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Thread: Mattel no longer owns the rights to MOTU?

  1. #326
    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    I made a distinction between characters and elements, not because they would necessarily be licensed separately, but because they are distinctly different things. For example, Shadow Weaver is a licensed character, because Filmation created her, not Mattel. Whereas Club Grayksull He-Man has licensed elements, because Mattel created He-Man, but Filmation created that specific design of him.

    It was necessary to reach a licensing agreement with DreamWorks to produce figures of Filmation characters or to use other Filmation elements. That is why Classics was originally limited to characters that had been produced as a vintage toy.
    Cool, thanks for the explanation! This kind of stuff is fascinating.

  2. #327
    Heroic Warrior ToyCulture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzguitars View Post
    Second, MOTU was never a "dead brand", dormant at times between iterations sure, but never dead.
    MOTU was pretty dead after "New Adventures" and no one really cared. They didnt even keep the original tooling or prototypes. (From his book, Roger Sweet took home the very early prototypes after Mattel fired him.)

    Quote Originally Posted by jzguitars View Post
    And let's not forget Mattel hitting Top Toys with a cease and desist in 2003 when they produced the Fuerza T line...if Mattel didn't own the IP, how could they enforce a cease and desist?
    If you are a license holder you can obviously enforce your rights to the license. Who else should?

    Quote Originally Posted by jzguitars View Post
    So we KNOW Mattel didn't sell the brand in the 90's
    What?

    Remember who blocked James Eatocks "Return of Faker"? It was NBC Universal, not Mattel.

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossMan710179 View Post
    Scott isn't very liked in the toy industry, and has been fired from Mattel and Jakks, and I believe one more. He's on his own and knows that to gain an audience online with a niche market, you've got to play dirty to get them view and revenue...
    And Loot Crate, and Entertainment Earth, and Jada. Mattel is the only place he lasted more than 6 months.

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    MOTU was pretty dead after "New Adventures" and no one really cared. They didnt even keep the original tooling or prototypes. (From his book, Roger Sweet took home the very early prototypes after Mattel fired him.)



    If you are a license holder you can obviously enforce your rights to the license. Who else should?



    What?

    Remember who blocked James Eatocks "Return of Faker"? It was NBC Universal, not Mattel.
    With the Return of Faker thing, that may be because it used Filmation stuff (designs, music, and if I remember correctly, backgrounds too)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by snake_mole_hill View Post
    And Loot Crate, and Entertainment Earth, and Jada. Mattel is the only place he lasted more than 6 months.
    Wait, is that an exaggeration or did he actually get dumped that quickly?

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooperScoop View Post
    With the Return of Faker thing, that may be because it used Filmation stuff (designs, music, and if I remember correctly, backgrounds too)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wait, is that an exaggeration or did he actually get dumped that quickly?
    No exaggeration at all. He went through 4 jobs in 3 years.

  6. #331
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    Remember who blocked James Eatocks "Return of Faker"? It was NBC Universal, not Mattel.
    Ummm....yes, because its a Filmation-inspired fan film.

    Personally, I think people really need to take off their Classics-gratitude goggles and really think about what Toyguru is suggesting here. But, you know, if people want to continue to believe that Toyguru is the only human being on the planet who remembers that Mattel unceremoniously sold off one of their one-time biggest brands a mere decade after it was at its biggest, hey, more power to them.
    Last edited by Krueger; April 16, 2021 at 07:36pm.

  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_mole_hill View Post
    No exaggeration at all. He went through 4 jobs in 3 years.
    I feel like the personal attacks on Scott’s character have gone too far. Yes, I dislike The Mighty Spector as much as anyone and wish he’d finally admit that the reversed forearms on Classics Stinkor was a factory mistake, but I don’t see any evidence that he’s a such a terrible person to deserve this much hate.

  8. #333
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post

    Remember who blocked James Eatocks "Return of Faker"? It was NBC Universal, not Mattel.
    That is because they still own the filmation rights. but they don't own motu.
    cogito ergo doleo

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    MOTU was pretty dead after "New Adventures" and no one really cared. They didnt even keep the original tooling or prototypes. (From his book, Roger Sweet took home the very early prototypes after Mattel fired him.)
    So Mattel, in 1993, with New Adventures still on the shelves in stores all over the world (in fact, the 1992 figures were just hitting Europe) and with the NA show still playing in syndication across the US, decides to sell the franchise? That's not "dead."

    I mean, all this speculation can be put to rest if someone produces a bill of sale from 1993 showing Mattel sold the IP.



    If you are a license holder you can obviously enforce your rights to the license. Who else should?

    What?

    Remember who blocked James Eatocks "Return of Faker"? It was NBC Universal, not Mattel.

    And Classic Media initially blocked Super7's Curse of the Three Terrors. Guess who stepped in to remind Classic Media that they only owned specific rights to the franchise, not the franchise itself? It was Mattel, who licensed the use of their characters to Super7 for use in that cartoon.

    What Scott and several people here seem to have done is mistake an entity that owns certain elements or rights, or has licensed said elements or rights from the IP holder, as the actual IP owner. That's like misconstruing Val Staples or Dark Horse as being the "real" owners of MOTU because their names are all over the Character Guide book.

    Please, before speculating further, let Scott produce a public record of this 1993 sale or transfership to back up his claims. I keep getting a vibe from this thread that's similar to a bunch of flat earth enthusiasts who "want to believe."
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  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    I feel like the personal attacks on Scott’s character have gone too far. Yes, I dislike The Mighty Spector as much as anyone and wish he’d finally admit that the reversed forearms on Classics Stinkor was a factory mistake, but I don’t see any evidence that he’s a such a terrible person to deserve this much hate.
    I wasn’t directing any hate. I just stated a fact of all the places he worked in a short period of time. Many, many people did not care for working with the guy. I don’t think that means he’s a bad person or something.

  11. #336
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    Draego Man was a knockout that everyone seemed to love (the 4H designed him, and they "get" MOTU), Sir Laser Lot was "meh" (decent concept and sculpt but very bland colour scheme)...
    I do not care for Draego Man. He seems like a fith-year Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles character to me.

  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_mole_hill View Post
    I wasn’t directing any hate. I just stated a fact of all the places he worked in a short period of time. Many, many people did not care for working with the guy. I don’t think that means he’s a bad person or something.
    I was talking about the thread in general. I shouldn’t have left my comment as a reply to yours and make it seem like it was directed to you personally. My mistake. I apologize.

  13. #338
    Heroic Warrior ToyCulture's Avatar
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    Maybe this is all fake news.

    I did a search in the US trademark office for Masters of the Universe and all records indicate to Mattel:
    shorturl.at/psCF3

    Same for the German Patents- and brand office showing repeated renewal of the trademark after expiry.
    Fun fact, they even have a scan of the original registration from 1984.


  14. #339
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_mole_hill View Post
    I wasn’t directing any hate. I just stated a fact of all the places he worked in a short period of time. Many, many people did not care for working with the guy. I don’t think that means he’s a bad person or something.
    Of course, it doesn't mean he's a horrible human being. As you suggest, no one anywhere in this thread has made that accusation. And rightfully so. However, after having worked in the hospitality sector for years, sometimes in a supervisory role, whilst obviously not being the same line of work, I came to be very suspicious of new employees who seemed to bounce from job to job with great frequency, never seeming to stay at the same place long enough. I realised, most of the time at least, there was always a good reason.

  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    I feel like the personal attacks on Scott’s character have gone too far. Yes, I dislike The Mighty Spector as much as anyone and wish he’d finally admit that the reversed forearms on Classics Stinkor was a factory mistake, but I don’t see any evidence that he’s a such a terrible person to deserve this much hate.
    I usually steer clear of any threads that start to involve Scott...

    Too often people start attacking his character, personal life, career decisions, etc. It's really sad to me when I see the vitriol of which some people are capable... even when they have never met the man.

    The saddest part is that this was happening even during the heyday MOTUC...



    I don't know what the current rights/ownership/IP situation is right now... but, I wouldn't want this kind of behavior to be directed toward anyone in this hobby. (Except for maybe those eBay resellers.... )
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  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    I do not care for Draego Man. He seems like a fith-year Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles character to me.
    That's funny because I always say that whoever was in charge of creating new characters for the TMNT toyline was basically following a mandate of "Just do MOTU on crack".

    But, yes, Draego Man is essentially TMNT's own Hot Head.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    I usually steer clear of any threads that start to involve Scott...

    Too often people start attacking his character, personal life, career decisions, etc. It's really sad to me when I see the vitriol of which some people are capable... even when they have never met the man.
    I think the guy did an amazing job (basically perfect) with MOTUC and I've always been supportive... almost "unnaturally defensive" of "that" Scott considering that MOTUC did have drawbacks that I personally overlooked but others were quite irritated by.

    The current issue I have is that I can't pass on what I've learned via Scott's channel --- particularly about Mattel's relationship with their MOTU IP ---- without people telling me I'm wrong, and investing myself in a con man who values channel hits over integrity.

    That said: I will continue to leave it open that maybe it will eventually come out that Scott was under some kind of NDA that stopped him from explaining a truth that actually had ONE BIT OF PROOF behind it.

    Til then?

    I'll defend Scott's MOTU contributions as passionately as ever... but primarily because of what this thread's main subject is examining, I will never disparage those questioning Scott's honesty toward the consumer public on major issues.

    I consider "distributing facts on brand ownership" a relatively cut & dry major issue with (again, relatively) no nuance whatsoever... "Stinkor arms" or "Hoverboard stickers", not so much because there's all different variables that go into toy production and the debate on those issues can go any number of avenues.

    That said: For Scott, who has brought so much to the MOTU table, I wish peace .... and, similarly, I wish peace for all involved in our toy collecting fandom. But not at the expense of the search for truth.
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  17. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webstor's Ghost View Post
    That's funny because I always say that whoever was in charge of creating new characters for the TMNT toyline was basically following a mandate of "Just do MOTU on crack".

    But, yes, Draego Man is essentially TMNT's own Hot Head.
    Didn't Mark Taylor work on TMNT after he left Mattel? That would certainly explain that similarity.

    As far as the topic of the thread, I think it's been covered well that he was either mistaken in his understanding or chose to misconstrue information he had, as Mattel owns MOTU itself; it's simply various licensing rights that will expire or change. It's similar to how Hasbro had the rights to use a specific version of the Veritech fighter to give us Jetfire back in the day, but couldn't use its appearance on the cartoon, and now they still own the character Jetfire/Skyfire, but can't use the Veritech look for him.

  18. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwannalook View Post
    Didn't Mark Taylor work on TMNT after he left Mattel? That would certainly explain that similarity.

    And Errol McCarthy. His involvement in early TMNT, like MOTU, is often overshadowed by Taylor.
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  19. #344
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webstor's Ghost View Post
    I think the guy did an amazing job (basically perfect) with MOTUC and I've always been supportive... almost "unnaturally defensive" of "that" Scott considering that MOTUC did have drawbacks that I personally overlooked but others were quite irritated by.

    The current issue I have is that I can't pass on what I've learned via Scott's channel --- particularly about Mattel's relationship with their MOTU IP ---- without people telling me I'm wrong, and investing myself in a con man who values channel hits over integrity.

    That said: I will continue to leave it open that maybe it will eventually come out that Scott was under some kind of NDA that stopped him from explaining a truth that actually had ONE BIT OF PROOF behind it.

    Til then?

    I'll defend Scott's MOTU contributions as passionately as ever... but primarily because of what this thread's main subject is examining, I will never disparage those questioning Scott's honesty toward the consumer public on major issues.

    I consider "distributing facts on brand ownership" a relatively cut & dry major issue with (again, relatively) no nuance whatsoever... "Stinkor arms" or "Hoverboard stickers", not so much because there's all different variables that go into toy production and the debate on those issues can go any number of avenues.

    That said: For Scott, who has brought so much to the MOTU table, I wish peace .... and, similarly, I wish peace for all involved in our toy collecting fandom. But not at the expense of the search for truth.
    I do not think anyone is suggesting that he is being dishonest, only that he is wrong. Now, everyone is entitled to be wrong sometimes, but this is supposed to be his area of professional expertise. So if he is wrong about such a fundamental issue, then it really calls into question the other opinions expressed in his videos. And that is the basis for the criticism he is receiving: he is sharing incorrect information, which is misinforming other people. The ownership of Masters of the Universe is not in question, and would not be the subject of a thread, but for the fact that Scott periodically repeats this misinformation in his YouTube videos, which drives his viewers here for corroboration. This issue was settled in this thread four years ago, until he repeated the same misinformation again in a video a week ago.

  20. #345
    Heroic Warrior Webstor's Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwannalook View Post
    Didn't Mark Taylor work on TMNT after he left Mattel? That would certainly explain that similarity.
    Dang, that rung some bells. My ability to retain info is so weak. It's cool that Taylor was involved with both lines. As bad as I am with history, my tastes/perception of the toylines stay intact. Thank goodness!

    Speaking of "memory" ... as in Scott's memory of the MOTU rights issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by justwannalook View Post
    As far as the topic of the thread, I think it's been covered well that he was either mistaken in his understanding or chose to misconstrue information he had, as Mattel owns MOTU itself; it's simply various licensing rights that will expire or change. It's similar to how Hasbro had the rights to use a specific version of the Veritech fighter to give us Jetfire back in the day, but couldn't use its appearance on the cartoon, and now they still own the character Jetfire/Skyfire, but can't use the Veritech look for him.
    Simple brand licensing 101 right there.

    And that's my point.

    I think that someone in Scott's position is too educated to be oblivious to the most basic machinations of business, so, in my humble opinion, he either (as you suggested as one possibility) chose to misconstrue info, or is unable to explain further either ethically or legally... the latter of which leaves an opening that Scott is neither extremely oblivious or deliberately misrepresenting the truth (directly or by malicious omission).

    I concede that where I'm likely being most unreasonable toward Scott is my inability to see him being that oblivious... it's like I'd rather attribute bad intent to him than lack of business savvy/basic knowledge... which is a compliment in a way.

    Or my logic could be entirely wrong... but beyond what my Net research and the clarity of the interactions of the contributors this thread can provide? The case is closed for now, and I, the highly reverent fan of "MOTUC" Scott (no better toyline has ever been willed into existence IMHO), am also currently not a big fan of "Toy Guru" Scott... my stubborn brain has trouble reconciling the current variables to value (and/or trust) his toy branding insight as highly as I did before... such is life. Maybe one day something new will come to light and that will change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    And Errol McCarthy. His involvement in early TMNT, like MOTU, is often overshadowed by Taylor.
    ^^^Another cool factoid, for sure!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    I do not think anyone is suggesting that he is being dishonest, only that he is wrong. Now, everyone is entitled to be wrong sometimes, but this is supposed to be his area of professional expertise. So if he is wrong about such a fundamental issue, then it really calls into question the other opinions expressed in his videos. And that is the basis for the criticism he is receiving: he is sharing incorrect information, which is misinforming other people. The ownership of Masters of the Universe is not in question, and would not be the subject of a thread, but for the fact that Scott periodically repeats this misinformation in his YouTube videos, which drives his viewers here for corroboration. This issue was settled in this thread four years ago, until he repeated the same misinformation again in a video a week ago.
    I'm a bit more skeptical that he could be that misinformed on such a simple thing... but that is always possible... For better or worse, your take explains my current POV perfectly. It just took me longer to get there. Cheers.
    Last edited by Webstor's Ghost; April 18, 2021 at 04:16pm.
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  21. #346
    The Undisputed Champion TUC138's Avatar
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    Either way... I always felt Mattel treated MOTU brand way lesser than what it should have been. I mean, look, all these years, you made character cars & vehicles from so many different properties in Hot Wheels. And yet, you only started making your own property (MOTU) vehicles (3 as of now) since 2019 !

    Not So Cool Mattel !!
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  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webstor's Ghost View Post
    I think the guy did an amazing job (basically perfect) with MOTUC and I've always been supportive... almost "unnaturally defensive" of "that" Scott considering that MOTUC did have drawbacks that I personally overlooked but others were quite irritated by.

    The current issue I have is that I can't pass on what I've learned via Scott's channel --- particularly about Mattel's relationship with their MOTU IP ---- without people telling me I'm wrong, and investing myself in a con man who values channel hits over integrity.

    That said: I will continue to leave it open that maybe it will eventually come out that Scott was under some kind of NDA that stopped him from explaining a truth that actually had ONE BIT OF PROOF behind it.

    Til then?

    I'll defend Scott's MOTU contributions as passionately as ever... but primarily because of what this thread's main subject is examining, I will never disparage those questioning Scott's honesty toward the consumer public on major issues.

    I consider "distributing facts on brand ownership" a relatively cut & dry major issue with (again, relatively) no nuance whatsoever... "Stinkor arms" or "Hoverboard stickers", not so much because there's all different variables that go into toy production and the debate on those issues can go any number of avenues.

    That said: For Scott, who has brought so much to the MOTU table, I wish peace .... and, similarly, I wish peace for all involved in our toy collecting fandom. But not at the expense of the search for truth.
    I'm with ya, man. I jumped on Classics after it moved to Super 7, but I remember hearing the scathing comments about him. Between seeing him at Power-Con once and watching his videos (as well as his responses), he seems fairly sincere, but with a quirky personality ... not nefarious as he's been made out to be, and I certainly don't see any bashing of Mattel. I suppose, instead of getting worked up about whether he's right or wrong, people can just wait until 2023. ** shrugs **
    "I wouldn't be surprised if this movie has Adam as a skinny nerd from Earth battling another skinny nerd-hacker from Earth that used an alias of Keldor. They then enter Tron-style to a cyber world called Eternia, where they control muscle-bound avatars to battle (called He-Man and Skeletor). And these same avatars come to life and continue to battle in present-day Earth." - VZX

  23. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkor View Post
    I was talking about the thread in general. I shouldn’t have left my comment as a reply to yours and make it seem like it was directed to you personally. My mistake. I apologize.
    Aw, no worries! No apology necessary. I just wanted to make clear I wasn’t trying to make a personal attack and piling on.

  24. #349
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUC138 View Post
    Either way... I always felt Mattel treated MOTU brand way lesser than what it should have been. I mean, look, all these years, you made character cars & vehicles from so many different properties in Hot Wheels. And yet, you only started making your own property (MOTU) vehicles (3 as of now) since 2019 !

    Not So Cool Mattel !!

    Mattel is the battleground on which the "45 Year Barbie/Hot Wheels War" has been being waged. MOTU/POP has always been a temporary flanking battalion, mere cannon fodder to tide the public over while the Big Two regrouped.

    The woman that more or less killed the brand and drove Taylor, Cleveland and Sweet out of the company was Jill Barad. After she left, it has been a revolving door of people with little or no perception of the property. MOTU is in a renaissance now because someone noticed how much licensing money it was bringing in and said "hmm, maybe we should, like, I dunno... make toys or something." MOTU is back because we bought the Super7, Mondo, and Funko merch and sent enough of a royalty stream Mattel's way that eventually they noticed.

    But make no mistake, once this pig has bled out, Mattel's going to renew focus on more important things, like that Magic 8-Ball movie.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  25. #350
    Motuc Blister Eater OnlyOneSkeletor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    MOTU is back because we bought the Super7, Mondo, and Funko merch and sent enough of a royalty stream Mattel's way that eventually they noticed.

    But make no mistake, once this pig has bled out, Mattel's going to renew focus on more important things, like that Magic 8-Ball movie.
    Leaving the door wide open for any other manufacturer, hopefully ...
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