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Thread: The Star Wars Saga: Episodes I-IX General Discussion Thread

  1. #26
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post
    Star Wars’ biggest problem overall is that it is played out. There is no newness and very little opportunity for creativity and originality on the big screen.

    That was the problem with the prequels, and it’s the problem with the Disney sequels.

    Most people don’t seem aware that the main reason we loved the original trilogy was the revolutionary depiction of scifi on screen. Prior to 1977, nobody had ever made a scifi movie with ALL of the following: a charming story, interesting characters, and visual effects powered by the budget of a big Hollywood studio. The lack of familiarity with the genre was key to their success.

    That newness had worn off big time by the time Phantom Menace was made, and Lucas’ revolution had fully swept the industry. Star Wars had been the measuring stick against which every scifi-action movie was measured.

    The franchise is a victim of its own success and it’s time to let it die. Every installment after Return of the Jedi has accomplished nothing except making the copyright owners filthy rich. They’re getting rich with our money because we are legitimately addicted.

    But the warm fuzzy memories we have of the originals will never be reproduced. Only exploited, if you allow them to be.
    I, personally, disagree wholeheartedly with this assessment. I loved Star Wars because of the original trilogy, but it was something truly special to me because of it's (original) expanded universe. The original trilogy was a good, fun story, but it also laid the ground work for an entire universe of stories, past and future. Experiencing the ever expanding lore was a big part of the appeal to Star Wars for me, and even 30 years after Star Wars debuted, new and interesting stories were being told.

    Honestly, I don't think the concept of the prequels are that bad; I just think it was a big mistake making that story into three movies rather than two (or maybe even one). This is the same problem the Hobbit movies had: a direct and concise story is bogged down with all this added excess that's completely unnecessary and distracting. Revenge of the Sith is actually one of my favorite Star Wars movies, but I think it could have just as easily been served with a concise, one movie build up.

    The new movies/Disney buyout is a whole different story. They're not terrible because the newness has worn off, they're terrible because they're terrible. They also provide the extra insult to injury of having effectively wiped out a plethora of great lore in order to cash in on their garbage movies. It's akin to blowing all the faces off Mt. Rushmore and replacing them with Scrappy-doo.

  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    I, personally, disagree wholeheartedly with this assessment. I loved Star Wars because of the original trilogy, but it was something truly special to me because of it's (original) expanded universe. The original trilogy was a good, fun story, but it also laid the ground work for an entire universe of stories, past and future. Experiencing the ever expanding lore was a big part of the appeal to Star Wars for me, and even 30 years after Star Wars debuted, new and interesting stories were being told.

    Honestly, I don't think the concept of the prequels are that bad; I just think it was a big mistake making that story into three movies rather than two (or maybe even one). This is the same problem the Hobbit movies had: a direct and concise story is bogged down with all this added excess that's completely unnecessary and distracting. Revenge of the Sith is actually one of my favorite Star Wars movies, but I think it could have just as easily been served with a concise, one movie build up.

    The new movies/Disney buyout is a whole different story. They're not terrible because the newness has worn off, they're terrible because they're terrible. They also provide the extra insult to injury of having effectively wiped out a plethora of great lore in order to cash in on their garbage movies. It's akin to blowing all the faces off Mt. Rushmore and replacing them with Scrappy-doo.
    This 100%...except the part about Scrappy Doo I liked Scrappy. I didn't like all of the EU stories but over all it was great, yet Disney erased it for complete rubbish.

  3. #28
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    I think the biggest problem with Star Wars is that isn't building on what they had. They had an awesome universe with an awesome cast and an awesome story...

    Then instead of giving us the next chapter in awesomeness... they went backwards and negated it all. I found the prequels to have diminishing joy for me. I LOVED the Phantom Menace with a passion... mostly due to the last lightsaber fight. We FINALLY got to see fully trained 'in their prime' Jedi being jedi. Everything the comics and roleplaying game had hinted at... we got to see on screen. it was glorious. Jar Jar meant nothing to me. He was annoying but not anymore than C3PO or Ewoks. All of star wars has had stupid annoying kid friendly characters that I wanted to punch... I saw it about 11 times in the theater that summer. Yeah... it had slow parts and the pod race eventually became bathroom break and refill time... but the first time it was pretty exciting.

    What bothered me most was the retconning. Anakin being a child instead of a fighter pilot when he met Obi wan... The midichlorian garbage...


    Attack of the clones bugged me because of the stupid and poorly acted love story. The idea that Jedi were 'forbidden from love and emotionless' was garbage. The Jango Fett mystery with Obi-wan was pretty cool.. but everything about Anakin's 'fall' was weak. I watched it a couple of times, each time hating it more.

    Revenge of the Sith… I think I liked but I only bothered to see it once. The idea that the fall of the Jedi was being shot in the back by soldiers while Super mega-evil Vader massacred a nursery was the final straw. That and erasing the idea that Leia remembered her mother



    The original Trilogy is the CORE of Star Wars. Whatever the characters said... whatever they hinted at... that had to be the core of the prequels. The Clone War concept was flawed in that I already KNEW how it would end. Yoda and Ben run and hide, stealing the kids. Everyone else dies. Watching 3 movies and a bunch of series about that road was annoying...

    Everything we knew about the Force was from Ben and Yoda. Anything written in either the prequels or the sequels can not and SHOULD not contradict them. Light Side, Dark Side, created from all living things and guides you but doesn't control you. Anger and hate are paths to the dark... anything that twists, reinvents, or changes that foundation... is wrong.


    That is what killed my love of Star Wars. This philosophy that the OT was flawed, Luke wasn't the 'main character,' Vader was... and everything needed to be updated for a 'modern audience'.

    Honestly after the prequels I was DONE. I wasn't even interested in VII, VIII, and IX. Disney taking it over after they brought back the muppets...and the way they managed Marvel movies... It SAVED Star Wars for me. They are about the only company that could have brought me back. And really most of the movies since have been disappointing. More ways to say 'everything you ever knew was wrong...'

    Except Solo. The one movie I had ZERO interest in hearing... was GREAT. They answered the questions we had... they didn't outright contradict anything they shouldn't have... I went in with a list of about 5 or 6 things I thought they would screw around with just to 'modernize' it... and they didn't. They dodged the easy pitfalls and showed me the past I wanted to see... and I walked out quite satisfied with that one.

    It's really the only one since Phantom Menace I can say that about.

  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Except Solo. The one movie I had ZERO interest in hearing... was GREAT. They answered the questions we had... they didn't outright contradict anything they shouldn't have... I went in with a list of about 5 or 6 things I thought they would screw around with just to 'modernize' it... and they didn't. They dodged the easy pitfalls and showed me the past I wanted to see... and I walked out quite satisfied with that one.

    It's really the only one since Phantom Menace I can say that about.
    Solo did contradict the Millennium Falcon. It was a customized cargo ship. The space at the front is for moving cargo in space. But in Solo it had an escape pod.
    Not to mention the MF shows up extremely briefly in ROTS as it looks in the OT...but yet Solo now contradicts that as it looked different between ROTS and ANH.
    Of the Disney movies I prefer Solo and Rogue One compared to the ST films.

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    The new movies/Disney buyout is a whole different story. They're not terrible because the newness has worn off, they're terrible because they're terrible. They also provide the extra insult to injury of having effectively wiped out a plethora of great lore in order to cash in on their garbage movies. It's akin to blowing all the faces off Mt. Rushmore and replacing them with Scrappy-doo.
    Love this!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I think the biggest problem with Star Wars is that isn't building on what they had. They had an awesome universe with an awesome cast and an awesome story...

    Then instead of giving us the next chapter in awesomeness... they went backwards and negated it all.
    That is kind of the shtick of some of these folks though. Make no one special, so everyone is special. Throw in themes to pander to a small percentage of the population who is 'woke.' Destroy the past. We see it in cinema and we see it happening on the streets.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

    You laugh at me because I question everything. I laugh at you because you question nothing.

  6. #31
    Not my Tempo Fendi's Avatar
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    I think I'm the only person who love the original trilogy over Nostalgic purposes. I did binge watching Original Trilogy during my senior year on the mid term holiday. Going to be 14 days on my favorite Binge watching for 14 years. I don't know, the surrounding elements during that era including Revenge of the Sith gave out good memories. From preparing family gathering on the weekend with the forum dramas and LULZ during the school break gave me a butterfly in my stomach of good time.

    NOT QUITE MY TEMPO

  7. #32
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Solo did contradict the Millennium Falcon. It was a customized cargo ship. The space at the front is for moving cargo in space. But in Solo it had an escape pod.
    Not to mention the MF shows up extremely briefly in ROTS as it looks in the OT...but yet Solo now contradicts that as it looked different between ROTS and ANH.
    Of the Disney movies I prefer Solo and Rogue One compared to the ST films.
    Those were all Lando's mods, though, so Solo actually didn't negate anything. He just fancied up a rather utilitarian freighter to be more of a pleasure yacht, which Han handily turned into the "garbage" we all love.
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  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior diosoth's Avatar
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    Everyone screams over Disney purging the EU, but Lucas did that all the time! He only allowed the EU because he made money from it- it was fanfiction with a license to be published. He was otherwise free to acknowledge or disavow as much of it as he wished. Pre-ATOC EU & fandom on Boba Fett was all over the place, from him having along-standing grudge with Han, to being a woman & Han's former lover, etc. AOTC spat all over everything. The prequels probably stomped on a lot of existing EU at the time, when you think about it. Not only did Lucas himself disavow Tartakovsky Clone Wars in favor of his own CGI series but it blatantly disregarded any number of EU works with new takes on certain aspects of the lore- an act which left more than a few authors upset. Even his own work wasn't immune- Shadows Of The Empire was a HUGE multimedia event, based on an idea Lucas himself had for a movie in between ESB and ROTJ, yet that also got largely purged from canon in the mid 2000s with only a few small elements of it being retained.

    The EU didn't even bother to maintain too much canon with ITSELF considering the numerous writers who all had their own ideas and probably couldn't read every existing piece of work to make sure their material fell into that massive canon. EU also seems to be held in regard by SW fans despite the always dubious levels of canon it ever was, when Star Trek EU was always regarded as non-canon from the start(the only single book even remotely treated as possible canon by fans is Andrew Robinson's Garak novel), and certainly ignored left & right by official media, but SW needed plot holes filled in and the story continued and the EU was extensively it, even if it was possibly not canon.

    Nor can I blame Disney for wanting to unload a lot of baggage and excess plot that only the die-hard fans knew yet the typical person who watched the movies knew nothing about. They probably assumed it would be easier to dump it all and rebuild slowly, working in some of the old material if they could but otherwise not being bound to an aspect that only a segment of the franchise fans were familiar with. It's also highly possible some of the EU falls under old contracts that are no longer in place(which has certainly effected the presence of Lego Star Wars in various WB-produced Lego media), or were from entities that Disney may be in competition with, and Disney didn't want to renegotiate. Lucas had to talk Disney into buying SW in the first place, and if he cared so much he never would have sold. He was done, he wanted someone else to deal with the fanboys and the movies. I think the sheer awful factor of something like Kinect Star Wars showed how burned out he was(yes, that came out well before Disney bought SW).

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Solo did contradict the Millennium Falcon. It was a customized cargo ship. The space at the front is for moving cargo in space. But in Solo it had an escape pod.
    I'm with Uki on this. There was nothing to indicate what modifications the Falcon had between coming off the factory floor and when Lando modified it. As you say, The YT-1300s were very popular because they were customizable. I saw more than a few images of YTs that actually had the cockpit located there instead of off to the side.

    I think it looks kind of stupid with the 'escape pod', but I don't consider it any kind of blatantly annoying core change to the franchise. Except that it also means that Han is comfortable flying a ship on crazy missions having never bothered to replace the escape pod... Which, now that I type that is actually pretty cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Not to mention the MF shows up extremely briefly in ROTS as it looks in the OT...but yet Solo now contradicts that as it looked different between ROTS and ANH.
    Of the Disney movies I prefer Solo and Rogue One compared to the ST films.
    Yeah... I've heard that a few times too... but I ignore it. 1) That was an easter egg that I frankly have NEVER been able to pause and actually SEE... It's like R2-D2 in Abrams Star Trek show... It wasn't a plot point, just an easter egg. and 2) There was nothing to indicate it was the Falcon... it could be any of THOUSANDS of YT-1300 freighters in the universe.

    Which is actually something that bothers me about the newest movies too... WAY too much 'new invention'. SOOOOO many new aliens and ships and robots all over the place... when in a universe that was as VAST as the OT and even the prequels, comics, rpgs and whatever... Where are the Devoronians? or the Ithorians? or the Mon Calamari? Little things like that can REALLY tie a movie in to its predecessors without even giving them a line... but I can't help but get the feeling that the desire of these people to make new toys or make their mark really hurts the franchise. It's a lot like star wars without any Klingons or Vulcans... it just doesn't... feel right.

  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior diosoth's Avatar
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    Star Trek suffered many of these same issues- Roddenberry was highly opposed to any TOS references in TNG and even with all the other staff overruling him(yes in fact he wanted his sequel to never reference the original AT ALL), it was still years before we saw an Andorian(that.... thing in the holodeck doesn't count), Tellarite, etc. Tholians were only mentioned in DS9. And yet the Cardassians, in their first episode, are introduced as having been at war with the Federation for YEARS with no one mentioning it prior, in the 5th season! Enterprise suffered the same as the prequels did, for the same reasons- trying too hard to explain the before stuff, tied too much to the after stuff, and sometimes making no sense in how things happened solely so A can go to B because B was written before A- an as such A introduces elements that SHOULD be in B but are absent(it took one of the Trek video games made later on to include Denobulans on the Enterprise E).

    Disney was going to catch flak no matter what. If Lucas had still been in charge he'd have caught flak- really the only difference between 1999 and now is the lack of politics injected into everything and non-fans with an agenda latching on(which is far from limited to just SW) but fans back then were highly divided



    And the leaked details of the Lucas prequel ideas were... iffy. He was going deeper into the midichlorians and some force that controlled them and...

    When SW came out there was little like it- Star Trek and Doctor Who had paved the way but sci-fi to then was still a low-budget thing that no one took seriously. Lucas had the money and the cat to do something greater and even then most people assumed it would fail miserably. Most of the cast were wary and the studio was wary which is why even this didn't have a larger budget. But it had larger settings and actual aliens that weren't just some guy in a few rubber pieces- ST had the Gorn which had no moving mouth and that was the most advanced it got. Dr Who had rolling garbage cans and men in suits. Other sci-fi just had humans as aliens.

    But by the time of the prequels, they couldn't do "new" anymore, Lucas had to play it safe to keep fans happy. He had to keep the status quo and image and even that wasn't good enough. His edits, for as many good choices he made, were also riddled with questionable stuff-

    This is what a fan recently did



    This is what George Lucas felt was so important



    And Disney was hoping to buy a cash cow and are trying desperately to make money off it when it was probably too wrung out for its own good by then. The movies are divisive but still somehow no worse than the PT and I don't think they could have won regardless. Merchandise sales are down, which I blame more on a glut of toys for 24 years and too many characters being made over and over, there's no incentive to buy the new Darth Vader toy, or even new retail pieces when eBay is cheaper. ST toys don't sell? OT and PT also linger. ST focused more on a story than toy designs and it shows but nearly all the old stuff has been made excessively, and shoppers are more wary of buying things on sale so they wait- a fact that, in hindsight, is probably killing a lot of toy lines, because why pay full price when you can wait 6 months and get it half off?

  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Han's Falcon did have escape pods. They are shown in various diagrams and blueprints of the ship.https://imgur.com/gallery/3n6Qf

    The scene in ROTS that shows the Flacon is just after Grievous' ships crashes on Courscant if I remember correctly.
    Speaking of ROTS, with Rise Of The Skywalker, it will complicate things when people shorten the name down to ROTS. Disney even messed up the name lol.


    It makes little sense though that Han would change the Falcon and undo all Lando's modifications. Technically that was the ship that made the Kessel Run. With all Han's alterations technically it wouldn't be the same as when it made the Kessel Run. Maybe Han's modifications made it better than what Lando did to it.

  12. #37
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Before I really get into this, I just want to say that I've always found it odd when people go into this delegitimization campaign regarding the original EU. If you don't like it, just say you don't like it. You don't have to try to will it into nonexistence.

    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    Everyone screams over Disney purging the EU, but Lucas did that all the time!
    "All the time"? George Lucas didn't even create enough overwriting content after the EU became a thing to suggest he was doing it "all the time".

    It's also not accurate to equate what Disney did to anything Lucas ever did regarding "purging" of EU canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    He only allowed the EU because he made money from it- it was fanfiction with a license to be published.
    This is an absolutely bizarre statement to me. Of course "he only allowed the EU because he made money from it." As opposed to what alternative? Obviously he wouldn't allow it to exist and not make money from it. He also could have chosen to not make that money and keep the Star Wars universe pristine and completely to himself...but he didn't. He also could have said that EU works were non-canon....but he didn't do that either.

    And are you suggesting that all licensed work is fanfiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    He was otherwise free to acknowledge or disavow as much of it as he wished. Pre-ATOC EU & fandom on Boba Fett was all over the place, from him having along-standing grudge with Han, to being a woman & Han's former lover, etc. AOTC spat all over everything. The prequels probably stomped on a lot of existing EU at the time, when you think about it. Not only did Lucas himself disavow Tartakovsky Clone Wars in favor of his own CGI series but it blatantly disregarded any number of EU works with new takes on certain aspects of the lore- an act which left more than a few authors upset. Even his own work wasn't immune- Shadows Of The Empire was a HUGE multimedia event, based on an idea Lucas himself had for a movie in between ESB and ROTJ, yet that also got largely purged from canon in the mid 2000s with only a few small elements of it being retained.

    The EU didn't even bother to maintain too much canon with ITSELF considering the numerous writers who all had their own ideas and probably couldn't read every existing piece of work to make sure their material fell into that massive canon. EU also seems to be held in regard by SW fans despite the always dubious levels of canon it ever was, when Star Trek EU was always regarded as non-canon from the start(the only single book even remotely treated as possible canon by fans is Andrew Robinson's Garak novel), and certainly ignored left & right by official media, but SW needed plot holes filled in and the story continued and the EU was extensively it, even if it was possibly not canon.
    Any narrative body of work that has produced this much content over this many years will have inconsistencies. This happens in mythologies, comic books, soap operas, etc. It's just the nature of the beast, and Star Wars was no worse in this regard than others. If anything quite the opposite, which leads into the next point...

    To suggest that "the EU didn't even bother to maintain too much canon with ITSELF" is a gross mischaracterization of reality. You make it sound like this was some hamfisted, fly-by-night operation that just rubber stamped anything into existence without any consideration whatsoever. That's nonsense. There was extensive effort put into managing continuity. Quite frankly, I would say they did a much better job with managing continuity than other analogous entities. Just because Lucas reserved the right to disavow specific parts of continuity doesn't mean he didn't care about it at all or somehow thought it was meaningless. It's quite possible that he didn't care about a single story that had been created outside of his own, but I think he cared enough about his brand that he wanted it to be reasonably coherent and consistent. If it didn't matter, there wouldn't have been so many resources devoted to coordinating and maintaining the EU.

    Also, if the owner company acknowledges something as canon (at any level), it seems odd to me to call that "dubious".
    Last edited by Sword2Blanket; May 16, 2019 at 11:43am.

  13. #38
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    Star Trek suffered many of these same issues- Roddenberry was highly opposed to any TOS references in TNG and even with all the other staff overruling him(yes in fact he wanted his sequel to never reference the original AT ALL), it was still years before we saw an Andorian(that.... thing in the holodeck doesn't count), Tellarite, etc. Tholians were only mentioned in DS9. And yet the Cardassians, in their first episode, are introduced as having been at war with the Federation for YEARS with no one mentioning it prior, in the 5th season! Enterprise suffered the same as the prequels did, for the same reasons- trying too hard to explain the before stuff, tied too much to the after stuff, and sometimes making no sense in how things happened solely so A can go to B because B was written before A- an as such A introduces elements that SHOULD be in B but are absent(it took one of the Trek video games made later on to include Denobulans on the Enterprise E).

    Disney was going to catch flak no matter what. If Lucas had still been in charge he'd have caught flak- really the only difference between 1999 and now is the lack of politics injected into everything and non-fans with an agenda latching on(which is far from limited to just SW) but fans back then were highly divided

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onGF58ee0vI

    And the leaked details of the Lucas prequel ideas were... iffy. He was going deeper into the midichlorians and some force that controlled them and...

    When SW came out there was little like it- Star Trek and Doctor Who had paved the way but sci-fi to then was still a low-budget thing that no one took seriously. Lucas had the money and the cat to do something greater and even then most people assumed it would fail miserably. Most of the cast were wary and the studio was wary which is why even this didn't have a larger budget. But it had larger settings and actual aliens that weren't just some guy in a few rubber pieces- ST had the Gorn which had no moving mouth and that was the most advanced it got. Dr Who had rolling garbage cans and men in suits. Other sci-fi just had humans as aliens.

    But by the time of the prequels, they couldn't do "new" anymore, Lucas had to play it safe to keep fans happy. He had to keep the status quo and image and even that wasn't good enough. His edits, for as many good choices he made, were also riddled with questionable stuff-

    This is what a fan recently did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k

    This is what George Lucas felt was so important

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiDRgDmXGi4

    And Disney was hoping to buy a cash cow and are trying desperately to make money off it when it was probably too wrung out for its own good by then. The movies are divisive but still somehow no worse than the PT and I don't think they could have won regardless. Merchandise sales are down, which I blame more on a glut of toys for 24 years and too many characters being made over and over, there's no incentive to buy the new Darth Vader toy, or even new retail pieces when eBay is cheaper. ST toys don't sell? OT and PT also linger. ST focused more on a story than toy designs and it shows but nearly all the old stuff has been made excessively, and shoppers are more wary of buying things on sale so they wait- a fact that, in hindsight, is probably killing a lot of toy lines, because why pay full price when you can wait 6 months and get it half off?
    Lucas used alot of things from the Expanded Universe into his movies etc. it's idiots like Disney (Kathleen Kennedy) that pretty much said that No it doesn't exist and it didn't happen but we OWN those characters,stories etc. and will not use them.

    I could bring up a ton of nods or things that Disney stole or re-did from the EU to fit into their world and sorry Rogue was was ok but it was Kyle Katarn that stole the Death Star plans way back in 1996 you can't un-ring a bell that was canon and Rogue One was is the alternate universe NOT this version...

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior diosoth's Avatar
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    I'm not going to trash Disney wholesale like some do. I'm not a fan of ramblers like TheQuarterbrained or that alt-rightist that sued Mark Waid. Lucas cared so little he wanted to sell the franchise off. he freely ignored EU but somehow it's okay when he did it. Disney owns it now. They will do as they see fit. Art does not "belong to the world", it belongs to the creator/IP owner. You don't have to like it but they don't have to listen to you. They may listen if they think it will make money but they're not 100% obligated. I have every but of Star Trek media since those time travel reboot films and Discovery is garbage but Paramount's not going to retcon those out because I dislike them. Doom 4 is an abomination of a bad video game that spits on the Doom legacy with the devs actively pandering to bigots, but they're not going to magically wipe those out because I say so. I choose to ignore nearly everything Marvel has done since 1998 because Bendis is a hack, Quesada had nothing but bad ideas, Civil War was a terrible plot, etc, but it's not going away. Know what I do with a franchise I dislike so much? I ignore it. I don't give it money. I don't complain online 24/7 claiming to be a "true fan" and demanding change because I know it won't happen. Major companies don't care what the people think or want, they never have and they never will.

    Lucas was not some legendary saint. Even in 77 the actors said his dialog was awful and it's known that others had to edit the final cut of SW to make it watchable because his version had issues. What he did to David Prowse was absolutely horrible and he's never apologized, not for the voice recast that Prowse wasn't aware of until the premiere nor finding a petty excuse to fire him and replace him for the unmasking scenes. He cheated Kenner big time on the toy license just to fine them big bucks in the final days. He surrounded himself with yes-men, made change after change from the SE to the Blu-Ray discs and laughed at every fan complaint, and as long as the prequels made cash he ignored all the haters. and in the end he could because it was his property. He didn't have to listen. He didn't have to play nice. And if he were still doing these movies you'd still be complaining, only with a different set of complaints, and he'd still be laughing at you for it. In an alternate timeline little would be different.

    Every day I get online and see how the world behaves over every little thing and how nasty people are, the less I care. I'm done arguing. Call me an SJW if you want, that "insult" means little when thinking Chris Hansen is a legit journalist gets you called one now. Why yes I have been called an SJW for disliking pedo garbage, how quaint. My health insurance lapses at the end of the month and the world is so nasty I'm refusing to renew it. I don't care anymore. It's not worth caring.

  15. #40
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    I'm not going to trash Disney wholesale like some do. I'm not a fan of ramblers like TheQuarterbrained or that alt-rightist that sued Mark Waid. Lucas cared so little he wanted to sell the franchise off. he freely ignored EU but somehow it's okay when he did it. Disney owns it now. They will do as they see fit. Art does not "belong to the world", it belongs to the creator/IP owner. You don't have to like it but they don't have to listen to you. They may listen if they think it will make money but they're not 100% obligated. I have every but of Star Trek media since those time travel reboot films and Discovery is garbage but Paramount's not going to retcon those out because I dislike them. Doom 4 is an abomination of a bad video game that spits on the Doom legacy with the devs actively pandering to bigots, but they're not going to magically wipe those out because I say so. I choose to ignore nearly everything Marvel has done since 1998 because Bendis is a hack, Quesada had nothing but bad ideas, Civil War was a terrible plot, etc, but it's not going away. Know what I do with a franchise I dislike so much? I ignore it. I don't give it money. I don't complain online 24/7 claiming to be a "true fan" and demanding change because I know it won't happen. Major companies don't care what the people think or want, they never have and they never will.

    Lucas was not some legendary saint. Even in 77 the actors said his dialog was awful and it's known that others had to edit the final cut of SW to make it watchable because his version had issues. What he did to David Prowse was absolutely horrible and he's never apologized, not for the voice recast that Prowse wasn't aware of until the premiere nor finding a petty excuse to fire him and replace him for the unmasking scenes. He cheated Kenner big time on the toy license just to fine them big bucks in the final days. He surrounded himself with yes-men, made change after change from the SE to the Blu-Ray discs and laughed at every fan complaint, and as long as the prequels made cash he ignored all the haters. and in the end he could because it was his property. He didn't have to listen. He didn't have to play nice. And if he were still doing these movies you'd still be complaining, only with a different set of complaints, and he'd still be laughing at you for it. In an alternate timeline little would be different.

    Every day I get online and see how the world behaves over every little thing and how nasty people are, the less I care. I'm done arguing. Call me an SJW if you want, that "insult" means little when thinking Chris Hansen is a legit journalist gets you called one now. Why yes I have been called an SJW for disliking pedo garbage, how quaint. My health insurance lapses at the end of the month and the world is so nasty I'm refusing to renew it. I don't care anymore. It's not worth caring.
    I don't know about your other interactions on the internet, but I think it's pretty safe to say that no one's intention in this thread is to be nasty to you or anyone else. This is just a casual, nerd discussion and occasional disagreement about Star Wars. I think we're pretty much all on the same page about how trivial and unimportant that is. If I disagree with you (or anyone else) don't take anything I say personally, and certainly don't take it to be mean-spirited. And people calling everyone under the sun SJWs is one of the most obnoxious things on the internet in my opinion, so you'll never have to worry about that from me.

    I actually agree with a lot of the sentiment in your first paragraph. I feel almost exactly like you do in regards to Marvel comics. It started going off the rails for me around the turn of the century, and after One More Day I just gave up completely. Every once in a while I read an article or a wiki to see if things sound any better, but it usually just sounds worse than I remember it. For pretty much a decade, I only buy a Marvel comic if I'm buying an exclusive variant cover because I like the art. So too it is with Star Wars. The 5+ years leading up to the buy out was pretty much my Marvel-turn-of-the-century and the buy out/new movies were my One More Day. If I express my dislike for the current status quo for Marvel or Star Wars, it's just that: me giving my opinion. I hold no illusions that either will change, and I'm definitely not going to take part in some crusade to push them to do so. On a side note: I think in both cases my thoughts on the current states of the two brands have caused me to have an even greater appreciate for the good stories that came before. So at least there's that.

    When I was young, I guess I held Lucas in pretty high regard, but I wouldn't say I have particularly strong feelings about him one way or the other now. As I alluded to earlier, his greatest achievement for me was creating a cool universe that others got to play in.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    I won't lie, I preferred Star Wars under Lucas' control. But he made plenty of mistakes with it as well. I think it would take too long to type all the things wrong with the prequels. I read an article saying by the time of the prequels, Lucas was not the same film maker he was and had basically surrounded himself with yes men that did not disagree with any of his ideas. Unlike when he made the original trilogy and had script writers and directors help make the films successful.

    My love for Star Wars is basically the OT movies, and the Ewok movies, the Ewoks and Droids cartoon, Clone Wars and the EU novels and comics. I used to have a lot of Star Wars toys/action figures but over the years I have sold off over 99% of them. All I currently own is my original Bespin Han Solo. I am kind of interested in starting to collect the Black Series 6" figures again lol.

  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Wait, when did Lucas kill off the majority of the main players? Cause Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and others were still around for Disney to bop them off in a spectacularly lazy fashion.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Wait, when did Lucas kill off the majority of the main players? Cause Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and others were still around for Disney to bop them off in a spectacularly lazy fashion.
    Disney's handling of the OT characters was terrible. Even more inexcusable when you look at the characters they did create which were just awful.
    As much as I am not a fan of all Lucas' decision he had more originality than Disney with their basic remakes.
    Having said that though one of his ideas for the sequel trilogy sounded incredibly bad...orinal but bad. Basically Luke and co would be shrunk to midiclorian size and meet the Whills. Minute people who control the force. I think and hope that was just him doing damage control for Disney to take the bad look off TLJ.

  19. #44
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    I love how people keep going back to Lucas as being the "Bad Guy" Why? yes he did some dumb things but was it or was it not his to create? If he didn't do this we wouldn't have had ANYTHING!! and for once stop it people with this constant love "only" for the OT stop already we get it it is the best of the 3 trilogies we get it.People tend to not notice things that other's do and won't admit the truth for what it is.You can say Blah Blah about Lucas "hating" the EU but his people approved it and MOST of it was part of the SW Universe that is a FACT! When Disney bought it they decided to throw that all away and do what they wanted which is by rights you bought it it's your's now do what you want with it.But they screwed that up and pretty much copied the OT ALOT!

    In my case with the PT I posted something that made sense but got ignored because it made sense...

    PT = Your Father's Life
    OT = Your life
    ST = Kid's life

    Technology would be different as well as TONS of other things but people wanted a copy of the OT almost word for word why is that? It's a different time with different problems etc. When the ST copied the OT it ****** alot of people off...go figure damned if you do damned if you don't.....

    And I don't need a spreadsheet of useless data to back up someone's case EU was part of the original Star Wars you can't undo that...The PT is part of the SW Universe deal with it...and the ST is well and we all have to deal with it...

  20. #45
    Cheap Repaint FAKER II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diosoth View Post
    This is what a fan recently did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k

    This is what George Lucas felt was so important

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiDRgDmXGi4
    I'm so glad that the Despecialized Editions exist. I was starting to forget that musical number in the Special edition of ROTJ even existed.

    Another example of a fan doing it better is the Revisited version of the Emperor scene in Empire Strikes Back compared to Lucasfilm's remake of the same scene.


    I love that Revisited version of that Emperor scene. As much as I love the originals as they originally were, and even though I consider Harmy's Despecialized versions my definitive versions of the films, I would love for an edit that took the Despecialized version of ESB and just inserted that one small Emperor scene from Adywan's Revisted version.
    Last edited by FAKER II; May 18, 2019 at 12:01am.
    "There's only one Master of the Universe and it's He-Man." - Stephen Colbert

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    I love how people keep going back to Lucas as being the "Bad Guy" Why? yes he did some dumb things but was it or was it not his to create? If he didn't do this we wouldn't have had ANYTHING!! and for once stop it people with this constant love "only" for the OT stop already we get it it is the best of the 3 trilogies we get it.People tend to not notice things that other's do and won't admit the truth for what it is.You can say Blah Blah about Lucas "hating" the EU but his people approved it and MOST of it was part of the SW Universe that is a FACT! When Disney bought it they decided to throw that all away and do what they wanted which is by rights you bought it it's your's now do what you want with it.But they screwed that up and pretty much copied the OT ALOT!

    In my case with the PT I posted something that made sense but got ignored because it made sense...

    PT = Your Father's Life
    OT = Your life
    ST = Kid's life

    I'll admit, I don't understand what you're going for with that analogy. Mostly because the way they were released was OT, PT, ST... Many of the complaints about PT was that it didn't fit in with how the timeline played out and stuff... so the whole 'father's life' thing just isn't working for me.


    As for the EU... It had to die. Disney was right to do that. Even Lucas would have done it had he done his version of 7, 8, and 9. There was simply TOO much stuff and TOO much time had passed. Hamill and Ford simply could NOT film a proper Thawne trilogy at their age and you simply can not expect new audiences to go out and read 30+ novels to get them up to the present day... It's not realistic.

    For Disney to buy a property like this... they HAD to be able to have open license to film their own movies (I wish they had filmed BETTER movies... but that's a different argument). it was always foolish to assume anything else.

    I think they could have kept SOME stuff... but coming from a long history of multiple earths and separate continuities I've never had a problem with the movies being their thing, EU being it's own thing and Disney still having the rights to be their own universe. I've never understood people's objection to that. It's what we've had with every comic movie ever...

    Even the Star wars comics, games and novels occasionally contradicted each other. It was a valiant attempt at continuity... but it wasn't THAT tight.

  22. #47
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I'll admit, I don't understand what you're going for with that analogy. Mostly because the way they were released was OT, PT, ST... Many of the complaints about PT was that it didn't fit in with how the timeline played out and stuff... so the whole 'father's life' thing just isn't working for me.


    As for the EU... It had to die. Disney was right to do that. Even Lucas would have done it had he done his version of 7, 8, and 9. There was simply TOO much stuff and TOO much time had passed. Hamill and Ford simply could NOT film a proper Thawne trilogy at their age and you simply can not expect new audiences to go out and read 30+ novels to get them up to the present day... It's not realistic.

    For Disney to buy a property like this... they HAD to be able to have open license to film their own movies (I wish they had filmed BETTER movies... but that's a different argument). it was always foolish to assume anything else.

    I think they could have kept SOME stuff... but coming from a long history of multiple earths and separate continuities I've never had a problem with the movies being their thing, EU being it's own thing and Disney still having the rights to be their own universe. I've never understood people's objection to that. It's what we've had with every comic movie ever...

    Even the Star wars comics, games and novels occasionally contradicted each other. It was a valiant attempt at continuity... but it wasn't THAT tight.
    You never will get it because of your "rose
    colored" glasses you wear...sorry I'm on other websites and alot of Star wars fans don't feel that way..

    I'll admit, I don't understand what you're going for with that analogy
    Really? OK I guess I have to SPELL it out:

    PT: Your Father's timeline
    OT: Your timeline
    ST: Your Kid's timeline

    Sorta like Anakin,Luke & Rey/Ben's story...hmmm Does that help?
    Last edited by Megalodon; May 18, 2019 at 10:58am.

  23. #48
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    Besides hating the Last Jedi and thinking Attack of the Clones is kind of boring, I think the other films are good. I even like the Ewoks films and hope some day we get the complete series of Droids and Ewoks on DVD. The Force Awakens has gone down a few notches thanks to Last Jedi throwing out everything it set up, but it can be redeemed some if JJ reverses course with the Rise of Skywalker. I don't mind the Special Editions, but feel the OOT needs a proper HD release.

  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    Besides hating the Last Jedi and thinking Attack of the Clones is kind of boring, I think the other films are good. I even like the Ewoks films and hope some day we get the complete series of Droids and Ewoks on DVD. The Force Awakens has gone down a few notches thanks to Last Jedi throwing out everything it set up, but it can be redeemed some if JJ reverses course with the Rise of Skywalker. I don't mind the Special Editions, but feel the OOT needs a proper HD release.
    I would love a complete DVD release of Droids and Ewoks unaltered. I have the DVD's that came out in 2005 but they changed the music on them and it wasn't the full series.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    You never will get it because of your "rose
    colored" glasses you wear...sorry I'm on other websites and alot of Star wars fans don't feel that way..


    Probalby not, but I can say I'm not the only one wearing them. Most of the Star Wars fans I know... even the really rabid EU ones agree that they're most upset about losing PARTS of the EU... and that there was a lot a junk in there too. They didn't want ALL of it... just their favorite parts.
    The Nostalgia runs strong where they also focus on the stuff they love and forget the crap too...


    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Really? OK I guess I have to SPELL it out:

    PT: Your Father's timeline
    OT: Your timeline
    ST: Your Kid's timeline

    Sorta like Anakin,Luke & Rey/Ben's story...hmmm Does that help?
    That doesn't spell anything out... you're just repeating what you said earlier the exact same way you said it. I understand there are 3 generations of stories... but what's your point? I grew up with the OT that's a fact... but my parents don't prefer the PT or anything. The kids today do seem to love the new stuff... but you're analogy still doesn't work.

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