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Thread: What qualifies as MOTU Classics # 300?

  1. #51
    SAY10 is coming... dedset13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    but MOTUC and HMATMOTU are different lines with different names. Even if you call He-Man and the Masters of the Universe “MOTUC 2.0”, in keeping with the software version numbering metaphor, incrementing your major number usually indicates major structural changes that often break compatibility with earlier major versions, and that holds true here. HMATMOTU figures don’t count in the MOTUC tally any more than Thundercats Classics do.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Timeless One View Post
    If it has "Masters of the Universe Classics" front and center on the packaging, and it was an official release or license of Mattel, then it was/is a MOTUC release in my book. Anything/everything else? Not. Specifically and ardently: absolutely not Club Grayskull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donimo View Post
    Whatever #300 is, Club Grayskull doesn't count towards it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    that logo is just an attempt to retcon the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe figures into Classics. Show me a similar logo on the first 7 figures released by Mattel. If they were meant to be the same line, I'd think the first figures in the line would be branded at least remotely the same way. Since they weren't, I personally wouldn't count them together with the Masters of the Universe Classics, because it's both a different logo AND the main brand logo on the package is still He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by felgekarp View Post
    I would still say you count each individual release rather than figure but not the grayskull stuff, when we get 300 releases in that line we can celebrate that as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by VaultsofGrayskull View Post
    but they're still different! Different boxes, different names, different styles... If they were really meant to have been the same they just would have carried on releasing figures in Classics packaging, not made a big deal of the Filmation look.
    Quote Originally Posted by Streamside View Post
    • The logo wasn’t always there.
    • The CG line was first introduced to us as Classics 2.0, which denotes a departure from Classics 1.0
    • MOTUC kept the previous packaging into collector’s choice, but CG uses new packaging and a new logo.
    • Brandon at Mattel, Eric at the 4H, and Super7 do not dictate how these products are received by collectors.
    • many fans always felt or have accepted that CG is distinct from classics.
    I absolutely agree with all these sentiments.

    MOTUC and HM&TMOTU are clearly two different lines and 100% started as such. For whatever reason (I assume marketing), somewhere along the line Super7 and the powers that be decided to start calling the 2 different lines by their subscription names (Collector's Choice & Club Grayskull) and consider them all MOTUC. Obviously, their say is all that matters and no one is going to change their minds. But I think it's a shame because to me it lessens the integrity of each line's individual awesomeness and I sure won't be celebrating a "300th" MOTUC item that includes releases from what really is a separate line.
    "Oh Lord, Bless this M&M... and the mighty cockroach I slain in battle to get it." - Al Bundy

  2. #52
    Heroic Warrior wayne-klops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I never said anything about opinions and lack of justification. If you're going to paraphrase, Jacob, I humbly request you do it more accurately. Contrary to what some people out there believe (not including you), I really am not here to rain on anyone's parade.


    No one has to change their opinion that CG is not part of Classics, and I feel I made that clear. But CG is officially considered part of Classics and will be considered as part of whatever factor(s) constitutes # 300, in case anyone wants to alter their stance. No one has to, but it's food for thought.
    I really don't get why this is just a hot button issue that gets people so riled up. I have both lines intermixed with each other, which apparently would be blasphemous to some. I don't care whether they're considered the same line or not, but clearly they use similar scales and have intermixed parts, so how could they be two absolutely, no-questions-asked, separate lines that don't co-exist in any way? I am certainly fine including them towards a 300th release.
    CC: 1) Lizorr, 2) Sagitar, 3) King Miro, 4) Hunga, 5) Hoove, 6) Kayo, 7) Artilla, 9) Master Sebrian, 10) MoP Demons, 11) Twiggets, 12) Raj-Jar, 13) Hans Hammerholder, 14) Staghorn, 15) Spinwit, 16) Vizar, 17) Butthead, 18) Nocturna, 19) Melaktha, 20) Vy-Por
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  3. #53
    SAY10 is coming... dedset13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    I have both lines intermixed with each other
    As do I. I have a separate shelf for the variants that can't really be considered different characters, but I have CG Clawful, Dree Elle and Montork mixed in with my MOTUC figures and CG Tung Lasher will join them when he arrives.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    clearly they use similar scales and have intermixed parts, so how could they be two absolutely, no-questions-asked, separate lines that don't co-exist in any way?
    How could they be separate lines? Obviously, there are no "absolutely, no questions-asked" answers when the powers that be can change the intent of each line as they see fit, but they each have different packaging and clearly have two different names. Nobody said they can't co-exist together if they're different lines. I think they look great and fit together, but I still consider them different lines.
    "Oh Lord, Bless this M&M... and the mighty cockroach I slain in battle to get it." - Al Bundy

  4. #54
    Heroic Warrior ToyCulture's Avatar
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    I´d like to see an 8-Back 8 Pack. He-Man, Skeli, Beastie, Merman and all the rest of the gang.

  5. #55
    Professor SkeleTorbeck Streamside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I never said anything about opinions and lack of justification. If you're going to paraphrase, Jacob, I humbly request you do it more accurately. Contrary to what some people out there believe (not including you), I really am not here to rain on anyone's parade.
    Likewise, I'm not trying to misrepresent you: I quoted what you said before I offered my paraphrase so there'd be no confusion. If you didn't mean "stance" and "position" as equivocal with my (and more importantly ash's) use of "opinion," and that "reason to hold" is not meant as another way of saying "justification," then you have my sincere apologies.

    I don't take you to be attempting to rain on anyone's parade, I more take you to be arguing for your own reasons, but I certainly read your words as potentially communicating to folks that their opinions are mostly irrelevant, especially if they understand you to take them as "positions" that, as you said, "there's really no's reason to hold onto ... any more."

    ---

    It doesn't matter to me, ultimately, if someone prints a 300 on a box at some point, or wants to celebrate, by whatever calculation. Since I'm not by any stretch a completist (although I wish I had the money and space to be), and there are plenty of holes in my collection, if the figure in that box is cool, or whatever event or promotion is cool, I'll enjoy it. But I'll still functionally be treating CG and my CC as separate lines.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Streamside; September 5, 2018 at 05:22pm. Reason: Grammar
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  6. #56
    Last Defender of Trolla Wandering Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    I really don't get why this is just a hot button issue that gets people so riled up. I have both lines intermixed with each other, which apparently would be blasphemous to some. I don't care whether they're considered the same line or not, but clearly they use similar scales and have intermixed parts, so how could they be two absolutely, no-questions-asked, separate lines that don't co-exist in any way? I am certainly fine including them towards a 300th release.
    Because, before April, Club Grayskull (nee Classics 2.0) appeared to be a line of variants, sculpted in the Filmation style, of characters that were already safely ensconced within MotUC canon and lore (reflected by the fact that the cardback bios, if any, covered only their tv appearance, and not current established canon). This allowed those to whom the Filmation aesthetic is an anathema, to safely pass them over.

    Beast Man, Chopper (Jitsu), Clawful, Evil-Lyn, Evilseed, Fisto, Grizzlor, He-Man, Hordak, Man-At-Arms, Man-E-Faces, Mantenna, Mer-Man, Prince Adam, She-Ra, Skeletor, Sorceress, Spikor, Teela, Trap Jaw, Tri-Klops and Tung Lashor are all examples of this. But the line took a sudden about-face when Dree Elle and Montork, two characters who had not already appeared in MotUC, made their debut in Club Grayskull instead. Differing packaging put off hardcore MIP MotUC-only collectors, and placed them outside of current canon (though I have faith that something will eventually be done about the latter). Combine this with the seeming creep of pure, unadulterated Filmation aesthetic into MotUC "proper" along with what looks like a soft rebranding of Club Grayskull, and it seems like mass confusion from where I'm standing.

    But I'm pretty sure you knew all this already.

    For what it's worth, my four MotUC Trollans look just fine next to the two new CG arrivals, and I'll be ditching their original stands soon in favor of Obitsus as well. I collect purely for my own amusement, certainly not as any sort of an investment.
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  7. #57
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    I really don't get why this is just a hot button issue that gets people so riled up.
    It's feeling more like we're trapping ourselves in a debate centered around semantics.
    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  8. #58
    Professor SkeleTorbeck Streamside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    It's feeling more like we're trapping ourselves in a debate centered around semantics.
    To be fair, this is a thread for airing one’s opinions on what counts as falling under the word “Classics”! It’s at least partially about definitions and word choices from the get go!

    :Holol:


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    "We must always value life, even the life of one who opposes us." - He-man, The Power of the Evil Horde (Mattel 1985).
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  9. #59
    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streamside View Post
    To be fair, this is a thread for airing one’s opinions on what counts as falling under the word “Classics”! It’s at least partially about definitions and word choices from the get go!

    :Holol:


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    Yeah Val, you asked!!

    Look, I don’t REALLY care. I’m the guy who has called the packaging “literal trash” and said “you can call your toys whatever you want” when people groused over bad bios and name changes. It doesn’t matter at all whether they’re separate lines or not. Likewise, it doesn’t matter what the 300th figure is. I consider the Thundercats and DC figures built on the shared parts as part of the same family... extended family, but family. Maybe we’re already there if you count all the cousins.

    HMATMOTU was sold as a sequel line, though. A sequel is a different thing. It’s “classics 2”, not “classics, too”. Gah, why must I keep needling. It does not change the joy I feel when I enter my He-Man room.

  10. #60
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    So to help right the rails of the train I helped derail (sorry. but it was probably Pixel Dan's fault somehow ),
    if anyone else has feedback on how you define # 300 for Classics, please post away! I'll probably collect from what has been posted here and on social media in 24 hours from this post.
    Thanks!!
    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bObA_fEtt_Ox View Post
    I count each item released, figures or vehicules and of course every variant, but I do not include stands though.
    Ditto. And I would count multi-packs like the Star Sisters as 1 as opposed to 3. Variants and con exclusives deserve their own counts as well. As for tie-in items like the DC 2 packs, I would not count them. It may sound funny but they seem more like stand-alone releases.

  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior Wakko's Avatar
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    I made this point, but no one addressed it: if CG and MOTUC are two different lines, why did some CG figures come with accessories intended for MOTUC figures?
    Check out my on-going project: THE UNOFFICIAL MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE CLASSICS COMPLETE COLLECTION GUIDE
    Featuring photos, bios, accessories, release dates, and trivia for every figure, beast, vehicle and playset released in Masters of the Universe Classics!

  13. #63
    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    I made this point, but no one addressed it: if CG and MOTUC are two different lines, why did some CG figures come with accessories intended for MOTUC figures?
    The two lines have natural crossover appeal and sales gimmicks never hurt nobody.

  14. #64
    Heroic Warrior Wakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    The two lines have natural crossover appeal and sales gimmicks never hurt nobody.
    OR, it's a pretty strong argument that they're part of the same line.
    Check out my on-going project: THE UNOFFICIAL MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE CLASSICS COMPLETE COLLECTION GUIDE
    Featuring photos, bios, accessories, release dates, and trivia for every figure, beast, vehicle and playset released in Masters of the Universe Classics!

  15. #65
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    I've been swayed by Wakko's reasoning.
    Wanted in MOTUC: Masks of Power Demons, Prince Dakon, Princess Rana, Mini-Comics Tri-Klops, Lizorr, Hoove, Vintage Attack Trak.

  16. #66
    Heroic Warrior Greenskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    1....

    This thread started out as a question of "how would you count". In my opinion, that logo is just an attempt to retcon the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe figures into Classics. Show me a similar logo on the first 7 figures released by Mattel. If they were meant to be the same line, I'd think the first figures in the line would be branded at least remotely the same way. Since they weren't, I personally wouldn't count them together with the Masters of the Universe Classics, because it's both a different logo AND the main brand logo on the package is still He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. If some people want to treat them as the same line, good for them.
    I have to agree with Ash. CG was originally intended to be separate. It new packaging and a unique style. I will never consider them part of my Classics line.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamside View Post
    You articulate great reasons why you think otherwise, Val, but if this thread about individual opinions, let’s not tell people that their opinions are unwarranted.

    I can simply offer counterpoints, for the sake of argument, to easily come up with reasons:

    • The logo wasn’t always there.
    • The CG line was first introduced to us as Classics 2.0, which denotes a departure from Classics 1.0
    • MOTUC kept the previous packaging into collector’s choice, but CG uses new packaging and a new logo.
    • Brandon at Mattel, Eric at the 4H, and Super7 do not dictate how these products are received by collectors.
    • many fans always felt or have accepted that CG is distinct from classics.




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    All good points.
    Coming straight out of Preternia, tribal chieftess and the original WARRIOR GODDESS, SHARELLA!!!

    Sharella needs her day in Classics. She is the only remaining vintage POG character that needs a figure.
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  17. #67
    SAY10 is coming... dedset13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    The two lines have natural crossover appeal and sales gimmicks never hurt nobody.
    Yeah, very likely it all comes down to marketing and trying to sell the most figures to the collectors of both lines (or MOTUC line, if you prefer).
    "Oh Lord, Bless this M&M... and the mighty cockroach I slain in battle to get it." - Al Bundy

  18. #68
    Heroic Warrior Greenskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    I made this point, but no one addressed it: if CG and MOTUC are two different lines, why did some CG figures come with accessories intended for MOTUC figures?
    Because not much thought was put into the placement of these items other than fitting them wherever it was cost effective. It is frustrating for those that would like to have those items but don’t wish to collect the CG line.

    - - - Updated - - -

    At the end of the day, putting the 300 stamp on a package will be about as meaningful as putting “The Original” stamp on the packaging or including a real name on the card back. By most, it will be dismissed as quickly as overlooked as Squidish Rex.
    Coming straight out of Preternia, tribal chieftess and the original WARRIOR GODDESS, SHARELLA!!!

    Sharella needs her day in Classics. She is the only remaining vintage POG character that needs a figure.
    Support Sharella for Collectors Choice!

    My top 5 wants for MOTUC: Sharella, Hunga the Harpy, Sagitar, Snake Goddess & Red Beast

  19. #69
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    First all, for those that responded in agreement with me today, thank you. I'm glad that I'm not alone in my sentiment.

    That said, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with having two lines. I don't see why everyone tries to force it all together into one. If people want to collect one, both, or selectively mix and match properties, that's all fine, you "have the power". I don't see people arguing for the DC figures which use MOTUC parts to be included in this count because they are the same size and scale. They are clearly different brands, but they display nicely together on the same shelf. Same with the ThunderCats stuff. If some people are hurt that one line gets a character that the other didn't, it's understandable, but this is a business and it won't ever cater to everyone. There will always be a passionate subset of fans that didn't get the one thing to make their collection complete.

    Semantics has been brought up, and if the question had been "How many 6" scale Masters of the Universe releases?" then I think we'd all have been fine, and maybe the 300th item should be some dual figures like the TRU 2 packs with half and half branding. Short of that, I don't see any point in calling anything the 300th item because semantics breaks down when there are real world items in people's hands. If i handed a MOTUC figure in package and a HATMOTU figure in package to 100 different people on the street at random, I'm guessing >90% of them would ask me if I'm crazy and then tell me these are two different toylines. As it is now, if the current powers that be want to rebrand things they have all the power to do that, but it won't change the minds (and more importantly the collections) of a lot of collectors. So, why aggrevate the fan base? It's already small and fractured, why stoke the division? There won't be some miraculous consensus reached in how to count things, so for some set of collectors, there will always be a disagreement about where 300 falls, so what is really gained by it?

  20. #70
    Heroic Warrior Count Judas's Avatar
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    It’s all true, all of it! For me, this is how I see it as well.

    My opinion on the two lines is this: the Filmation line is a spinoff of the main line and therefore part of it. Whether you collect it or not, it stemmed from Classics, which already had Filmation styled figures made. It’s like someone that collects Marvel Legends and separates the comic iterations with the MCU ones and calling them 2 different lines under the same packaging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakko View Post
    If I may throw my opinion into the ring...

    I've been working on my Unofficial MOTUC Collection Guide. (Shameless plug.) I've been giving each standalone MOTUC release a number, starting with King Grayskull at #001. Each subsequent release was given the next number in order, although there were a few things to note:

    - The original "Spirit of King Grayskull" and "Bronze King Grayskull" were included as part of #001 and not given their own numbers. Chrome She-Ra was not given her own number either.
    - Regular Orko and color-change Orko shared the same number, as did regular He-Ro and SDCC He-Ro.
    - Two packs and multi-packs were only given one number, i.e., Roton and Skelcon both shared a number.
    - I included the Toys R Us MOTUC vs. DC two-packs in the sequence of releases. Each two-pack was given its own number.
    - I included Club Grayskull figures as part of MOTUC, not a separate line.
    - The only items I did not include in the numbering system were the two flight stands and the two wall-mount stands, as they weren't necessarily specific to MOTUC.
    - So each individual figure, 2-pack, 3-pack, vehicle, weapons pack, playset, beast, etc. all got their own number and counted as a single release. Basically, if it was released under the MOTUC banner, whatever came in a single package (box, blister, etc.) counted as a single number.

    So, having said all that, I counted Stridor (the most recent MOTUC release I own) as #236. Chopper, Club Grayskull Spikor, and Dre-Elle/Uncle Montork will be #237-239. The soon-to-ship Club Grayskull figures (Sorceress, etc) and Collector's Choice figures (Karg, etc) will take us up to #247. The newly announced Club Grayskull figures (Fisto, etc) will take us up to #251. So, IMO, we're 49 releases away from MOTUC #300.
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  21. #71
    Hollywood Warrior InspectorZartan's Avatar
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    I haven’t read the whole thread to see what everyone is saying but my first instinct would be only count figures in Classics (not Ultimates, not DC vs MOTU, and not CG).
    TOP WANTS
    TROLLA:DreeElle/Montork/Oracle/Gorpo
    FILMATION:Kittrina/Malektha/Twiggets/RedKnight
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    NA:Nocturna/Sagitar/Kayo/Lizzor/Hoove/Vizar/
    Butthead/Artilla/Spinwit/Staghorn
    JETLAG:Sebrian/Andros/Drissi/Gleep/UR
    MISC:Delora/MOPDemons/LtAndre/EvilRobot/Damon
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    TyrantisaurousRex/Moonbeam/Sundancer

  22. #72
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    What qualifies as MOTU Classics # 300?

    I’d count each individual figure, beast, vehicle, weapons pack... etc. as its own item release as long as they were carded.

    Individual carded figures = one item
    Individual carded figures with multiple head options = one item
    Two packs = two items
    Two packs with multiple heads = two items
    Three packs = three items
    10 pack of NA figures = 10 items
    Heads of Eternia = one item
    Roton and Skelcon = two items
    Weapons pack = one item
    Weapons pack with Kowl pack-in = two items
    Castle Grayskull = one item
    Vykron = one item regardless of how packed
    Bronze King Grayskull = one item
    SDCC King Grayskull = one item
    Captain Glenn/Marlena = one item regardless of how packed
    Color change SDCC Orko with Prince Adam = two items
    Orko with Prince Adam = one item (because pack-in Prince Adam wasn’t any different than the one packed with SDCC Orko)
    I’d also count CG/Filmation/HATMOTU figures.

    I’d also personally count silver She-Ra and Spirit of King Grayskull (the intentionally über rare variants) IF they were carded. If not, then I wouldn’t count them. (Can’t remember)

    My two cents.
    Last edited by yeahthatsme1973; September 6, 2018 at 01:42am.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Judas View Post
    It’s all true, all of it! For me, this is how I see it as well.

    My opinion on the two lines is this: the Filmation line is a spinoff of the main line and therefore part of it. Whether you collect it or not, it stemmed from Classics, which already had Filmation styled figures made. It’s like someone that collects Marvel Legends and separates the comic iterations with the MCU ones and calling them 2 different lines under the same packaging.
    Very good point!
    Wanted in MOTUC: Masks of Power Demons, Prince Dakon, Princess Rana, Mini-Comics Tri-Klops, Lizorr, Hoove, Vintage Attack Trak.

  24. #74
    Hardcore MOTUC Collector KelvAcos's Avatar
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    A figure its a figure whether it was release in a 3 pack or a five pack but Motu Classics and Club Grayskull aren’t the same, vehicles and beasts should be included but not the weapons packs, why? Cause once you open the weapon pack that “one item” will spread in pieces all over your collection, weapons packs are different to me as a lose collector.
    My MOTUC collection here ====> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3mddgXWJ7M

  25. #75
    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    I get the argument for not counting the Club Grayskull figures but for what its worth the official Kenner/Hasbro numbering of Star Wars figures does include the Ewoks and Droids animated series figures which were a totally different style and branding to the movie based Star Wars figures. Personally I'd include the Club Grayskull figures in the numbering.
    I'd count the figures with a vehicle but not the vehicle itself nor accessories/pack-ins/weapons packs etc.
    Multi-packs, if the figures are exactly the same (Horde Troopers, Hover Bots etc) I'd count them as one figure. If they are different (Snake Warriors, Star Sisters) I'd count them as separate figures. The Royal Guards are a bit tricky and I could go either way on them, but as they are packed out with different heads in the packaging I'd be tempted to count them as two figures.

    I'd also maybe ask the 4HM and TG for their opinions and take that into account.
    MOTUC Most Wanted: Kayo, Vizar, Hoove, Lizorr

    UK MOTU Fan Club Members - Add You Member Name to this Thread

    Wanted:
    Trade my Red Stone He-Ro Staff for a Green one

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