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Thread: Season Three is coming August 2nd! Geena Davis As Huntara

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Exor View Post
    Hordak is sympathetic; are you telling me you can't empathize with his feelings of insecurity and having to justify himself despite being labeled defective? Do those feelings not ironically mirror Catra's on some level? Did he not grow to appreciate Entrapta's company despite previously being cold and aloof? You seem to be conflating the definition of flat character with a static character. A flat character is one-dimensional and doesn't have any identifiable traits outside of their role in the story (think Unicron), while a static character is merely a character that never develops, either because there's no demand from the story, or their psychology simply doesn't allow for it. There are plenty of complete monsters that aren't flat characters, but do fall under the definition of static character, and there's nothing inherently wrong with the latter. I hate to bring up Palpatine again, but his character has far more to it than simply being the Bad Guy™.

    You're also considering a "fleshed out" character to be someone that isn't motivated purely by narcissism, megalomania, and grandiosity, despite those qualities being very real human traits. Someone not in possession of those traits isn't an intrinsically superior, more complex, or better-written character. What do you even consider to be "complex?" I'd say that as long as a character has a tangible personality, background, and motivation, they're complex enough.
    Having sympathetic aspects in ones backstory and motivations dosn't make a character overall sympathetic.

    "Hordak is sympathetic; are you telling me you can't empathize with his feelings of insecurity and having to justify himself despite being labeled defective?"

    As some one who could considered defective myself, I have sympathy for people feeling that way but that sympathy goes out the window when you do horrible and use that as an excuse.

    Also you keep ignoring the example I baught up with Kira. The guy has no redeeming qaulities and dosn't change as a person throughout the story, he is absolutly a complete monster, but the story still gives us of an idea about how life molded him into the person her is and how he genruly lives his life. He is vile and irideemable, but neverless still comes across as human.

  2. #102
    Widget Lord Exor's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, you don't need to have anything but bad genetics to turn you into a terrible person. The sliding scale of nature versus nurture with regard to psychology is just that, a sliding scale. What about Dio Brando? He grew up in a crummy environment but he probably would have turned out to be a monster either way. Frieza is another example of a character born to wealth and prominence whose genetics are officially to account for both his cruelty and power.

    Anyway, I think if Hordak really is a clone, I can easily see why Horde Prime would find him defective.
    Last edited by Lord Exor; August 4, 2019 at 01:58am.

  3. #103
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Exor View Post
    Unfortunately, you don't need to have anything but bad genetics to turn you into a terrible person. The sliding scale of nature versus nurture with regard to psychology is just that, a sliding scale. What about Dio Brando? He grew up in a crummy environment but he probably would have turned out to be a monster either way. Frieza is another example of a character born to wealth and prominence whose genetics are officially to account for both his cruelty and power.

    Anyway, I think if Hordak really is a clone, I can easily see why Horde Prime would find him defective.
    Yes and no. Kira and Dio would have likley been bad people one way or the other, but the environments they were raised in made them worse.

    My point is that people who are naturaly evil and dangarous no matter what their environment are incredably rare and people who are the way they are because of upbringing and other factors in their lives, are a much more common danger in the real world and somthing you are much more likley to encounter.

  4. #104
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    ‘She-Ra’ Creator Noelle Stevenson on Season 3 | Saturday Mourning Cartoons Podcast

    http://collider.com/she-ra-season-3-...son-interview/
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  5. #105
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    I fully acknowledge this, but I also acknowledge that the people who are naturally evil tend to be far more dangerous and unfettered. These people don't have any emotional frailties to give them pause or cause internal conflict, and as a result, they tend to manipulate and use those that do possess such traits.

    Both Catra and Hordak are emotionally compromised, and both of them have been manipulated as a result. If you've noticed, since the arrival of Entrapta, Hordak steadily began to drop that intimidating grip he once held on his supposed minions. He was brazenly jeered by Catra--to his face--at the beginning of Season 3, and Hordak immediately lost his composure. That isn't something Catra, or anyone really, would have done back in Season 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    Thank you for putting this into words!
    I would describe Hordak in this series as neither flat nor static and would argue that he's ten times more developed here than he has been in any previous media. Now, whether folks LIKE what they are doing with Hordak in this series in a matter of personal preference. But there's no denying that the writers on this show are giving most of the characters here way more development and thought and purpose than what came before.
    And, frankly, I really was not expecting that to be the case when the first promo images from this series were leaked.
    Hordak's development is very logical if Horde Prime is going to be far more prominent a character down the road. Hordak being uber evil would be redundant.

    I don't mind Hordak's development, but I still want to see the Horde do terrible things in order to justify why they're considered bad, and despite the fact that this series is objectively superior to the original in almost every way, it somehow falls short of that. In fact, what happened to all of Hordak's troops? They just sort of disappeared once Shadow Weaver infiltrated the Fright Zone? Are you telling me Hordak has a skeleton crew of guards now?
    Last edited by Lord Exor; August 4, 2019 at 11:37am.

  6. #106
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    She-Ra's Noelle Stevenson Talks Mara & the Question of Fate

    https://www.cbr.com/noelle-stevenson...iew-mara-fate/

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    She-Ra's Noelle Stevenson On Season 3's Sympathetic Villains

    https://www.cbr.com/noelle-stevenson...e-ra-season-3/
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  7. #107
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    Sooo Hordak is reduced to a defective discarded clone whose body is giving up the ghost and allowing himself to be Molly coddled by Entrapta . Probably paving the way for fixated Catra to become the new leader because her obsession is now a new level of crazy Evil.

    On the other side of the coin queen Angella feels like a useless coward so flies into the black hole and frees the sword , tossing it to She Ra , trapping or suiciding herself in the process .

    Two primary characters pretty much destroyed .

    That's just great ......

  8. #108
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Molly coddled seems a bit strong. He didn't suddenly become nicer to anyone else or anything, she just seems to have gotten him to stop seeing failure as a terminable offense. And it didn't knock him off track to try to summon the Horde. At present she seems to have had the same effect Mrs. Bradley had on Wrath and Pride in Fullmetal Alchemist: this is nice and we appreciate it, but we're still going through with a plan that will ultimately kill you and everything you love.
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  9. #109
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Sooo Hordak is reduced to a defective discarded clone whose body is giving up the ghost and allowing himself to be Molly coddled by Entrapta . Probably paving the way for fixated Catra to become the new leader because her obsession is now a new level of crazy Evil.

    On the other side of the coin queen Angella feels like a useless coward so flies into the black hole and frees the sword , tossing it to She Ra , trapping or suiciding herself in the process .

    Two primary characters pretty much destroyed .

    That's just great ......
    I think the scene with Angella was great. One of the top best scenes in the series so far. The speech about her fears and how she compares herself with her view of the bravery of Micah and Glimmer, and her choice not to let Adora die for the sake of everyone and instead sacrifice herself in her place, were so moving, and so well executed. There are so many little details that add up to make this scene so compelling: every gesture and look, the perfectly chosen and perfectly acted voice inflections, the subtle shakiness of the image to suggest the giganticness of the forces acting there, the light effects of the vortex, the color palettes, the carefully chosen camera angles... and most of all, Sunna Wehrmeijer's absolutely superb soundtrack. I could rewatch this scene a hundred times and not get tired of it one bit.
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  10. #110
    Widget Lord Exor's Avatar
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    Wasn't Hordak always a bit pitiful in She-Ra though? He was always getting betrayed, outmaneuvered by Skeletor, or excoriated by Horde Prime. With Horde Prime seemingly set to have a much more prominent role in this show, Hordak's softening was unavoidable.
    Last edited by Lord Exor; August 4, 2019 at 09:08pm.

  11. #111
    Argenternian heavy-eternium's Avatar
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    I don't want to make an opinion for each episodes because I binged it and I see it as a whole thing .

    I think it was a great (mini)season with great revelations and outcomes.They got into the MOTU mythology on an interesting way but what I like most about this season ,actually the whole series so far ,are the characters.
    All of them are so well develonment , especially I love Entrapta because for my it's difficult to decodify her personality ,she is a genius but innocent ,it seems like she has some attention issues and can't differentiate the good from the evil but she's a good person.Entrapta is sooo amazing.

    Regarding Hordak ,I like what they did with. The clone concept instead to reduced the character ,it makes more interesting .I suspect this concept was created by a MOTU writer like Tim Seelley o Rob David.

    I'd like the idea that the first ones were members of the elders of Eternia and some of them,including Veena ,decided to get apart and explorate the stars.
    I also Like the idea that while King Grayskull created the sword of power,Veena was who created the sword of protection.
    Last edited by heavy-eternium; August 5, 2019 at 12:06am.

  12. #112
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Exor View Post
    Wasn't Hordak always a bit pitiful in She-Ra though? He was always getting betrayed, outmaneuvered by Skeletor, or excoriated by Horde Prime. With Horde Prime seemingly set to have a much more prominent role in this show, Hordak's softening was unavoidable.

    Yes he was goofy . But he was unique stand alone entity only disrespected by Horde Prime . Unlike Skeletor he never once had a temporary alliance with good guys . AND NOBODY DIED OR DYING !

    This new Hordaks prominent role in the show is now dying of cancer and suffering self confidence issues and making Cat Ra look cool .

    The writers had a unique opportunity to put a real face to the mysterious Horde Prime but they make him a Hordak instead but thats not my biggest problem with this add on ?

    If they did not did care for the good matriarch and evil patriarch why add them in the first place ? No fan wants to watch these two characters assassinated .


    Feels like a writer took petty revenge for some psychological shock in their entertainment past . I am thinking Buffy season 6 where Tara gets shot .
    Last edited by Lokus; August 5, 2019 at 09:14am.

  13. #113
    Heroic Warrior Cheshire Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Yes he was goof . But he was unique stand alone entity only disrespected by Horde Prime . Unlike Skeletor he never once had a temporary alliance with good guys . AND NOBODY DIED OR DYING !

    This new Hordaks prominent role in the show is now dying of cancer and suffering self confidence issues and making Cat Ra look cool .

    The writers had a unique opportunity to put a real face to the mysterious Horde Prime but they make him a Hordak instead but thats not my biggest problem with this add on ?

    If they did not did care for the good matriarch and evil patriarch why add them in the first place ? No fan wants to watch these two characters assassinated .


    Feels like a writer took petty revenge for some psychological shock in their entertainment past . I am thinking Buffy season 6 where Tara gets shot .
    Lol Perfuma literally annoyed Hordak into letting her go by making flowers and being cheery. I think you may be looking at the original through rose coloured glasses. Noelle's Hordak is far scarier than OG Hordak ever was IMO.
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  14. #114
    Heroic Warrior Jeevesosiris's Avatar
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    I love this show. Completely.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    Yes he was goofy . But he was unique stand alone entity only disrespected by Horde Prime . Unlike Skeletor he never once had a temporary alliance with good guys . AND NOBODY DIED OR DYING !

    This new Hordaks prominent role in the show is now dying of cancer and suffering self confidence issues and making Cat Ra look cool .

    The writers had a unique opportunity to put a real face to the mysterious Horde Prime but they make him a Hordak instead but thats not my biggest problem with this add on ?

    If they did not did care for the good matriarch and evil patriarch why add them in the first place ? No fan wants to watch these two characters assassinated .


    Feels like a writer took petty revenge for some psychological shock in their entertainment past . I am thinking Buffy season 6 where Tara gets shot .
    Uh, I'm having a difficult time parsing your post. I'll respond to the bit about Horde Prime: We already knew he looked like Hordak in some way. He was established as Hordak's older brother in POP, and MOTUC expanded on this by finally revealing Horde Prime's face and backstory.



    If they make him a red Hordak with unique facial features and armor, that at least falls into line with the lore we've received previously--it's better than that goofy UK comic Horde Prime.

  16. #116
    Heroic Warrior jonathan182's Avatar
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    Just finished. I think this is a really strong season, I was really impressed by it. At first I was turned off by it only being like a 6-episode mini-season again, but the story is tight and didn't waste any time on fluff. Perhaps that got all of that out in season 2, because this was a big step up.

  17. #117
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    This season was SOOO Good! the first episode- 'the Price of Power' ... i remember The original Shadow Weaver episode of the same name, which was awesome, and this was a great little nod to it. I actually really love what they have done with Shadow Weaver in this series.. That she is a magical parasite/vampire is a really good angle for her... And that you just don't know what she wants... but we know that she knows a lot more about Adora/she ra's powers than we are yet to see..

    Love this series... MARA... and Angella coming through.. i think this is a brilliant series. i was a huge fan of the originals.. but these pick up the torch so well, if not with the design, but definitely with the writing..
    I'm looking forward to see what they do next.

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Exor View Post
    Uh, I'm having a difficult time parsing your post. I'll respond to the bit about Horde Prime: We already knew he looked like Hordak in some way. He was established as Hordak's older brother in POP, and MOTUC expanded on this by finally revealing Horde Prime's face and backstory.

    https://i0.wp.com/electrifiedporcupi...88%2C450&ssl=1

    If they make him a red Hordak with unique facial features and armor, that at least falls into line with the lore we've received previously--it's better than that goofy UK comic Horde Prime.

    In the filmation cartoon horde prime was some giant being hidden in shadow . All anyone saw was an iron fist and glowing eyes .

  19. #119
    Heroic Warrior Cheshire Moon's Avatar
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    I mean considering how different Imp is from Hordak (taking into account the pretty heavy implication that he is one of Hordak's failed self-cloning attempts) AND that Hordak is established as an imperfect clone of Prime I think we'll see some visual distinction - if not in their features certainly in their attire. I can't wait for the Horde proper to arrive in Etheria!

    Its weird to me that folk seem put off by Hordak's vulnerability - the dude is a flawed clone of an intergalactic conquerer and he managed to build a force that is pretty close to conquering Etheria, that's pretty badass in my book. While perhaps not as self-assured as Filmation Hordak he's certainly more ruthless.
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  20. #120
    Heroic Warrior Lokus's Avatar
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    A flawed Boss Villain is even less of a threat to an invulnerable supergirl protagonist . She Ra needs all the flaws she can carry to help bring her down and more relatable to mere mortals .

    Hordak on the other hand needs to be the opposite to be a proper worthy opposition but its clear the writers want to make this a Cat Ra vs She Ra story . What Hordak was in season 1 is what is needed . Should have kept him that way even if it ended in some titanic death battle between him and Cat Ra ending with his defeat .

    Hence Hordak is a bad copy discarded like garbage . Soooo Hordak is not really evil , he is just bitter because he was mistreated and dying . In theory yes he should be honoured for his accomplishments despite his physical short comings but this whole story arc is just a convenience for paving the way for Queen Cat Ra taking over management . I also dread this new possibly of a disabled and possibly healed by She Ra , Hordak now joining the rebellion .

    I dont mind Weaver doing that , she had a connection in the past with the good guys , She RA healed Weaver while Hordak tossed her . Weaver has an ulterior motive most likely . My lil brother pointed out that Glimmer was "stepping into the darkness " when she crossed the shadowy threshold and took Weavers hand . The opposite of the intro song ....

    Good point on Imp . I never considered that . Apologies to user Asher Tye , Imp is rather insignificant in the greater scheme of things . I can accept him being a clone or experiment .

    My new question is are we only getting 4 or 5 episodes next time ?
    Last edited by Lokus; August 6, 2019 at 06:32am.

  21. #121
    Heroic Warrior Cheshire Moon's Avatar
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    I respectfully, totally disagree,

    Hordak was mysterious in season 1, in Season 2 (and "Season 3") we learn more about him - his goals and the methods achieving those goals remain much the same. We learn that he has vulnerablities but these vulnerabilites explain his drive to succeed, to conquer, to prove himself - and now that his body his augmented he's even more powerful and more capable of achieving those goals.

    I don't see his 'weakening' as a stepping stone to Catra taking over the horde, but honestly if it is I'm fine with that - for the purposes of THIS version of She-Ra Catra works as a more personal (and therefore in many ways a better) antagonist to Adora and She-Ra.

    We quite clearly are shown that Horde Prime and the Horde proper are coming to Etheria. Shadow Weaver has straight up said that the princesses and the rebellion won't stand a chance against them - I'm excited to see She-Ra face a fully empowered Horde - it gives her to opportunity to do something Mara failed at, stopping the Horde and truly freeing Etheria.

    I fully expect Catra to make a play for Horde Prime's good graces when he arrives but as I said before that makes sense for the story they're telling. Villains in She-Ra have never had firm loyaly. Both Catra and Shadow Weaver made power plays against Hordak in the original. The difference here is that we have proper arc based story telling and villains and heroes who have clearer personal motivations and read as multi-faceted people.

    Regarding the eps.
    As I understand it Noelle and her team had 4 seasons of 13 episodes each pretty much complete - Season 1 was a full season and then Netflix made the descision to split the rest of the seasons into two chunks and release them in earlier intervals - thus 'Season 2' became 7 eps and the second half of it (the remaining 6 eps) became 'Season 3' - thus we can gather than Season 4 (What would have been the actual start of Season 3) will be 7 or 6 episodes.
    Last edited by Cheshire Moon; August 6, 2019 at 08:35am.
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  22. #122
    Warrior of Evolution 13977's Avatar
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    Season 3 really stepped it up a notch. A lot of the dialogue and humour is still terrible but the story telling and character development have been really good this season.
    I cant believe they've actually used Mara from NA! Thats an amazing connection I never saw coming. Like most people I just assume the name was a coincidence.
    We got another glimpse of Grizzlor and Octavia this season but I'm still surprised we haven't seen Leech, Mantena or Modulok even in the background. It was great to see Tung Lashor but surprised Rattlor wasn't with him.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokus View Post
    In the filmation cartoon horde prime was some giant being hidden in shadow . All anyone saw was an iron fist and glowing eyes .
    Those design cues were incorporated into the MOTUC version, including the helmet configuration and creepy cybernetic arms. Horde Prime is established to be Hordak's brother in POP, so it makes sense that they're both of the same species. The giant thing never made sense, and it's better to assume it was some sort of embellished hologram.

    At any rate, even though Shadow Weaver and Catra are manipulative, I think it's about time we were introduced to a proper villainous mastermind that plots, plans, and plays a game of chess with the characters. I want to see Catra sink deeper into madness when she discovers she's being played as a pawn yet again.
    Last edited by Lord Exor; August 6, 2019 at 12:58pm.

  24. #124
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Noelle Stevenson on She-Ra's Shocking Twist, Shorter Seasons, and What's Next in Etheria

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/noelle-steve...sea-1836978486
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  25. #125
    Heroic Warrior Chris85's Avatar
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    I finished season 3 and I have to say Adora/She-Ra is not a likable character, I find her annoying, loud and not interesting, not to mention that awful She-Ra design. She's a failure as the main character and superhero on many levels. I enjoyed Hordak's and Entrapta's bonding. Scorpia is a cute character. Bow is nice (but still waiting for him to redeem himself for abandoning Kyle). Queen Angella is decent character and I like her accent. Madame Razz is a good character too. Huntara was cool. Surprise appearance of Tung Lashor was so good. I wish the Evil Hord had such warriors, not generic Lonnie, etc.
    Someone described what I felt on Reddit - that the world feels empty. We barely see any characters that the Evil Horde is supposed to be threatening.
    The background music on the show is something I want to applaud for.
    Last edited by Chris85; August 6, 2019 at 07:48pm.

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