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Thread: "Why He-Man Is "Not on the Table" for Netflix's 'She-Ra' Reboot"

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by uaxuctum View Post
    I think it's more to do with Mattel's unwillingness to finally ditch the stupid separation between the IPs of He-Man and She-Ra, which are totally separate with respect to copyrights and licensing because Mattel is a toy company with toy-company mentality and originally She-Ra was developed as a doll line for girls, intended to imitate/replicate the success of the He-Man action figure line for boys. But, because of the incredible sexism that still remains in the toy industry, it was never intended that girls would play with "action figures" nor that boys would play with "girlie dolls". So they marketed and licensed the He-Man line and the spinoff She-Ra line as two completely separate things, and their connection was only really established in the Filmation cartoon.

    It appears that Mattel had other plans for the He-Man side of things (most importantly, the new movie with Sony) while DreamWorks was working on the new She-Ra, and it appears they didn't want to allow two different versions of (a unified) MotU to run in parallel, and they (and/or the creative teams of each project) were unwilling to work with a single unified canon (ā la MotUC canon) that both projects would rely on. So apparently they told the She-Ra team that the He-Man side of things was basically off-limits for them and that, while some general references to the overall mythology were allowed, use of the "non-She-Ra" characters (and particularly of He-Man) was to be avoided and that they should focus and concentrate on the She-Ra side of things.

    The inclusion of Tung Lashor and Mara says that this isn't even close to being true.

    Also, "not on the table" doesn't necessarily - or automatically - mean "off limits"; what it could very easily mean is "not where we're focused right now" or "not where we want our story to go in the end".I

    And, if we're being perfectly honest, this version of She-Ra doesn't need He-Man or that side of the MotU franchise mythos in order to work.

  2. #127
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
    The inclusion of Tung Lashor and Mara says that this isn't even close to being true.

    Also, "not on the table" doesn't necessarily - or automatically - mean "off limits"; what it could very easily mean is "not where we're focused right now" or "not where we want our story to go in the end".I

    And, if we're being perfectly honest, this version of She-Ra doesn't need He-Man or that side of the MotU franchise mythos in order to work.
    Don't you know Tung Lashor appeared in the She-Ra cartoon as a member of the Horde? (Rattlor did too)

    And Mara is from NA, which is more far removed from the original He-Man than She-Ra is. In fact, the fact they went with a character that originally was so far away from and unconnected with Eternia, for such a central role in the new First Ones story, says they seemed to be trying to avoid referencing specific well-known vintage-He-Man Eternian characters.
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  3. #128
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    Not featuring or referencing characters from the MotU/He-Man side of the franchise does not mean that they don't have access to those characters.

    I would also point out that the extent to which Mara is interwoven into the lore of Noelle's take on Etheria and She-Ra means that she got access to the character almost immediately upon developing the series and is an indicator that she and her team have far greater access to character rights and resources than people seem to think that they do, but are picking and choosing what they use and what they don't.

  4. #129
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    One interview I listened to early on from Noelle made it seem like they had very limited access to MOTU characters at first besides Hordak, but that got loosened a bit as production went along. Grizzlor is basically a background character in a few episodes and not referred to by name (only in the end credits of one episode which could have been added much later in production once they got further use) and there is no Leech and Mantenna yet. I suspect those two might show up later, but they were basically replaced by Kyle and Rogelio. I doubt we get Kyle, Rogelio, and Lonnie if they had had more access earlier.

  5. #130
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    ^ I don't think that viewpoint holds up due to the fact that Noelle had four seasons of SaPoP mapped out before she officially got the "green light" to do Season 1 .

  6. #131
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    A general outline is not going to contain every detail. I would guess any future appearance by a Leech or Mantenna type could easily be replaced by any generic bad guy. Looking at this past season, Tung Lashor didn't even use his tongue and could have been replaced by any character with a funny name.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    A general outline is not going to contain every detail. I would guess any future appearance by a Leech or Mantenna type could easily be replaced by any generic bad guy. Looking at this past season, Tung Lashor didn't even use his tongue and could have been replaced by any character with a funny name.

    When I say she had four seasons mapped out, I'm not talking about a general outline. I'm talking about four "blocks" of 13 episodes each.

  8. #133
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    Yes, I know she had 4 story arches, but it doesn't mean she had every single detail to every episode planned out and even if she did, things can change. She has a team of writers for her show. If everything single detail was planned out ahead of time, she'd have no need for them.

  9. #134
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    Yes, I know she had 4 story arches, but it doesn't mean she had every single detail to every episode planned out and even if she did, things can change. She has a team of writers for her show. If everything single detail was planned out ahead of time, she'd have no need for them.
    Yes, and she has even revealed that the evolution of some characters that she had initially envisioned changed and was shaped by things such as the voice acting. That is, she had a general idea of where the overall story arcs were going, etc., but many nitty-gritty details were being worked out as they were developing each episode and ideas and nuances and interpretations kept being added by other members of the team.

    I seem to remember she mentioned Catra and Entrapta as two of the characters who were most influenced/changed by this creative process.

    I read about this in a recent interview with the occasion of the release of the latest batch of episodes, so I could try to dig up that article.

    ------ Edit ------

    Found the referenced article. It was on Gizmodo.

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/noelle-steve...sea-1836978486

    This is the relevant part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmodo
    io9: This season paid off Catra’s struggles in a big way. She tried out life by herself in the Crimson Waste but was pulled back in by her need for validation, and she chose to activate the portal rather than let Adora be right once again. Was this always where she was leading, or did her journey evolve through the storytelling?

    Stevenson: When I pictured the series, I pitched a complete story arc with the characters, like major beats already kind of nailed down. But within that, I think our approach to the characters—we’ve set up the major plot points, and then we see how the characters react to them. That’s how I personally write. It helps to know what story you’re telling and where you’re going and generally what ending you have in mind. Once you have that set out, you look to see how your characters behave, and I think there are some surprises along the way.

    For Shadow Weaver, all the plans I had for her, she’s bucked basically all of them. And I think Catra is someone, she’s one of them too. I see her as almost a dual protagonist to Adora. While Adora is on this path of becoming a hero, Catra’s on a darker mirror path of that. I think Catra has really surprised me in a lot of ways too. A lot of that comes from the voice acting, the writing, and the board artists. I’m really excited for her arc coming up. There’s a lot still in store.
    Last edited by uaxuctum; August 14, 2019 at 01:30pm.
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by uaxuctum View Post
    I think it's more to do with Mattel's unwillingness to finally ditch the stupid separation between the IPs of He-Man and She-Ra, which are totally separate with respect to copyrights and licensing because Mattel is a toy company with toy-company mentality and originally She-Ra was developed as a doll line for girls, intended to imitate/replicate the success of the He-Man action figure line for boys. But, because of the incredible sexism that still remains in the toy industry, it was never intended that girls would play with "action figures" nor that boys would play with "girlie dolls". So they marketed and licensed the He-Man line and the spinoff She-Ra line as two completely separate things, and their connection was only really established in the Filmation cartoon.

    It appears that Mattel had other plans for the He-Man side of things (most importantly, the new movie with Sony) while DreamWorks was working on the new She-Ra, and it appears they didn't want to allow two different versions of (a unified) MotU to run in parallel, and they (and/or the creative teams of each project) were unwilling to work with a single unified canon (ā la MotUC canon) that both projects would rely on. So apparently they told the She-Ra team that the He-Man side of things was basically off-limits for them and that, while some general references to the overall mythology were allowed, use of the "non-She-Ra" characters (and particularly of He-Man) was to be avoided and that they should focus and concentrate on the She-Ra side of things.
    This feels 100% spot on to me. We've seen a few examples of this throughout the years. First with the movie development cycles and then again with Super7. Perhaps we're seeing it again here.
    "I wouldn't be surprised if this movie has Adam as a skinny nerd from Earth battling another skinny nerd-hacker from Earth that used an alias of Keldor. They then enter Tron-style to a cyber world called Eternia, where they control muscle-bound avatars to battle (called He-Man and Skeletor). And these same avatars come to life and continue to battle in present-day Earth." - VZX

  11. #136
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    I talked to one of the writers at Power-Con. While she wouldn't confirm it 100%, she basically told me that Leech and Mantenna should appear at some point.

  12. #137
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    We finally have a clear answer as to why He-Man was not on the table for Noelle and her team: DreamWorks only licensed She-Ra, while Mattel licensed He-Man to a different, rival team (the ones producing the MotU Revelation series just announced at PowerCon).

    So, if we had any doubt, it's now crystal clear we'll never get to see Noelle and her team's take on the full MotUverse story, but just the fragmentary one centered on She-Ra, with marginal but very intriguing references to the rest, thus leaving us forever with this uneasy sense of incompleteness and countless unanswered and unanswerable questions of what could have been (just like what happened with 200X, where the Horde was briefly introduced and a She-Ra figure seen at SDCC, but we never got to really see that side of things play out, in this case not because of licensing issues due to the He-Man/She-Ra copyrights split, but simply because the series got outright cancelled).
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  13. #138
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    MoTU has a track record of not really connectin with audiances beyond it's initial generation of fans and ever since things didn't work out with the 02 series, they more or less gave up entirely on that idea and turned MoTU into a brand that more or less cater's exclusivley to the original brand.

    So I have to wonder if they wanted to distance the She-Ra brand from MoTU on perpous, in order to try and use it as a brand to apeal to modern audiances while keeping MoTU as strictly a nostalgia brand.

    The fact that they arn't rebooting MoTU and are instead going with the nostalgiacentric Revelation, lends credence to this idea.

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