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Thread: Tim Burton's Batman released 30 years ago today

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Does this whole thing of DC films copying The Dark Knight trilogy, V For Vendetta and Watchmen the movie and taking the wrong lessons reminds anyone of the same thing that happened to comics in the 90s in the "dark age of comics" which is a comic era comic fans loathed?

    I mean in the 80s the rise of comics in the mainstream was when Frank Miller, Alan Moore and Katsuhiro Otomo becoming influential writers with The Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, V for Vendetta, Akira and more as they became hit graphic novels even when Akira came to the US from Japan in 1988 and became a cult favorite manga series that became influential just like the movie version of itself in 1988 and comic companies saw the success of these comics and took the wrong lessons in the late 80s and 90s taking the wrong lessons of Miller, Moore and Otomo and missing the point thinking "dark and gritty is everything".
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  2. #27
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    I actually never watch anything R-Rated, the content in that category/genre is usually a turn off for me.
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

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  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I actually never watch anything R-Rated, the content in that category/genre is usually a turn off for me.
    I love r rated movies and some of my fave movies are rated R like Robocop (1987), Blade Runner 1 and 2, Psycho, Terminator 1 and 2, Taxi Driver etc. face it, the world is rated R. And Robocop is the finest work of adult sci-fi action ever and such a brilliant movie as it's my all time favorite movie. I even enjoy R rated actioners of the 80s and 90s and all even from Stallone, Arnold, Bronson, Chow Yun Fat and all.
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    What do you think of Nolanites who say "Jack was too old for The Joker and just Jack playing Jack in Joker cosplay where Ledger is Joker playing Joker?" and Nolan's Batman is inspired by Dennis O'Neil's 70s comics even the way Gotham is portrayed in the 70s comics and Frank Miller's comics, The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, a couple of Batman TAS episodes and more.
    I would some what agree that Jack was too old for the part but I thought Jack was perfect at being eccentric, funny and menacing. As for the70's comics I have no idea. I am only familiar with comics from the late 80's and early 90's. But Nolan's Gotham was definitely off. There was nothing about it that seemed like Gotham it could have been any city.

    I would love a Batman movie that focuses more on his his detective skills in a Burton style Gotham with all the crazy villains acually looking like they should with the costumes.

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior Spikor1982's Avatar
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    Too true on Robocop [so deep-the pathos is so strong in the film], I think Robo and Terminator 2 are the best science fiction films ever made.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    I love r rated movies and some of my fave movies are rated R like Robocop (1987), Blade Runner 1 and 2, Psycho, Terminator 1 and 2, Taxi Driver etc. face it, the world is rated R. And Robocop is the finest work of adult sci-fi action ever and such a brilliant movie as it's my all time favorite movie. I even enjoy R rated actioners of the 80s and 90s and all even from Stallone, Arnold, Bronson, Chow Yun Fat and all.
    "I feel the best when I can't remember anything."

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    I love r rated movies and some of my fave movies are rated R like Robocop (1987), Blade Runner 1 and 2, Psycho, Terminator 1 and 2, Taxi Driver etc. face it, the world is rated R. And Robocop is the finest work of adult sci-fi action ever and such a brilliant movie as it's my all time favorite movie. I even enjoy R rated actioners of the 80s and 90s and all even from Stallone, Arnold, Bronson, Chow Yun Fat and all.
    Psycho 2 is pretty good and is a good sequel to the original but 3 and 4 are trash.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I would some what agree that Jack was too old for the part but I thought Jack was perfect at being eccentric, funny and menacing.
    Interestingly, I never really even think about Joker's age? Two Face is a District attorney has to have a few mileage on him... Freeze and Scarecrow are doctors... but Joker? He just kind of IS... He's not a physical threat and pretty much anyone could shoot someone in the face with acid... or a gun. So yeah, I don't get the 'too old' concept. We really don't have an age for 'comic' Joker.

    And yes... he had that wonderful 'Is he goofing around... or is he going to kill everyone in the room' kind of feel to him. There was that uncertainty where you didn't know what he was going to do... Ledger? You pretty much knew you were danger anytime he was around.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I would love a Batman movie that focuses more on his his detective skills in a Burton style Gotham with all the crazy villains acually looking like they should with the costumes.
    That's one thing I loved about the first one. It wasn't ALL gadgets and computers doing all the work... it actually showed Bruce pouring over file folders and deducing where the poison was and in what form and what combinations... The closest we've come to REAL detective work since then was Dark Knight and the 'bullet reconstruction' which was frankly too ridiculous to take seriously in such a serious movie. And again, the scanners did all the work... and he doesn't even create his own gadgets...

    But yes, to me Batman should always be about the Dark Night Detective concept. Hopefully the next one goes that route.

  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I liked the Adam West series and movie. Mask of the Phantasm is a brilliant Batman movie.
    I am not too keen on Nolan's movies. They have some good scenes but the characters don't reallt seem like the characters they are supposed to be with maybe Joker being the only exception. The plots of his movies were very boring and they just lacked the visual style to really make them proper Batman movies.

    I recall getting some of the Batman and Batman Returns figures and the VHS of Returns for Christmas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikor1982 View Post
    1966 I still love it. Adam West was able to play Bruce Wayne more in the film and I really love his take on the two characters.

    As for Nolan, I can't stand them. They are the most "un-superhero superhero movies". They are set too much in the real world and Batman may as well have just been a detective on the police force. There is no comic book fantasy in those films at all. The Batmobile was a disaster, the bat voice, even the cowl I just can't stand to even look at it. If I recall in TDKR the character of Catwoman isn't even called Catwoman-just Selina Kyle- I could be wrong but seem to remember that. Anyways not here to complain about these movies.

    I have said it before on this forum but I am a 100% Batman 1989/92 fanboy. I love everything about the 1989 film. I created an earlier thread detailing my Bat-obsession and comments. My 2nd favorite film is Batman 1989, --Frankenstein 1931 edging it out by a gnat's wing.
    So you don't think Nolan's films are like the 70's Dennis O'Neil comics even the way gotham is portrayed presented in Nolan's films and Nolan's films being like Frank Miller's version and Alan Moore's Killing Joke?

    Do you think the new generation that disses the Burton batman films and grew up with Nolan's Batman films need to respect their elder (pre 2000s) films? i mean without Burton there be no Batman TAS or Dark Knight trilogy. They need to give appreciation or respect to those that came before their films right?
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  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior Spikor1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    So you don't think Nolan's films are like the 70's Dennis O'Neil comics even the way gotham is portrayed presented in Nolan's films and Nolan's films being like Frank Miller's version and Alan Moore's Killing Joke?

    Do you think the new generation that disses the Burton batman films and grew up with Nolan's Batman films need to respect their elder (pre 2000s) films? i mean without Burton there be no Batman TAS or Dark Knight trilogy. They need to give appreciation or respect to those that came before their films right?
    Only read a handful of Bat comics in my life.
    Your second point- itís all generational and I donít worry about what others like/dislike. I think itís neat when people discover what came before but itís not required by any means.
    "I feel the best when I can't remember anything."

  10. #35
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    Saw Batman'89 like 8 times in the theater. I was a huge comics fan at the time and it was the thing to do that summer.
    Never cared for the sequel though but, loved that version of the bat costume...I think that's the closest they've gotten to how he looks in the comics.

  11. #36
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcr4 View Post
    Saw Batman'89 like 8 times in the theater. I was a huge comics fan at the time and it was the thing to do that summer.
    Never cared for the sequel though but, loved that version of the bat costume...I think that's the closest they've gotten to how he looks in the comics.
    Batman Returns was the ONLY good sequel the rest were garbage...

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Batman Returns was the ONLY good sequel the rest were garbage...
    You glad the franchise was rebooted after Batman and Robin? it needed one
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    You glad the franchise was rebooted after Batman and Robin? it needed one
    meh....


    Honestly I didn't regret seeing ANY of the Batman movies. Even at their worst they were still fun. Unlike Steel and Catwoman where I was physically upset I spent money on... Even Batman & Robin made me laugh at times.

    Honestly I think Batman NEEDS a little camp. Some humor. Some jokes to keep it moving. Admittedly B&R went too far... and I wasn't a fan of the neon... but Everything SINCE then has gone too far the OTHER direction to the point that the whole DCEU was poisoned. Shazam and Aquaman were FUN movies because they lightened up a bit. the rest... not so much.

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior DC_WARLORD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Honestly I think Batman NEEDS a little camp. Some humor. Some jokes to keep it moving. Admittedly B&R went too far... and I wasn't a fan of the neon... but Everything SINCE then has gone too far the OTHER direction to the point that the whole DCEU was poisoned. Shazam and Aquaman were FUN movies because they lightened up a bit. the rest... not so much.
    Very well said, and I agree totally.
    Odd Man Out

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    meh....


    Honestly I didn't regret seeing ANY of the Batman movies. Even at their worst they were still fun. Unlike Steel and Catwoman where I was physically upset I spent money on... Even Batman & Robin made me laugh at times.

    Honestly I think Batman NEEDS a little camp. Some humor. Some jokes to keep it moving. Admittedly B&R went too far... and I wasn't a fan of the neon... but Everything SINCE then has gone too far the OTHER direction to the point that the whole DCEU was poisoned. Shazam and Aquaman were FUN movies because they lightened up a bit. the rest... not so much.
    Batman and Robin is actually a brilliant drinking game, one shot for every cold related pun, one for every time bane says "baaaaaaaaane" and two for every gratuitous batbutt/nipple close up, were normally slaughtered after about 40 minutes
    Last edited by davelove81; September 4, 2019 at 03:32am.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior Palazzolor's Avatar
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    Wow! 30 years ago. That is crazy. It really was the one movie that set all the others in gear. Still love Keaton's Batman. He was smart to get out of the franchise when Joel Schumacher took over though. Michael Keaton went on record to say that he was at a meeting for the third movie and when he got the vibe that Schumacher wanted Batman to not be so dark, he knew it wasn't going to work.

  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikor1982 View Post
    Only read a handful of Bat comics in my life.
    Your second point- itís all generational and I donít worry about what others like/dislike. I think itís neat when people discover what came before but itís not required by any means.
    Some thinks Bale is a million times better with his throat cancer voice and his try-hard badassery. Keaton is the better Batman. Because he never had to try to be badass or a hero. He is Batman. He is the night.

    Back in 2017 i remembered on IMDB on one person on Black Panther and Nolan's Batman "you have to let the new generation have their heroes. You can't expect young people to give a damn about Blade or Batman 1989. Most things in pop culture don't stand the test of time with younger generations".

    This kind of argument is exactly why the quality of films is getting worse every year. This person is entitled to their opinion but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. I am not mad at this person either.

    It's the particular viewpoint that frustrates me. In fact, I personally feel that it represents the worst viewpoint possible when it comes to film criticism or film in general. And I stand by that. And it isn't entirely his fault that he thinks this way. It is a common viewpoint among a large majority of the younger generation.

    No. We should expect the current generation to respect and at least appreciate elder cinema. That doesn't mean that they have to like films like The Batman 1989 or Blade. But they should at least acknowledge them for their accomplishments. And that is not too much to ask either. And it isn't taking away their "heroes"

    They can love Black Panther all they want to and I have no issue with that at all. They can have him and the film. And they can have Blade or The Batman 1989/Returns too if they wish. Or not if they choose to do that as well.

    But they should take a look at those that came before Black Panther/Dark Knight trilogy and tip their hats to them. Not ignore them entirely. Am I really asking too much here? I don't think I am. I really don't.

    Without older cinema? You would have the films that we have today, I just think people particularly young people should appreciate and respect older cinema, just like they respect their grandparents and not bad mouth it.

    The "new generation" should at least give the classics the respect they deserve instead of expecting us to in a way forget our favorites and embrace their stuff. Did I like Black Panther? yes, do i like Dark Knight trilogy? not really but maybe at the time but not now but i still like the first 2 but Dark Knight Rises was a disaster. This and the quote "Nostalgia Card" are two points that I simply get fired up over.
    Someone said to me in July back that I should quote "Forget my nostalgia of seeing the original Lion King in the theater and accept the remake."

    My response and I quote "Oh yeah I'm gonna embrace a halfassed soulless CG filled Psycho 98 treatment of a film that actually meant something to me since i was 13" and luckily i didn't pay a dime to see Lion King 2019 in theaters.
    "You killed Captain Clown, YOU KILLED CAPTAIN CLOWN"-Joker.

  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I will jump on the bandwagon that Keaton is the best Batman so far. Christian Bale's Batman is kind of a joke in our house, we run around talking in his bat voice when we are being silly.
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