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Thread: Filmation He-Ro and the Lands of Legend?

  1. #1
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    Filmation He-Ro and the Lands of Legend?

    So I just found out that Filmation worked on a Powers of Grayskull tie-in set in Preternia called He-Ro and the Lands of Legend.

    He-Ro had a radically different animation look, as did King Hiss. And beyond Mattel’s docs which had He-Ro’s allies as Sharella the Jungle Warrior and Eldor, Filmation had a desert nomad named Kara who could transform into the element-controlling Leandra. Maybe Leandra is He-Ro’s baby mother (and King Grayskull’s daughter).

    Designs of these not only exist but there are surviving cels. And Mattel has made little references to them. Their He-Ro Son of He-Man logo was based on the logo for He-Ro and the Lands of Legends.

    How cool would it be to see the two 5.5 lines S7 has done come together? I just always wanted an alternate King Hiss.

  2. #2
    master of accessories facet's Avatar
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    Never seen these could you send some of these pics on this thread.

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    So here’s the gist from what I can tell...

    After Powers of Grayskull was aborted, Filmation kept trying to develop a cartoon.

    The King Hiss design (used in Filmation MOTU newspaper strips) became a comic sidekick named Sly-Mee. They replaced the Snakemen with Sauroids led by Horrorsaur. References to Eternia were dropped. Tons of comic sidekicks added. They kept the robot dinosaurs (called Chromosaurs) and He-Ro’s transformation chant but his secret identity became Jak. After leaving the jungle, he meets a woman with similar powers, Kara/Leadra who is even more powerful. She comes from a Mad Max nomadic desert tribe in diesel vehicles. They have a stormy relationship.

    There are SOOOO MANY SIDEKICKS. He-Ro has 3 wizards who each give him part of their powers. There’s a half tree, half monkey and an Ogre named Kyle. Leadra also has a supporting cast.

    The villains are Horrorsaur, Sly-Mee (who’s incompetent) and a bunch of odd little cartoon sidekicks.

    The whole bible for the show goes on and on about rocket powered trees, magic disembodied brains, an ecology moral basis, He-Ro’s high tech urban jungle city and Leadra’s Mad Max nomad tribe.

    From what I can tell, Universal and/or Mattel own all of this. It’s a wild MOTU spin-off very loosely based on Powers of Grayskull.

    Here’s a short album:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/zcEFfxI

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    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Oh wow. Obviously I'd heard of He-Ro before, but never this. Thanks for posting.

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    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    This is so interesting, I always love finding out about stuff which never came to be.

    I've never heard of this before ever on this site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    He-Ro had a radically different animation look, as did King Hiss.
    But there is no King Hiss in "Hero Land of Legend". I know one fan who was very excited about a cartoon King Hiss. But James debunked it.

    And beyond Mattel’s docs which had He-Ro’s allies as Sharella the Jungle Warrior and Eldor, Filmation had a desert nomad named Kara who could transform into the element-controlling Leandra. Maybe Leandra is He-Ro’s baby mother (and King Grayskull’s daughter).
    Not sure what King Grayskull has to do with any of this? Because Mattel 1987 He-Ro (POG) is not same as this Filmation 1986 Hero (Land of Legend). So it's not maybe "beyond" something, as like adding to it. But a complete different take with different setting and characters.

    Designs of these not only exist but there are surviving cels. And Mattel has made little references to them. Their He-Ro Son of He-Man logo was based on the logo for He-Ro and the Lands of Legends.
    Where did you hear the part about cels? So far there's only this booklet found.
    Mattel Classics didn't actually know about Hero Land of Legend. So they weren't referencing it.
    They had 1988 version of He-Ro, which so far has not been made public, but Danielle talked about it in this thread, when some fans got to read it. And in that they had the Hero logo, with added hyphen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orko's Magic Hat View Post
    This is so interesting, I always love finding out about stuff which never came to be.

    I've never heard of this before ever on this site.
    There's a thread dating back to 2014 discussing it. In the vintage section.

    When James Eatock finally unearthed the booklet, it was featured on he-man.org mainpage as well.
    Last edited by Jukka; July 10, 2019 at 12:34pm.
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    I corrected a bit in my follow-up.

    King Grayskull and He-Ro coexisting is a retcon. The only shared link I’m aware of is that Grayskull was pristine and white in both PoG and 200x’s flashback.

    But part of the retcon as of Classics has been that He-Ro is He-Man and She-Ra’s ancestor (theoretically by way of Grayskull’s daughter) but died before Grayskull. There’s also Sharella (who became the Goddess) as He-Ro’s Teela figure so people have tried to reconcile whether Sharella is also Grayskull’s daughter.

    I’m just suggesting that if LoL gets bashed in like everything else, Leadra could be Grayskull’s daughter since she’s clearly a version of He-Ro’s love interest.

    The surfaced book used cels. Battleram was able to ID Sly-Me as a newspaper King Hiss redesign that got repurposed since Filmation did both.

    I watched the podcast after posting and I think they harp a bit much on the bad ideas. I think Eatock is right at the end that DeTillo and JMS would have fixed things before the series ever aired.

    More than anything, I’m interested in a PoG expansion so He-Ro and Eldor aren’t alone on a shelf. You have Lady Slither, Gladiator, and Sharella as figure candidates.

    The Land of Legend thing might be a separate license from Dreamworks which would conflict less with Mattel’s MOTU plans. (Similar to maybe continuing Princess of Power vintage 5.5s independent of Mattel’s MOTU 5.5s.)

    I think He-Ro, Leadra, Sly-Me, and Horrorsaur are workable action figures. You might be able to wiggle permission to include Sharella, Gladiator, Lady Slither, the Fighting Foe Men or others.

    Big thing I see is: everything PoG related is a bit hazy and subject to competing visions. Had it taken off, it probably would be as separate from MOTU as Vintage POP is. A separate license in the way somebody can license Enterprise or Star Trek Voyager without DS9 or TNG.

    Centering on Land of Legends lets it be a non-competing brand to MOTU and then you can arguably justify anything that was or has become PoG related as being “co-owned” by LoL and MOTU as it theoretically could have wound up there.

    I know the FFM were retconned in for example but they were floating unassigned designs that Mattel eventually decided to set up as enemies of He-Ro’s age.

    I’m thinking very much in terms of how S7 could approach Dreamworks and Mattel with a viable “What if...?” 5.5 line. If it was potentially part of PoG, it could potentially be part of a LoL license since LoL was cannibalized from PoG.

    Just imagine LoL took off and ended up using all the discarded PoG concepts and floating unused MOTU stuff.

    So if you’re going to imagine LoL had happened, you might as imagine it as better than the LoL bible presented it and as this successful late 80s show where all the PoG stuff and leftover unproduced MOTU stuff (minus Horde symbols, maybe, for licensing reasons) winds up getting folded in.

    And you can back that up in ways that S7 can’t do with MOTU and has trouble doing with PoG. Because if LoL is handled more as its own thing, minicomics become an option. It’s not part of the MOTU license.

    There is kind of an easy out in all of this to keep it ambiguously connected if all the MOTU stuff has to be cut: He-Ro in Classics was transported to Eternia from another world. Maybe that world was Legend. And you just run with LoL as a Grayskull prequel.

    It would be insane to adhere to the design docs as written but you could use them as a jumping off point and it could benefit Mattel/Dreamworks because you’d be building up something of little value while teasing the MOTU connection.

    You could arguably do the same thing with a King Arthur and the Knights of Justice license (another 5.5 line and they had a Slime Pit which had Hordak’s face on it) but LoL lets you play it more like New Adventures as a radically different spinoff that’s still probably in continuity. As opposed to KoJ where I imagine you’d be doing more of a loose MOTU figure and gimmick style and if you get really decadent maybe you hint that Lord Slither is a Snakeman or you introduce a new character who looks like a Hordak repaint to explain whose face was on Morgan le Fey’s Slime Pit.
    Last edited by Cobrala; July 11, 2019 at 03:14am.

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    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Just a quick note:

    https://battleramblog.com/king-hiss-...nake-men-1986/

    Jukka co-wrote this, including the part talking about the newspaper design and the He-Ro pitch. Danielle and Dusan and James Eatock did a lot of prior research on this. Personally I haven't done a ton of research on the topic of the He-Ro pitch, or on the Newspaper strips. Just for the record!
    Last edited by Lich Leech; July 11, 2019 at 03:26pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lich Leech View Post
    Just a quick note:

    https://battleramblog.com/king-hiss-...nake-men-1986/

    Jukka co-wrote this, including the part talking about the newspaper design and the He-Ro pitch. Danielle and Dusan and James Eatock did a lot of prior research on this. Personally I haven't done a ton of research on the topic of the He-Ro pitch, or on the Newspaper strips. Just for the record!
    Incidentally, the concept “Plant Man” King Hiss strikes me as being Evil Seed.

    Cartoon Evil Seed used a disguise. Filmation naturally would have toned down the character. Later versions of Evil Seed resemble that figure design.

    I think King Hiss was probably reworked from Evil Seed including the stuff about “heroic disguise” to capitalize on G.I.Joe’s popularity, which is why Evil Seed never got a vintage figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    Incidentally, the concept “Plant Man” King Hiss strikes me as being Evil Seed.

    Cartoon Evil Seed used a disguise. Filmation naturally would have toned down the character. Later versions of Evil Seed resemble that figure design.

    I think King Hiss was probably reworked from Evil Seed including the stuff about “heroic disguise” to capitalize on G.I.Joe’s popularity, which is why Evil Seed never got a vintage figure.
    First time I've ever heard anyone try and connect Evilseed to King Hiss.

    Evilseed was a Filmation created character.

    King Hiss is by Mattel.
    And judging by the vast and varied different concepts Mattel went through, there doesn't look to be connection to Evilseed. If you mean with "later versions of Evil Seed resemble..." about 200x versio?. That design choise decades later came from the need to visually re-work any existing Filmation-created character (hence Marzo and Evilseed don't look like their counterparts in older cartoon. Apparently the people at MYP could use the characters, but they couldn't look like the old ones. Other people may have more info on this..)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    First time I've ever heard anyone try and connect Evilseed to King Hiss.

    Evilseed was a Filmation created character.

    King Hiss is by Mattel.
    And judging by the vast and varied different concepts Mattel went through, there doesn't look to be connection to Evilseed. If you mean with "later versions of Evil Seed resemble..." about 200x versio?. That design choise decades later came from the need to visually re-work any existing Filmation-created character (hence Marzo and Evilseed don't look like their counterparts in older cartoon. Apparently the people at MYP could use the characters, but they couldn't look like the old ones. Other people may have more info on this..)
    Filmation was working from notes far in advance. Which is why you wound up with Horde Snakemen and Colonel Blast in She-Ra instead of Rio Blast.

    They had access to early design notes. The early designs for King Hiss’ gimmick were for a plant based character who looks to be an inspiration for 200x and MOTUC Evil Seed.

    I think Filmation characters can be a window into Mattel’s design process because Filmation was working from concept art months or years ahead of the toys.

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    Designs of these not only exist but there are surviving cels.
    Eh? There are no cels. Just the concept art and whatever design sketches they may have done.

    After Powers of Grayskull was aborted, Filmation kept trying to develop a cartoon.

    From what I can tell, Universal and/or Mattel own all of this. ItÂ’s a wild MOTU spin-off very loosely based on Powers of Grayskull.
    By the looks of things, Land of Legends is a reworked version of POG that cuts all ties to MOTU.

    Some of the development material may reside in one of the warehouses where the Filmation material is stored (which Universal has access to, not Mattel), BUT it may also be possible that it was sold to collectors/animation art sellers.
    Also, keep in mind that it wouldn't be easy to check as one of the warehouses is in China.

    The surfaced book used cels.
    Nope.

    The Land of Legend thing might be a separate license from Dreamworks which would conflict less with MattelÂ’s MOTU plans.
    There are no licenses for shows that never got made.

    So if youÂ’re going to imagine LoL had happened, you might as imagine it as better than the LoL bible presented it and as this successful late 80s show where all the PoG stuff and leftover unproduced MOTU stuff (minus Horde symbols, maybe, for licensing reasons) winds up getting folded in.
    Huh?

    There is kind of an easy out in all of this to keep it ambiguously connected if all the MOTU stuff has to be cut: He-Ro in Classics was transported to Eternia from another world. Maybe that world was Legend. And you just run with LoL as a Grayskull prequel.
    There'd be absolutely no point of doing that.

    Incidentally, the concept “Plant Man” King Hiss strikes me as being Evil Seed.

    Cartoon Evil Seed used a disguise. Filmation naturally would have toned down the character. Later versions of Evil Seed resemble that figure design.

    I think King Hiss was probably reworked from Evil Seed including the stuff about “heroic disguise” to capitalize on G.I.Joe’s popularity, which is why Evil Seed never got a vintage figure.
    It's not. Evil Seed has absolute zero connections with King Hiss development.
    Brings doom to MOTUC with cel accuracy.

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    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    I corrected a bit in my follow-up.

    King Grayskull and He-Ro coexisting is a retcon. The only shared link I’m aware of is that Grayskull was pristine and white in both PoG and 200x’s flashback.
    Tongue in cheek: can you retcon something that never really made it to canon in the first place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    Tongue in cheek: can you retcon something that never really made it to canon in the first place?
    Why not? Mattel’s been doing it for 10 years.

    As to the prior comment, copyright exists from the moment something is in a fixed form in the US, post-1978 anyway. There used to be a publication requirement which is how you got ashcans and older unpublished works getting new copyrights like Mark Twain’s books, unfinished or using unpublished drafts. Publication is useful for an affirmative defense but leaking counts as well if they want an affirmative defense now.

    A pitch document like the one Eatock showed is “fixed form” and if Filmation owned it, it went wherever Filmation’s rights went.

    So anything Filmation developed is likely intellectual property of Dreamworks and/or Mattel depending on contracts.

    That’s how we get stuff like He-Ro II.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    and if Filmation owned it, it went wherever Filmation’s rights went
    Legalities are a myriad of tangled web. So not sure such an oversimplified sentence is accurate for a very complex matter.

    Filmation made within their righs those two specials ”The Greatest Adventures of All” and ”Skeletor’s Revenge”, as well as Orko commercial bumpers for their episodes. So why then those were not included in DVD releases? Why couldn’t they be used?
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    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    As to the prior comment, copyright exists from the moment something is in a fixed form in the US, post-1978 anyway.
    Then go and search through US copyright database.

    That’s how we get stuff like He-Ro II.
    Which was made before Mattel secured Filmation rights...
    Brings doom to MOTUC with cel accuracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    Legalities are a myriad of tangled web. So not sure such an oversimplified sentence is accurate for a very complex matter.

    Filmation made within their righs those two specials ”The Greatest Adventures of All” and ”Skeletor’s Revenge”, as well as Orko commercial bumpers for their episodes. So why then those were not included in DVD releases? Why couldn’t they be used?
    Because quality transfers couldn’t be located?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbot View Post
    Then go and search through US copyright database.



    Which was made before Mattel secured Filmation rights...
    Copyrights do not require registration. Most copyrighted works aren’t in any database.

  18. #18
    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    Wow looks different in animation style and designs.

    Never knew of this existence.
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