Page 18 of 32 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast
Results 426 to 450 of 778

Thread: Mattel no longer owns the rights to MOTU?

  1. #426
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    nashville, tn
    Posts
    6,373
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    Scott Neitlich released another video today on this topic. Considering he was privy to proprietary information not publicly available to the fans, I believe him. It would be stupid to make a claim that could be proven demonstrably false in eighteen months, and he doesn’t strike me as a stupid person.
    You are right. Why would someone who the toy industry has left behind, who is trying to stay relevant, and is trying to garner views to get youtube money for short term gain because they see they will be even more irrelevant in 18 months possibly lie? Yup, no reason I can think of to keep stoking the fires at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    In my experience as a collector, most times when companies are a year or so away from losing a license, they slow production down and start cheaping out on things. They generally don't register a bunch of new trademarks and increase their production output by a whole bunch.

    I guess there's always a first time, it's just not how it generally goes.

    I have no actual insight on this, just an observation.
    Exactly right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Not available to the fans, fair enough. But no one else? Literally, he came in here recently and said Mattel sold the rights in the 90s after a "bad year". You just have to look at this objectively. In all those years, literally no one else has come out to corroborate his story. No one. He is the only person on the planet it seems who has this information. In all those years, someone else would have backed him up by now. No one has, which is very telling.

    Mattel are re-launching the entire brand. That is a very expensive process with a lot of risks associated with it. Mattel are in growth mode now, exiting the turnaround mode. Why would they do this if they knew they were going to lose the rights in a year and a half? It’s moronic. Scott is sounding like a conspiracy theorist, and he is pegging this idea (and only him) for hits, which you and others are giving him. He obviously has no interest in working in this industry ever again, because if he did he wouldn't keep on making these ludicrous videos.
    Yes, no one AT ALL, has corroborated any of the information. Sure no one currently at Mattel will go on record about proprietary information but MANY people worked there and that means there would be someone now that is retired that would be able to back up details on something large like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Well, I'll tell you what, if this is true someone needs to tell Mattel pronto, because I don't think they know. Maybe Scott should give them a ring, seeing as he's the only man on the planet privy to this information.
    That... is actually a clever test lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldfan87 View Post
    Wait, wait, wait... since WHEN did Universal/Dreamworks get the rights to 200X? Back in the day, comments by JVS3 indicated that Mattel owned 200X entirely, and not entertainment rights. And BCI guy said when they made the 200X DVD, that it was a separate license with mattel that had nothing to do with entertainment rights/classic media, and they worked solely with mattel on that one. My mill creek 200X box set mentions only Mattel on the packaging, dvd disks and DVD content. Dreamworks might have worked with 200X during the time they were acting as Mattel's licensing agent for MOTU, but that wouldn't give them ownership of 200X after that contract was up.

    Also, notice Toyguru covered his butt with this latest video? He said things might remain the same between Mattel and Dreamworks/universal after the 2023 'deadline' which he can use to explain away why nothing will change when 2023 rolls around. Very interesting, there.
    Yup, he is cleverly laying groundwork to move those goal posts...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jzguitars View Post
    As someone days away from publishing a book on the vintage line, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Mattel owns the toy rights. And that's based on your comment exactly...
    Boom... and there ya go.
    cogito ergo doleo

  2. #427
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,522
    Quote Originally Posted by jzguitars View Post
    As someone days away from publishing a book on the vintage line, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Mattel owns the toy rights. And that's based on your comment exactly...
    Thanks for that info. Good luck with your book. I imagine you can't post about it here but did you put up a thread or anything about it?

  3. #428
    SoH Supporter He-Dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    8,147
    Dreamworks owns Filmation and the rights to the Filmation library.

  4. #429
    Court Magician Oldfan87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by He-Dad View Post
    Dreamworks owns Filmation and the rights to the Filmation library.
    Yes, but Dreamworks apparently don't own the original toyline, the 200X series, MOTU revelation, the new CGI series, or the MOTU intellectual property as a whole. Mattel owns all of that.

  5. #430
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Not available to the fans, fair enough. But no one else? Literally, he came in here recently and said Mattel sold the rights in the 90s after a "bad year". You just have to look at this objectively. In all those years, literally no one else has come out to corroborate his story. No one. He is the only person on the planet it seems who has this information. In all those years, someone else would have backed him up by now. No one has, which is very telling.

    Mattel are re-launching the entire brand. That is a very expensive process with a lot of risks associated with it. Mattel are in growth mode now, exiting the turnaround mode. Why would they do this if they knew they were going to lose the rights in a year and a half? It’s moronic. Scott is sounding like a conspiracy theorist, and he is pegging this idea (and only him) for hits, which you and others are giving him. He obviously has no interest in working in this industry ever again, because if he did he wouldn't keep on making these ludicrous videos.
    A few months ago he mentioned in the comments that he's working on a yet to be announced independent toyline. Although, I don't think he's mentioned it since.

    My completely baseless theory is that it's the Power-Con line that was announced a while back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    I hope Mattel loses the license. Especially after they stole their “origins” idea from Super7
    How did they steal the Origins idea? Super7 did straight up vintage style figures, while Mattel's doing updated figures inspired by the vintage line. It's like the Star Wars Vintage Collection line compared to the Star Wars Retro Collection line (which is something you probably could argue was stolen from Super7 since Reaction figures were the hot thing for a while and still are to an extent).

  6. #431
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,522
    It seems like the toy rights are separate from the filmation rights. Kevin Smith said they couldn't do a straight up Filmation sequel.

    If Scott is reading this, he should specifically address that. In his latest video he spoke as if all the MOTU rights were consolidated. Not that he's the final word, but if he doesn't fully address it, it can feel like he's using weasel words, which he also just did a video on. I am not accusing him of that, by the way. I don't know anything about the situation first hand. It's frustrating not knowing who or what to trust.
    Last edited by jibernish; July 31, 2021 at 09:56am.

  7. #432
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    It seems like the toy rights are separate from the filmation rights. Kevin Smith said they couldn't do a straight up Filmation sequel.
    If Kevin Smith is implying they couldn't do a straight sequel to the Filmation series due to rights issues, then he's either lying or was given bad information.

    Super7 was able to do a straight animated sequel to the Filmation series. Super7 got the greenlight to do movie figures Scott claimed were impossible to get. Super7 released a line of 5.5" figures AND they were based on the Filmation series, two things Scott claimed Mattel would not approve and/or didn't have the rights to.

    Kevin Smith/Netflix/Rob David could have done a strict sequel to the Filmation series, had they wanted. Could've had Melendy Britt, Alan Oppenheimer and John Erwin reprise their original roles should the actors have wanted to reprise them. Could've reused Filmation cels and plots and characters and devices and and and... But they chose not to.

    It's a lot easier to say "we had to change so much because of rights issues" than it is to say "I'm not a He-Man fan, I don't care what fans want, I wrote non-fan fanfic because **** YOU, that's why... but we hope you'll blindly consume our content because it makes us money, but... if not, then **** off and grow up, you toxic manbaby." Just like it was easier to say (regarding Classics) that "those characters are off the table" than it is to learn how to file paperwork correctly.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  8. #433
    Evil Warrior Soulfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    If Kevin Smith is implying they couldn't do a straight sequel to the Filmation series due to rights issues, then he's either lying or was given bad information.

    Super7 was able to do a straight animated sequel to the Filmation series. Super7 got the greenlight to do movie figures Scott claimed were impossible to get. Super7 released a line of 5.5" figures AND they were based on the Filmation series, two things Scott claimed Mattel would not approve and/or didn't have the rights to.

    Kevin Smith/Netflix/Rob David could have done a strict sequel to the Filmation series, had they wanted. Could've had Melendy Britt, Alan Oppenheimer and John Erwin reprise their original roles should the actors have wanted to reprise them. Could've reused Filmation cels and plots and characters and devices and and and... But they chose not to.

    It's a lot easier to say "we had to change so much because of rights issues" than it is to say "I'm not a He-Man fan, I don't care what fans want, I wrote non-fan fanfic because **** YOU, that's why... but we hope you'll blindly consume our content because it makes us money, but... if not, then **** off and grow up, you toxic manbaby." Just like it was easier to say (regarding Classics) that "those characters are off the table" than it is to learn how to file paperwork correctly.
    Yes to all this. A friend of mine summed it up perfectly when he texted me after turning off the new series five minutes into the second episode; "I hate Kevin Smith". He isn't wrong there.

  9. #434
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    nWo Country
    Posts
    1,304
    I feel like the obvious "If this show literally used Filmation animation cels then only like 10 people would like it and everyone else on planet Earth would think it was ridiculous" is being overlooked here.

    I don't think anybody wanted a LITERAL Filmation redo. "Filmation-style tone and writing with modern art and animation", that I can believe.

    ((shrug))
    My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA

  10. #435
    Heroic Warrior Dina M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    244
    From what I gather, Alan Oppenheimer doesn't actually want to reprise his role as Skeletor. He's 91 and can't get the voice perfectly anymore, so he doesn't like to do it. And you know what? I think we owe it to him to respect his wishes. He was a great voice actor in his day, he's earned a rest, and he definitely has the right to say no. We don't have to automatically jump to "Kevin Smith sucks" every single time something isn't perfectly in line with what you think it should be.
    Don't think, that'll only confuse you.

  11. #436
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    From what I gather, Alan Oppenheimer doesn't actually want to reprise his role as Skeletor. He's 91 and can't get the voice perfectly anymore, so he doesn't like to do it. And you know what? I think we owe it to him to respect his wishes. He was a great voice actor in his day, he's earned a rest, and he definitely has the right to say no. We don't have to automatically jump to "Kevin Smith sucks" every single time something isn't perfectly in line with what you think it should be.
    I don't know if your post was directed toward me or not, but I clearly wrote "...should the actors have wanted to reprise [their original roles.]" My point was that there was no hindrance preventing Kevin Smith & Co. from using any Filmation element they wanted to use. They chose not to use much of anything and then blame it on rights issues as a cushion against criticism for the "love letter to fans" that is more of a break-up letter.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  12. #437
    Heroic Warrior Dina M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    I don't know if your post was directed toward me or not, but I clearly wrote "...should the actors have wanted to reprise [their original roles.]" My point was that there was no hindrance preventing Kevin Smith & Co. from using any Filmation element they wanted to use. They chose not to use much of anything and then blame it on rights issues as a cushion against criticism for the "love letter to fans" that is more of a break-up letter.
    Apparently there was a hindrance, or at least the representatives of Mattel told them there was. Kevin Smith is a filmmaker, not a lawyer or a legal expert. If Mattel tells him he can't do something, who is he to disagree?

    Rights issues are complicated, there's a whole mess of who gets to use what, and for what purpose, and in which countries, and who has to be paid off in order to give their approval to this or that, and how much money has to be paid for a toy to be produced versus an appearance in a cartoon, and what contracts need to be signed so that nobody tries to sue because everyone wants as much money as they can get... I've only briefly tried to look at rights issues when it came to an unrelated franchise, and got a headache.. and that was just idle curiosity. Imagine what a nightmare it is for those who actually do this for a living.
    Don't think, that'll only confuse you.

  13. #438
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Apparently there was a hindrance, or at least the representatives of Mattel told them there was. Kevin Smith is a filmmaker, not a lawyer or a legal expert. If Mattel tells him he can't do something, who is he to disagree?

    Rights issues are complicated, there's a whole mess of who gets to use what, and for what purpose, and in which countries, and who has to be paid off in order to give their approval to this or that, and how much money has to be paid for a toy to be produced versus an appearance in a cartoon, and what contracts need to be signed so that nobody tries to sue because everyone wants as much money as they can get... I've only briefly tried to look at rights issues when it came to an unrelated franchise, and got a headache.. and that was just idle curiosity. Imagine what a nightmare it is for those who actually do this for a living.
    It is actually what I do for a living.

    The Mattel/Filmation structure is about as straightforward as it gets. If Super7 could make a Filmation sequel, Netflix could as well. The difference is that Super7 wanted to make a Filmation sequel. Kevin Smith, who is on record as saying he was not a fan of MOTU (in 2010 and 2013) suddenly changed his tune when he was approached to write the series. Now he's a lifelong fan who just happens to think the original series was "kinda lame."
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  14. #439
    Heroic Warrior Dina M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    244
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.
    Last edited by Dina M; August 1, 2021 at 05:55am.
    Don't think, that'll only confuse you.

  15. #440
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,522
    I know Kevin Smith said he nearly hate watched Filmation.

    I think it seems to be true that Smith will change what he says depending on who he's talking to.

  16. #441
    Heroic Warrior motogp_fanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,431
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.
    Can't argue with how logical this post is.
    I agree.

    Sent from my vivo 1718 using Tapatalk
    By the power of Grayskull!!!!

  17. #442
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Buffalo,NY
    Posts
    1,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.
    7763455A-6608-44D8-9F23-1AD247716EC7 by Comedian Horseman, on Flickr
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  18. #443
    Heroic Warrior Baba1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by motogp_fanatic View Post
    Can't argue with how logical this post is.
    I agree.

    Sent from my vivo 1718 using Tapatalk
    I posted before I don’t fancy the direction of the show … so far. But an amazing comment.Thanks for sharing!

  19. #444
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    24,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.
    Well said, Dina!

  20. #445
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    nashville, tn
    Posts
    6,373
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.
    Agreed with all of this.
    cogito ergo doleo

  21. #446
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    108
    I’m new here but I’ve been following this for about a year since I first heard it after discovering origins. So I think somewhere there is a misunderstanding down the line and a confusion of Filmations rights and Mattel’s rights. Filmation made a deal with Mattel that they owned what they created for the show while Mattel would own what they created themselves with Filmation having right to refuse to use characters like Stinkor. They also had a big stake in She-Ra as Filmation staffers had largely created the back story and such for the characters. They even changed the designs from the toys in creating them for the cartoon such as the iconic She-Ra look not reflecting the Mattel toy. Parallel to Filmation Mattel had been, with DC, developing their own back story and world of Eternia in the mini comics. I think that what is being lost by Mattel isn’t He-man and the Masters but claims to the Filmation materials, that that is what was being paid royalties on and in 2023 Mattel will lose the rights to have first pass on toys for Filmation. Mattel obviously has entertainment rights to He-man judging by Netflix’s shows. Scott is wrong. The question is why is no one asking why a multi billion dollar company like Netflix willing to invest in a property with Mattel that will be lost on 2023? You think Netflix didn’t do the research on who owned Masters before signing the dotted line? Do you think Mattel would have withheld that knowledge and made themselves liable for a massive fraud lawsuit? The answer to both questions is simple: Netflix would not have signed that contract with Mattel if Mattel didn’t own the brand and/or were going to lose it in 2023. Mattel, a company in an upward swing isn’t going to risk everything to make a fast buck defrauding Netflix on Masters, a brand that in 2019, when these deals were inked, was kind of “ho hum” as far as the heat index went. Defrauding Netflix like that would end Mattel.

    So whatÂ’s going on then? IÂ’m sure 2023 is something, like I said I think whatÂ’s happening is Mattel will no longer have first pass on product relating to Filmation. Characters and story elements created specifically for Filmation will no longer be there for them to have first pass on, allowing Universal to offer licensing and even toys based on those derivative designs. Similar to the movie rights, Mattel wonÂ’t be able to crank out those products if they decide to do it. They may also lose She-Ra at that time since it is a wholly shared property and toys marketed specifically for the She-Ra line will no longer have first pass with Mattel, splitting the brand itself factually as opposed to just in practice. Netflix dealt with Dreamworks on She-Ra. The Horde? MOTU. She-Ra? PoP. Note in neither the Vintage line nor the Princesses of Power line that the Horde are not part of the toy lines in spite of the Horde and Hordak being a huge part of both series.

    Revelation itself takes minimally from Filmation. The majority is from the mini comics with very, very small bits of Eternity War. Roboto’s backstory is from Mattel, not Filmation. Grayskull as an illusion cast over the Hall of Elders is from a read along with cassette, I even remembered this from childhood and thought “hell yes” when they revealed that. These classic mini comics and the DC mini series introduced Prince Adam for example, it wasn’t a Filmation plot device. The mini comics were a more serious affair than the Filmation series, darker in a lot of ways for children’s fare. Revelation seems to avoid Filmation as much as possible. I’d be surprised if Skeletor’s origin wasn’t more akin to the early mini comics demon portrayal than the Keldor back story. It does retain some of the spirit of Filmation as shown in that first episode and the flashback sequences. Smith even said that Mattel told him the Filmation series was unavailable which tells me they sent him the mini comics and story Bible they created to develop the series and since in those mini comics it is never explicitly stated that Keldor is Skeletor? Well. It uses very selectively from 200x. King Grayskull for example.

    So Mattel isn’t losing MOTU and at this point, with the amount of money they and their business partners are investing in the brand it looks extremely unlikely that they are losing anything that really “matters” to the classic story. I don’t think, and I think it’s really petulant and childish that people say he is, that Scott is lying. He’s not. He’s not making it up because he opens himself to all sorts of bad, bad stuff. He’s just mistaken. Mattel doesn’t address the rumors because it’s bad business.

    As to conspiracy theories that Mattel is using revelation to drive MOTU into the ground value wise… that’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. They invested tons of cash in Origins and now Masterverse. They’re developing toys for a new series that is debuting in the fall or winter of 2022. It is not in their best interest, much like defrauding Netflix would be, to tank a brand that they have essentially revived with Origins just to basically snub Universal. They’re launching top notch products with new tooling, a full scale launch with play sets and vehicles. Nobody really does play sets anymore. Not on the scale of MOTU, except Mattel with their BvS batcave. Hasbro has done some small scale play sets but nothing like Grayskull. It just isn’t done as a centerpiece for a toy line like Grayskull. We don’t see Terrordromes, USS Flaggs, Grayskull, Snake Mountains, Death Stars, Hall of Justices, Etc like we did in the 80s and here is origins in a scale that doesn’t lend itself to modest sized play sets getting a play set and vehicles. The land shark is fricking HUGE. I got one Saturday. It’s not small. This doesn’t say “we are intentionally tanking the brand”. It says “we believe in the strength of this brand and that MOTU can become an inter generational toy like Transformers, Barbie, MLP, etc and are laying the groundwork for the future with families sharing these toys and experiences for generations to come. You don’t invest like this for a brand you’re about to lose.

  22. #447
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by Parzival View Post
    As to conspiracy theories that Mattel is using revelation to drive MOTU into the ground value wise… that’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. They invested tons of cash in Origins and now Masterverse. They’re developing toys for a new series that is debuting in the fall or winter of 2022. It is not in their best interest, much like defrauding Netflix would be, to tank a brand that they have essentially revived with Origins just to basically snub Universal. They’re launching top notch products with new tooling, a full scale launch with play sets and vehicles. Nobody really does play sets anymore. Not on the scale of MOTU, except Mattel with their BvS batcave. Hasbro has done some small scale play sets but nothing like Grayskull. It just isn’t done as a centerpiece for a toy line like Grayskull. We don’t see Terrordromes, USS Flaggs, Grayskull, Snake Mountains, Death Stars, Hall of Justices, Etc like we did in the 80s and here is origins in a scale that doesn’t lend itself to modest sized play sets getting a play set and vehicles. The land shark is fricking HUGE. I got one Saturday. It’s not small. This doesn’t say “we are intentionally tanking the brand”. It says “we believe in the strength of this brand and that MOTU can become an inter generational toy like Transformers, Barbie, MLP, etc and are laying the groundwork for the future with families sharing these toys and experiences for generations to come. You don’t invest like this for a brand you’re about to lose.
    I have heard in the past that the Playsets were like centerpiece of a collection I am hoping that if successful more companies will start doing more playsets. Mattel makes a lot of them for Barbie and Imaginext How cool could it be is Origins Castle Grayskull causes others to get back into Playsets.

  23. #448
    Anti-Bot oansun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Land of Kentuck
    Posts
    203
    I mean it's been said here and other places often but Mattel is a publicly traded company, and MOTU was one of their biggest brands ever even if it died off. Selling off the rights and not disclosing would be mentioned somewhere, and the stock market journalists were very much printing stories online in the mid 90's. It would be somewhere. I would be interested in what exactly a "royalty" paid per figure would be. I mean, when Super7 got the sublicense, it was through Mattel. And then they said Mattel told them it was over and taking it back.I mean, has Super7 ever said they paid a royalty to Universal? There are a lot of dangling threads that Scott absolutely refuses to address, but people lick it up every video

  24. #449
    SoH Supporter He-Dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    8,147
    Anything Filmation related does say under license of Classic Media. It's even on the new Hallmark ornament.

    I did some research on my own and this article breaks it down a little better than Scott's video.

    http://www.oafe.net/articulation/2106.php

  25. #450
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Dina M View Post
    Okay, you know better than me. If you say the rights issues are simple in this instance, I have no reason to doubt you.

    Not everyone has your insight, though. If I was working for Mattel and/or Netflix, and they told me "we don't have the rights to do this," I wouldn't have known any better. I would just have gone "okay" and taken for granted that I DIDN'T have the rights to do this. It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they might have been wrong. Like Kevin Smith, I'm not an expert on legal issues.

    And I don't know if you've noticed, but Kevin Smith is a talker. Dude rambles on at length if you let him. If you've seen any of those Q&A sessions, he can get one single question and turn the answer into a half hour monologue with numerous digressions, and it's taken for granted that not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously. He goes where the jokes are. He'll say something exaggerated for comedic effect one day, and the next he'll say something that contradicts it in some way because now he's aiming for a different joke, or trying to make a different point. He doesn't weigh his words carefully -- he's an entertainer, not a lawyer.

    So if he several years ago said he didn't like MOTU when it first came out... and then later on says that he DID watch it... and then AGAIN strikes a compromise with "I was 13, I thought it was lame but I watched it because nothing else was on", the truth is probably somewhere between all this. People change, opinions change, memories change. Even I've probably made some self-contradictory claims about things in my past if you scour my Internet history... not because I was consciously lying, but because memories aren't static. I forget some things, I remember them again, I go "wait, no, I wasn't THAT age when THIS happened, THIS happened first, and I actually did THIS as a result of THAT" and so on. My point is, demanding 100% accuracy and clarity from people at all times generally means you find that everyone's lying all the time.

    So... going through Kevin Smith's comments with a fine-toothed comb like he's on trial, just so you can triumphantly go "told you he was lying, hah, he sucks!" just kind of seems to me like you're looking for excuses to dunk on the dude.

    But what do I know? I liked Revelation.

    Nobody has scoured every word Kevin Smith ever wrote. If you search "Kevin Smith He-Man" prior to 2015, only two quotes come up, both of them saying he wasn't a fan. His 2010 quote from Wizard is pretty telling:

    [Kevin Smith is asked if he has contributed to the revolving door of MOTU screenplays being solicited]

    **** no. I wasn't a fan. That's a fan property. It's like when I did [the initial treatment for what ended up being Superman Returns], I was dealing with non-fans. I had to walk away. You can't approach something like Superman or He-Man from a position of a non-fan, or you end up with Superman flying Richard Pryor around. [Laughs]
    You can politely call his reversal of opinion and false memories of being a fan "BS," but I call it "I got a paycheck, and I'm a liar." He approached MOTU from the position of a non-fan, and we ended up with a dead He-Man in the first episode.

    Womp-womp-woooooomp.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •