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Thread: The mysterious Savage He-Man variant formerly known as "Wonder Bread He-Man"

  1. #2576
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    Frank Frazetta and Arnold pretty much owned our imagination when it came to iconic Conan imagery . Anyone exposed to Conan but not HeMan would probably say it looks sort of Conan....ish but not Conan. Then we have that Mattel lawsuit which compares the Toy Heman to Conan and arguing HeMan is three times more muscle . What about the Prince Valiant hair ? Crom laughs at that hair !!! If that was a Conan where is his iconic Conan weapons ? Those maroon coloured things ? Naaahh.

    I find it very hard to believe this was a scrapped Conan figure , halted and pulled off the factory line , suddenly to be recreated and labled HeMan and yet not repainted into HeMan colours instead all this awesome cash saving plastic and rubber surplus is used in some vague promo nobody can recall ?
    Last edited by Lokus; October 29, 2016 at 08:06am.

  2. #2577
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    I agree , that figure you got looks very legit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I may have mentioned this in an earlier post, but after years of speculation, I've pretty much settled on the idea that Savage He-Man was given away via the "Buy 3 Get 1 Free" offer in the months before the cartoon premiered. (When the MOTU line wasn't yet a massive hit.) I honestly don't think there's any grand reason behind the brown hair etc., other than Mattel was testing out different color schemes. Somewhere in this massive thread there's a People Magazine article that confirms that Mattel experimented with different hair colors on He-Man. I've gone through countless promotional offers that were advertised in newspapers, magazines etc. and Savage He-Man doesn't really follow the pattern of the types of things that were given away in-store or at events.
    Holy deja vu , been saying it all along , about the color scheme
    Don't you have better thing to do than read this stupid signature

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  3. #2578
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Frank Frazetta and Arnold pretty much owned our imagination when it came to iconic Conan imagery . Anyone exposed to Conan but not HeMan would probably say it looks sort of Conan....ish but not Conan. Then we have that Mattel lawsuit which compares the Toy Heman to Conan and arguing HeMan is three times more muscle . What about the Prince Valiant hair ? Crom laughs at that hair !!! If that was a Conan where is his iconic Conan weapons ? Those maroon coloured things ? Naaahh.

    I find it very hard to believe this was a scrapped Conan figure , halted and pulled off the factory line , suddenly to be recreated and labled HeMan and yet not repainted into HeMan colours instead all this awesome cash saving plastic and rubber surplus is used in some vague promo nobody can recall ?
    Definitely not a Conan figure. Check out this timeline. As you can see, He-Man was in development way before they were even thinking about Conan. I've bolded the parts pertinent to Conan.

    https://battleram.wordpress.com/2016...ine-1979-1987/

    1979

    1979 – Torak (He-Man) & early Skeletor concept, by Mark Taylor
    Aug 15, 1979 – Category Management Teams memo

    1980

    May 22, 1980 – Fantasy Make Believe idea disclosure form, Roger Sweet
    June 11, 1980 – Male Action Figure attributes list
    September 8, 1980 – Figure Attributes list
    September 21, 1980 – Space/Monster/Fantasy Figures budgeted hours form, Roger Sweet
    November 3, 1980 – Megaton Man project request form, Roger Sweet
    Late November, 1980 – Work started on “He-Man trio”, Roger Sweet with Mark Taylor
    Mid-December 1980 – He-Man trio presented at Mattel Product Conference
    December 30, 1980 – He-Man Characters & Accessories idea disclosure form, Roger Sweet

    1981

    Early 1981 – He-Man prototype, by Tony Guerrero
    1981 – Bird Man (Stratos) concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Mer-Man concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Castle Grayskull concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Battle Cat concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Sensor (Zodac) concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Heroic Figure Battle Tester (Castle Grayskull combat trainer) concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Heroic Figure (He-Man) concept, by Mark Taylor
    1981 – Heroic Figure (He-Man) battles plant monster concept, by Mark Taylor
    January 6, 1981 – He-Man Vehicles and Accessories idea disclosure form (modular vehicles), Roger Sweet
    January 23, 1981 – drawing by Colin Bailey depicting Mark Taylor working on He-Man project, titled “Death of Mark Taylor From Night Visitation”
    March 30, 1981 – De-Man (Skeletor) concept, by Mark Taylor
    April 1, 1981 – Man-At-Arms concept, by Mark Taylor
    April 2 1981 – Tree Man (Beast Man) concept, by Mark Taylor
    April 6 1981 – He-Man (tan boots) concept, by Mark Taylor
    April 7 1981 – Battle Ram (tank treads version) concept, by Ted Mayer
    April 24, 1981 – Memorandum urging negotiation for Conan license
    May 3, 1981 – He-Man (red/yellow boots) concept, by Mark Taylor
    May 5, 1981 – CPI draft licensing agreement sent
    May 28 1981 – Female Warrior (Teela) concept, by Mark Taylor
    May 28, 1981 – Battle Ram control drawing, by Ted Mayer
    June 3 1981 – Sorceress concept, by Mark Taylor
    June 5 1981 – Battle Chariot concept, by Ted Mayer
    July 1981 – He-Man designed by this month, per CPI vs Mattel lawsuit
    July 14, 1981 – Memorandum discussing Mattel’s presentation of He-Man to Toys ‘R’ Us
    July 23, 1981 – September 21 – Tony Guerrero worked on Conan toys
    July 31, 1981– CPI and Mattel entered license agreement to manufacture toys based on Conan movie
    August 10, 1981 – Attak Trak mechanism patent filed (non-Mattel)
    September 16, 1981 – Mer-Man sword design concept, by Mark Taylor
    December 21, 1981 – Castle Grayskull trap door mechanism patent filed
    December 14, 1981 – He-Man trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Teela trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Man-At-Arms trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Stratos trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Wind Raider trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Battle Ram trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Beast Man trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Mer-Man trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Zodac trademarked
    December 14, 1981 – Masters of the Universe trademarked
    December 21, 1981 – Battle Cat trademarked
    December 21, 1981 – Castle Grayskull Trap Door patent filed

    1982

    1982 – Ram Man concept, by Mark Taylor
    1982 – Gargo/Gargyle dragon concept, by Mark Taylor
    1982 – Man-E-Faces concept, by Mark Taylor
    January 1982 – Mattel requested termination of Conan license agreement
    January 15, 1982 – Castle Grayskull trademarked
    January 15, 1982 – Skeletor trademarked
    February 17, 1982 – Mattel introduces new “Masters of the Universe” toy line at Toy Fair
    March 4, 1982 – Attak Trak control drawing, by Ted Mayer
    March 23, 1982 – Attak Trak concept, by Ted Mayer
    April 14, 1982 – CPI and Mattel entered into a termination agreement
    May 21, 1982 – Trap Jaw concept, by Colin Bailey
    July 1982 – Wasp Man (Buzz-Off) concept, by Colin Baily
    July 1982 – Lizard Man (Whiplash) concept, by Colin Bailey
    September 27, 1982 – Attak Trak trademarked
    September 27, 1982 – Man-E-Faces trademarked
    September 27, 1982 – Point Dread & The Talon Fighter trademarked
    September 27, 1982 – Ram Man trademarked
    September 27, 1982 – Trap Jaw trademarked
    September 27, 1982 – Zoar trademarked
    October 5 1982 – Evil-Lyn concept, by Colin Bailey
    December 1, 1982 – Marlena Glenn (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – King Randor (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Tri-Klops (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Snake Mountain (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Panthor (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Prince Adam (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Sorceress (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Cringer (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Gorpo (Orko) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Delora (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Ram Man (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Spy Man (Mekaneck) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Bugoff (Buzz-Off) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Tri Trak vehicle (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Roton (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Faker (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Black Widow (Webstor) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Fang Man (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Chopper (Jitsu) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Tornado Traveler vehicle (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – War Sled (evil Battle Ram) (MOTU Bible)
    December 1, 1982 – Grinder vehicle (MOTU Bible)
    December 10, 1982 – Tri-Klops trademarked

  4. #2579
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    its 1982 i go the the Conan movie premier , after finishing my souvenir bucket of buttery popcorn i find a action figure in the bottom, just like my cereal box at home! i guess it said 1981 on the figure due to production, and import timing up with the movie release . after i got into collecting motu toys i matched up my black zodac weapons pack armor and a few weapons from my man e faces figure the rest was history... he was a friend of he-man fitting so well with the rest , although he man was always upset that he was dating she-ra, she liked his buttery popcorn cologne ,i like how much work went into that time line, but it proves nothing , the fact that it all went down within a few months or even in the same year just confirms to me that this figure has something to do with conan. the only people who wont consider this ,are the ones that have spent $900 on a conan for their motu collection , and AFA i believe has graded these in the past with MOTU on the hologram with NO proof from that line .says a lot about their credibility . so anyways until we have time travel and can go back and get a bucket of popcorn at the Conan movie , just get a $3 he man figure , some paint and make one , i have sold so many replicas (customs) that no one will ever know the "real" ones anyway . it is lost...

  5. #2580
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjor 9 View Post
    its 1982 i go the the Conan movie premier , after finishing my souvenir bucket of buttery popcorn i find a action figure in the bottom, just like my cereal box at home! i guess it said 1981 on the figure due to production, and import timing up with the movie release . after i got into collecting motu toys i matched up my black zodac weapons pack armor and a few weapons from my man e faces figure the rest was history... he was a friend of he-man fitting so well with the rest , although he man was always upset that he was dating she-ra, she liked his buttery popcorn cologne ,i like how much work went into that time line, but it proves nothing , the fact that it all went down within a few months or even in the same year just confirms to me that this figure has something to do with conan. the only people who wont consider this ,are the ones that have spent $900 on a conan for their motu collection , and AFA i believe has graded these in the past with MOTU on the hologram with NO proof from that line .says a lot about their credibility . so anyways until we have time travel and can go back and get a bucket of popcorn at the Conan movie , just get a $3 he man figure , some paint and make one , i have sold so many replicas (customs) that no one will ever know the "real" ones anyway . it is lost...
    Well, you can believe what you like of course. But the traditional theory of He-Man being a reworked Conan figure is simply untenable, at least without a working Cosmic Key! Now it's certainly possible that Mattel considered repainting He-Man for their Conan line, and that's where Wonder Bread He-Man came from. However, there is no evidence to support it.

    At this point we have solid evidence against the popular Conan theory. I consider it completely debunked.

    We still don't know why Mattel made He-Man with these colors. There are lots of interesting hypotheses in this thread. We may never know the truth.
    Last edited by Lich Leech; November 2, 2016 at 07:38am.

  6. #2581
    Heroic Warrior Ecmagee1984's Avatar
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    This pop up on facebook tonight. All i can say is wow
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #2582
    LittleSpinny TOKYONEVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecmagee1984 View Post
    This pop up on facebook tonight. All i can say is wow
    Damn! the find of the year lol

  8. #2583
    Midwestern She-Raver Salamandra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecmagee1984 View Post
    This pop up on facebook tonight. All i can say is wow
    Ohhhhhh....this is amazing!!!

  9. #2584
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    Damn! the find of the year lol
    These things are popping up way too much and in near mint condition too .

    This is not an official brand product . I dont see why any serious collector would even consider giving it any thought .

    Simplest explanation . Someone has MOTU molds and is chugging it out for eeezzzy money .
    Last edited by Lokus; November 6, 2016 at 05:14am.

  10. #2585
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    These things are popping up way too much and in near mint condition too .

    This is not an official brand product . I dont see why any serious collector would even consider giving it any thought .

    Simplest explanation . Someone has MOTU molds and is chugging it out for eeezzzy money .
    Ugh. I hope that isn't actually happening. Yet it's always possible. Thankfully some of you are experts at spotting fakes. But, sadly, there's no way to stop them from getting on the market initially.

    these days, it's becoming more and more difficult to trust the rarities found for one's collection.
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  11. #2586
    Canadian 3-packs hunter bObA_fEtt_Ox's Avatar
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    Are you sure that's a fake ?
    $$$$$ WANT TO BUY, HIGHTEST PRICES OFFERED $$$$$

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  12. #2587
    LittleSpinny TOKYONEVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    These things are popping up way too much and in near mint condition too .

    This is not an official brand product . I dont see why any serious collector would even consider giving it any thought .

    Simplest explanation . Someone has MOTU molds and is chugging it out for eeezzzy money .
    Just impossible
    I worked myself with current plastic factories and you simply can't have today as result the same plastic as the one used in the 80'.
    Simply take a look at the commemorative Motu figures from 2001 or again the last "Three Terrors" figures made by Super7 this year and compare the plastic used with a vintage figure, it is not the same, simply because you can't match today the exact material.
    Same thing on Barbies, Star Wars toys, My Little ponys etc etc
    It is just an impossible thing for a factory today.

    I already got 2 original Savage He-Man figures in hands and the plastic is from 80' for sure, originally it is a vintage figure and not a custom or something new from these last 15 years.
    If you never got one of them in hands I can understand your scepticism, now "serious" collectors are not stupids and we exactly know what we are bying or seeing.
    Just get an original one in hands and you'll see by yourself.
    Last edited by TOKYONEVER; November 6, 2016 at 11:55am.

  13. #2588
    Canadian 3-packs hunter bObA_fEtt_Ox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOKYONEVER View Post
    Just impossible
    I worked myself with current plastic factories and you simply can't have today as result the same plastic as the one used in the 80'.
    Simply take a look at the commemorative Motu figures from 2001 or again the last "Three Terrors" figures made by Super7 this year and compare the plastic used with a vintage figure, it is not the same, simply because you can't match today the exact material.
    Same thing on Barbies, Star Wars toys, My Little ponys etc etc
    It is just an impossible thing for a factory today.

    I already got 2 original Savage He-Man figures in hands and the plastic is from 80' for sure, originally it is a vintage figure and not a custom or something new from these last 15 years.
    If you never got one of them in hands I can understand your scepticism, now "serious" collectors are not stupids and we exactly now what we are bying or seeing.
    Just got an original one in hands and you'll see by yourself.
    That was a very good news and that's why I appreciate your input Toky
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  14. #2589
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Wowsers! 6 of them?!
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  15. #2590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecmagee1984 View Post
    This pop up on facebook tonight. All i can say is wow
    Lol thats a hoax . They were sold in New Jersey, the mother land of all bootleg merch from shoes to headphones . Im a 10 year thrift reseller and any item ive ever found knock off is at a local village thrift that gets the bulk of its merch pallets and gaylords shipped in from NJ

  16. #2591
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    Spme guy I went to kindergarten with in the 80s had one , I was very puzzled by this as he was the only one I knew who had one and I'd never seen it in a store and I assure you it was real , not custom painted.
    Don't you have better thing to do than read this stupid signature

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  17. #2592
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    I was there when HeMan exploded into our imaginations and as with most of world all the kiddies went crazy for him . My memory of those first few years are very much intact . I recall all the promo,s but i dont not recall anything like this . A chance to get a nice HeMan toy by doing so and so , what parent would refuse to save a few bucks so I am sure they kept their eyes open too .

    Mattel brand products gave us a wonderful , magical childhood . There is no plausable reason or logic for Mattel to deny Wonderbread . There would be far too many witnesses , too many workers and children. Where are they ? Where are these hundreds of people ? Where are the records ? We have records of everything else . Its only been 30 years .

    Only half a dozen witness ?

    I respect Mattel and their action figures too much to support this questionable no name dolly . Anyone can repaint a HeMan 30 years ago or today .

    This is fraud nothing more , nothing less . Forgive me but it very much saddens me that an official MOTU website glorifies this.
    Last edited by Lokus; November 15, 2016 at 05:19am.

  18. #2593
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Arkangel's Avatar
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    Not gonna tell you to read through all the pages but it has been mentioned several times that the quality and characteristics of these figures are pretty consistent. And yes there is reason for Mattel to deny the making of this figure

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  19. #2594
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    I was there when HeMan exploded into our imaginations and as with most of world all the kiddies went crazy for him . My memory of those first few years are very much intact . I recall all the promo,s but i dont not recall anything like this . A chance to get a nice HeMan toy by doing so and so , what parent would refuse to save a few bucks so I am sure they kept their eyes open too .

    Mattel brand products gave us a wonderful , magical childhood . There is no plausable reason or logic for Mattel to deny Wonderbread . There would be far too many witnesses , too many workers and children. Where are they ? Where are these hundreds of people ? Where are the records ? We have records of everything else . Its only been 30 years .

    Only half a dozen witness ?

    I respect Mattel and their action figures too much to support this questionable no name dolly . Anyone can repaint a HeMan 30 years ago or today .

    This is fraud nothing more , nothing less . Forgive me but it very much saddens me that an official MOTU website glorifies this.
    It may be easy to repaint a He-Man figure (not so easy to replicate factory paints from the 80s), however, but how do you you create a convincingly molded version of the crotch piece in brown? It's not painted, it's molded in brown, in a shade different from any other figure, and in some cases with mold artifacts different from any other figure.

  20. #2595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    I respect Mattel and their action figures too much to support this questionable no name dolly . Anyone can repaint a HeMan 30 years ago or today .

    This is fraud nothing more , nothing less . Forgive me but it very much saddens me that an official MOTU website glorifies this.
    These days it's conceivable to create a custom Savage He-Man which might pass for the real thing, but I got mine in 2004 shortly after they started being discussed on the forums here. It was in an eBay lot of He-Man figures and wasn't highlighted in the pictures (although I could see it in one of the photos so that's why I put in a bid). It didn't go for very much so I think it's unlikely the seller was trying to con anyone.

    A number of collectors have had this figure even earlier, and as Tokyo said, the quality and consistency of the figure makes it incredibly unlikely to be a custom job (in fact, I'd say the quality of the figure could be better than the regular figures).

    Do you remember what the head looks like on the commemorative He-Man released by Mattel in 2000? It looks terrible, because Mattel no longer had the original head mold and was forced to make a new mold from a vintage He-Man toy. It's a copy of a copy and it's obvious. Whoever made Savage He-Man had access to the original Mattel molds.
    Last edited by Universe; November 17, 2016 at 11:38pm.

  21. #2596
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    That grouping in the Facebook post is amazing, assuming the photo itself is genuine and it tells of a genuine experience of finding these things at Goodwill.

    Even if you assume they are knock-offs / fakes - the most logical explanation for a grouping of that kind - you have to wonder: the purpose of such fakes would be to sell them for a lot more than they are worth, not dump them at some thrift store. Perhaps the scamee is the one who dumped?

    Very strange, but I'll tell you this: even if they are fake, I'd take them.

  22. #2597
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Slaughter View Post
    It's hard not to believe that these weren't potentially being planned for some sort of tie-in, probably to Conan. The entire MOTU line was originally developed so that Mattel would have a default toy line that they could reuse the molds to make licensed movie toys. They literally sent internal memos saying that was the sole purpose of the line, to be cannibalized into other lines when they scored new properties. Of course, they never really did that, because MOTU took off, but very early in the process, they could have started to make Conan figures for this (or even another movie) and then realized that wasn't going to work for whatever reason and dumped the figures back into a He-Man promotion, since they were, for all intents and purposes just a slightly modified He-Man.
    The memo you're referring to comes from December 24 1981. The MOTU line was all designed way before then. I know the memo appeared in the Dark Horse "Art of He-Man" book but I don't see anything that actually ties it to MOTU.

    The memo seems to be looking for a shorter scale generic figure, too.



    - - - Updated - - -

    So I'm slowly reading my way through this thread. Interesting the things taken for granted now. It was a revelation to many back in 2008 that Rudy Obrero painted the early box art. MOTU knowledge continues to build and snowball.

  23. #2598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Frank Frazetta and Arnold pretty much owned our imagination when it came to iconic Conan imagery . Anyone exposed to Conan but not HeMan would probably say it looks sort of Conan....ish but not Conan. Then we have that Mattel lawsuit which compares the Toy Heman to Conan and arguing HeMan is three times more muscle . What about the Prince Valiant hair ? Crom laughs at that hair !!! If that was a Conan where is his iconic Conan weapons ? Those maroon coloured things ? Naaahh.
    I wouldn't say that Crom would laugh at Prince Valiant hair. Because Conan in the late 70's and early 80's comics pubblished by Marvel he had the exact same hairstyle, especially the depiction of King Conan. He even had a darker skin, back then. If it wasn't for the hair colour, and the harness, He-Man and Conan would look exactly the same, in these depictions.

    Last edited by granamyr80; December 11, 2016 at 08:05pm.

  24. #2599
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    If it wasn't for the hair colour, and the harness, He-Man and Conan would look exactly the same, in these depictions.
    Well thats because that exact early 80,s timeline artist was obviously ripping off HeMan . Subliminal cultural familiarity has an effect on sales . I have no doubt Thor comics were flying off the shelves at that time .
    If this was normal Conan hair it would be labeled as such . Conan is older than Prince Valiant , I think ? HeMan would be wearing a "Conan" hair style .

  25. #2600
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    So I just did an interview Martin Arriola, which will probably come out next week. I was hoping he would know something about this figure, but he thinks it was either done before he got there, or it was already in process and he was busy with other projects. I think if it had been started while he was there (he started sometime in '82) he would have remembered it. For whatever that's worth.

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