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Thread: Notre-Dame fire 04-15-2019

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    Not my Tempo Fendi's Avatar
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    Notre-Dame fire 04-15-2019

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/w...dame-fire.html

    Guys, looks like this going to be the last time we're gonna see the old Notre Dame, it's currently on fire and the Spire collapse earlier.

    Wish Historic site would be much more invulnerable and timeless.

    currently the only news is: No Casualties nor Injuries yet.
    Last edited by Fendi; April 15, 2019 at 02:34pm.

    NOT QUITE MY TEMPO

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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Heart breaking. I have read conflicting reports that it was set deliberately (act of terror during holy week?) and it was tied to renovations. I have never made it to Europe, by the time I do there will be little reason to go.
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    Heroic Warrior He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Heart breaking. I have read conflicting reports that it was set deliberately (act of terror during holy week?) and it was tied to renovations. I have never made it to Europe, by the time I do there will be little reason to go.
    If this was an act of terror then I think you're going to see something major go down in Europe possibly... That being said, there were renovations in process so more than likely somebody on the job goofed up..

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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Another historic church was set on fire in Paris recently, right? I vaguely remember hearing about that. My gut says act of terror, but this will quickly dip into Tar Swamp territory if I say anything else. I guess time will tell, but who knows if the truth will really come out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes, this was a month ago. I wonder if they 'still do not know the cause.'

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1QY0P1

    It is interesting to note that crimes against Christians and Jews are increasing in France.
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    doesn't europe have a problem with people from a certain country starting to gain dominance, hence one of their leaders in the EU?
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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I find it very suspect and hard to believe that they do not know the cause of the other fire. With all of the technology that we have you cannot figure out a month post incident what caused the blaze? Sounds like bologna to me!
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    Heroic Warrior OwenMorton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Kal View Post
    If this was an act of terror then I think you're going to see something major go down in Europe possibly... That being said, there were renovations in process so more than likely somebody on the job goofed up..
    I've seen nothing indicating it's terror-related. France2 have reported that the police are treating it as an accident relating to the renovation work: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ance-cathedral

    It looks from this article as though the suggestion that it's a terror attack comes from a faulty YouTube algorithm linking the fire to 9/11 (!): https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/15/1...ack-fact-check

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I have never made it to Europe, by the time I do there will be little reason to go.
    There are so many reasons to come to Europe, Icey! Please don't write us off. Notre Dame is an enormous loss to our European heritage and culture, but there is more. I've seen it said that part of Europe's problem is that it almost has too much history.....
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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I just read an article that says 10 churches in France have recently been attacked/vandalized

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenMorton View Post
    There are so many reasons to come to Europe, Icey! Please don't write us off. Notre Dame is an enormous loss to our European heritage and culture, but there is more. I've seen it said that part of Europe's problem is that it almost has too much history.....
    I keep seeing images and videos from all over Europe of beautiful, historic sites vandalized and tents and mattresses all over the place and people just sitting in the streets. What the heck is going on over there? I have friends in several European countries who tell me mass, unchecked immigration is ruining their countries.

    Last edited by IceyCat; April 15, 2019 at 04:56pm.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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    Heroic Warrior He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I just read an article that says 10 churches in France have recently been attacked/vandalized

    - - - Updated - - -



    I keep seeing images and videos from all over Europe of beautiful, historic sites vandalized and tents and mattresses all over the place and people just sitting in the streets. What the heck is going on over there? I have friends in several European countries who tell me mass, unchecked immigration is ruining their countries.

    I was just reading an article yesterday that migration issues/concerns in Europe are basically causing the rise of Nationalism within a few countries like France and Italy. Basically the native populations are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by the EU elite (See: Brexit) that is telling them they must accept migrants from other countries and are starting to fight back.

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    I'm waiting for someone somewhere to say Catholics had it coming to them. Sad, but it's the way our world is sometimes.

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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I'm waiting for someone somewhere to say Catholics had it coming to them. Sad, but it's the way our world is sometimes.
    Absolutely not! You know my thoughts on Catholicism, but no one deserves these attacks and acts of desecration.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by He-Kal View Post
    I was just reading an article yesterday that migration issues/concerns in Europe are basically causing the rise of Nationalism within a few countries like France and Italy. Basically the native populations are getting sick and tired of being dictated to by the EU elite (See: Brexit) that is telling them they must accept migrants from other countries and are starting to fight back.
    I honestly do not blame them. If the native people do not rise up and start fighting back they will not have a country or culture anymore.
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    Heroic Warrior OwenMorton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I just read an article that says 10 churches in France have recently been attacked/vandalized

    - - - Updated - - -



    I keep seeing images and videos from all over Europe of beautiful, historic sites vandalized and tents and mattresses all over the place and people just sitting in the streets. What the heck is going on over there? I have friends in several European countries who tell me mass, unchecked immigration is ruining their countries.

    Don't know about the churches; if they are being vandalised it's not making the news. Obviously not good if so though!

    On the latter point, I've travelled very extensively around Europe over the last few years, and it's certainly not full of tents and mattresses. We do have a growing problem with homelessness in the UK which means there are a lot of rough sleepers in London where I work, but being honest, I put that down to the reduction in funding for services due to our austerity politics. But that's as close to Tar Swamp territory as I want to veer. I'm going to settle for saying that I'm devastated to learn of the Notre Dame accident and my thoughts are with the people of Paris tonight.
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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I do take what people say with a grain of salt because I am obviously getting the info second hand, but the videos are disconcerting. If I can find one that is OK to post (not too graphic), I will share. Streets of Paris (if I remember correctly) just lined with mattresses and men just loitering every where doing nothing.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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    We're doing good so far, but I want to put this out there ahead of time...

    Please be aware that while the loss of this historic building is certainly good to discuss here, getting into deeper tangents such as religion or the politics that surround it needs to be kept to the Tar Swamp.

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    Heroic Warrior He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I honestly do not blame them. If the native people do not rise up and start fighting back they will not have a country or culture anymore.

    I don't either for sure. The apparent problem is that so many migrants do not want to assimilate to the culture they have joined (See:Sweden) and it is causing a lot of friction for the natives. Interestingly, the natives are told by EU they must assimilate into the EU collective or else and that rancors some people. I have mixed feelings on this. When you have a distinct culture I believe it is wrong for an outside force to try to tell you must be submerged into the predominant culture's biosphere. That being said, you cannot go into another country and expect to not have a meeting of the minds at all either. There has to be a middle road that unfortunately a lot of migrants in Europe are not willing to accommodate hence a lot of the tension...

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    Heroic Warrior MJOLNIR's Avatar
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    Wow so sorry to hear this. As an Irish Catholic who studied French in school (Grammar and then in High School) this was a celebrated icon in my household growing up. I am more than a little upset about this and Iím not easily shaken. Whatís even more troubling is this is the first that I have heard of this! A missed opportunity on the American press. Letís hope it wasnít anything other than an accident. Some things are so beautiful that they transcend any ideology or politics. Note Dame was clearly one of the creations of man to be celebrated for itís beauty beyond any religion associated with it.

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    Shezar in MOTUC please! The All American's Avatar
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    Very sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fendi View Post
    Wish Historic site would be much more invulnerable and timeless.
    It is very sad, Fender Bender. The architecture and works of art contained within that are now lost were priceless and irreplaceable. It is extremely unfortunate that such treasures were consumed or damaged by the fire.

    Almost equally as sad is the relative ease and quickness that people seem to have in accusing certain portions of the populace for this occurrence. While most early accounts stated that this fire was an accident possibly caused by the renovation equipment within Notre Dame, some were most willing to jump to conclusions about the nature of the blaze and who started it. It is a sad day when xenophobia dictates a person's thoughts/responses despite the sheer lack of evidence...
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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    If you are referring to me or my comments, I did not just jump to that conclusion. There have been at least ten recent vandalisms of churches in the area. One of which was another fire just days after a Priest saw another person trying to start the church on fire (according to reports). Add to that the statistical fact that hate crimes against Christians and Jews are up exponentially in the area. It is not xenophobic to stat facts, but it sure is ignorant to ignore them if they do not fit your narrative or world view. If I am wrong I will gladly eat humble pie. The sad thing is we will probably never know either way. A lot of things get swept under the rug in the name of multiculturalism.
    Last edited by IceyCat; April 15, 2019 at 11:46pm.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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    Heroic Warrior He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    If you are referring to me or my comments, I did not just jump to that conclusion. There have been at least ten recent vandalisms of churches in the area. One of which was another fire just days after a Priest saw another person trying to start the church on fire (according to reports). Add to that the statistical fact that hate crimes against Christians and Jews are up exponentially in the area. It is not xenophobic to stat facts, but it sure is ignorant to ignore them if they do not fit your narrative or world view. If I am wrong I will gladly eat humble pie. The sad thing is we will probably never know either way. A lot of things get swept under the rug in the name of multiculturalism.
    If it turns out that this was just a simple accident I have a feeling conspiracies are going to pop up that there is a cover up for what you are citing.

  21. #21
    Not my Tempo Fendi's Avatar
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    In my opinion I'd still blame on mishap on the renovation, isn't Notre Dame is too large for vandalism?


    --------------------

    I wouldn't go that far on Arson attack, they know it will be a capital punishment to destroy heritage site.
    Last edited by Fendi; April 16, 2019 at 04:22am.

    NOT QUITE MY TEMPO

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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Kal View Post
    If it turns out that this was just a simple accident I have a feeling conspiracies are going to pop up that there is a cover up for what you are citing.
    I sincerely hope that it was an accident, but it just seems suspicious to me that the structure has stood for 800 years. It has made it through two world wars. It just happens to catch on fire during holy week after several other churches in the area have been vandalized and one was set on fire.
    Last edited by IceyCat; April 16, 2019 at 08:41am.
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    never underestimate the destructive power of very OLD electrical work... It could be something as small as a screw hitting a bare wire and POOF- all that dry old wood goes up like a pile of brush..
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    Considering the age of the structure and the scope of the fire it will be nearly impossible to determine exactly what caused it. Unless someone comes out and admits fault, I don't think they'll get a definitive answer.

    That being said there was renovation work being done and supplies being stored where the fire began. It's possible something as simple as a cigarette or heater was the cause. If no renovations had been happening I'd be more suspicious of arson. But at this point I'm thinking it was a foul up of some kind by a worker or faulty piece of equipment.

    I hate to see this. Preserving historical sites like this means a lot to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by H.A.L.9000 View Post
    never underestimate the destructive power of very OLD electrical work... It could be something as small as a screw hitting a bare wire and POOF- all that dry old wood goes up like a pile of brush..
    Exactly. Stuff can sit forever and be OK when all it needed was a little bump to cause disaster.
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    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I was sickened to see hundreds of posts (that you have to translate on FB) celebrating the fire. Those posts were in Arabic.

    Examples:

    The most beautiful news of the year 2019 is this fire yet and if god willing still more in the coming of the days maybe the whole France will burn.

    Something unfortunate �� and from this platform we announce our sympathy and full solidarity with the fire ������������

    From Algeria we announce our solidarity with the fire in the cathedral of Notre Dame and condemn the violent intervention to put it down... and we renew our support for the team in his right to express his heat and his body... we hope that he will move somewhere else to Digested in France ��

    Praise be to God
    Karma for the rest of Europe

    I'm shocked by the joy ��

    And the posts go on and on with many likes and laughing emojis. But someone will come along and tell me that I misinterpreted those posts, and many others, because *insert buzz word here*

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    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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