EVER* delete or take down any of my 8 entries from my account. The only other time anthing was editied to them was when I was re-organizing things in my account, I made a new folder just for MOTU stuff, and moved the deviations from my default Feature gallery to my new seperate Motu gallery. That could of given the impression I was hiding something, but I was simply organizing. Nothing more.
    Now if anyone wants to know the truth then take it up with Deviant art, someone can simply e-mail their help desk and ask about activity regarding Gangstor or my other 7 entries and whether or not I actually deleted anything. They don't have a dog in the fight, they'll simply tell the truth.
    So for Mr VertigoInk, I understand your beef with Mattel, and you did what you did. The only thing I didn't care for was the character assassination. That was totally uncalled for. You don't know me & I dont know you. There was no need to drag my name through the mud ON TOP of making it so I wont get the prize. If I don't get free toys, that's fine. But I don't care for you to paint me as some sort of con man in front of everyone'e eyes, ESPECIALLY when I was trying to contribute (DONATE) to the community & masters mythology.
    (More on that in a bit...)

    Now in all this excitement, I didn't bother to notice something... I gave up a few times during this long process thinking I lost. And the absolute last time was when I saw Ra-Jar, because I saw what I always *THOUGHT* were the rules.
    1 Grand prize winner, and 4 runner-ups.... Math was never my strong suit in school, but last time I checked 1+4=5... NOT SIX. So seing Gangstor there as a *SIXTH* winner... it just seemed WEIRD.
    I wasn't sure what to make of it. Some part of me thought it was just Mattel being nice & giving away another sub. Like an "honorable Mention" kind of thing. Hell, maybe it was because SDCC was the same weekend as my birthday. Motu's 30th birthday and then literally 2 days later my 31st. maybe they thought it would be cute... or something?
    I certain did appreciate it though! It seemed to fit. It seemed right. I dont want to get all hippy-dippy with this...but it seemed like "destiny". He-Man was my first ever figure. I still have some of my originals. Especially one with a fair ammount of emotional poignancy (Rio Blast), which just so happens to be connected to Gangstor.

    Well, it wasn't until the Mattypalooza panel where I noticed a few things that
    For example. Why was I the only runner-up to have Toy Guru state "Oscar will be getting a 2013 Subscription".... he didn't say that about the others.... I mean, am I the only one who can hear him say that under the sounds of the crowd?
    The other thing I noticed during that Ra-Jar reveal was that the horsemen interrupt him & explain that Ra-Jar was meant to be a foil for the snake men & had this long epic story... That got me thinking... Snake man foil...long epic story...small furry creature.... kind of like this:
    Furo to me was a much stronger & more creative entry than Gangstor. Not saying I hate Gangstor, I made him, so I love him... but here's how I rank my 8 guys&gals:

    The Sacredess
    Fairy Grimm

    So I sat & wondered... could it have been possible that it was "too close to call" between Ra-Jar & they felt it was worth giving me SOMETHING, so they added a sixth winner & picked one of my other ones?
    Who knows. I wasnt a judge. Neither were any of you. We can only speculate. But its a theory which is worth thinking about.

    Now I kept that to myself, and planned on doing so, until all this disqualification mess.
    And I dont post this out of bitterness. I guess, I just wanted some form of recognition. Just a pat on the back and a "You did your best" kind of thing... The shock of winning was great, but in all honesty, Pixel's kind words meant the most to me. Maybe because I needed to hear it at that time, or because of his internet-celeb status, or because it was a personalized message.... who knows.

    So that's all I have to sa for myself... As for my creations though...

    As I said, I would get back to it about the donation, and here we are...

    I went into this with that "give your baby up for adoption" mentality. But knowing that I can make this baby any whcih way I could, I tried my best not to get bogged down into self indulgeance.... So each entry was either a gift for Mattel, or a gift for YOU GUYS.
    There's things I worked into my entries, thinking that if the won, one side or the other would be happy, and ideally *BOTH* parties would be happy... But as Lincoln discovered you cant please everybody. You can only please some of the people some of the time.

    But to address Gangstor hate, I'll say this, without going into personal issues regarding the character...
    People praised the horsemen for solving the problem of there being no "flyers" on the team of The Evil Warriors. Now Skelly has air support. Well, originally Skelly's "gun toting bad ass" that was meant to opposite Rio Blast was Tex Hex, who instead got moved over to Bravestarr. So there;s no outlaw or criminal meant to be Rio's opposite. There's no pachuli Stinkor to his pine-scent Moss man. So I gave him an adversary! The other thing is, to draw that connection between the two I used the same cybernetic arms. If it won, then arms would be tooled, so they could spend LESS on tooling for Rio, and hopefully do one with his "hidden guns" action feature in tact. I've said this before to Dan, but Rio is *MY* Mosquitor...I want to see him done right.
    Now, why a gangster & not a cowboy? Well simply because it hadn't been done in Motu. Toy Guru said that these picks were meant to seem like they *SHOULD* have come out back in the day, and simply never did.
    Bubblor is a great example, because when I look at that I think "That's a NA Space Mutant!"...well Gangstor would fit into the '86 & '87 assortments when we got these "character class" know...a ninja...a cowboy...a samurai...why not a gangster? And historically there is a slight bit of overlap in that time. The old west period usually includes the first decade of the 1900's. And the following decade is when organized crime started to ramp up... I kind of think about what Eastwood said in regards to Dirty Harry. That he would do one last movie if it was about a crazy killer that the cops couldn't track down but they know Inspector Callahan can catch the guy, so they have to call him out of retirement for one last mission. Well, the same would happen here, although for the story to work, Rio would have to be a bit older.

    As for the criticisms on Gangstor belonging in another line... THAT WAS INTENTIONAL!
    When I made him, I thought "OK...people saw Carnivus & thought "Its a thundercat".... People saw Icarius/Flip Shot & said "Its a Centurion".... So why not cross over another line in a "kinda/sorta" way.
    So in his bio when I said "He appeared AS IF OUT OF LIMBO..." what I was trying to say is he came from THE GALAXY OF LIMBO. He's a member of Mon*Star's mob. I labeled him as "Intergalactic Racketeer".... Intergalacatic. As in, spanning one galaxy to another.
    I figured if it won it could get other people into the line as well, like the Thundercats/SilverHawks crowd, and further show what Mattel could do over Bandai's quaint offerings.
    And someone made allusions to Cad Bane... Gangstor is not a rip on Cad Bane. Why would anone even say that? Because he has a gun & a wide brim hat? There's a pretty big difference between a sniper rifle & an assault rifle. And I don't know Lucas's reason for that hat, but with Gangstor, his hat & whole costume is meant to evoke a Zoot Suit... Wh am *I* the only one to see that??? Really wide tie, suspenders, wing tip shoes, pinstripes, and that huge hat... he's a zoot suiter. And that further connects him to Rio, since they would both be hispanic, just as I am.

    And with the "too modern" criticism, I just want to point out that when Rio came out in the '80s, he was from the previous century & was a 100 years back (1880s to 1980s).
    Gangstor is from the previous century (its the 21st now, the 20th might as well be ancient history), and is *almost* a 100 years back (1920s/1930s to 2012).
    And also...look at Vykron. His military armor is a drab green tank with a white star... That SCREAMS WWII --How is that ok, but Gangstor is not?
    Again, I think you have to think about this a bit, & perhaps like those later series characters in order to like Gangstor.

    And if you "just plain dont like him" that's fine. But please dont take that out on me. I was just trying to contribute. All my creations were meant to be a contribution to this mythology. Like Furo. He was meant to be a natural ecological foil to the snake men, a story of prey able to stand up to its predator. It would of been a perfect army builder figure since he comes with more Ferr-Rats as accessories.
    And lets say that won but you hated Furo, the "cockpit" if designed correctly, you'd be able to remove it from the figure, removed the Ferr-Rat, remove the chair & control panels, leaving the front piece, the red backpack and the bubble dome. You would of been able to put those remaining pieces on *ANY* other figure and re-create the "SCuba" accessory from back in the day.

    Like The Sacredess...if that won, you would of been able to removed her cloak & place it on a male buck. I drew it oversized just for that reason. Put it on Skelly or Scareglow and BAM! Instant movie Skeletor. It would be a way to get around the legalities with whoever owns the movie rights and on top of that if Mattel gets the rights, its one less piece they would have to tool. Spend those tooling dollars on something else.

    And I was hoping that even if I lost, that these ideas would still be used for the sole reason that I would want to buy this stuff! So go ahead & "steal" it... I think some fans were too far into this mentallity of "Mattel wants to take our stuff and I want compensation". You guys were not looking at the bigger picture.
    And I feel they already started using my ideas. Maybe its just a coincidence but they stuck a chick with the Fighting Foe Men who's a blonde that serves under Man-At-Arms & works on armor & shields.... take away the Barbie connection and the over the top Lady Gaga-esque costume I designed and its basically War-Drobe.
    If its not a coincidence then they got it from me. And I'm GLAD...that was the point! If MOTU servives into the next generation it needs new blood.
    Which by the way War-Drobe connection was meant to get Barbie collectors hopefully interested in Motu, & grow the brand. Same goes for Wrez-Lore, I could see him being in a promotional "versus" pack like the DCU stuff packaged with Sin Cara or Rey Mysterio, and get the wrestling community into Motu. More people interested=more sales=more shoot that *WE* know vehicles, playsets, action features, etc.

    Look, this letter is long enough. I've said my peace. If I don't get my prize, that's fine, since as I illustrated earlier I don't think I was *SUPPOSE* to get it anyway.
    If they "steal" ideas from my 8 entries, that's ok too, I *KNEW* it would happen.
    All I wanted to do was help out guys. That's all. And hopefully get that "Thanks" or "you did good"...and hopefully help my esteem issues. This was NEVER meant to blow up into something. So I've broken my silence and come onto the boards just to say, LEAVE IT ALONE. Ok? Whats done is done. Everyone just *STOP*. This isn't about me, or did everyone just forget that Daniel & GrayskullMan were the REAL winners here?
    I didn't want all this hoopla to happen. There's more important things going on in the world right now. We'll hit peak oil soon, for all we know Big Ben will be blown to bits during the Olmpics, WE STILL HAVE AIDS PEOPLE--it didn't just "go away"... I'd rather people just let this go, and just leave it alone. Everything doesn't have to be about drama & controversey.
    And if that's all me entering the contest created, then I'm going to outright say that I have failed you and I whole-heartedly apologize.
    Lets just go back to playing nice.

    So in short, not only was he unclear on the rules, but his posting was a desperate cry for help while he was suffering from severe depression.

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