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Thread: THE JOKER film origin story...with Scorsese producing?! Are you kidding?!!!

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motogp_fanatic View Post
    Seriously release that... Darkseid is supposedly there for crying out loud.

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    And black suit Superman as well as a much more fleshed out role for cyborg , from what I've heard . Plus it would validate the knightmare sequences from Batman v Superman . I'm sure we'll see it at some point

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by davelove81 View Post
    All of my friends are clamoring about the movie and I am over here like 'meh.' It could be amazing though. Who knows. I will watch it when it comes on streaming.
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  3. #103
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    So this is inspired by Alan Moore's The Killing Joke?
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  4. #104
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I think it’ll borrow some elements, but it’s not TKJ alone. There’s definitely a lot of new stuff here. I’ve read that longtime Batfans may take umbrage at some changes to the mythology, but what else is new?
    Last edited by Uki; August 31, 2019 at 10:05pm.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    I think it’ll borrow some elements, but it’s not TKJ alone. There’s definitely a lot of new stuff here. I’ve read that longtime Batfans may take umbrage at some changes to the mythology, but what else is new?
    This honestly ISN'T the Joker i'm hoping it's an Elseworld's version...
    Last edited by Uki; August 31, 2019 at 10:04pm.

  6. #106
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Well, anything other than the comic version kinda would be, so....
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  7. #107
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    I saw the latest trailer and IMHO, the movie looks like it will be amazing. Definitely different from the typical comic book movie, which to me would be refreshing.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    Well, anything other than the comic version kinda would be, so....
    True but usually you only get ONE chance to make a movie based on a character so iconic as Joker so if it's not good we probably won't get another one....

    Why are people obsessed with "real" world versions of made up fictional characters? instead of the comic version?

    Because without the comic you have NO character......

  9. #109
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Obviously.

    Vote with your dollars, as I always say.
    Last edited by Uki; September 1, 2019 at 11:48pm.
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  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    True but usually you only get ONE chance to make a movie based on a character so iconic as Joker so if it's not good we probably won't get another one....

    Why are people obsessed with "real" world versions of made up fictional characters? instead of the comic version?

    Because without the comic you have NO character......
    What makes Jack's joker different than Heath's Joker? and how do you feel about the Joker in Killing Joke?
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  11. #111
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    True but usually you only get ONE chance to make a movie based on a character so iconic as Joker so if it's not good we probably won't get another one....

    Why are people obsessed with "real" world versions of made up fictional characters? instead of the comic version?

    Because without the comic you have NO character......
    But let's be honest, comics are and have been dying. Without the MCU the comic world would be really struggling. And there are a TON of things in the comics that no one would ever want to see on the big screen.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  12. #112
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    But let's be honest, comics are and have been dying. Without the MCU the comic world would be really struggling. And there are a TON of things in the comics that no one would ever want to see on the big screen.
    Beg to differ they are ALOT of characters that could be done that people would want to see...Who would have thought a talking Tree & Raccoon would be so popular (Even Howard The Duck) so never say never...

  13. #113
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Beg to differ they are ALOT of characters that could be done that people would want to see...Who would have thought a talking Tree & Raccoon would be so popular (Even Howard The Duck) so never say never...
    I'm not talking characters as much as awful story lines. There have a been a lot of real stinkers and things people would rather forget and that's with top name characters like Spidey, Hulk, and other popular characters.

    I'd argue that for many people the MCU versions of characters are overall better than the comic versions. I don't think there's a person that's in the know that doesn't realize "Tony Stark" IS RDJ in the comics now.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  14. #114
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I'm not talking characters as much as awful story lines. There have a been a lot of real stinkers and things people would rather forget and that's with top name characters like Spidey, Hulk, and other popular characters.

    I'd argue that for many people the MCU versions of characters are overall better than the comic versions. I don't think there's a person that's in the know that doesn't realize "Tony Stark" IS RDJ in the comics now.
    This isn't the REAL Joker it has to be Elseworld's version....Joker to me (And many others) will always be the guy who was dumped into chemicals and it changed him physically and mentally...This doesn't do it...sorry...

    Hell even Jared Leto had the bleached skin and at least looked and acted the part modernized....

    This looks like a guy in clown makeup...That's not Joker no matter how it's spun...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I'd argue that for many people the MCU versions of characters are overall better than the comic versions. I don't think there's a person that's in the know that doesn't realize "Tony Stark" IS RDJ in the comics now.
    Which is one of the reasons I'm so vocal about stuff I don't like. The movies have a way of bleeding over into ALLLLL interpretations and suddenly that's the ONLY version we get. If something sucks I want the people in charge to realize that not everyone LIKES the shiny new interpretation.

  16. #116
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    This isn't the REAL Joker it has to be Elseworld's version....Joker to me (And many others) will always be the guy who was dumped into chemicals and it changed him physically and mentally...This doesn't do it...sorry...

    Hell even Jared Leto had the bleached skin and at least looked and acted the part modernized....

    This looks like a guy in clown makeup...That's not Joker no matter how it's spun...
    It's the real joker for 2019, just like Jack Nicholsons joker and cesar romeos joker are so completely different but equally as valid to their eras. This is just a less comic booky, more " real world" take. It might be amazing, it might be awful but batman and the joker have already been portrayed in so many different ways over the decades, why is this take in particular such a problem?

  17. #117
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    This isn't the REAL Joker it has to be Elseworld's version....Joker to me (And many others) will always be the guy who was dumped into chemicals and it changed him physically and mentally...This doesn't do it...sorry...

    Hell even Jared Leto had the bleached skin and at least looked and acted the part modernized....

    This looks like a guy in clown makeup...That's not Joker no matter how it's spun...
    Well in real life no one gets dropped into a vat of chemicals and comes out a super villain. Vats of chemicals are extremely dangerous and would most likely be fatal. That only works in comic books.

    And without really giving it a name, this isn't meant to be any particular Joker. It's a new modernized and somewhat serious take on the character that is supposed to take place in reality rather than a comic book world.


    Look at it like this: a long time ago people idolized cowboys and gun fighters as "heroes". Then a movie like Unforgiven comes along and and shows us a different, less romanticized version of these types of characters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Which is one of the reasons I'm so vocal about stuff I don't like. The movies have a way of bleeding over into ALLLLL interpretations and suddenly that's the ONLY version we get. If something sucks I want the people in charge to realize that not everyone LIKES the shiny new interpretation.

    And of course not everyone will like it. But if the majority of your income is coming from the movies while the comics struggle to sell, the movies will always be more influential.

    I hate to say it guys but your voice doesn't really matter to the people making the material. Your dollars do.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  18. #118
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Well in real life no one gets dropped into a vat of chemicals and comes out a super villain. Vats of chemicals are extremely dangerous and would most likely be fatal. That only works in comic books.

    And without really giving it a name, this isn't meant to be any particular Joker. It's a new modernized and somewhat serious take on the character that is supposed to take place in reality rather than a comic book world.


    Look at it like this: a long time ago people idolized cowboys and gun fighters as "heroes". Then a movie like Unforgiven comes along and and shows us a different, less romanticized version of these types of characters.

    - - - Updated - - -




    And of course not everyone will like it. But if the majority of your income is coming from the movies while the comics struggle to sell, the movies will always be more influential.

    I hate to say it guys but your voice doesn't really matter to the people making the material. Your dollars do.
    Right it's NOT supposed to be REAL get it? It IS a comic book MOVIE not a "reality" movie....most people want to see the right version and then they are some that like it because that's the only version they are getting so they LOVE it (Case in Point Venom.....)

    And to me that doesn't make sense to CHANGE something that has been established for YEARS and people know that character for the look and the way they act etc.Oh but we will change it so suit the NON fans JUST because the comic books are not selling that well anymore... OK that makes sense....

    So when one day let's say Spider-Man movies are better than the comics then he should be changed to an alien with 3 heads and have NOTHING to do with being Spider-Man no powers,costume etc. JUST because a SMALL minority like it that way it should be changed....

    See this is the problem today people want to make things like THEY want and they could care less about anything that gave that character merit etc. and could care less about HISTORY because to them that's irrelevant...Huh? So your logic is to CHANGE something just to appease movie goers? No...

    That makes a whole lot of sense.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by davelove81 View Post
    It's the real joker for 2019, just like Jack Nicholsons joker and cesar romeos joker are so completely different but equally as valid to their eras. This is just a less comic booky, more " real world" take. It might be amazing, it might be awful but batman and the joker have already been portrayed in so many different ways over the decades, why is this take in particular such a problem?
    Sorry it's not....Why do people have to keep putting these characters in the "Real World" they don't exist in the real world so why put them there?

    Darth Vader isn't real and I don't see anyone trying to "Spin It" and make him "Real" as well....

    Oh wait I just set someone up to do it....

  19. #119
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    I really don't understand where your coming from megalodon mate , but it's not up to me to change your mind .there's room for all different interpretations , What works for gaurdians of the Galaxy doesn't work for Batman or the joker that's all , to me at least . Drink the Kool aid mate , it's tasty and delicious

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  20. #120
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Right it's NOT supposed to be REAL get it? It IS a comic book MOVIE not a "reality" movie....most people want to see the right version and then they are some that like it because that's the only version they are getting so they LOVE it (Case in Point Venom.....)

    And to me that doesn't make sense to CHANGE something that has been established for YEARS and people know that character for the look and the way they act etc.Oh but we will change it so suit the NON fans JUST because the comic books are not selling that well anymore... OK that makes sense....

    So when one day let's say Spider-Man movies are better than the comics then he should be changed to an alien with 3 heads and have NOTHING to do with being Spider-Man no powers,costume etc. JUST because a SMALL minority like it that way it should be changed....

    See this is the problem today people want to make things like THEY want and they could care less about anything that gave that character merit etc. and could care less about HISTORY because to them that's irrelevant...Huh? So your logic is to CHANGE something just to appease movie goers? No...

    That makes a whole lot of sense.....
    Who has said it's a comic book movie?

    I talked about the movies because the movies are making a LOT of money. So calling them "a small minority" is silly. And change can be good. Look at ANY comic. Tell me that the characters today are the same as when they first appeared

    It was the comics that had Spidey turning into an 6 armed man-spider. You think people in the MCU want to try and sell that on the big screen? How about the Joker killing thousands of people....and then being put into the same insane asylum he keeps escaping from. A lot of comic stuff has to stay in the comics because it's ridiculous and wouldn't appeal to the masses.


    Do they care about the characters history? No. I agree with you on that. It's about money. So if they thought a Joker movie about a guy falling into a vat of chemicals would sell, that's what they would have made.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  21. #121
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    What about Batman 1989? it has Joker's origin in it or Alan Moore's Killing Joke?

    And do you think Marvel succeeds where DC fails on film?
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Who has said it's a comic book movie?

    I talked about the movies because the movies are making a LOT of money. So calling them "a small minority" is silly. And change can be good. Look at ANY comic. Tell me that the characters today are the same as when they first appeared

    It was the comics that had Spidey turning into an 6 armed man-spider. You think people in the MCU want to try and sell that on the big screen? How about the Joker killing thousands of people....and then being put into the same insane asylum he keeps escaping from. A lot of comic stuff has to stay in the comics because it's ridiculous and wouldn't appeal to the masses.


    Do they care about the characters history? No. I agree with you on that. It's about money. So if they thought a Joker movie about a guy falling into a vat of chemicals would sell, that's what they would have made.
    It's seems like we are arguing the same point (kinda) I know movies of comics and or books etc. have to be simplified for the masses but ALL I am saying is that when you get ONE chance to do a solo movie of a popular character you want it to stay close to who he is a respect the source material when studious start making sub par versions of these characters and people accept them then it will not matter...

    And I could care LESS about reality in my fiction.... Don't we have enough "reality" in our world as it is? TV Shows,Social Media The Kardashians....

    I want an escape and enjoyment in what I watch/read I don't want it *******ized just to fit someone's agenda....

    Watch when the new He-Man movie comes out someone will change something and screw that up too...

  23. #123
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    It's seems like we are arguing the same point (kinda) I know movies of comics and or books etc. have to be simplified for the masses but ALL I am saying is that when you get ONE chance to do a solo movie of a popular character you want it to stay close to who he is a respect the source material when studious start making sub par versions of these characters and people accept them then it will not matter...

    And I could care LESS about reality in my fiction.... Don't we have enough "reality" in our world as it is? TV Shows,Social Media The Kardashians....

    I want an escape and enjoyment in what I watch/read I don't want it *******ized just to fit someone's agenda....

    Watch when the new He-Man movie comes out someone will change something and screw that up too...
    What do you think of comic book films that are based on graphic novels that were grounded in reality like History of Violence, Road to Perdition and Oldboy 2003?
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  24. #124
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    It's seems like we are arguing the same point (kinda) I know movies of comics and or books etc. have to be simplified for the masses but ALL I am saying is that when you get ONE chance to do a solo movie of a popular character you want it to stay close to who he is a respect the source material when studious start making sub par versions of these characters and people accept them then it will not matter...

    And I could care LESS about reality in my fiction.... Don't we have enough "reality" in our world as it is? TV Shows,Social Media The Kardashians....

    I want an escape and enjoyment in what I watch/read I don't want it *******ized just to fit someone's agenda....

    Watch when the new He-Man movie comes out someone will change something and screw that up too...
    I think the biggest difference in our opinions on this is how well a true comic version Joker movie would do on the big screen. I know hardcore fans would love it, but overall audiences? I don't think it would do much better than a Suicide Squad. I could easily be wrong but it's hard for me to imagine what the plot of a true origin story would be that could be taken seriously.


    My opinion is that people that know the comics already enjoy the characters, right? So maybe a more artsy movie that's more reality based catches the attention of more non-fans? That, to me, helps grow the franchise and popularity of the character.


    Oh and as far as a He-man movie...I'm fully prepared that I'm not going to like it. I'm not going to let myself get my hopes up because I feel sure it won't be what I want it to be.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I think the biggest difference in our opinions on this is how well a true comic version Joker movie would do on the big screen. I know hardcore fans would love it, but overall audiences? I don't think it would do much better than a Suicide Squad. I could easily be wrong but it's hard for me to imagine what the plot of a true origin story would be that could be taken seriously.


    My opinion is that people that know the comics already enjoy the characters, right? So maybe a more artsy movie that's more reality based catches the attention of more non-fans? That, to me, helps grow the franchise and popularity of the character.


    Oh and as far as a He-man movie...I'm fully prepared that I'm not going to like it. I'm not going to let myself get my hopes up because I feel sure it won't be what I want it to be.
    See, to me that doesn't grow the franchise... it dilutes it.

    Green Lantern is a shining example of that. Hal Jordan WAS the Green Lantern for 40 years. Guy and John were back up characters that were only around to further push Hal's character. I.E. even when he gave up the ring to John... the books spent just as much time on how tough it was for Hal to see someone else be the hero while he was just a civilian. He gave up the ring... but never gave up the book.

    Then came Kyle and the fanbase was violently split... Then John got the spot in the JL cartoon... and now you have people who only know John as Green Lantern for a 3 year cartoon 20 years ago... Nowdays the fan base is so drastically scattered around that ALL their books do terrible because there isn't enough of a fan base to support the SIX Earth based Green Lanterns.

    Same thing happened with MOTU. We always had the Filmation fans and the pre-filmation fans... but honeslty the pre-filmation fans were used to getting passed over when Filmation became THE DRIVING PUSH for MOTU. Then 200x came about and the 'era wars' that showed up when Classics launched were VICIOUS. Because no one group was a defining majority and no matter what was done a Huge chunk were disappointed and upset. That isn't 'growing' the brand... it's fracturing it.

    These comic characters have a legitimate and loyal fan base. They have decades worth of material to work with proven success. There are people who have been pushing, hoping and clamoring for a movie for years. The rest of the world doesn't care. They'll see anything if it's marketed right. What we want to see is these characters we already know on a live action screen bigger than life. Not 'some other interpretation that has no connection whatsoever to what we love except in name only...'

    For example I would LOVE to Steel or Catwoman get a solo movie... and having seen what the studio put out.... I would STILL love to see a Steel or Catwoman Solo movie. Those were NOT the characters we were fans of. They were NOT legitimate 'interpretaitons.' They didn't grow the brand.

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