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Thread: Where are the toys for this show?

  1. #101
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    I believe what Lokus is saying is that because adults/collectors do not by the majority of toys released, they are not the primary market for toys -- it's kids -- and that's why adults/collectors are not getting many toys targeting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidTDragon View Post
    ......Is this statement supposed to make sense? Because it doesn't.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I believe what Lokus is saying is that because adults/collectors do not by the majority of toys released, they are not the primary market for toys -- it's kids -- and that's why adults/collectors are not getting many toys targeting them.
    What he is saying is that the characters' styles are unappealing so therefore the toys will be unappealing and therefore nobody will buy them. Which is completely untrue because people will buy them.
    Last edited by depp76; January 19, 2019 at 12:34pm.

  3. #103
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    I am saying the cartoon was very bold and risqué . Good for them , GREAT for collectors . BAD for business . HORRID NIGHTMARE for toy investors .

    Not enough people will buy them . 12 dozen adult die hard fans who can afford horrible prices is not worth it . Record breaking sales in Sweden is not enough .
    Pakistan , Iran and Turkey will ban this . How many American parents boycott this too ? Parents get to decide what values they wanna force on their children .
    They are too different shaped and thats expensive to produce . They will be very expensive to sell . Cheap toys are very attractive to parents .

    The Princesses are ugly . The quality hand drawn animation we enjoyed from the 80,s exists only in anime . Flash animation is a horrible curse . While everything has moved foward and improved . Cartoon quality has sadly regressed
    Oh yes and the Princesses are UGLY . They are disproportionate and lacking parts . Evil ugly monsters sell , Mutant ninja turtles sell . Ugly princesses do not sell . Mickey Mouse decides and defines a princess . You cannot fight the MOUSE . All hail the MOUSE .
    Society is obsessed with beauty . This is encoded into our DNA . Its scientifically observed that a baby will keep his attention on an attractive pretty face 2 to 5 minutes longer .

    According to daily beast . 7.3 percent of Americans born between 1980 and 1998 who now identify as LGBT—up from 5.8 percent in 2012. Thats called a minority toy profit forcast .

    Now if the majority of the planet likes to buy Barbie dolls and Disney Princess dolls and 80,s She Ra dolls . Thats not called bigotry , thats called preference.

    WELCOME TO REALITY AND CAPITALISM .
    Last edited by Lokus; January 20, 2019 at 08:09am.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    According to daily beast . 7.3 percent of Americans born between 1980 and 1998 who now identify as LGBT—up from 5.8 percent in 2012. Thats called a minority toy profit forcast .
    Where is your data to support only gay fans would buy these toys?

    Because that's a ridiculous claim unless you can actually back that up with data.

    Based on what I've seen online, there appears to be a lot of interest in the show from young girls, as well as from a generation of fans prior to ours who did not grow up with POP and MOTU. Sexuality should not be a focus here. There's a huge wealth of fan art and cosplay popping up, and a good portion of it is from people on social media who appear to be in their 20s.

    I understand the look of this show is not for you. And it's always possible the toys won't sell well, because some toys succeed and others don't. But I know of no data that supports your particular position.
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  5. #105
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    After Mattel made Barbie more inclusive and introduced new body types sales rose 24%. It's one of the only lines they had that saw an increase. While I'm definitely not a fan of the redesigns at all and find no aesthetic appeal in them, there is an historical market for these types of toys. If the show is popular enough with little girls, the toys will hit the shelves.

  6. #106
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    I have gay and bi friends who do not really feel the new She-Ra is for them. They won’t be buying the new figures out of urge since the new show do not appeal to them. The only real “gayness” I personally picked up in the show was Bow and the obvious feelings between Netossa and Spinerella. Yea sure Adora and Catra had some tension but that wasn’t driven by lust but by friendship. If they end up being gay so what, I didn’t sense that “agenda” with their relationship. It was more jealousy and envy. Even though I am gay I don’t care about any LGBT agenda. All is equal so to me I don’t watch a show thinking how it would include my “minority” - I watch it because of the story. There must be some way Mattel can come to terms with the body size “issues”. They would not have approved the “shapes” of the princesses knowing they’d go bankrupt as a result of the body size. Agreed some of us love looking more at a sexy She-Ra than a body-shamed one, but isn’t it time we all caught up with REALITY. I bet you not all of us on here look like Chris Pratt. And we don’t need to feel bad about it.

  7. #107
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    If toys come out to retail in say July of this year and we see stuff already getting clearanced out by July of next year or no waves after the initial couple, we'll have a good idea of how it is doing in retail.

  8. #108
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    Lokus' LGBTQ comment and Val's post about it aside, it appears depp77 and I were both correct in our interpretation of the intent of Lokus' post -- i.e., there's just not enough adult fans to sell product.

    I haven't seen the toys and I'm certainly not a toy aficionado, so I can't comment knowledgeably on the quality or attractiveness of the toys issue and will, thus, leave that judgment to Lokus, depp77 and those who know much more about toys than me.

    If Val is correct about young girls' interest -- and I've rarely known him to be wrong about anything in the entertainment/toy world -- then one would think that would be enough to generate significant sales, so the lack of toys is puzzling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    I am saying the cartoon was very bold and risqué . Good for them , GREAT for collectors . BAD for business . HORRID NIGHTMARE for toy investors .

    Not enough people will buy them . 12 dozen adult die hard fans who can afford horrible prices is not worth it . Record breaking sales in Sweden is not enough .
    Pakistan , Iran and Turkey will ban this . How many American parents boycott this too ? Parents get to decide what values they wanna force on their children .
    They are too different shaped and thats expensive to produce . They will be very expensive to sell . Cheap toys are very attractive to parents .

    The Princesses are ugly . The quality hand drawn animation we enjoyed from the 80,s exists only in anime . Flash animation is a horrible curse . While everything has moved foward and improved . Cartoon quality has sadly regressed
    Oh yes and the Princesses are UGLY . They are disproportionate and lacking parts . Evil ugly monsters sell , Mutant ninja turtles sell . Ugly princesses do not sell . Mickey Mouse decides and defines a princess . You cannot fight the MOUSE . All hail the MOUSE .
    Society is obsessed with beauty . This is encoded into our DNA . Its scientifically observed that a baby will keep his attention on an attractive pretty face 2 to 5 minutes longer .

    According to daily beast . 7.3 percent of Americans born between 1980 and 1998 who now identify as LGBT—up from 5.8 percent in 2012. Thats called a minority toy profit forcast .

    Now if the majority of the planet likes to buy Barbie dolls and Disney Princess dolls and 80,s She Ra dolls . Thats not called bigotry , thats called preference.

    WELCOME TO REALITY AND CAPITALISM .
    - - - Updated - - -

    I feel badly about not looking like Chris Pratt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiaan View Post
    I have gay and bi friends who do not really feel the new She-Ra is for them. They won’t be buying the new figures out of urge since the new show do not appeal to them. The only real “gayness” I personally picked up in the show was Bow and the obvious feelings between Netossa and Spinerella. Yea sure Adora and Catra had some tension but that wasn’t driven by lust but by friendship. If they end up being gay so what, I didn’t sense that “agenda” with their relationship. It was more jealousy and envy. Even though I am gay I don’t care about any LGBT agenda. All is equal so to me I don’t watch a show thinking how it would include my “minority” - I watch it because of the story. There must be some way Mattel can come to terms with the body size “issues”. They would not have approved the “shapes” of the princesses knowing they’d go bankrupt as a result of the body size. Agreed some of us love looking more at a sexy She-Ra than a body-shamed one, but isn’t it time we all caught up with REALITY. I bet you not all of us on here look like Chris Pratt. And we don’t need to feel bad about it.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; January 20, 2019 at 03:11pm.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    If toys come out to retail in say July of this year and we see stuff already getting clearanced out by July of next year or no waves after the initial couple, we'll have a good idea of how it is doing in retail.
    Agreed.
    And even then, that doesn't mean the show isn't getting great ratings. It would just mean merchandise isn't performing. And in today's market (as it's been for almost ten years now), action figures are harder and harder to sell. The heyday of the 80s and the toy aisle is looooong behind us, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    there's just not enough adult fans to sell product.
    Might be!
    But their audience in brick'n'mortar wouldn't be adults, at least primarily. They want to reach kids.
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  10. #110
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    Good point, Val. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

    For me personally, I mourn how so many children no longer creatively play with action figures and playsets. I believe something big was lost when so many children in this new generation made the switch (pun intended) over to video games. I will say that I was delighted to see a resurgence of action figures and playsets in our household because of the popularity of wrestling. But it was short-lived -- a year or so, but long enough for Max to accumulate over a hundred and fifty wrestler figures and six wrestling rings, along with plenty of accessories -- and now our young Max is pretty much focused on gaming. Thanks heavens he's also a voracious reader. We passed along his wrestlers and rings to a family with younger children that are in to wrestling.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Agreed.
    And even then, that doesn't mean the show isn't getting great ratings. It would just mean merchandise isn't performing. And in today's market (as it's been for almost ten years now), action figures are harder and harder to sell. The heyday of the 80s and the toy aisle is looooong behind us, sadly.



    Might be!
    But their audience in brick'n'mortar wouldn't be adults, at least primarily. They want to reach kids.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; January 20, 2019 at 03:54pm.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Good point, Val. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

    For me personally, I mourn how so many children no longer creatively play with action figures and playsets. I believe something big was lost when so many children in this new generation made the switch (pun intended) over to video games. I will say that I was delighted to see a resurgence of action figures and playsets in our household because of the popularity of wrestling. But it was short-lived -- a year or so, but long enough for Max to accumulate over a hundred and fifty wrestler figures and six wrestling rings, along with plenty of accessories -- and now our young Max is pretty much focused on gaming. Thanks heavens he's also a voracious reader. We passed along his wrestlers and rings to a family with younger children that are in to wrestling.
    I feel there just needs to be more cross-branding, just like there was with toys and cartoons. I truly believe the Skylanders route is the way to go, but make the figurines actually playable.

    The ideal would be that achievements could be unlocked with the figures as well as in the game, encouraging outdoor play and cross play (toys that interacted with toys from other accounts).

    Whoever figures out how to do that will dominate the toy market.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-dude View Post
    I feel there just needs to be more cross-branding, just like there was with toys and cartoons. I truly believe the Skylanders route is the way to go, but make the figurines actually playable.

    The ideal would be that achievements could be unlocked with the figures as well as in the game, encouraging outdoor play and cross play (toys that interacted with toys from other accounts).

    Whoever figures out how to do that will dominate the toy market.

    They already done that with Starlinks . Your spaceship can swop out pilots and wings and weapons physically and automatically translates into the game . Each part needs its own microchip and thats pricey . Your average skylander statue just needed one microchip making it less pricey . Starlinks does offer virtual ingame buying of spaceships and weapons at a reduced cost and that cuts out toys . Problem is price price price . I know Skylanders flew off your shelves in its prime but in my part of the developing world they were a failure . A big boys toy that few could afford .

    I have a good memory when MOTU first came out it when i was 6 years old . It was 7 Rand the equivalent of your 50c USD . At the end of the day its about money . Cheap plastic toys from Asia, dominate the toy market . Parents dont care for brand name products , the cheaper the better , its their wallet . Children are very easy to please. Any toy is better than none even if its not exactly what they wanted . Most children including me score on generous collections if parents were fans of that brand . My parents loved Smurfs , I assume they watched the cartoons before i was born ? I had a bag full of them little blue beasties before i was 6 . I had no connection or cartoon exposure but i played with and enjoyed them .
    Last edited by Lokus; January 21, 2019 at 01:05am.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Parents dont care for brand name products , the cheaper the better , its their wallet . Children are very easy to please. Any toy is better than none even if its not exactly what they wanted . Most children including me score on generous collections if parents were fans of that brand .
    I definitely don't agree. I feel it depends more on the age of the child, and also what they are exposed to.

    The younger the child, yes, it's easier to get them random toys and they might be happy with them. But they older and more aware they get, the more they are going to make choices based on their own interests, and also social influences.

    There's exposure to what they watch on TV (live and streaming), what they see on the internet, what they see in stores, and what they see their friends liking / enjoying.

    I know that will also vary country to country.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-dude View Post
    I feel there just needs to be more cross-branding, just like there was with toys and cartoons. I truly believe the Skylanders route is the way to go, but make the figurines actually playable.

    The ideal would be that achievements could be unlocked with the figures as well as in the game, encouraging outdoor play and cross play (toys that interacted with toys from other accounts).

    Whoever figures out how to do that will dominate the toy market.
    One of the reasons I was excited for Lego Dimensions when it first started coming out. Sure the sets were tiny, but they still worked with larger sets and you could play them in the games. Of course the best ones I've seen are the toys that let you build a model that you can program on your tablet. My niece has a blast with her little maze runner module.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I definitely don't agree. I feel it depends more on the age of the child, and also what they are exposed to.

    The younger the child, yes, it's easier to get them random toys and they might be happy with them. But they older and more aware they get, the more they are going to make choices based on their own interests, and also social influences.

    There's exposure to what they watch on TV (live and streaming), what they see on the internet, what they see in stores, and what they see their friends liking / enjoying.

    I know that will also vary country to country.
    This is true. How many of us had our heart set on a specific toy or brand, only to be disappointed when some well meaning relation got us something similar to it? Of course you make a show of liking it because you're not a spoiled brat, but that doesn't change the fact that Leader-1 is no substitute for Starscream.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    Kudos to you for not falling into the easy trap. And I hope you feel better soon.
    Thank you, Asher. Just dealing with the side effects of the stupid antibiotics now. UGH, I hate meds!

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    To the current conversation: Kids are fickle. I used to think I could guess what my kids would be into, but they constantly surprise me. So my daughter is currently obsessed, and I do mean obsessed, with the new Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters show. I have never seen her take to anything like it before. I watched a few episodes and I really did not see the appeal, but this kid is over the moon for it.

    We really try to limit screen time, but since we found it she has watched both seasons twice. She will do extra school work or chores to earn it and she just keeps asking to watch that. I guess my point is you never really know what kids are going to be into. At first glance both of my kids stuck their nose up at the new She-Ra, but they ended up enjoying it when we watched it together.
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  16. #116
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    So ... what does everyone think we'll see from Mattel? I think all of the unique body shapes will prove a new challenge for Mattel who generally just slap new paint, costume details and heads on the same bodies over and over again.

    As such, I would expect the initial releases to be smaller than usual because of the time and expense required to create all of the unique bucks / moulds.

    In terms of action figures, I'd expect to see: She-Ra, Catra, Glimmer OR Bow (I think they'll leave one of them to "headline" the second assortment, along with Adora), Entrapta or Scorpia (possibly Entrapta as she may provide the most parts re-use and is cheaper to make since the figure would use less plastic) and ... Perfuma or Mermista (possibly Perfuma since Mermista would require swappable parts).

    I'm not sure about the likelihood of Swift Wind or a playset. Making a decent Swift Wind, when there is no potential for parts re-use (at least at this stage) may be too much of an investment for Mattel. Unless they can re-use the horse mould for another toy line. And playsets are rare to see, even for more established toy lines. Perhaps we might get a cheap "diorama" style playset with swappable cardboard backgrounds of the Crystal Castle, Castle Bright Moon, Whispering Woods and Shadow Weaver's quarters.

    I'd also expect to see some kind of "doll" range, but it may be limited to She-Ra and Catra initially. Even that would require two wholly unique bodies (a tall, muscular body and a shorter, thinner body). Swift Wind might be more likely in the larger 12" scale as Mattel may have an existing horse mould that they can reuse (e.g. one of the Wonder Woman horses perhaps).

  17. #117
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    They made Swift Wind such a non character I would not expect to see him as a toy.
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  18. #118
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    I went to a girls toy isle at Target yesterday and it is still mostly just dolls you see for figures. I think there will be a lot of different versions of Adora/She-Ra and Catra (dolls and action figures in different scales). Bow and Glimmer will probably see several toy forms to a somewhat lesser extent. After those 4 characters, it will probably be hit or miss on the other characters depending on how big Mattel goes for the initial release. If they play it safe, it might not be much. I'd expect a Swiftwind, not sure they'd do a playset.

  19. #119
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    Yeah, I expect She-Ra, Glimmer, Catra and Bow to be the focus for sure.

    I'd be super stoked for a Hordak, but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't released.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    I am saying the cartoon was very bold and risqué . Good for them , GREAT for collectors . BAD for business . HORRID NIGHTMARE for toy investors .

    Not enough people will buy them . 12 dozen adult die hard fans who can afford horrible prices is not worth it . Record breaking sales in Sweden is not enough .
    Pakistan , Iran and Turkey will ban this . How many American parents boycott this too ? Parents get to decide what values they wanna force on their children .
    They are too different shaped and thats expensive to produce . They will be very expensive to sell . Cheap toys are very attractive to parents .

    The Princesses are ugly . The quality hand drawn animation we enjoyed from the 80,s exists only in anime . Flash animation is a horrible curse . While everything has moved foward and improved . Cartoon quality has sadly regressed
    Oh yes and the Princesses are UGLY . They are disproportionate and lacking parts . Evil ugly monsters sell , Mutant ninja turtles sell . Ugly princesses do not sell . Mickey Mouse decides and defines a princess . You cannot fight the MOUSE . All hail the MOUSE .
    Society is obsessed with beauty . This is encoded into our DNA . Its scientifically observed that a baby will keep his attention on an attractive pretty face 2 to 5 minutes longer .

    According to daily beast . 7.3 percent of Americans born between 1980 and 1998 who now identify as LGBT—up from 5.8 percent in 2012. Thats called a minority toy profit forcast .

    Now if the majority of the planet likes to buy Barbie dolls and Disney Princess dolls and 80,s She Ra dolls . Thats not called bigotry , thats called preference.

    WELCOME TO REALITY AND CAPITALISM .
    As a huge fan of both Classic & New MOTU/Classic & New POP, and NA Of HM I believe there will be a huge market for the new POP figures as Val has so very well stated. I also want to add that just because a few people think that the new designs are unattractive, not everybody feels that way. There is no one standard of beauty or attractiveness that one has to aspire to in order to be deemed attractive. Attraction is subjective after all, what one finds unattractive, others may find beautiful. You can't decide for the whole world whether something is attractive or not. The same goes for people. Supergirl actress/activist Chyler Leigh wrote a very thought-provoking article on the subjective quality of "what is beautiful" at Create Change. It's something everyone would do well to read. It's called Your Stripes Are Beautiful.


    https://createchange.me/your-stripes-are-beautiful/
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  21. #121
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    I personally think that this is a double edged sword. On the one hand, I don't believe it's popular enough to generate large scale nationwide store sales. Sure plenty of people enjoyed the cartoon, but not all of those people are going to buy toys. There are also lots of people (kids) who don't have access to Netflix. They haven't been introduced to this line at all.

    Next route would be like a Super 7 collectibles. This would be a more limited line. You'd have some adults that would buy them for themselves, some for their kids. But you also have a lot of adults that would rather buy classic She-Ra figures instead. And then some like me that, even though I enjoyed the cartoon, have no interest in figures from it.


    No one should feel bad about it. There are many shows, anime especially, that are wildly popular but still can't support a toy line.
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  22. #122
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    With such a small main cast, it seems inevitable they'll release variants if they go this route. Which may end up being like those "Water Wars" variants Spiderman TAS had released with it.

    For playsets they might have luck tying into Lego.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    As a huge fan of both Classic & New MOTU/Classic & New POP, and NA Of HM I believe there will be a huge market for the new POP figures as Val has so very well stated. I also want to add that just because a few people think that the new designs are unattractive, not everybody feels that way. There is no one standard of beauty or attractiveness that one has to aspire to in order to be deemed attractive. Attraction is subjective after all, what one finds unattractive, others may find beautiful. You can't decide for the whole world whether something is attractive or not. The same goes for people. Supergirl actress/activist Chyler Leigh wrote a very thought-provoking article on the subjective quality of "what is beautiful" at Create Change. It's something everyone would do well to read. It's called Your Stripes Are Beautiful.


    https://createchange.me/your-stripes-are-beautiful/
    I really liked Chyler Leigh in Grey's Anatomy. I thought she was a pretty likeable person, but articles like this make me really angry. Please famous woman, who (even on her worst day without make up) looks better than 50% of the rest of the world in full make up, tell us how hard your life was considering your utter ugliness. Complaining about an industry that is the definition of looks and contemporary beauty, a business where that is literally the only thing that matters. I would rather call this a case of child abuse or bad parenting. She has no clue what it really means to get bullied in school or at work because you are cursed with an appearance that most people find unattractive or even despicable. I have witness stuff like this for years and yet I don't come even close to being able to comprehend how this person must have felt. But please Hollywood-Lady, preach some more from your ivory tower about a few stripes... geez

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    With such a small main cast, it seems inevitable they'll release variants if they go this route. Which may end up being like those "Water Wars" variants Spiderman TAS had released with it.

    For playsets they might have luck tying into Lego.
    "Battle armour" variants for She-Ra, Glimmer and Bow seem probably, since they actually wear them in the final episode. And if we learn more about Mara, maybe we'll get a Mara as She-Ra variant also?

    I wonder if Lego would be interested in the She-Ra: PoP licence when Megablocks has the He-Man licence? I suspect not, but Lego had obtained a few oddball licences over the years.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melfis View Post
    I really liked Chyler Leigh in Grey's Anatomy. I thought she was a pretty likeable person, but articles like this make me really angry. Please famous woman, who (even on her worst day without make up) looks better than 50% of the rest of the world in full make up, tell us how hard your life was considering your utter ugliness. Complaining about an industry that is the definition of looks and contemporary beauty, a business where that is literally the only thing that matters. I would rather call this a case of child abuse or bad parenting. She has no clue what it really means to get bullied in school or at work because you are cursed with an appearance that most people find unattractive or even despicable. I have witness stuff like this for years and yet I don't come even close to being able to comprehend how this person must have felt. But please Hollywood-Lady, preach some more from your ivory tower about a few stripes... geez
    Typical response.

    Just because someone is a Hollywood actress, doesn't mean they don't know what it's like to be bullied. You know absolutely nothing about what this woman has had to face in her life, but I do because I care and take time to get to know people before judging them. You anti-Hollywood types are incapable of understanding that celebrities are human beings too, and as someone who has suffered bullying online and offline, I know a genuine case of what it feels like to suffer. You can't comprehend it, but I sure can. As part of the Create Change cause, I've spent a whole day in defence of wonderful people like Alyssa Milano and Sean Astin who have been abused by bigots for standing up for what they believe in, and trying to fight bigotry.
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

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