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Thread: Could He-Man be openly gay in a new media adaptation?

  1. #226
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I did say *not everyone* has those issues, but one can't deny that those issues exist and are at the forefront of *some* people's views. I wasn't trying to single any particular person out. I watch movies/TV, read books/comics, and listen to music for entertainment too, but I would not be honest if I didn't say that I gravitate to progressive themes more often than those themes that aren't.
    I completely understand, and it makes 100% sense that you identify strongly with more progressive themes.


    I only said something because, even though you said "some people", you still made a point to say you question the audience for poor sales on story that contains progressive elements. And to do that, it takes a lot more than those "some people" for the sales to be poor.

    Like Swanmarsh said, nostalgia is a heavy driver for love of existing properties. And escapism is another. It doesn't mean there's anything ill intended by a number of the people who aren't eager for progressive elements to become a part of those properties.
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  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I did say *not everyone* has those issues, but one can't deny that those issues exist and are at the forefront of *some* people's views. I wasn't trying to single any particular person out. I watch movies/TV, read books/comics, and listen to music for entertainment too, but I would not be honest if I didn't say that I gravitate to progressive themes more often than those themes that aren't.
    And both "progressive-themed media" leaning people and "less progressive-themed media" leaning people (some would call them "more Conservative-themed media" leaning people) should be able to get their equivalent comicbook/fantasy fix.

    It's a matter of fairness.

    Forcing anything starts to come across authoritarian. Judging people simply on their opinions of what they like? It's another way of telling people what they SHOULD like. What they HAVE to like, or there's something wrong with their character.

    NO comicbook fan anywhere on the political spectrum wants that.

    As long as both sides are easy-going, then it shouldn't be a problem.....but it is important that both sides be aware of its potential for entitlement and bullying at the expense of other fans.

    Statements like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I have to question the audience and not the property. There have to be deeper issues that some people have that would indicate these poor sales. You can't always blame the property in such incidents. I'm not saying you should always blame the audience of course, but there has to be some underlying issue that people have against diversity that is troubling.
    whether "not all" or not have a dangerous "witch hunt" element within them. A witch hunt of comicbook fans...not to be overly hokey but, our own brothers and sisters! Our fellow nerds

    A witch hunt like that, taken to it's logical conclusion? It won't end well.

    In my opinion, in these cases its just best to accept that LIFE ITSELF is "troubling", it's complicated, and non-stop ferreting out of every last bit of hate, and exposing it in an effort to exterminate it is impossible, and actually makes things worse off than better off.

  3. #228
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I completely disagree, everything should have equality and diversity. I still believe being progressive is the best thing, even if there isn't evidence to show this. If there are poor sales of progressive stories, I have to question the audience and not the property. There have to be deeper issues that some people have that would indicate these poor sales. You can't always blame the property in such incidents. I'm not saying you should always blame the audience of course, but there has to be some underlying issue that people have against diversity that is troubling.
    What I meant by my statement of not everything needing diversity and equality is that some stories etc if they go for authentisity cannot always be iclusive of different ethnicities and minority groups.
    Like a movie set in China with asian characters they are hardly going to cast many caucasian or african actors etc.

  4. #229
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    That's not a fair thing to say. A number of people watch movies, TV, read books, comics, etc, as an escape. Some people are fans of things because those properties are a place they can take a break from the problems we face in the real world. It doesn't mean those people have some sort of underlying issue.
    THIS a thousand times. Contrary to what people may think, forced diversity is actually causing a lot of issues with properties and this is exactly why. I am not going to pay to see a film or buy a comic that focuses on preaching to me instead of telling a good story.

    People say that there was never inclusion in media prior to the inclusion-palooza we find ourselves inundated with. I disagree. I have been re-watching a lot of 80's media due to current media being trash and the 80's stuff is rich with people of all colors, capable women, etc.

    I have been reading Walking Dead comics for 16 years. That is one of the most inclusive comic series I have EVER read and it was not forced. The creator found a way to include people of all races, religions, sexuality, etc. during the freaking zombie apocalypse.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  5. #230
    ‹ber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Exactly! MOTU didn't go on to make a billion dollars back in the day because it exclusively (or even primarily) appealed to boys with blonde hair.

    And for those for whom these identifying characteristics do matter, if anything Adam_PoE's story does more to support the idea of new characters being created with those characteristics rather than changing up existing characters.

    After his negative experience with regards to Superman, it wasn't some kind of reboot or new incarnation of Superman with blonde hair that Adam_PoE went on to "identify" with and get excited about. It was He-Man, a (then) new, original character. Sure, he may share aspects of and inspiration from other characters, but he wasn't some kind of an actual, substantially overhauled reboot of an existing character. I don't see why we need to make massive changes to existing characters now when new ones can be created and in some cases some existing, but lesser known characters can be brought to the forefront (Black Panther comes to mind as an example of this).
    It does not support any idea, really. It is an anecdote, not an argument.

    MY only point is that people often take for granted the power of seeing themselves represented in media. Whether that is because they are members of a majority group, and are used to seeing themselves represented; or they are members of a minority group, and are used to having to see qualities of themselves in the way others are represented.

    At the end of the day, seeing myself represented was a powerful thing to a four-year-old me. So much so, that I would not deny it of someone else. Even if it meant changing something with which I identify in a character I love. A version for someone else does not make my version go away.

    And that is what is so strange about these arguments, and people being so precious over these characters that they can only be the way they remember.

  6. #231
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    MY only point is that people often take for granted the power of seeing themselves represented in media. Whether that is because they are members of a majority group, and are used to seeing themselves represented; or they are members of a minority group, and are used to having to see qualities of themselves in the way others are represented.

    At the end of the day, seeing myself represented was a powerful thing to a four-year-old me. So much so, that I would not deny it of someone else. Even if it meant changing something with which I identify in a character I love. A version for someone else does not make my version go away.
    Agreed. Changing something won't make the previous version cease to exist. That's why I'm all about the story-telling. Strong characters are what matter. You love them for who they are, no matter what gender, sexuality, race, etc, they are.

    That said (and I'm just repeating myself at this point, so please forgive me) I'm still not for changing something that's established in a prior canon, unless it makes sense for the new rendition. But at the same time, I see no reason the sexuality of characters that did not have a clear back story can't be fleshed out further in a new canon. And as a result, they can be used to represent people from all walks of life.

    Like APoE said, there are people that take for granted that they see themselves represented all the time, so it's not something they think about. But there's a lot of people who get no representation in media, and it's hard for them because they can be made to feel like they don't matter to the rest of the world. Granted, not everyone feels this way, but I understand why some people do. So I feel creators should take advantage of a story-telling opportunity when they have it to use previously undefined characters to help represent as many different types of people as possible. And considering MOTU & POP are "everything, including the kitchen sink" properties, it makes complete sense that they are used in this way.
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  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    For me only "a secret" rings true. Speaking as a gay man I can tell you Adam having a secret identity plays heavily into how most gay boys had to grow up back in the 80s. I had an aspect of my life I couldn't tell anyone else about. Speaking with other gay guys my age they've stated as much to me as well. None of this campy pink-wearing superficialness effected me. It was deeper than that.
    Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. Hopefully a lot of the conjecture on this thread can be informed by a real human being sharing real life experience.

  8. #233
    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    I think it'd be ok to have a secondary character be gay, like maybe Mekanek or Spikor or Evil Lyn or Rio Blast, but not He-Man. It basically has to do with Teela. There was always this underlying tension between the two, so to change He-Man to be gay would be to change that basic story point. Even though He-Man has changed through Alcala, Filmation, and beyond, there was always the He-man/Teela dynamic. I do not think that is something that should be changed.

    I am all for inclusion, as long as it does not change basic story points. I guess He-Man could be bi, though?

    And I would rather Skeletor to be asexual since he should be incapable of lust or love.
    "Everything comes to he who waits."

  9. #234
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_mole_hill View Post
    Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience. Hopefully a lot of the conjecture on this thread can be informed by a real human being sharing real life experience.
    I am sure you did not mean to come off this way, but one person's experience does not negate another person's experience.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    That's not a fair thing to say. A number of people watch movies, TV, read books, comics, etc, as an escape. Some people are fans of things because those properties are a place they can take a break from the problems we face in the real world. It doesn't mean those people have some sort of underlying issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    THIS a thousand times.
    Case in point, as far as what I was attempting to say in my previous post.

    Can you imagine thousands of comicbook/fantasy fans witnessing someONE they are having a discussion with, or (worse yet) some culture they are immersed in, has decided that in discussing entertainment it's progressively acceptable to conclude that people that think like they do have morally bankrupt "underlying issues"? That moral judgement can be made about their simple preferences?

    Pointing out that social justice dealers can't mean "all" people who make critiques of progressive ideas? That doesn't work here because of the "witch hunt" element of this thinking. This creates a scenario where when the "non-morally bankrupt" fans try to innocently discuss their opinions publicly, what used to be fun fan discussion is now drowned out by the political implications made by those on the previously mentioned moral witch hunt.

    Welcome to the Terror-dome.

    With the way media is set up these days, it's so far gone, that it would make me myself say its not worth discussing at all, but frankly I don't think enough people see the machinations of the problem to even process it properly, let alone address it properly.

  11. #236
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    I see Power Rangers being thrown around a lot. Power Rangers had their first openly gay Power Ranger in the 2017 film which ended up being a financial disappoint. Before its release, they were planning to make six or seven films for the franchise, now they will be lucky if they get even one more before they reboot it again years from now. There are probably several reasons why that movie failed, but taking chances probably didn't help and it probably wouldn't help Masters of the Universe which is not a guaranteed money maker. Marvel's MCU didn't do it until 20 movies in and it was with a non-super hero. I definitely wouldn't change a pre-established character like Adam/He-Man.

  12. #237
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I watched that Power Rangers movie, twice. Trust me, I did not want to. It was pretty bad all around.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

    You laugh at me because I question everything. I laugh at you because you question nothing.

  13. #238
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    I thought the new Power Rangers movie was BRILLIANT, I don't care what the naysayers, critics, or reviews said about it. I always make up my own mind about these things and never follow "popular opinion" or "the majority".
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

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  14. #239
    Court Magician pcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post

    MY only point is that people often take for granted the power of seeing themselves represented in media. Whether that is because they are members of a majority group, and are used to seeing themselves represented; or they are members of a minority group, and are used to having to see qualities of themselves in the way others are represented.

    At the end of the day, seeing myself represented was a powerful thing to a four-year-old me. So much so, that I would not deny it of someone else. Even if it meant changing something with which I identify in a character I love. A version for someone else does not make my version go away.
    This is a great point. I think representation is so important, and people really do take it for granted. How much more powerful would it be to a minority viewer/reader to see someone like them appear on screen/page, than just to deliver the a "faithful" depiction of an existing character? Why not have a young gay person feel empowered by seeing someone like him/her depicted, giving them someone to look up to, a role model to be inspired by?

    And keep in mind that, during the creation of the original MOTU, homosexuality wasn't as accepted as it is today, so some characters who might have been depicted as gay would not be depicted that way because there was a fear it wouldn't be accepted by the broader culture. Maybe Ram Man prefers the company of men? It doesn't change who he is, since he was never shown having a sexual orientation in the original MOTU. Or maybe one of the faces of Man-E-Faces is gay, or even trans, for real diversity.

    But I know the subject here is whether He-Man could be gay in the new movie. I think he could, but I think he also has an established sexual tension with Teela, and an actual romance with Mara (in the newspaper comics--seriously, guys, read the newspaper collection, so good!) So I think you could have a more diverse set of characters in a new depiction of MOTU and not lose what was fun about the original.

  15. #240
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    The problem with the Power Rangers movie was nothing to do with a character being gay.
    Personally I didn't think it was too bad...but it definitely had a lot of faults.
    The biggest one being it was just retelling of the early 90s origin story and the story was pretty boring.
    My biggest issue is with their suits and the designs of the zords. The lacked the charm and appeal of all the other Power Rangers shows and movies.

  16. #241
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    The problem with the Power Rangers movie was nothing to do with a character being gay.
    Personally I didn't think it was too bad...but it definitely had a lot of faults.
    The biggest one being it was just retelling of the early 90s origin story and the story was pretty boring.
    My biggest issue is with their suits and the designs of the zords. The lacked the charm and appeal of all the other Power Rangers shows and movies.
    I seriously hated their suits and the zords and then the giant zord. I never really liked MMPR, I am more of a Voltron gal, but what I did like about the earlier ones is that the zords actually looked like something. I want the bright colors and the boxy designs, not the stream lined boring metal barf-a-rama they make them into. They are like Bay Bots :/
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  17. #242
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Personally, I've loved every season of Power Rangers I've seen (although there are some seasons that didn't air here which I'm now catching up with on Netflix) and I've loved all three feature films, including the weapons, powers, and Zords. I especially loved Kimberly's Pterodactyl Zord with the pink lasers in the new movie. I recognised each of the Zords with ease and I loved the new suits. For me, although I love the fight scenes and Zord battles in the franchise, I actually love the stories regarding the unmorphed Rangers in their every day lives, that's what makes the franchise so special, seeing all these amazing young people help others and learn every day life lessons while still being superheroes. I have my favourite Rangers (Billy, Rocky, Katherine, Aisha to name a few) of course, but I've not seen a Ranger I didn't like. My favourite villain of all time was Scorpina though.
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  18. #243
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I seriously hated their suits and the zords and then the giant zord. I never really liked MMPR, I am more of a Voltron gal, but what I did like about the earlier ones is that the zords actually looked like something. I want the bright colors and the boxy designs, not the stream lined boring metal barf-a-rama they make them into. They are like Bay Bots :/
    Yeah the suits looked too much like Iron Man.
    The Zords definitely did look a lot like Bay Bots although the actual Megazord looked worse. I would actually say it was the worse designed Megazord from all US and Japanese Power Ranger shows/movies.
    I liked the charm of the Kaiju suits and models for the zords.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Personally, I've loved every season of Power Rangers I've seen (although there are some seasons that didn't air here which I'm now catching up with on Netflix) and I've loved all three feature films, including the weapons, powers, and Zords. I especially loved Kimberly's Pterodactyl Zord with the pink lasers in the new movie. I recognised each of the Zords with ease and I loved the new suits. For me, although I love the fight scenes and Zord battles in the franchise, I actually love the stories regarding the unmorphed Rangers in their every day lives, that's what makes the franchise so special, seeing all these amazing young people help others and learn every day life lessons while still being superheroes. I have my favourite Rangers (Billy, Rocky, Katherine, Aisha to name a few) of course, but I've not seen a Ranger I didn't like. My favourite villain of all time was Scorpina though.
    There are some really good Power Rangers shows. In fact I as much as I have nostalgia for actually watching MMPR I would even admit dome of the later seasons in terms of characters and action etc are actually better than the first seasons.

    Have you ever watched any of the original Sentai Japanese versions of Power Rangers? They are also very good and quite different compared to the US version.
    I was quite surprised a few years ago when I found out why the Yellow Ranger Trinny/Aisha didn't have a skirt like the Pink Ranger Kimberly. Turns out in the Japanese version Zyuranger the Yellow Ranger is a man!

    Scorpina was great villain and had a great design. You should watch Zyuranger. Scorpina is called Lamy in Zyuranger.

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I am sure you did not mean to come off this way, but one person's experience does not negate another person's experience.
    I don't think my post had any inference of that. This thread is full of people guessing as to why He-Man was an icon to members of the gay community, and this was a fan who is a member of that community sharing their perspective. My comment was that it hopefully gave some perspective to those making guesses to have some insight from this person and that it would expand their thinking to be less superficial and stereotypical than "pink vest."

  20. #245
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Gotcha! I just read it wrong
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  21. #246
    ‹ber Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    The problem with the Power Rangers movie was nothing to do with a character being gay.
    Personally I didn't think it was too bad...but it definitely had a lot of faults.
    The biggest one being it was just retelling of the early 90s origin story and the story was pretty boring.
    My biggest issue is with their suits and the designs of the zords. The lacked the charm and appeal of all the other Power Rangers shows and movies.
    I actually think the film did most things right story-wise. Its biggest fault is taking two-thirds of the film to get the Rangers in their suits and Zords.

  22. #247
    Skeletor's Right Hand Man Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    The problem with the Power Rangers movie was nothing to do with a character being gay.
    Personally I didn't think it was too bad...but it definitely had a lot of faults.
    The biggest one being it was just retelling of the early 90s origin story and the story was pretty boring.
    My biggest issue is with their suits and the designs of the zords. The lacked the charm and appeal of all the other Power Rangers shows and movies.
    Yea it sucked liked most remakes do...

  23. #248
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Yea it sucked liked most remakes do...
    Not all remakes "suck", there are a lot of remakes that outshine the original, the movie musical Gypsy for example, the 1962 version with Rosalind Russell, Natalie Wood, and Karl Malden was good, but the 1993 remake with Bette Midler, Cynthia Gibb, and Peter Riegert was far better, and the remake corrected a mistake from the earlier version by reinstating the song Together, Wherever We Go (performed by the three leads) which had been cut from the original movie.
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

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  24. #249
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    I didn't hate Power Rangers 2017. Personally I liked the cast. I just thought the story was a bit boring and predictable and as I said I did not like the designs of the zords and especially the Megazord. After the first couple seasons I kind of lost interest in Power Rangers growing up but I always loved the Megazord designs and always liked seeing what each new version looked like. Even when I started high school I came across the awesome looking Shogun Megazord on sale for $15 and bought it one Christmas Eve.
    2017 Megazord just looked a big CGI mess straight out of Michael Bay Transformers.

    Allegedly Hasbro are rebooting Power Rangers with a new cast for another movie.
    https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/07/...d-ranger-actor
    Regardless of how I feel about the Bay Transformers movies they have drastically helped the Transformers brand, so hopefully Hasbro will do the same for Power Rangers.

  25. #250
    Cobra Saboteur Firefly's Avatar
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    Let's try to keep this thread on topic. If mentioning the Power Rangers make sure it relates to the topic of this thread. For a more general discussion of Power Rangers, please post in the Other thread linked below:
    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...=Power+Rangers

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