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Thread: Is Collector's Choice done?

  1. #376
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    From all I have read I honestly think the Stout figures and Snake Mountain will be the end of MOTU Classics.
    I believe Super 7 will only continue making other figures like Conan and Toxie and possibly Thundercats on the MOTUC buck body.
    The legal rights for the upcoming movie seem to have messed things up along with the rumours of Mattel's financial situation.

  2. #377
    Heroic Warrior Gryf's Avatar
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    Hope that is not the case...

  3. #378
    Heroic Warrior PwrdOff's Avatar
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    Ditching Classics for Origins would really be a massive downgrade as far as I’m concerned. The figures are just flat out worse, likely will cost just as much, and will never achieve the same kind of scope or variety as Classics did. I get the impulse to want to leave the decade old line behind and start fresh, but the idea should be to do it better than what came before.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Ditching Classics for Origins would really be a massive downgrade as far as I’m concerned. The figures are just flat out worse, likely will cost just as much, and will never achieve the same kind of scope or variety as Classics did. I get the impulse to want to leave the decade old line behind and start fresh, but the idea should be to do it better than what came before.
    What?!

    You think Origins will cost $50 a figure?

    We're looking at a $20 or under line.

  5. #380
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    What?!

    You think Origins will cost $50 a figure?

    We're looking at a $20 or under line.
    and just what retail store does mattel think will carry these?

    Childworld is long gone, KB Toy and Hobby Gone, Toys R Us Gone, K-Mart Gone. Walmart will give it a small space maybe two pegs

    Target won't give it much space either. Mattel is fooling themselves if they think this will do well at retail.
    Collectors Choice most Wanted Characacters:

    Hunga The Harpy, Sagitar, General Tateran, Kothos, 200x Sorceress, Crimson Countess, Inspector Darkney.


    Club Grayskull Filmation most Wanted Characacters:

    Melaktha, Leech, Filmation Horde Trooper, Yukkers, Multibot, Ram-Man, Whiplash, Webstor, Blue Faker ( From JE The Return Of Faker)

  6. #381
    Heroic Warrior PwrdOff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    What?!You think Origins will cost $50 a figure?We're looking at a $20 or under line.
    Classics figures only cost $50 because the demand on the secondary market is still strong. The problem is this can’t be fixed by just making more because MOTU is a niche brand and while a relatively small number of collectors are willing to pay lots for these figures, most don’t care about them at all and wouldn’t buy them at any price. Origins will inevitably run into the same problems, how many kids these days will care about reproductions of action figures from 1982? Hell, how many dads of action figure aged kids are even old enough to remember vintage MOTU? Maybe the movie will bring new attention to the franchise but I’m doubtful, MOTU is just 80s to its core in a way that has proven difficult to update. The culture is just different now, I don’t think you can make it appeal to modern audiences without completely changing what it is, like with the Netflix She-Ra reboot.
    Last edited by PwrdOff; June 23, 2019 at 12:32am.

  7. #382
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    True the 80s are gone they could bring back He-Man and Thundercats etc to retail and they would be nothing but peg warmers. Mattel will find this out here shortly. Plus Season 3 of the new She-Ra cartoon coming and no retail?? Mattel sure knows how to make money 😂

    - - - Updated - - -

    Classics used to be 20 or 25 a figure same with Club Grayskull. But Mattel fumbled the ball and never recovered thankfully Super7 stepped up and helped us out. I will gladly continue to pay 35 a figure from Super7 or 50 from BBTS.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Classics figures only cost $50 because the demand on the secondary market is still strong. The problem is this can’t be fixed by just making more because MOTU is a niche brand and while a relatively small number of collectors are willing to pay lots for these figures, most don’t care about them at all and wouldn’t buy them at any price. Origins will inevitably run into the same problems, how many kids these days will care about reproductions of action figures from 1982? Hell, how many dads of action figure aged kids are even old enough to remember vintage MOTU? Maybe the movie will bring new attention to the franchise but I’m doubtful, MOTU is just 80s to its core in a way that has proven difficult to update. The culture is just different now, I don’t think you can make it appeal to modern audiences without completely changing what it is, like with the Netflix She-Ra reboot.
    While I think a surprise Netflix series that is essentially a more retro 200x is viable and an app game could influence things, personally, I think just being freaking insane/bizarre barbarian figures would have some clout. They will sell because they’re weird and jarring with odd proportions and weird characters like Trapjaw, Buzzoff, and Mekanek.

    They’ll sell because they aren’t boring. Which most toys have become.

    And Classics itself dialed down the weird. Dial it up. Get Tom Scioli doing card illustrations. Make it a toyline staring into the abyss of insanity and it will sell or at least make a splash on its way to the bottom of the lake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by quick16tt View Post
    True the 80s are gone they could bring back He-Man and Thundercats etc to retail and they would be nothing but peg warmers. Mattel will find this out here shortly. Plus Season 3 of the new She-Ra cartoon coming and no retail?? Mattel sure knows how to make money 😂

    - - - Updated - - -

    Classics used to be 20 or 25 a figure same with Club Grayskull. But Mattel fumbled the ball and never recovered thankfully Super7 stepped up and helped us out. I will gladly continue to pay 35 a figure from Super7 or 50 from BBTS.
    It’s more like $50 with shipping.

    I don’t feel the connection or gratitude a lot of folks feel towards Super 7. They seem like cool dudes who I’d love to geek out with. I’m impressed by what they did with the level of resources I think they had.

    At the same time, I don’t see that keeping a zombie line going did the brand huge favors, aside from giving Mattel proof of concept. I don’t think going away for a few years would be bad. I doubt most casual fans knew MOTUC existed after the first few offerings beyond the vs. DC two packs and rare presence at an odd GameStop even before S7.

    I don’t see us at the end of the brand so much as it feels like it’s been hoarded in a closet for ten or even fifteen years. And maybe it’s ready to see daylight again and reach out to people who barely knew MOTUC existed and their kids. And maybe MOTU can be weird again. The weird is what I see hooking the kids. Some of them may come by way of things like Rick and Morty.

    But I think things like Fortnite and Overwatch have paved the way for weird, free association genre bending and weird puns in an action franchise. The kids may not recognize He-Man but they’ve been eating up MOTU’s heirs and distant cousins since they watched their parents playing World of Warcraft. And they’re So genre savvy it’s absurd. I was SHOCKED to find ALF has a semi-ironic under 30 following online.

  9. #384
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    Since super7 got an agreement with William Stout, maybe we can still have some movie figures.
    That could be a good wait til the end and the movie and movie figures promotion is over

  10. #385
    Heroic Warrior PwrdOff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    While I think a surprise Netflix series that is essentially a more retro 200x is viable and an app game could influence things, personally, I think just being freaking insane/bizarre barbarian figures would have some clout. They will sell because they’re weird and jarring with odd proportions and weird characters like Trapjaw, Buzzoff, and Mekanek.They’ll sell because they aren’t boring. Which most toys have become.And Classics itself dialed down the weird. Dial it up. Get Tom Scioli doing card illustrations. Make it a toyline staring into the abyss of insanity and it will sell or at least make a splash on its way to the bottom of the lake.
    Yeah but how exactly is Origins an improvement on that front? They are just slightly modified versions of figures that came out 37 years ago, that most of the people who have any interest in the brand probably already own. And yeah MOTU is weird, but it always took itself somewhat seriously and arrived at its oddities by experimenting to see what kids might actually appreciate. It’s not really similar to a lot of those early 90s toylines that we’re just weird for the sake of being weird or some kind of self parody.

  11. #386
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjw41 View Post
    and just what retail store does mattel think will carry these?

    Childworld is long gone, KB Toy and Hobby Gone, Toys R Us Gone, K-Mart Gone. Walmart will give it a small space maybe two pegs

    Target won't give it much space either. Mattel is fooling themselves if they think this will do well at retail.
    Most stores don't even carry their DC toys.

  12. #387
    Heroic Warrior AntiEternia He-Man's Avatar
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    I wouldn’t presume to know more about what stores will carry their product than Mattel knows.

    Toys R Us is relaunching later this year though. A few locations and the website will be back.

    Other than that you’ve got Walmart, GameStop and Target as the only places I can think of that would be obvious outlets for them to try and deal with.

  13. #388
    Heroic slave of time man-at-work's Avatar
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    CC probably is done, at least for the next 2 years, so I've started to hunt some old figures I wanted but was not able to buy them when they were issued. I have already got Oo-larr, Red Beast Man (only Beast Man I have), Man-E-Faces and Plasmar. Looking to get Battleground Evil-Lyn (I don't like yellow-skin version, so this would be my only Evil-Lyn) and Mekaneck (Trap Jaw is totally out of budget). That's my mitigation plan, together with Power-Con exclusives this year, to compensate for lack of new product offerings. The William Stout collection is not my thing, since I rarely collect variants of characters I already got, though they look great (detailed sculpting).
    Wish list of MOTUC figures: Sagitar, Red Beast, Red Shadow, Red Knight, Hans Hammerholder, Ra-Jar

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Yeah but how exactly is Origins an improvement on that front? They are just slightly modified versions of figures that came out 37 years ago, that most of the people who have any interest in the brand probably already own. And yeah MOTU is weird, but it always took itself somewhat seriously and arrived at its oddities by experimenting to see what kids might actually appreciate. It’s not really similar to a lot of those early 90s toylines that we’re just weird for the sake of being weird or some kind of self parody.
    The unrealistic proportions are an improvement.

    It looks considerably more freakish, which stands out.

    We haven’t gotten into the line proper but I’m guessing a return to 5.5 means a return to play features.

    Hundreds of figures deep into MOTUC, bigger than Vintage, and no Stilt Stalker, no Jetsled, no Battlehawk. Most of the transformations accomplished with parts swaps. Playsets that prioritize cosmetic value over action features. A modern retail Grayskull would probably be half hardboard but it would have a springloaded trapdoor and sell for under $150.

    I feel like “It doesn’t appeal to kids” is a self-fulfilling prophecy when you adopt a “spare no expense”, “cut all the goofy gimmicks” approach to toys.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Mattel isn’t borrowing from its DC playbook (and Hasbro’s TF and Marvel playbook) to develop two lines.

    One as Origins, a semi-collector play value rich line and a cheap-o line at the same scale that’s all rocket launchers and nets and back levers like Knight Missions Batman and the discount (and better selling) Justice League movie basic figures.

    And then you can do big runs of vehicles like the Knight Missions Batmobile or Justice League Batcave aimed at either line since they share a scale.

  15. #390
    Heroic Warrior CanadaClassics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphonse View Post
    Since super7 got an agreement with William Stout, maybe we can still have some movie figures.
    That could be a good wait til the end and the movie and movie figures promotion is over
    Super 7 won't do that reports were that movie line did sell but not well. They made the figures that everyone will buy...Gold Skeletor and He Man...

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaClassics View Post
    Super 7 won't do that reports were that movie line did sell but not well. They made the figures that everyone will buy...Gold Skeletor and He Man...
    Maybe they could do vintage releases of Stout designs?

  17. #392
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiEternia He-Man View Post
    I wouldn’t presume to know more about what stores will carry their product than Mattel knows.

    Toys R Us is relaunching later this year though. A few locations and the website will be back.

    Other than that you’ve got Walmart, GameStop and Target as the only places I can think of that would be obvious outlets for them to try and deal with.
    Add Hot Topic and FYE to the list, as well as Meijers.

    I don't see why a retail MOTU line can't exist at retail... I think it would be very welcome, along with a new She-Ra line based on the Netlix show...
    We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!

    **Staunch FILMation lover!!! **** Uber NEW ADVENTURES Fan!!!**
    It's TIME to finish the New Adventures figure lineup !!!

  18. #393
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaClassics View Post
    Super 7 won't do that reports were that movie line did sell but not well. They made the figures that everyone will buy...Gold Skeletor and He Man...
    What Reports? I don't recall ever seeing anything posted on the sales of The William Stout Collection And I haven't seen anything posted where Brian said it didn't sell well. Where are you getting your information?
    Collectors Choice most Wanted Characacters:

    Hunga The Harpy, Sagitar, General Tateran, Kothos, 200x Sorceress, Crimson Countess, Inspector Darkney.


    Club Grayskull Filmation most Wanted Characacters:

    Melaktha, Leech, Filmation Horde Trooper, Yukkers, Multibot, Ram-Man, Whiplash, Webstor, Blue Faker ( From JE The Return Of Faker)

  19. #394
    Heroic Warrior PwrdOff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    The unrealistic proportions are an improvement.It looks considerably more freakish, which stands out.We haven’t gotten into the line proper but I’m guessing a return to 5.5 means a return to play features.Hundreds of figures deep into MOTUC, bigger than Vintage, and no Stilt Stalker, no Jetsled, no Battlehawk. Most of the transformations accomplished with parts swaps. Playsets that prioritize cosmetic value over action features. A modern retail Grayskull would probably be half hardboard but it would have a springloaded trapdoor and sell for under $150.I feel like “It doesn’t appeal to kids” is a self-fulfilling prophecy when you adopt a “spare no expense”, “cut all the goofy gimmicks” approach to toys.I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Mattel isn’t borrowing from its DC playbook (and Hasbro’s TF and Marvel playbook) to develop two lines.One as Origins, a semi-collector play value rich line and a cheap-o line at the same scale that’s all rocket launchers and nets and back levers like Knight Missions Batman and the discount (and better selling) Justice League movie basic figures.And then you can do big runs of vehicles like the Knight Missions Batmobile or Justice League Batcave aimed at either line since they share a scale.
    I don't think kids really play with toys like that anymore, they're mostly glued to phone and tablet games pretty early on. I suppose the younger ones can have fun with Playskool or Imaginext type toys, but I think of that 7-12 year old demographic that most action figures used to be aimed at, I think you'd really have a hard time prying them away from their video games and convincing them that some Stilt Stalkers and a cardboard castle are enough to hold their attention for an afternoon.The fact of the matter is that action figures are by and large made for adult collectors these days. Most kids who still collect and play with them probably do so because their parents enjoy the hobby and share it with them. And even if there was demand for cheap toys, it's not so easy to make them anymore because labor in many third world countries is much more expensive now, because people over there are sick of slaving away all day just so our kids can have toys to play with, and they want to paid enough to be able to buy toys for THEIR kids to play with. The world has changed so much since the Reagan era, going back to that model just won't work now.

  20. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    I don't think kids really play with toys like that anymore, they're mostly glued to phone and tablet games pretty early on. I suppose the younger ones can have fun with Playskool or Imaginext type toys, but I think of that 7-12 year old demographic that most action figures used to be aimed at, I think you'd really have a hard time prying them away from their video games and convincing them that some Stilt Stalkers and a cardboard castle are enough to hold their attention for an afternoon.The fact of the matter is that action figures are by and large made for adult collectors these days. Most kids who still collect and play with them probably do so because their parents enjoy the hobby and share it with them. And even if there was demand for cheap toys, it's not so easy to make them anymore because labor in many third world countries is much more expensive now, because people over there are sick of slaving away all day just so our kids can have toys to play with, and they want to paid enough to be able to buy toys for THEIR kids to play with. The world has changed so much since the Reagan era, going back to that model just won't work now.

    So. There’s a lot of things here:
    1) kids tend to buy what they see on TV lately. I still see a lot of power ranger toys and star war toys on the shelves. I have to assume collectors are not buying all that stuff up.
    2) I do see a huge downfall in toys like He-Man since we were younger. He-Man was a line. The figures were all the same size and there were hundreds of them to have as part of ur collection as a kid. Go try that with Batman toys today! Every Batman figure is a different size. He has a few super hero friends and almost no bad guys to fight against. Someone needs to explain to me how Toy companies are still in business with the lack of thinking they are putting into these products.

    3) when I pull out the 1980s He-Man toy lien. EVERY SINGLE KID in our circle comes over to play with them. Including the 8 year old girls down the street. They particularly like She-are & Teela. The kids so me questions about all the names of the characters and want to know the story behind them. So needless to say I have shown A lot of people the he-man & she-ra series.

    I think you are right that some kids are so knee deep in their tablets that it’s not for them. But the 3-7 range I think is still out there for a lot of kids. Especially the ones that have parents like me who limit their IPad play.

    I personally: played He-Man toys up until only about 5 myself. Then I switched to TMNT until about 8.

    Finally: ALL KIDS R OBSESSED W/ Legos. So the mega construction toy line is just what kids r looking for right now. And even thou no he man show. There is no kid that wouldn’t want that castle grayskull

  21. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    I don't think kids really play with toys like that anymore, they're mostly glued to phone and tablet games pretty early on. I suppose the younger ones can have fun with Playskool or Imaginext type toys, but I think of that 7-12 year old demographic that most action figures used to be aimed at, I think you'd really have a hard time prying them away from their video games and convincing them that some Stilt Stalkers and a cardboard castle are enough to hold their attention for an afternoon.The fact of the matter is that action figures are by and large made for adult collectors these days. Most kids who still collect and play with them probably do so because their parents enjoy the hobby and share it with them. And even if there was demand for cheap toys, it's not so easy to make them anymore because labor in many third world countries is much more expensive now, because people over there are sick of slaving away all day just so our kids can have toys to play with, and they want to paid enough to be able to buy toys for THEIR kids to play with. The world has changed so much since the Reagan era, going back to that model just won't work now.
    I don't think MOTU can necessarily be a billion dollar franchise on toys alone like it could for much of the 80s without the movie taking off.

    But if you take Transformers, the "adult collector" line is supposed to be about 40% collected by adults and 60% by kids. Most of the characters have little to no media footprint.

    It's always a bit tricky to compare standard of living between countries. Standards are going up, at least in places with political stability, but you can live like a king on $15k a year in the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, or much of China and not really live all that well on $150k in San Francisco. Things don't cost the same everywhere. You don't need sweatshops for it to be cheaper to produce products in some places because rent and goods cost less in some places. Petroleum is a longterm issue but Walmart throttling profit margins is harder on manufacturers than oil and wage increases put together. Going 5.75" or so in contrast to 6.5" Marvel Legends or 7" MOTUC is a big cost savings.

    In the 80s, the figures were loss leaders for the vehicles which were always fairly hollow until 200x and then MOTUC gave us hefty vehicles.

    Again, you do a cheap, nearly dollar store 5.5" line for breadth like the JL movie basic figures with like 8-10 released per quarter. You do Origins as a companion line with around 4-6 released per quarter and some repacks along the way. You do gimmicky air-powered vehicles that are HOLLOW, have 1-2 light paint deco apps, and can seat both lines, around $25. You make the main creatures a bit more premium, probably around $35. Big hollow slimepit with a springloaded feature at around $55.

    Maybe if you're very enterprising, you design castle Grayskull as a 12 part modular set for $45 a piece (each piece has a gimmick) and built to expand with another 12 pieces for the side and back walls.

    Parts 1-6 make the front and get a 18 month cycle with one part per wave. Then when you do a brand refresh, you add 6 more parts to complete the vintage castle with elevator.

  22. #397
    Heroic Warrior mjw41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    I don't think kids really play with toys like that anymore, they're mostly glued to phone and tablet games pretty early on. I suppose the younger ones can have fun with Playskool or Imaginext type toys, but I think of that 7-12 year old demographic that most action figures used to be aimed at, I think you'd really have a hard time prying them away from their video games and convincing them that some Stilt Stalkers and a cardboard castle are enough to hold their attention for an afternoon.The fact of the matter is that action figures are by and large made for adult collectors these days. Most kids who still collect and play with them probably do so because their parents enjoy the hobby and share it with them. And even if there was demand for cheap toys, it's not so easy to make them anymore because labor in many third world countries is much more expensive now, because people over there are sick of slaving away all day just so our kids can have toys to play with, and they want to paid enough to be able to buy toys for THEIR kids to play with. The world has changed so much since the Reagan era, going back to that model just won't work now.

    I agree. When I was between 7-12 years old all the kid parents had them playing outside. We played with Army Men having wars, we Had the 12 inch G.I joe adventure team, Mego Super heros and bad guys. Then MOTU and Star Wars Entered the scene. Some friends collected all the MOTU figures and Had Castle Grayskull Others just the figures but we played out side with our friends.
    Sadly the kids today rarely play outside or have the imagination we did as 7-12 year old's
    Collectors Choice most Wanted Characacters:

    Hunga The Harpy, Sagitar, General Tateran, Kothos, 200x Sorceress, Crimson Countess, Inspector Darkney.


    Club Grayskull Filmation most Wanted Characacters:

    Melaktha, Leech, Filmation Horde Trooper, Yukkers, Multibot, Ram-Man, Whiplash, Webstor, Blue Faker ( From JE The Return Of Faker)

  23. #398
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    Someone have news about future of Motuc

  24. #399
    Canadian 3-packs hunter bObA_fEtt_Ox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karatzis View Post
    Someone have news about future of Motuc
    There are some but not very good atm...
    Hope that is not the reality though or it it is hope things can change or hope that is just a break for the movie, not a true end
    Last edited by bObA_fEtt_Ox; June 25, 2019 at 04:33am.
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  25. #400
    That PlanetEternia.de guy Sir Reilly's Avatar
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    Unless Mattel forbids so or doesn't have enough molds available anymore, I'm confident to see at least a couple figures done as Power-Con exclusives upcoming years. Only downside in that regard is that those probably have remain as pricey as this year's figures. And it would dampen my excitement if they still have to rely on existing parts and soft goods.
    "Why's Dragstor riding on Night Stalker?" "Cause he can."

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