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Thread: Unproduced MOTU vintage last wave

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    :^)
    I WAS personally GUTTED, though, on the change from the name "HotShot" to the miserably inferior "Plasmar". :^(
    I'm the opposite - they went from a very generic name to something that sounds way more MOTU.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    :^) I didn't really have a dog in the fight in the change between the Horroar/Terroar naming. Either name works as well as the other. What I DID raise an eyebrow over, at the time, was the odd presumption that the Vintage figure was supposed to have had a fancy bellows-powered "screaming" action feature, which would have inevitably led to more engineering costs and (likely?) tooling, for a figure that was supposed to be part of a "no-frills" economy wave. Never quite wrapped my head around that leap of logic, which evidently led to the "Roar" part of his name in the first place, though obviously decades later.

    I WAS personally GUTTED, though, on the change from the name "HotShot" to the miserably inferior "Plasmar". :^(
    I prefer latter because

    A) there are tons of Hotshots. It's not an unique name. Is there Autobot like that?

    B) with assumption that he can make any weapon from plasma "Hotshot" focuses too much on just guns.

    C) name sounds like he has fire powers while it looks more he makes energy constructs.

    I assume nickname came from art alone before he got red translucent accessories but to me giving him plasma powers saved character who originally had really dull gimmick.

  3. #103
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    Wasn’t Hot Shot just a nickname given by fans?
    Not as I remember. The name wasn't in vogue for very long, but I recall an official press release (or e-mail? or forum post?) about the change when it happened. I distinctly recollect personally replying: "Don't TELL me, let me GUESS! Does Hasbro have a trademark out on the name 'HotShot'?" (Which of course it DID!) [^D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    I'm the opposite - they went from a very generic name to something that sounds way more MOTU.
    That's fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    I prefer latter because

    A) there are tons of Hotshots. It's not an unique name. Is there Autobot like that?
    Probably! LOL

    I'm wondering if it wasn't because the figure was planned to (re-)use He-Ro's Classics armor, with the sculpted "H" emblem, that endeared the whole idea to me. :^) And then THAT went south, along with several OTHER weird miscalculations in the planning/production of the figure, eventually making him a figure I'm kind of a little embarrassed to have on my shelf...
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  4. #104
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    I personally preferred Hot Shot, and still refer to him as such.

  5. #105
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    I'm honestly more bugged by the name "Slamural" than anything else, though I can't think of a better one.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    I'm wondering if it wasn't because the figure was planned to (re-)use He-Ro's Classics armor, with the sculpted "H" emblem, that endeared the whole idea to me. :^) And then THAT went south, along with several OTHER weird miscalculations in the planning/production of the figure
    What other weird miscalculations?

  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    What other weird miscalculations?
    :^) I'm betting that mileage will vary, but I feel that ALL of the Power-Con "1988 Unproduced Wave" figures suffered from under-development and WAYYY too much over-thinking!

    Of course parts re-use is written into these figures' DNA. It's the reason these characters exist! But what should have been a pretty straight-forward adaptation for Plasmar took a few less-than-stellar side trips. I've mentioned the loss of the Vintage use He-Ro armor, and the (possibly/probably connected?) woeful name change, but what I feel is most unsettling is the (actual proper!) use of SSSqueeze's legs. Plasmar (re-)used those legs in his Vintage artwork, but they had received a very nice Plus-up in Masters Classics that the Vintage figure lacked: an intricate scaly texture on the non-booted/armored sections. It ought to have been easy to simply color the legs silver, or bronze, or some metallic color, and make like Plasmar is wearing chain-mail. Stranger wardrobe choices have DEFINITELY been made on Eternia!, LOL

    Instead, the PTBs painted the scaly parts with an intricate striped pattern, and had his box-back Bio explain that after Snake Men killed his family, Plasmar took to hunting and skinning Snake Men, wearing their hides as grisly trophies! Just what we needed: a Heroic Warrior with vengeful bloodlust.

    In another weird work-around from Vintage to Classics, the fact that the Evil Horde Crossbows had (also) been upgraded to incorporate an actual grippable handle (as opposed to the Vintage over-the-forearm clip style) meant that Plasmar was forced to go to market with a pair of hands that didn't match.

    I was going to say something about the (re-)use of Fisto's head, and that the Bio didn't go out of its way to give us a convoluted explanation as to why the two men look so much alike, but then I realized that I actually favor that, over the bizarre and logic-defying back-story with which Terroar was saddled.

    I realize i'm just rambling now. Take Care! :^)

    Power-Con.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    I'm honestly more bugged by the name "Slamural" than anything else, though I can't think of a better one.
    Yes! LOL [^D
    Last edited by Snake_Man; August 9, 2022 at 02:26am.
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  8. #108
    Heroic Warrior Thrillhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    :^) I'm betting that mileage will vary, but I feel that ALL of the Power-Con "1988 Unproduced Wave" figures suffered from under-development and WAYYY too much over-thinking!
    .....
    Yeah, I'm not too impressed with the bios over explaining why the character re-uses parts. I love the 88 wave, but Ter-Roar's whole bio is a mess. Just have him be a Snake Man, not a creature who copied bits and pieces of others he saw!?!?!

    Which leads me to my theory about Plasmar's armour changing from He-Ro's to Sir Laser Lots. I believe it was so they can use the Gem of Tamadge simply to shoe-horn in an excuse for his weapons re-use: Why would he use a Horde crossbow? Or have wrist guns the same as Rio-Blast? Because he saw them and is replicating them, of course!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillhouse View Post
    Yeah, I'm not too impressed with the bios over explaining why the character re-uses parts. I love the 88 wave, but Ter-Roar's whole bio is a mess. Just have him be a Snake Man, not a creature who copied bits and pieces of others he saw!?!?!

    Which leads me to my theory about Plasmar's armour changing from He-Ro's to Sir Laser Lots. I believe it was so they can use the Gem of Tamadge simply to shoe-horn in an excuse for his weapons re-use: Why would he use a Horde crossbow? Or have wrist guns the same as Rio-Blast? Because he saw them and is replicating them, of course!

    Is that what this gem does? I can't keep track of Classics lore

    I heard that they changed armor because He-Ro is too important to have his armor recycled.

  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    :^) I'm betting that mileage will vary, but I feel that ALL of the Power-Con "1988 Unproduced Wave" figures suffered from under-development and WAYYY too much over-thinking!

    Of course parts re-use is written into these figures' DNA. It's the reason these characters exist! But what should have been a pretty straight-forward adaptation for Plasmar took a few less-than-stellar side trips. I've mentioned the loss of the Vintage use He-Ro armor, and the (possibly/probably connected?) woeful name change, but what I feel is most unsettling is the (actual proper!) use of SSSqueeze's legs. Plasmar (re-)used those legs in his Vintage artwork, but they had received a very nice Plus-up in Masters Classics that the Vintage figure lacked: an intricate scaly texture on the non-booted/armored sections. It ought to have been easy to simply color the legs silver, or bronze, or some metallic color, and make like Plasmar is wearing chain-mail. Stranger wardrobe choices have DEFINITELY been made on Eternia!, LOL

    Instead, the PTBs painted the scaly parts with an intricate striped pattern, and had his box-back Bio explain that after Snake Men killed his family, Plasmar took to hunting and skinning Snake Men, wearing their hides as grisly trophies! Just what we needed: a Heroic Warrior with vengeful bloodlust.

    In another weird work-around from Vintage to Classics, the fact that the Evil Horde Crossbows had (also) been upgraded to incorporate an actual grippable handle (as opposed to the Vintage over-the-forearm clip style) meant that Plasmar was forced to go to market with a pair of hands that didn't match.

    I was going to say something about the (re-)use of Fisto's head, and that the Bio didn't go out of its way to give us a convoluted explanation as to why the two men look so much alike, but then I realized that I actually favor that, over the bizarre and logic-defying back-story with which Terroar was saddled.

    I realize i'm just rambling now. Take Care! :^)

    Power-Con.jpg

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    Yes! LOL [^D
    - I'm not sure I agree about the overthinking, after all, these characters were a completely blank slate apart from artwork.

    - The decision to not re-use He-Ro's armour was the right one. As someone else mentioned, He-Ro is way too important and prominent a character to recycle his unique armour for a Z-lister.

    - Plasmar's bio portraying him as a ruthless vigilante targeting Snake Men is totally awesome!! In a property filled with goody-two-shoe heroes, he's a refreshing anti-hero badass. Storywise, he's potentially set up to be MOTU's version of the Punisher. How can you not like that?

    - I'll give you the hand thing. He should at least be able to actually hold the weapon he comes with!

  11. #111
    Heroic Warrior Bear's Avatar
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    I feel like those 6 characters should get in the feel of the vintage line and be simple fun toy concepts, not something you need long convoluted explanation.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    I'm betting that mileage will vary, but I feel that ALL of the Power-Con "1988 Unproduced Wave" figures suffered from under-development and WAYYY too much over-thinking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    - I'm not sure I agree about the overthinking, after all, these characters were a completely blank slate apart from artwork.

    - The decision to not re-use He-Ro's armour was the right one. As someone else mentioned, He-Ro is way too important and prominent a character to recycle his unique armour for a Z-lister.
    This got me thinking, and I think you're both right.

    Looking at the vintage He-Ro prototype photo, the 'H' symbol doesn't look to be sculpted, and would have most likley been a sticker, whilst Plasmar's cardback drawing has the outline of the sticker area, but no 'H'.
    I think it's safe to say that the vintage Plasmar would have had a different sticker, so both characters would have had a unique look (such as Syklone and Strobo).

    This leads to the problem of Classics. The ultra detail called for He-Ro to have his sticker logo sculpted with no plans/forethought of Plasmar reusing his armour (the same problem Slamurai faced re-using Ninjors sculpted robes).

    Now, as vintage Plasmar's sticker is unknown, anything could have been designed. Re-using He-Ros armour could have worked, but Sir Laser-Lot's armour is almost identical to He-Ros already, essentially replacing the "H sticker" with a "Gem sticker"

    Backtracking, if you want to make a custom 88 vintage line copying the MOTUC colours, a little sticker of a gem would be necessary (maybe a holographic sticker for that authentic 80's toy gimmick).

    I'll admit I was highly disappointed when Plasmar's armour was changed during production and until now, it really bugged me that it was not made from "vintage" parts. Coming up with the sticker theory today actually sits well with me.

  13. #113
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillhouse View Post
    This got me thinking, and I think you're both right.

    Looking at the vintage He-Ro prototype photo, the 'H' symbol doesn't look to be sculpted, and would have most likley been a sticker, whilst Plasmar's cardback drawing has the outline of the sticker area, but no 'H'.
    I think it's safe to say that the vintage Plasmar would have had a different sticker, so both characters would have had a unique look (such as Syklone and Strobo).

    This leads to the problem of Classics. The ultra detail called for He-Ro to have his sticker logo sculpted with no plans/forethought of Plasmar reusing his armour (the same problem Slamurai faced re-using Ninjors sculpted robes).

    Now, as vintage Plasmar's sticker is unknown, anything could have been designed. Re-using He-Ros armour could have worked, but Sir Laser-Lot's armour is almost identical to He-Ros already, essentially replacing the "H sticker" with a "Gem sticker"

    Backtracking, if you want to make a custom 88 vintage line copying the MOTUC colours, a little sticker of a gem would be necessary (maybe a holographic sticker for that authentic 80's toy gimmick).

    I'll admit I was highly disappointed when Plasmar's armour was changed during production and until now, it really bugged me that it was not made from "vintage" parts. Coming up with the sticker theory today actually sits well with me.
    You make a lot of interesting points! I hadn't considered that vintage He-Ro's "H" would likely have been a sticker instead of sculpted, which explains why Plasmar's concept art omitted it. Same with your example of Slamurai re-using Ninjor's tunic, where in the art it's a blank space in place of Ninjor's symbol. Fortunately Classics was able to get around that by including a soft goods tunic for Slamurai to provide the option to swap out the repainted Ninjor one in order to give him a more unique look, but that obviously couldn't have worked with Plasmar.

    I'm very curious how Origins will handle this. If they decide to make a figure of He-Ro (highly likely seeing how he's already being released in Masterverse), I strongly suspect they'll try to be as vintage accurate as possible and give him the gold vac metal armour with the "H" either being a sticker or painted on instead of being sculpted. That being the case, if they ever get around to Plasmar, they could certainly re-use He-Ro's armour but create a new, unique symbol, especially since I think it's unlikely we'll see Sir Laser Lot in Origins and thus his armour won't be available for re-use...

  14. #114
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    I heard that they changed armor because He-Ro is too important to have his armor recycled.
    You know who is INARGUABLY even MORE important than He-Ro??

    Skeletor. [^D

    As I understood it back when it happened, they went looking for the molds for He-Ro's Masters Classics armor to use for "Plasmar" (who at the time was operating under the working title "HotShot", which I have to admit is kind of a work-around of its own, seeing as He-Ro's armor has an incontrovertible "H" emblem sculpted on it), and either DIDN'T find it, or found it to be damaged/degraded beyond usability. I don't remember anyone claiming that He-Ro was too important a character to rate his armor being re-used. If You recall, the He-Ro "look" WAS slated to be used for the all-parts-re-use Vintage edition of the Plasmar/HotShot character, and this was to have been one year after what would have been the He-Ro figure's release (Ohhh, all the "What might have beens!" in that statement! LOL)!

    As much as I personally adore He-Ro, and I know I'm far from alone, I couldn't possibly rate the guy as better than "C"-List on his best day. It's harsh, but I think it's fair. :^/
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    You know who is INARGUABLY even MORE important than He-Ro??

    Skeletor. [^D

    As I understood it back when it happened, they went looking for the molds for He-Ro's Masters Classics armor to use for "Plasmar" (who at the time was operating under the working title "HotShot", which I have to admit is kind of a work-around of its own, seeing as He-Ro's armor has an incontrovertible "H" emblem sculpted on it), and either DIDN'T find it, or found it to be damaged/degraded beyond usability. I don't remember anyone claiming that He-Ro was too important a character to rate his armor being re-used. If You recall, the He-Ro "look" WAS slated to be used for the all-parts-re-use Vintage edition of the Plasmar/HotShot character, and this was to have been one year after what would have been the He-Ro figure's release (Ohhh, all the "What might have beens!" in that statement! LOL)!

    As much as I personally adore He-Ro, and I know I'm far from alone, I couldn't possibly rate the guy as better than "C"-List on his best day. It's harsh, but I think it's fair. :^/
    Was Skeletor ener reused? And please don't say Faker.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Was Skeletor ener reused? And please don't say Faker.
    Fuerza-T had a character "Spector" that never went beyond concept.


  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    Fuerza-T had a character "Spector" that never went beyond concept.

    https://i.postimg.cc/RZk29gPZ/Spector.png
    Fuerza aren't the same thing as regular motu. They even reused He-Man head.

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Was Skeletor ener reused? And please don't say Faker.
    Why wouldn't I say Faker? You were implying that He-Ro is/was too important a character to have his armor re-used, when the very first ever instance of armor re-use was that of the franchise's lead villain, for the first ever newly added character past Wave One.

    So yes: Faker. :^)
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Man View Post
    Why wouldn't I say Faker? You were implying that He-Ro is/was too important a character to have his armor re-used, when the very first ever instance of armor re-use was that of the franchise's lead villain, for the first ever newly added character past Wave One.

    So yes: Faker. :^)
    But the whole point of Faker is to look like rip-off.

    So unless Plasmar canonically wears He-Ro inspired armor because he's a fanboy or something, he should wear something else.

    Fisto isnt carrying Tri-Klops' sword to look like Tri-Klops. He has it because sword is a sword.

  20. #120
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    But the whole point of Faker is to look like rip-off.

    So unless Plasmar canonically wears He-Ro inspired armor because he's a fanboy or something, he should wear something else.

    Fisto isnt carrying Tri-Klops' sword to look like Tri-Klops. He has it because sword is a sword.
    Faker isn't supposed to be a SKELETOR cosplay. He is supposed to be a copy of HE-MAN. Wearing Skeletor armor makes about as much sense for Faker as people believing that a blue He-Man isn't suspect somehow. :^) As a figure with 100% parts re-use, Faker would have been the perfect addition to the 1988 Wave, if his personal cache weren't so storied by his super-early addition to the lore.

    Lots of characters carry weapons that resemble gear found on the Rak in Castle Grayskull. It hasn't always had to have had a long and involved backstory to explain it. Nor should it have! I'm just saying that the person/team that wrote those "1988" Bios didn't have to work/dig nearly as hard as they obviously did. :^)

    You are saying that Tri-Klops and Fisto just happen to carry similar-looking swords. That's very fair. Couldn't the same just be said about the armor worn by He-Ro and Plasmar/HotShot? There is as much pertinent backstory linking the two swords, as there is connecting the two sets of fancy caped breastplates (that is, absolutely NONE).

    Plasmar/HotShot was set to (re-)use He-Ro's armor in the Vintage line. And then decades later, when we learned of his existence, and he finally got a figure, he didn't. Both of those ships have long sailed. I just don't think it would have killed them to be as slavish to history as they know that most of us fans are, and would want them to be. It won't cause me sleepless nights that they went another way, but the parts replacement remains noteworthy in the fact that it happened.
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  21. #121
    Heroic Warrior Thrillhouse's Avatar
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    This might explain my idea a bit better. The unreleased He-Ro has a sticker. The unreleased Plasmar has the same buck, with the same shaped sticker, but doesn't necessarily have the same "H" sticker.
    Lets pretend in the 80's, he was released with a "gem" sticker.

    He-Ro buck.jpg

    When He-Ro was Classic-ized, the "H" sticker was sculpted. When Plasmar was Classic-ized, his "Gem" sticker was sculpted. The rest of the armour and cape is pretty much the same.
    Only slight differences. Less differences than Fisto and Clamp Champs armour, or Jitsu and King Randor.

    He-Ro buck 2.jpg

    As for the reasoning that He-Ro's armour is too important... meh! Maybe they meant they wanted to keep his "H" unique to him, in which case I'm happy with the results.

  22. #122
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    Any more pictures?

  23. #123
    Heroic Warrior Snake_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillhouse View Post
    This might explain my idea a bit better. The unreleased He-Ro has a sticker. The unreleased Plasmar has the same buck, with the same shaped sticker, but doesn't necessarily have the same "H" sticker.
    Lets pretend in the 80's, he was released with a "gem" sticker.

    He-Ro buck.jpg

    When He-Ro was Classic-ized, the "H" sticker was sculpted. When Plasmar was Classic-ized, his "Gem" sticker was sculpted. The rest of the armour and cape is pretty much the same.
    Only slight differences. Less differences than Fisto and Clamp Champs armour, or Jitsu and King Randor.

    He-Ro buck 2.jpg

    As for the reasoning that He-Ro's armour is too important... meh! Maybe they meant they wanted to keep his "H" unique to him, in which case I'm happy with the results.
    Awesome! Thank You so much for sharing! :^D
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