Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 816171819 LastLast
Results 426 to 450 of 461

Thread: The Star Wars Saga: Episodes I-IX General Discussion Thread

  1. #426
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    The Slime Pit
    Posts
    6,321
    I love Rey. One of the best character arcs of the saga.

  2. #427
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by MJOLNIR View Post
    Agreed! Dark Empire got me back into comics and back into Star Wars after an adolescence of, well yous guys know, adolescence stuff. I love Cam Kennedy's art work.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm going to watch "The Battle for Endor" for the sixth time instead.
    I love Rhe Battle For Endor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    Completely disagree. It's not that fans don't care about the franchise anymore, "the Mandalorian" proves that. It's that people don't care for that movie or those characters.
    In some ways I would agree.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    You almost had me for a minute and then I looked at your screen name - LOL!

    Still haven't seen it, I do not plan to. Been watching V and the remake. The 80's version was so much better story wise, but the newer one has some cool special effects.
    Oddly enough I downloaded the 80's mini series and the first episode, it seems a pretty good show.

  3. #428
    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    It got an 86 percent general audience score on RT versus 43 percent for Last Jedi. The critics, which is the 52, don't like the fan service of Rise of Skywalker. The box office for Star Wars films have been down since the divisive Last Jedi, which dropped hard itself after its big opening weekend. You can't just get everybody back automatically.
    Yes, that would make sense EXCEPT for the trends in the first two trilogies: Empire made less than New Hope but Return of the Jedi did better than Empire. The exact same trend happened with the prequels: The second movie made less than the first, but the third made more than the second but still less than the first. In other words, the third movie saw an uptick. When Empire came out in 1980, it was not heralded as the best movie ever (like nowadays) but was very divisive. But ROTJ was a "return to form" and made more money. The same with the prequels: Attack of the Clones was heavily criticized and made much less that Phantom Menace, but Revenge of Sith was received more favorably and made more than AOTC, but still less than TPM.

    SO: my point is: if in the first two trilogies, the 3rd movie was better received (at the time) by the fans and made more money than the 2nd, why is this not happening with the sequel trilogy? Rise of Skywalker is received more favorably than TLJ, but is STILL making less money. If following the first two trilogies, since fans likes the 3rd movie better than the 2nd the 3rd should make more money than the 2nd (which DID happen TWICE), why is that not happening now?

    (AGAIN: in 1980 and 1983, fans liked Return of the Jedi more than Empire Strikes Back. They are viewed differently now)
    "Everything comes to he who waits."

  4. #429
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,606
    Quote Originally Posted by VZX View Post
    Yes, that would make sense EXCEPT for the trends in the first two trilogies: Empire made less than New Hope but Return of the Jedi did better than Empire. The exact same trend happened with the prequels: The second movie made less than the first, but the third made more than the second but still less than the first. In other words, the third movie saw an uptick. When Empire came out in 1980, it was not heralded as the best movie ever (like nowadays) but was very divisive. But ROTJ was a "return to form" and made more money. The same with the prequels: Attack of the Clones was heavily criticized and made much less that Phantom Menace, but Revenge of Sith was received more favorably and made more than AOTC, but still less than TPM.

    SO: my point is: if in the first two trilogies, the 3rd movie was better received (at the time) by the fans and made more money than the 2nd, why is this not happening with the sequel trilogy? Rise of Skywalker is received more favorably than TLJ, but is STILL making less money. If following the first two trilogies, since fans likes the 3rd movie better than the 2nd the 3rd should make more money than the 2nd (which DID happen TWICE), why is that not happening now?

    (AGAIN: in 1980 and 1983, fans liked Return of the Jedi more than Empire Strikes Back. They are viewed differently now)
    Because patterns are descriptive, not proscriptive.

  5. #430
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Tri-Solar System
    Posts
    6,062
    I stumbled across this video that does a really good job of explaining the shortcomings of making the EU / Legends non-canon.

    It's a good comparison video that doesn't devolve into film-bashing or getting into the whole politics of Star Wars culture.



    For what it's worth, I agree with this argument... the EU really developed a cohesive and believable post-RotJ universe that maintained continuity throughout the books, comics, and video games.
    We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!

    **Staunch FILMation lover!!! **** Uber NEW ADVENTURES Fan!!!**
    Waiting for more William Stout characters!!!

  6. #431
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Golden Age
    Posts
    5,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    I stumbled across this video that does a really good job of explaining the shortcomings of making the EU / Legends non-canon.

    It's a good comparison video that doesn't devolve into film-bashing or getting into the whole politics of Star Wars culture.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y48Y-X5zCpk

    For what it's worth, I agree with this argument... the EU really developed a cohesive and believable post-RotJ universe that maintained continuity throughout the books, comics, and video games.
    See the funny things about alot of people is that they don't care or didn't real get into anything besides the movies and they cannot make any valid points because they do not KNOW it! At one time it was ALL connected. But ALOT of people do not just a few people on message boards...

    You can't unring a bell..

  7. #432
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,880
    There is an episode of Legends of Tomorrow where the villains are trying to dispose of Lucas in some fashion. When they start meddling there are characters who are immediately changed that were either directly or indirectly influenced by Star Wars. Stepping back if Star Wars didn't come out like it did, when it did, etc culture and many things in society would be different today.

    One of the things it effected is fandoms, at the time many fandoms were nothing like fandoms are today. The closest probably would be Star Trek, and I think Star Wars even had it's influence there. If the EU of 'legends' had come out in a fan culture like we have today, Disney wouldn't have killed it off like they did because they really couldn't have it would have been something much more ingrained into the fandom as a whole instead of just the 'creepy basement dwellers.'

    Granted the internet comes into play with some of that.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  8. #433
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    3,685
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    There is an episode of Legends of Tomorrow where the villains are trying to dispose of Lucas in some fashion. When they start meddling there are characters who are immediately changed that were either directly or indirectly influenced by Star Wars. Stepping back if Star Wars didn't come out like it did, when it did, etc culture and many things in society would be different today.

    One of the things it effected is fandoms, at the time many fandoms were nothing like fandoms are today. The closest probably would be Star Trek, and I think Star Wars even had it's influence there. If the EU of 'legends' had come out in a fan culture like we have today, Disney wouldn't have killed it off like they did because they really couldn't have it would have been something much more ingrained into the fandom as a whole instead of just the 'creepy basement dwellers.'

    Granted the internet comes into play with some of that.
    I doubt that. You don't get more 'ingrained' into the charcters than the comic books for Marvel... and they have no problem at all disregarding history, characters, or concepts in order to sell a blockbuster movie. Heck, I've seen people get livid over the way Game of Thrones changed and muddled up things that were in the core novels... and that's been a post-internet obsession.

    I honestly think they ALWAYS would have disregarded the EU, no matter how popular it would be. They want the movies to be the movies... and all fans coming in to be on the same level. The same way Marvel doesn't expect you to have 80+ years of comic lore at your fingertips.... Disney would never expect people to have any knowledge of 100 novels stretching 30+ years to see where Luke, han and leia are today.

    The PERFECT goal would have been to keep the movies going back in the 90's. Then they could have gotten away with Thrawne or Dark Empire or SOMETHING that picked up with the characters in their prime/middle age.... but waiting all this time, there was never any chance of it.

  9. #434
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,880
    I meant they wouldn't have killed it off completely.

    they would have gone more like marvel did adapt the stories but use them as more a loose canon for movies which have to be more concise, and often things that work in books/comics/etc don't really work in a movie.

    There are many properties that had extra media created for them that at the time there was no conflict with the main canon, but later it would be discarded.

    I mean it's basically what Lucas did, he didn't kill off the EU, but said the movies take precedence and made movies that contradicted things that had happened in the alternative media.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  10. #435
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Golden Age
    Posts
    5,072
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    I meant they wouldn't have killed it off completely.

    they would have gone more like marvel did adapt the stories but use them as more a loose canon for movies which have to be more concise, and often things that work in books/comics/etc don't really work in a movie.

    There are many properties that had extra media created for them that at the time there was no conflict with the main canon, but later it would be discarded.

    I mean it's basically what Lucas did, he didn't kill off the EU, but said the movies take precedence and made movies that contradicted things that had happened in the alternative media.
    Yes but he accepted it and used things from it Disney pretty much said screw you and **** canned it all...

  11. #436
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Yes but he accepted it and used things from it Disney pretty much said screw you and **** canned it all...
    Who needs exciting new stories and characters when you can exploit the original trilogy cast and just make basic reboots of the original trilogy.

  12. #437
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Golden Age
    Posts
    5,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Who needs exciting new stories and characters when you can exploit the original trilogy cast and just make basic reboots of the original trilogy.
    QFT

  13. #438
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Tri-Solar System
    Posts
    6,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Who needs exciting new stories and characters when you can exploit the original trilogy cast and just make basic reboots of the original trilogy.
    I would go a step further and say that the original cast (and the characters that they portray) were disgraced and sloppily written out of the continuity to make way for a more "family friendly" and marketable set of characters, i.e. BB-8, Kylo Ren, and that awesomely awesome silver Storm Trooper!! Sweet!

    I think I get the most upset with the way they (Disney) flushed the original trilogy down the toilet...
    We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!

    **Staunch FILMation lover!!! **** Uber NEW ADVENTURES Fan!!!**
    Waiting for more William Stout characters!!!

  14. #439
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Golden Age
    Posts
    5,072

  15. #440
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,433
    This would be perfect if only it had Caravan of Courage and The Battle for Endoe included.
    Not being sarcastic, I do like those movies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    I would go a step further and say that the original cast (and the characters that they portray) were disgraced and sloppily written out of the continuity to make way for a more "family friendly" and marketable set of characters, i.e. BB-8, Kylo Ren, and that awesomely awesome silver Storm Trooper!! Sweet!

    I think I get the most upset with the way they (Disney) flushed the original trilogy down the toilet...
    Phasma was such a wasted character. Aside from having cool looking armour there was nothing else of interest about her. The only interesting thing about the character was that her chrome armour was made from Emperor Palpatine old ship...and that was only mentioned in some random novel or comic book, not the movies.

  16. #441
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Golden Age
    Posts
    5,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    This would be perfect if only it had Caravan of Courage and The Battle for Endoe included.
    Not being sarcastic, I do like those movies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Phasma was such a wasted character. Aside from having cool looking armour there was nothing else of interest about her. The only interesting thing about the character was that her chrome armour was made from Emperor Palpatine old ship...and that was only mentioned in some random novel or comic book, not the movies.
    At least those Ewok movies were created by George (And they were meant for kids) funny thing is that the Droids & Ewoks cartoons have never been fully released on DVD/Blu-Ray or on Disney +

  17. #442
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    3,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post

    Phasma was such a wasted character. Aside from having cool looking armour there was nothing else of interest about her.
    LOL

    Hey... it worked for Boba Fett! He was a sweet looking character... who stood around and did nothing, until he got suck death by a blind Han. Somehow still has a massive following.


    I'm curious what the difference is now days... Back then, Fett was considered awesome... now? Same deal, but Phasma is considered 'wasted' and lame. I mean... I feel it too. Just not sure if it's the age talking or what...

  18. #443
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Yes but he accepted it and used things from it Disney pretty much said screw you and **** canned it all...
    Which was mostly my point.I just focused more on the comparison on the Marvel side. I mean they turned Civil War into a good story, and that's with me not being happy with the way the flushed the tv stuff down the crapper and Brie Larson.

    I mean using the most recently mentioned Phasma issue. She's going to be the next Boba Fett or Darth Maul, yes both of those characters in the films had a somewhat comedic exit, but before that there was established they were in some way a threat. And honestly it didn't take much "No disrupters,' and killing off the best ranked on screen Jedi to the main story line at the time. Phasma was shown up by Tr8tor in two seconds.

    Yes with the age of the original cast it was going to be difficult to do anything from the novels. Of course they could have still done a continuation of that, establishing some things in the opening crawl, create a new threat and move on. Footnote if you want to read more about these guys, how many times have you seen a movie and someone just says they explain it a bit more in the novels, or the comics or whatever and you just think OK might pick it up, not that I didn't get what was going on but might be a fun read.

    I mean I just finished watching CAoSabrina, and half the characters or words are allusions to some mythology, folktail, whatever and knowing what it's in reference to is cool and all but it by no means is necessary to enjoy the show.

    Kathleen Kennedy, people won't know what is going on, and it's harder to write a new story when you don't have a recipe..... Why the heck are you doing something the hardest way possible in the first place and what is your real woke view of people if you think they won't get the story because there is a deeper version of the story out there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    LOL

    Hey... it worked for Boba Fett! He was a sweet looking character... who stood around and did nothing, until he got suck death by a blind Han. Somehow still has a massive following.


    I'm curious what the difference is now days... Back then, Fett was considered awesome... now? Same deal, but Phasma is considered 'wasted' and lame. I mean... I feel it too. Just not sure if it's the age talking or what...
    I mentioned it in my post just now, but one scene where Vader explicitly tells him "no disruptors.' Followed by Boba not falling for the way the millenium falcon crew hid themselves. With two scenes he's established as someone who is a threat.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  19. #444
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    3,685
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post

    I mentioned it in my post just now, but one scene where Vader explicitly tells him "no disruptors.' Followed by Boba not falling for the way the millenium falcon crew hid themselves. With two scenes he's established as someone who is a threat.
    Wasn't it "No disintegration?" I think knowing he liked to disintegrate made him a bit 'tougher'.

    Still, I think with any other character, that would have fallen into the 'Told not shown' trap. If they had comments and scenes like that with Phasma people would have still been critical. It's implied that he was this awesome and feared character... but whenever he was on screen to DO anything... he was at best a cool looking window dressing and at worst an absolute joke.

    I personally hated the clone aspect and Jango Fett in general... but man, at least he had a couple of awesome looking fights that showed off his awesomeness. He lost of course because y'know... 'bad guy', but at least he had a good showing. Though the idea of Fett's and Jetpacks has become a traditional joke for me and my friends

    If anyone told me that George Lucas HATED Boba Fett and just wanted to flip off the fans... I'd totally believe it. I've not heard that story, but... man... I'd totally believe it. He killed him off in the stupidest way possible. And then Jar Jar just gets to keep surviving.... Ughhh… Yay Lucas.... >.<


    As for Darth Maul, I don't even compare the two. Maul didn't have much air time and only had about 4-6 lines if I recall correctly, but what he did was just AMAZING. He stole the show every time he was on the screen and had still the most memorable fight scene in the franchise. So Maul died poorly, but he proved how cool he was

  20. #445
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,880
    Show vs tell, telling is fine when done right. I have read scenes where a door is describe and is only mentioned by name, the both worked in the different scenes. The first the person is in a dark room trying to find their way out, the second they are being chased. In both cases the door creates the same peace/hope type feelings.

    And you might be right disintegrations might have been what he said. But the line stated becomes a kind of show and tell, he's told what he isn't allowed to do and in the process we are shown something about his character.

    Note I am not the biggest Boba Fett fan, I do agree they could have done a bit more to show him off. But the helmeted head also kind of helps, Maul has to show more because he has bare face. Phasma is just the worst of the three, because I think there was no show or telling that implied anything of what she could do, in the first film, second film she starts to and than it doesn't pay off. Not sure about the third film still haven't seen it.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  21. #446
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Wasn't it "No disintegration?" I think knowing he liked to disintegrate made him a bit 'tougher'.

    Still, I think with any other character, that would have fallen into the 'Told not shown' trap. If they had comments and scenes like that with Phasma people would have still been critical. It's implied that he was this awesome and feared character... but whenever he was on screen to DO anything... he was at best a cool looking window dressing and at worst an absolute joke.

    I personally hated the clone aspect and Jango Fett in general... but man, at least he had a couple of awesome looking fights that showed off his awesomeness. He lost of course because y'know... 'bad guy', but at least he had a good showing. Though the idea of Fett's and Jetpacks has become a traditional joke for me and my friends

    If anyone told me that George Lucas HATED Boba Fett and just wanted to flip off the fans... I'd totally believe it. I've not heard that story, but... man... I'd totally believe it. He killed him off in the stupidest way possible. And then Jar Jar just gets to keep surviving.... Ughhh… Yay Lucas.... >.<


    As for Darth Maul, I don't even compare the two. Maul didn't have much air time and only had about 4-6 lines if I recall correctly, but what he did was just AMAZING. He stole the show every time he was on the screen and had still the most memorable fight scene in the franchise. So Maul died poorly, but he proved how cool he was
    Yeah it's no disintergrations. Love how that implies how he's prone to shot first/ask questions later. It's also illustrated later in the movie when he goes to fire at Chewie and Vader stops him. Also love how Fett no sells hearing Luke and R2 in the hallway only to start firing at him when Luke thinks he turned the corner.

    As far as Phasma, they just needed to either show that she's formidable or not a good person but the films couldn't even do that. It's the little things like her having her give the order to shoot the villagers on Jakku instead of relaying from Kylo. Or her putting up some kind of fight with Han and Finn BEFORE getting sucker punched by Chewie. Instead of any of that, she just reprimands Finn for taking off his helmet, the sort of pettiness that an office supervisor would do.

  22. #447
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    LOL

    Hey... it worked for Boba Fett! He was a sweet looking character... who stood around and did nothing, until he got suck death by a blind Han. Somehow still has a massive following.


    I'm curious what the difference is now days... Back then, Fett was considered awesome... now? Same deal, but Phasma is considered 'wasted' and lame. I mean... I feel it too. Just not sure if it's the age talking or what...
    I think the problem is a combination of the actress they cast to play Phasma and the amount of merchandise and marketing that featured the character. People really expected a lot more from the character.
    For all the role was...there wasn't much need to cast a prominent actress. Maybe several lines at the most in two films.
    At least with Boba Fett he did appear in the Holiday Special and was pretty cool in TESB and ROTJ.
    Phasma doesn't even really have a coolness factor. she didn't do anything cool in the movies.
    Last edited by Mark M; February 10, 2020 at 12:06pm.

  23. #448
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    343
    Why did grandpops Palpatine not switch off his force lighting when his face started melting off ?

    All he needed to do to win that fight was Force Grip Rey,s cute little neck or toss her in the pit like he did with Kylo or how about doing nothing and telling all those hundreds of cultists in the chamber to ....I dunno maybe attack her ?

  24. #449
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Tri-Solar System
    Posts
    6,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Why did grandpops Palpatine not switch off his force lighting when his face started melting off ?

    All he needed to do to win that fight was Force Grip Rey,s cute little neck or toss her in the pit like he did with Kylo or how about doing nothing and telling all those hundreds of cultists in the chamber to ....I dunno maybe attack her ?
    Stop.... too... much.. logic... .. ....

    We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!

    **Staunch FILMation lover!!! **** Uber NEW ADVENTURES Fan!!!**
    Waiting for more William Stout characters!!!

  25. #450
    Heroic Warrior MJOLNIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Why did grandpops Palpatine not switch off his force lighting when his face started melting off ?

    All he needed to do to win that fight was Force Grip Rey,s cute little neck or toss her in the pit like he did with Kylo or how about doing nothing and telling all those hundreds of cultists in the chamber to ....I dunno maybe attack her ?
    Lol, and didn’t pops WANT her to kill him? Soooooo why didn’t his plan come to fruition?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •