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Thread: Mattel no longer owns the rights to MOTU?

  1. #726
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossMan710179 View Post
    Those days were great. Going to Wal-Mart at 12-3am hoping to find something new just as it's being put on the shelf. I found a Teela variant that I had to hide in the cereal aisle because I hadn't gotten paid yet that day, and when I went back my friends thought it was funny and crazy that I hid a toy...
    Oh man... I think we have all done this at some point in our collecting careers.

    I remember when I was a rabid Kenner Aliens/Predator collector and I had to hide an Alien Queen behind some Barbie Deluxe Hairstyling kits at Toys R Us, to retrieve later that day, lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by ehenyo View Post
    Did Mattel lose the rights yet?
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  2. #727
    Court Magician Oldfan87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    That may not mean all that much. It’s possible that Mattel sold the property but still currently owns it. I’m not saying it’s true, but it’s possible.
    Usually with an IP sale, the copyright and Trademarks change hands very, very quickly after the contracts are signed, unless there is a special clause or agreement in the contract. Toyguru is claiming that the MOTU/PoP IP was sold around 1995 or so, with the stipulation in the contract that the copyrights and trademark wouldn't officially change hands for almost 30 years, but the former IP holder pays royalties to the purchaser during that time period, and the seller is allowed to keep the trademarks and copyrights for 30 years on paper as a 'courtesy'....

    ...I'm no businessman, but that sounds like an insane contract to me...

  3. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    That may not mean all that much. It’s possible that Mattel sold the property but still currently owns it. I’m not saying it’s true, but it’s possible.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, Mattel lost the rights. I won it in a poker game from Matty Mattel back in 2004.
    Not thirty years ago that’s for danged sure. His claim relies on them selling it in the 90s during a lean period. Not five years, not ten plus legally, had they sold it, again, they legally have to indicate the proper owner from the date of sale. Legally. Period. There is no way around it. They would legally have to indicate that Universal owns it because they are a publicly traded company with investors. There is no record of sale, there is no indication of anyone else… ever… owning MOTU beyond Filmation retaining rights to the animated series of which, yes, THOSE rights sold to Hallmark and then a series of others and then to DreamworksUniversal in the end. That initial sale happened in the 90s but it wasn’t Mattel selling it. It was Filmation going out of business and their piece of the pie, the animated series distribution and likeness rights, going with them. Just like the Fox Kids X-Men and Spider-man cartoons being out of Marvel Entertainment’s control because Disney had purchased the rights to Fox Kids and owned those series and Marvel couldn’t use the style of animation etc until they too were bought by Disney. They couldn’t put out animated series shirts, toys, games, socks etc without Disney. That’s all that there is any record of sale for… Filmation.


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    This is the sale that is probably the source of his confusion.




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    The Undisputed Champion TUC138's Avatar
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    Funny how things was back in the day when Scott was in charge of the line. Accuse him as liar & you'll be blasted off the forums in matter of minutes.
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  6. #731
    Heroic Warrior Wakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    the miserable 200X toy hunts...
    Man, I still have PTSD.

    My worst memory: someone here on the org (don't remember who) posted in one of the 200x "found it!" threads that he had just picked up Two Bad and Whiplash at a Walmart about 45 minutes away from me. Didn't bother to note whether or not there were still some on the pegs or if he had gotten the last ones. So I IMMEDIATELY responded to the thread and PM'd him as well. No response. No response. No response. It was around midnight, so I remember literally pacing the floor debating whether to make a 45 minute run to Walmart or chance it the next day. It was a constant source of irritation back then when people would post their finds and where they found them, but not bother to mention whether there were any figures left behind.

    In the end, I made the midnight run, and was able to get the lone Whiplash on the pegs. No Two Bad in sight. And the OP never responded any of my messages. I'm still mad at him, whoever he is.
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  7. #732
    Anti-Bot oansun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    Man, I still have PTSD.

    My worst memory: someone here on the org (don't remember who) posted in one of the 200x "found it!" threads that he had just picked up Two Bad and Whiplash at a Walmart about 45 minutes away from me. Didn't bother to note whether or not there were still some on the pegs or if he had gotten the last ones. So I IMMEDIATELY responded to the thread and PM'd him as well. No response. No response. No response. It was around midnight, so I remember literally pacing the floor debating whether to make a 45 minute run to Walmart or chance it the next day. It was a constant source of irritation back then when people would post their finds and where they found them, but not bother to mention whether there were any figures left behind.

    In the end, I made the midnight run, and was able to get the lone Whiplash on the pegs. No Two Bad in sight. And the OP never responded any of my messages. I'm still mad at him, whoever he is.
    I had to finish off the line at conventions, luckily it was like right when the line was ending so it wasn't much more than retail. origins may as well just be like on demand compared to new characters in 200x or matty day of sales

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Parzival View Post
    Not thirty years ago that’s for danged sure. His claim relies on them selling it in the 90s during a lean period. Not five years, not ten plus legally, had they sold it, again, they legally have to indicate the proper owner from the date of sale. Legally. Period. There is no way around it. They would legally have to indicate that Universal owns it because they are a publicly traded company with investors. There is no record of sale, there is no indication of anyone else… ever… owning MOTU beyond Filmation retaining rights to the animated series of which, yes, THOSE rights sold to Hallmark and then a series of others and then to DreamworksUniversal in the end. That initial sale happened in the 90s but it wasn’t Mattel selling it. It was Filmation going out of business and their piece of the pie, the animated series distribution and likeness rights, going with them. Just like the Fox Kids X-Men and Spider-man cartoons being out of Marvel Entertainment’s control because Disney had purchased the rights to Fox Kids and owned those series and Marvel couldn’t use the style of animation etc until they too were bought by Disney. They couldn’t put out animated series shirts, toys, games, socks etc without Disney. That’s all that there is any record of sale for… Filmation.


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    im still waiting for any person to provide any sort of precedent for this situation.
    It is very clear Scott does not understand legal writing and business, which is ok! Most people don't, that's why you go to school. He went for film and marketing, he read something on a paper wrong, made a bad claim, and doubled down because (as evidenced too many times on this board) he cannot admit when he is wrong. He said "do your own research," we did and he's wrong. But, some people just like his videos that repeat the same bad info and no matter actual facts you, I and many others have explicitly provided it is always "ok well maybe it happened. It's POSSIBLE" (and no its not actually possible but whatever) or "well he worked there so he must know." These are people that have never dealt with a corporation.
    Scott provided factual evidence on "Wonder Bread He-Man" and that ruled. But he refuses to do that here. So, that should say it all. Anyway.

  8. #733
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Oh man... I think we have all done this at some point in our collecting careers.

    I remember when I was a rabid Kenner Aliens/Predator collector and I had to hide an Alien Queen behind some Barbie Deluxe Hairstyling kits at Toys R Us, to retrieve later that day, lol.
    When I find hidden toys I giddily return them to the peg and often make sure they are right out front. Hiding toys is childish... full stop. Hiding toys under the bottom shelf at Target or in the POP section also at Target, or (in the case referenced here) in the cereal aisle deprives that store of a ready made sale. Also, collectors sometimes don't return to pay for the toy they've hidden , so it languishes and collects dust depending on how well it's been hidden. If you don't have the money be an adult and leave that toy where it is. If you can't afford it wait until you can. Levels the playing field and doesn't deprive a child or fellow collector of that same toy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    When I find hidden toys I giddily return them to the peg and often make sure they are right out front. Hiding toys is childish... full stop. Hiding toys under the bottom shelf at Target or in the POP section also at Target, or (in the case referenced here) in the cereal aisle deprives that store of a ready made sale. Also, collectors sometimes don't return to pay for the toy they've hidden , so it languishes and collects dust depending on how well it's been hidden. If you don't have the money be an adult and leave that toy where it is. If you can't afford it wait until you can. Levels the playing field and doesn't deprive a child or fellow collector of that same toy.
    Yeah I found my origins Fisto hidden in the art supplies section not very well hidden behind art caddies. I wasn’t interested in him at all and almost put him in the toy section and then was like dang, he actually looks amazing. Bought it. Thanks toy fan who was trying to game the system!


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  10. #735
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parzival View Post
    Yeah I found my origins Fisto hidden in the art supplies section not very well hidden behind art caddies. I wasn’t interested in him at all and almost put him in the toy section and then was like dang, he actually looks amazing. Bought it. Thanks toy fan who was trying to game the system!


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    Sometimes legit a kid asks for a figure and even carries it around until a parent decides the child doesn't really want it or the kid decides against a purchase, but more often the toy is grabbed by an adult collector with intent to hide.
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  11. #736
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    So the new netflix cartoon has Mattel trademarks allllllll over the credits FYI.

    Screen Shot 2021-09-16 at 6.15.35 PM.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    Sometimes legit a kid asks for a figure and even carries it around until a parent decides the child doesn't really want it or the kid decides against a purchase, but more often the toy is grabbed by an adult collector with intent to hide.
    It is pretty obvious when it is a kid just hauling it aroudn the store and someone trying to hide it on purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    So the new netflix cartoon has Mattel trademarks allllllll over the credits FYI.

    Screen Shot 2021-09-16 at 6.15.35 PM.jpg




    It is pretty obvious when it is a kid just hauling it aroudn the store and someone trying to hide it on purpose.
    How long do you think before someone says that's not definitive enough proof?

  13. #738
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    How long do you think before someone says that's not definitive enough proof?
    1-2 posts lol
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  14. #739
    Mer-Man Repaint Stinkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    1-2 posts lol
    Glad I made it before the two post limit.

  15. #740
    Loco Motu Vato ehenyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    1-2 posts lol
    Not definitive proof. This specific work, because it is so unique, is theirs. LOL
    "I wouldn't be surprised if this movie has Adam as a skinny nerd from Earth battling another skinny nerd-hacker from Earth that used an alias of Keldor. They then enter Tron-style to a cyber world called Eternia, where they control muscle-bound avatars to battle (called He-Man and Skeletor). And these same avatars come to life and continue to battle in present-day Earth." - VZX

  16. #741
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Scooter has a new video up this morning that, even from the title, seems to be implying fans are in denial about the trademark rights. It's titled "Why emotionally fueled opinions are bad...". Admittedly I haven't watched it yet, but I have a feeling it's going to be all about how fans are being too emotional about this topic and that we all need to simply accept the inevitable.

    Better go watch it first and then come back and amend or add to this post accordingly.

    EDIT: Ok, totally not about MOTU TM rights or anything of the sort. Shame on me for only going based on a thumbnail. But he did, at the very end, add what I'll call a zinger (depending on how deeply you want to read into his comments) about spreading facts. I say zinger because there is a fair bit of irony in that statement.
    Last edited by Stygian360; September 17, 2021 at 09:24am.
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  17. #742
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stygian360 View Post
    Scooter has a new video up this morning that, even from the title, seems to be implying fans are in denial about the trademark rights. It's titled "Why emotionally fueled opinions are bad...". Admittedly I haven't watched it yet, but I have a feeling it's going to be all about how fans are being too emotional about this topic and that we all need to simply accept the inevitable.

    Better go watch it first and then come back and amend or add to this post accordingly.

    EDIT: Ok, totally not about MOTU TM rights or anything of the sort. Shame on me for only going based on a thumbnail. But he did, at the very end, add what I'll call a zinger (depending on how deeply you want to read into his comments) about spreading facts. I say zinger because there is a fair bit of irony in that statement.
    Scott is really straying too far from his bread and butter, and it's making his channel and the attention he's getting more annoying by the day. He really should stick to his insights for specific Classics figures and the line in general. That is what made his channel worth visiting, but he's getting distracted with a bunch of other crap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Maybe this is mean, but perhaps it's time for someone at Mattel to talk to someone in their legal department about this Scott guy and his repeated false statements, assuming (as I do) that they are indeed false.

    The stuff he says can potentially have a detrimental effect on both consumer and investor confidence, which in turn affects Mattel's bottom line. Fans and investors may be hesitant to invest in a brand they feel will be "moving on" in the near future. Even if it's a few, it's still money lost. And many people DO believe the "Mattel doesn't own MOTU" rumors, I see it almost every day... along with people saying stuff like "Hah! You think Mattel owns MOTU, you big dummy." There are plenty of people taking the guy's words as fact, regardless of evidence or what Mattel says.

    Perhaps he's beneath their level of caring. Obviously they noticed, they addressed the issue publicly. But some still refuse to believe, which means the damage has already been done.

    If I'm high-up at Mattel... and my company DOES indeed own MOTU... and this guy is out there stirring the pot, upsetting my business... and I can prove him wrong... at this point, I'm talking to my legal team and saying "So what do we do about this guy?"

    Maybe they think that's too petty, or heavy-handed. I don't know. It's not. By this point it'd be a reasonable response to at least have the conversation.

    Of course... I guess the thing is, they'd have to prove that Scott's false statements have cost Mattel money on the brand... and the MOTU brand is apparently doing gangbusters right now, so that'd be hard to prove. Maybe that's why they don't do anything to go after him.

    I don't know, man. Since it appears he's very much wrong in this I'd love for him to stop stirring the pot. I wasn't around for Classics so while I'm grateful they exist and for what he apparently did Then, it doesn't excuse what he's doing Now. He comes off as a bitter ex doing whatever they can to get attention; whatever reputation and legacy he built for himself is getting pretty tarnished.

    If I'm Mattel, I've had enough of this guy. And I'm at the least consulting with my lawyer at this point.
    I totally get what you're saying, but I think you're giving Scott too much credit if you think he's on Mattel's radar in any significant way. Actually somebody commented on his recent video about the Power Con reveals, asking him if he's concerned about irritating Mattel with the things he says in his videos, and he responded by saying that he doubts that anyone at Mattel would even be aware that his channel exists.

  18. #743
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Aware of TG's channel in any significant way, probably not. But I have to imagine there are people still working at Mattel that he rubbed the wrong way and might be aware it exists, might tune in just to see. Again, probably not in a significant way. I felt like maybe in the Mattel panel one or two of the guys were aware but didn't want to say anything. They do read the boards and social media, so they probably do know, but I would think he's more of a fly at their picnic than a legit concern.

    But what do I know.

  19. #744
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    Scott is really straying too far from his bread and butter, and it's making his channel and the attention he's getting more annoying by the day. He really should stick to his insights for specific Classics figures and the line in general. That is what made his channel worth visiting, but he's getting distracted with a bunch of other crap.
    Agreed, he should stay in his lane and "stick to the facts" as he's fond of saying, but on the flip side and in the interests of fairness, leveraging his industry know how is fine to a point and videos like this can be informative. For instance, I learned about the scientifically derived nature of planograms and how toys sell at an 80/20 ratio favoring children and gift givers as far as overall sales, and why this is super important to toy companies. As collectors we often think toy lines (especially those at big box as it pertains to this topic) are made for adult collectors when they definitely are not (at least not entirely). I remember reading that toy companies back in the 80's often found collectors annoying and certainly didn't consider them even a blip on the radar as far as toy sales bottom line. That's obviously changed today, but taking the past and Scott's comments as perspective and context, his videos do help flesh out the reality of toy buying/selling. All of that to say, Scott has some helpful things to say, but mostly he spouts whatever's on his mind these days and to your point, that's not his bread and butter and I feel causes him to overstep. Especially when presenting glorified opinions based on logical fallacies and incorrect assumptions as facts.
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  20. #745
    In Stereo Where Available Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    I totally get what you're saying, but I think you're giving Scott too much credit if you think he's on Mattel's radar in any significant way. Actually somebody commented on his recent video about the Power Con reveals, asking him if he's concerned about irritating Mattel with the things he says in his videos, and he responded by saying that he doubts that anyone at Mattel would even be aware that his channel exists.
    Maybe the higher-ups at Mattel have no idea, but it is clear that some people there are paying attention (whether directly or by reading threads like this one) since Mattel's Power-Con presentation flat out started by addressing the 2023 issue. If they weren't paying any attention, then they wouldn't have addressed that at all.
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  21. #746
    Heroic Warrior Stygian360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Maybe the higher-ups at Mattel have no idea, but it is clear that some people there are paying attention (whether directly or by reading threads like this one) since Mattel's Power-Con presentation flat out started by addressing the 2023 issue. If they weren't paying any attention, then they wouldn't have addressed that at all.
    Using deductive logic one can make a safe assumption that someone at Mattel is aware of the brew-ha-ha about rights as a concern, or they wouldn't have literally directly addressed it at Power con. That's how I see it anyway.
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  22. #747
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Well, on the health of the line front….I did ask the toy manager at my Walmart why the origins went on clearance (we have from what I can see on shelf and in top stock 35 or so he-mans and skeletors) he said there is another new Planogram coming soon. He believes it’s to address all of the empty pegs. So if a store is not able to secure enough stock of a sku, it’s gone. Also to address anything not selling…..which is odd at this time of year. With such empty shelves you would think stores would keep everything full price.

    My conclusion….again my conclusion from 30 plus years of toy collecting is…..my store can not secure enough of the mixed origins sku to warrant having a spot. My next conclusion is he-man and skeletor are not selling to the liking of at least my store. Now I know this is just one persons experience in one store but I’m putting this out there.

    Masterverse however received a price increase to $21.49 and looks to be staying.

    I’ll let people draw their own conclusions on the health of the line.

    I will add, on the mattel boys front…..WWE is falling off the pegs and top stock…..it’s selling…..but I’m in shock with how much keeps coming in. Jurassic park has but a few dinos on shelve….literally 4. I counted and a 6 foot spot. There are no clearance tags for them. As soon as Jurassic park toys come in they are gone. Hot wheels…..this Walmart has received 9 cases in the last 2 weeks and there are 5…..yes 5 hot wheels single cars left…..matchbox is also flying out as soon as it hits the pegs.
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    Mer-Man Repaint Stinkor's Avatar
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    I’ve enjoyed playing detective more than I thought I would, and I can still think of scenarios where Scott is correct, but the most interesting piece to me is the specific date of 2023. Where did it come from? I don’t think Scott brazenly lied and picked an arbitrary date to sound more credible. So I’d be surprised if something isn’t happening in 2023.

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    Heroic Warrior Reviews2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    I’ve enjoyed playing detective more than I thought I would, and I can still think of scenarios where Scott is correct, but the most interesting piece to me is the specific date of 2023. Where did it come from? I don’t think Scott brazenly lied and picked an arbitrary date to sound more credible. So I’d be surprised if something isn’t happening in 2023.
    It was said somewhere earlier in the thread but Sony should be losing the rights to a MOTU movie in 2023
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    Mer-Man Repaint Stinkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviews2D View Post
    It was said somewhere earlier in the thread but Sony should be losing the rights to a MOTU movie in 2023
    That’s a good point and definite possibly, but my understanding is, and I may be wrong, Sony was in danger of losing those rights for well over a decade if they weren’t in development of a movie, which is why we’ve seen so many half-hearted attempts and failures at launching the film. So Sony losing the rights was never tied to 2023.

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