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Thread: The he-men before he-man

  1. #51
    Heroic Warrior Palidor's Avatar
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    I'm of the mind that Torak pre-dates Grayskull and He-Ro. I like the idea that maybe he's an ancestor of Grayskull or the founder of his tribe.

    Either way, I very much like the lineage of He-Men concept. I stick mostly to the Classics narrative save for a few details.I include Vykron as a He-Man in mine (the Goddess freed him from his fatel the costumes are two separate guys).

    I didn't know about the Guerrero version's Megaton moniker, but I named mine Fyron and gave him a fire salamander mount.

    20190323_181406.jpg

    I arranged my He-Men left to right in chronological order. Some of the details on these guys are unfinished, such as: Torak needing a palette adjustment and a new loincloth and I need to get him a good dinosaur mount; He-Ro's pre-amnesia cosmic mount will be called Star Stridor (needs cosmic paint swap) and will be the predecessor to Stridor; Oo-Larr rides a Griffin since they're both from the Vine Jungle, but I need to craft a helmet for it.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palidor View Post
    I'm of the mind that Torak pre-dates Grayskull and He-Ro. I like the idea that maybe he's an ancestor of Grayskull or the founder of his tribe.

    Either way, I very much like the lineage of He-Men concept. I stick mostly to the Classics narrative save for a few details.I include Vykron as a He-Man in mine (the Goddess freed him from his fatel the costumes are two separate guys).

    I didn't know about the Guerrero version's Megaton moniker, but I named mine Fyron and gave him a fire salamander mount.

    20190323_181406.jpg

    I arranged my He-Men left to right in chronological order. Some of the details on these guys are unfinished, such as: Torak needing a palette adjustment and a new loincloth and I need to get him a good dinosaur mount; He-Ro's pre-amnesia cosmic mount will be called Star Stridor (needs cosmic paint swap) and will be the predecessor to Stridor; Oo-Larr rides a Griffin since they're both from the Vine Jungle, but I need to craft a helmet for it.
    Dude, I like this. Very cool.

  3. #53
    Heroic Warrior PantherCult's Avatar
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    I love the idea of 5,000 years of history during which the protection of the Sword of He is passed down hero to hero and the protection of the secrets of Greyskull passed down Sorceress to Sorceress.

    Because 5,000 years is a lot of time to fill I created my own head canon that incorporates heroes from all of the various He-Man knock-off lines as protectors of the Sword of He - so my lineage includes Warlord (Lost World of Warlord); Goldran (Fuerza T); Hercules (World of Warlord); Orion (Defenders of the Planets); Triton (Galaxy Warriors); Sunhawk (Galaxy Fighters); Herocon (Fantasy World) and John Blackstar (Blackstar) among others. It gives me reason and motivation to customize the characters for those lines in Classics and create bios that fit in and with the existing Classics canon.

  4. #54
    King Of Avalon griffen112182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantherCult View Post
    I love the idea of 5,000 years of history during which the protection of the Sword of He is passed down hero to hero and the protection of the secrets of Greyskull passed down Sorceress to Sorceress.

    Because 5,000 years is a lot of time to fill I created my own head canon that incorporates heroes from all of the various He-Man knock-off lines as protectors of the Sword of He - so my lineage includes Warlord (Lost World of Warlord); Goldran (Fuerza T); Hercules (World of Warlord); Orion (Defenders of the Planets); Triton (Galaxy Warriors); Sunhawk (Galaxy Fighters); Herocon (Fantasy World) and John Blackstar (Blackstar) among others. It gives me reason and motivation to customize the characters for those lines in Classics and create bios that fit in and with the existing Classics canon.
    I also like the idea that some of the guardians may have passed their essence of their skills and experience into the sword for Adam and Adora to use later. Like Vikor skills with the Axe or Wun-Dar's knowledge of fine baked goods. Oo-Larr gives Adam the skill to handle himself in jungle situations and be good with the spear and knife. He-Ro provided his knowledge of magic and KG is warrior skill and compassion. Even Adam's essence is probably passed down to his son Darius when it is time for him to take up the sword.

    We still need more guardians clarified though we only have a few names. Those names are(in best remembered order):

    He-Ro
    King Greyskull
    Queen Veena(for a short amount of time)
    Vikor
    He-Ra(KG, Veena, and He-Ro's granddaughter)
    Wun-Dar
    Oo-Larr
    Prince Adam(He-Man)
    Princess Adora(She-Ra)
    Prince Darius(He-Ro II)

    Vykron was not a guardian but he was an ally to a guardian, Oo-Larr. Much like Man-At-Arms is for Adam in the present day.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffen112182 View Post
    I also like the idea that some of the guardians may have passed their essence of their skills and experience into the sword for Adam and Adora to use later. Like Vikor skills with the Axe or Wun-Dar's knowledge of fine baked goods. Oo-Larr gives Adam the skill to handle himself in jungle situations and be good with the spear and knife. He-Ro provided his knowledge of magic and KG is warrior skill and compassion. Even Adam's essence is probably passed down to his son Darius when it is time for him to take up the sword.
    I like this. I mean, we know that King Grayskull infused the sword with his power, so why should he be the only one to leave something behind.
    Makes you wonder, where She-Ra's additional powers come from.

  6. #56
    master of accessories facet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffen112182 View Post
    I also like the idea that some of the guardians may have passed their essence of their skills and experience into the sword for Adam and Adora to use later. Like Vikor skills with the Axe or Wun-Dar's knowledge of fine baked goods. Oo-Larr gives Adam the skill to handle himself in jungle situations and be good with the spear and knife. He-Ro provided his knowledge of magic and KG is warrior skill and compassion. Even Adam's essence is probably passed down to his son Darius when it is time for him to take up the sword.

    We still need more guardians clarified though we only have a few names. Those names are(in best remembered order):

    He-Ro
    King Greyskull
    Queen Veena(for a short amount of time)
    Vikor
    He-Ra(KG, Veena, and He-Ro's granddaughter)
    Wun-Dar
    Oo-Larr
    Prince Adam(He-Man)
    Princess Adora(She-Ra)
    Prince Darius(He-Ro II)

    Vykron was not a guardian but he was an ally to a guardian, Oo-Larr. Much like Man-At-Arms is for Adam in the present day.
    Like I’ve said in the past, I disagree with you that Vykron should not be one of the “he-men”. All iterations and variations of heman from conceptual ideas to the final product have been part of this history and Vykron is one of them so it stands to reason he should have been written as one of the “he-men” ( torak and megaton in future bios as well). Why stray from something when it fits so well together, just doesn’t make sense to me? They are perfect candidates for this title.

  7. #57
    Heroic slave of time man-at-work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by facet View Post
    Like I’ve said in the past, I disagree with you that Vykron should not be one of the “he-men”. All iterations and variations of heman from conceptual ideas to the final product have been part of this history and Vykron is one of them so it stands to reason he should have been written as one of the “he-men” ( torak and megaton in future bios as well). Why stray from something when it fits so well together, just doesn’t make sense to me? They are perfect candidates for this title.
    I also fully support Vykron as one of the He-Men. It was the concept figure that greenlighted the toy line in Mattel, so I never understood why Classics canon neglected this character as a mere gladiator. In fact, I use green sword for him. That's one of those many details in Classics canon that I've decided to ignore (however, I accept most of what the canon has established).
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  8. #58
    King Of Avalon griffen112182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by facet View Post
    Like I’ve said in the past, I disagree with you that Vykron should not be one of the “he-men”. All iterations and variations of heman from conceptual ideas to the final product have been part of this history and Vykron is one of them so it stands to reason he should have been written as one of the “he-men” ( torak and megaton in future bios as well). Why stray from something when it fits so well together, just doesn’t make sense to me? They are perfect candidates for this title.
    Well Vykron was around the same time as Oo-Larr, so he can be a guardian at the same time. Besides the sword may have had more than 1 guardian at several points for all we know. If you want Vykron as a guardian I am all for it, I have him as 1 of Oo-Larr's allies in my own personal canon anyway.

    As for Torak and Megaton, we just need to wait for Penny to name drop them in a bio and then they are canon. We have a 5000 year gap between KG and Adam to play with. We also have a gap between the Overlords creation of the sword and them giving it to He-Ro, we may have guardians during that gap as well. Anyone who protects the sword is welcome in my book.

    Question though, what do you think Torak and Megaton could have added to the Power Sword if their essence and experience become a part of it?

    Vikor: I always figure his skill with an axe
    Wun-Dar: the laser pistol skills and maybe a knowledge of magic bread
    Oo-Larr: the skills with the spear and his knowledge of jungle warfare/survival tactics.
    Vykron: could have added skills with jet pack flying, wielding an axe, and heavy armor combat with some knowledge of artillery
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  9. #59
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    I've always wondered if Oo-Larr and Wun-Dar were contemporaries, having both come from early vintage toy-line related stories. Maybe a young He-Man might have encountered older versions of the two characters during some of his adventures. Assuming Oo-Larr had confrontations with Skeletor, he shouldn't be too much older by the time He-Man takes up his mantle as the protector of the power of Grayskull.

    Vykron's death always reminds me of Boba-Fett's death in Return of the Jedi. One was torn in half by a massive gorilla, the other was knocked into the mouth of a giant underground monster. Both seem like kind of embarrassing ways for action-hero type characters to die.
    Last edited by Despondor; March 30, 2019 at 09:27pm.

  10. #60
    master of accessories facet's Avatar
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    Just found this in the mark Taylor album don’t think this really counts as another heman though I would show it,pre Mattel. 6BB9DDD7-C2D4-4D41-AFA3-46515D94F120.jpeg

  11. #61
    Heroic slave of time man-at-work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by facet View Post
    Just found this in the mark Taylor album don’t think this really counts as another heman though I would show it,pre Mattel. 6BB9DDD7-C2D4-4D41-AFA3-46515D94F120.jpeg
    That's an interesting design. If it is pre-Mattel, it has several MOTU elements there (axe, shield, the furry boots, Skeletor's harness). I t would be a figure I'd happily buy.
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  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior Palidor's Avatar
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    Looks like I have my next custom figure idea lol. Thanks!

  13. #63
    Heroic Warrior He-Ro Eats Soup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by facet View Post
    Just found this in the mark Taylor album don’t think this really counts as another heman though I would show it,pre Mattel. 6BB9DDD7-C2D4-4D41-AFA3-46515D94F120.jpeg
    This guy needs a backstory. Maybe make him the best cook in all of Preternia; or make him a guy who is always helping people move.

  14. #64
    Heroic Warrior AT-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Ro Eats Soup View Post
    This guy needs a backstory. Maybe make him the best cook in all of Preternia; or make him a guy who is always helping people move.
    He could also go back in time and kill Horde Prime before he's born, then marry Skeleteen in the future.
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  15. #65
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I'm still really wanting to learn what ultimately happened to Oo-Lar. Did he die? Retire? Leave Eternia? Get lost in time? Or is he still "out there" somewhere, helping where and how he can, a "He-Man" without a banner to wave, so to speak.
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  16. #66
    Heroic Warrior Palidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    I'm still really wanting to learn what ultimately happened to Oo-Lar. Did he die? Retire? Leave Eternia? Get lost in time? Or is he still "out there" somewhere, helping where and how he can, a "He-Man" without a banner to wave, so to speak.
    I figure Old Man Oo-Larr is still wrecking stuff with style if Randor and Skeletor are still kicking around.

    OLD MAN OO-LARR.jpg
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    Last edited by Palidor; October 13, 2019 at 06:19pm. Reason: image resolution issue

  17. #67
    master of accessories facet's Avatar
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    Well we can officially say now the Vykron is officially one of the “He-men” of the past as he should have been. Thanks to penny and erik.

  18. #68
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by man-at-work View Post
    And now we try to invent a chronology based on actual precedence of concepts for the real toy figure:
    3. Torak (Mark Taylor, 1979)
    4. Vikor (Mark Taylor, don't know the year, but this was actually a sketch for the Conan toy line aborted at Mattel, but this sketch inspired the barbarian theme for He-Man)
    5. Vykron (Roger Sweet, 1981)
    6. Tony Guerrero's sculpt (this was a late prototype that even was almost stolen by a boy participating in the user acceptance test for this concept, the line was already about to be produced)
    I would just add that Mark Taylor designed the costume for "Vykron" while Roger Sweet sculpted the body by packing muscles over a Big Jim figure.

    Maybe put in a #7 for He-Man from the B-sheet, with helmet, by Mark Taylor

  19. #69
    Heroic Warrior Greenskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    I would just add that Mark Taylor designed the costume for "Vykron" while Roger Sweet sculpted the body by packing muscles over a Big Jim figure.

    Maybe put in a #7 for He-Man from the B-sheet, with helmet, by Mark Taylor
    I always thought that Mark's design for the helmeted He-Man was based off of Roger's Vykron sculpt. Are you sure it was the other way around?
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  20. #70
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenskull View Post
    I always thought that Mark's design for the helmeted He-Man was based off of Roger's Vykron sculpt. Are you sure it was the other way around?
    The "Vykron" has a different style of helmet (no horns). In a couple of interviews Roger said Mark designed the harness (the only part of the costume that ended up on He-Man), and the rest of it looks based on Torak (especially bracers) and probably this early pre-Mattel design (helmet). To be sure "Vykron" predates the Mark Taylor He-Man B-sheet, but Vykron was not purely designed by Roger Sweet. Roger did the muscles and Mark did the clothing.

    Unnamed Mark Taylor:


    (image via Rebecca Taylor)

    Torak:


    (Image via P&H Foundation)

    Vykron:



    (Image via P&H Foundation)




    Mark Taylor B-Sheet:


    (Image via P&H Foundation)

    Regarding the Tony Guerrero sculpt, it's not dated so we don't know if it comes before or after Mark's B-sheets. The helmet on it has the horns, but the design slightly different from the B-sheet.

  21. #71
    Heroic Warrior Greenskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    The "Vykron" has a different style of helmet (no horns). In a couple of interviews Roger said Mark designed the harness (the only part of the costume that ended up on He-Man), and the rest of it looks based on Torak (especially bracers) and probably this early pre-Mattel design (helmet). To be sure "Vykron" predates the Mark Taylor He-Man B-sheet, but Vykron was not purely designed by Roger Sweet. Roger did the muscles and Mark did the clothing.

    Unnamed Mark Taylor:

    https://i.imgur.com/UQoro96.jpg
    (image via Rebecca Taylor)

    Torak:

    https://i.imgur.com/h0p8JXg.jpg
    (Image via P&H Foundation)

    Vykron:

    https://i.imgur.com/gIdNPTh.jpg

    (Image via P&H Foundation)

    https://i.imgur.com/RaC2xZl.png
    https://i.imgur.com/i76zaYy.png

    Mark Taylor B-Sheet:

    https://i.imgur.com/GUp2ZPb.jpg
    (Image via P&H Foundation)

    Regarding the Tony Guerrero sculpt, it's not dated so we don't know if it comes before or after Mark's B-sheets. The helmet on it has the horns, but the design slightly different from the B-sheet.
    I knew that Mark Taylor had designed Torak years before Roger Sweet mocked up the Vykron figures. I didn't know that Mark Taylor designed the harness for Vykron. I thought Vykron was all Roger Sweet and that Mark’s early He-Man designs were based off those mockups and then evolved from there.

    Early_He-Man.jpg
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  22. #72
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenskull View Post
    I knew that Mark Taylor had designed Torak years before Roger Sweet mocked up the Vykron figures. I didn't know that Mark Taylor designed the harness for Vykron. I thought Vykron was all Roger Sweet and that Mark’s early He-Man designs were based off those mockups and then evolved from there.

    Early_He-Man.jpg
    Roger Sweet talked about Mark Taylor designing the harness for Vykron in his interview with Chris Vint years ago. https://operationretroshock.podbean....eet-interview/

    It's also mentioned tangentially in this old org interview: https://old.he-man.org/site_sects/ar...ws/2005c.shtml

    Q: What was the idea behind He-man's iron cross?

    Roger Sweet: If you are referring to the iron cross on the front of He-Man’s chest halter in the 1982 first production He-Man, you would have to ask Mark Taylor. He added that detail to that figure’s outfit halter. Also, the iron cross was a German military medal. And, it probably was a symbol that dated back to very early historical, even pre-medieval, times.

  23. #73
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    It's actually not specifically an Iron Cross, at least not in all versions. The Iron Cross always has a colored outline. It is, however, clearly a form of the Cross pattée. Why he has that ... no idea. The symbol is historically christian and often connected to knights, but it is a rather simple form that may have shown up in other contexts.
    Of course I have no idea how much Mark Taylor knew about that symbol at the time.

  24. #74
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capeträger View Post
    It's actually not specifically an Iron Cross, at least not in all versions. The Iron Cross always has a colored outline. It is, however, clearly a form of the Cross pattée. Why he has that ... no idea. The symbol is historically christian and often connected to knights, but it is a rather simple form that may have shown up in other contexts.
    Of course I have no idea how much Mark Taylor knew about that symbol at the time.
    Has Mark Taylor ever been asked about it?

  25. #75
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    Has Mark Taylor ever been asked about it?
    Yes, he described it as a knights templar cross. He was just looking for a symbol that looked heroic

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