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Thread: Origins: Why the Hate?

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_WARLORD View Post
    I don't see how a new 200X line could be done without each figure costing at least 50 bucks a piece. There would be unique tooling on practically every single figure. Some collectors are fine with paying that much for a 6" figure, but there's no way that would fly at retail. And if Mattel sold them directly to consumers on line, they'd probably produce less, and therefore have to sell them for about 80+ bucks. Not many people would want to start a new line at that price.

    I'm not trying to be a wet blanket....I'm just basing that on years of collecting and watching the market.

    All that said, I would love a line of decently articulated, non-posed, non-hunch backed 200X figures, if they were only 15-20 bucks a piece. I just don't see how that's possible.
    A 200X collector's line, that was based entirely on the MYP animation guides, would definitely get my money!

    For me, there was a huge disparity between the show and the figures... I always wanted the version of He-Man that was on the screen, not the malformed Quasimodo on my shelf.



    Quote Originally Posted by heavy-eternium View Post
    The vintage or now the origins style is the ultimate MOTU style .
    while l loved the 200x or classics styles ,I always felt they were borrowed styles . It's great to see the brand in other desings but the vintage look is the own style of MOTU .

    It is important to have a own styles , not all brands have one ,Barbie ,GiJoe ,Lego,Funko are a few examples.

    I think the vintage style is so iconic and famous that Mattel should take aventage of it producing figures based on celebrites or characters from other brands in the vintage/Origins style following the way of Masters of WWE
    It could be the next Funko
    This is very true.

    Look at how many knock-off versions of "MOTU" came out in the 80's that tried to compete with Mattel's success.

    I think REMCO became the most successful, but still paled in comparison to the superior He-Man figures.
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  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavy-eternium View Post
    The vintage or now the origins style is the ultimate MOTU style .
    while l loved the 200x or classics styles ,I always felt they were borrowed styles . It's great to see the brand in other desings but the vintage look is the own style of MOTU .

    It is important to have a own styles , not all brands have one ,Barbie ,GiJoe ,Lego,Funko are a few examples.

    I think the vintage style is so iconic and famous that Mattel should take aventage of it producing figures based on celebrites or characters from other brands in the vintage/Origins style following the way of Masters of WWE
    It could be the next Funko
    I'd love that, but Mattel's brand catalog is pretty much nonexistent nowadays outside of Pixar and Harry Potter, which both seem to pegwarm.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooperScoop View Post
    I'd love that, but Mattel's brand catalog is pretty much nonexistent nowadays outside of Pixar and Harry Potter, which both seem to pegwarm.
    I don't quite understand this. Mattel has no brands and IPs at their disposal? Or did I read your post wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    I don't quite understand this. Mattel has no brands and IPs at their disposal? Or did I read your post wrong?
    They don't have all that many big licenses nowadays, especially not ones that would translate well to MOTU form. Like, they have their in house licenses, but no superhero licenses, no Star Wars, no Golden Girls, and because these are child targeted action figures, they can't like do what Funko did for their 5.5 figures unless they're willing to sell them as adult collectibles, which I doubt they are.

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_WARLORD View Post
    I don't see how a new 200X line could be done without each figure costing at least 50 bucks a piece. There would be unique tooling on practically every single figure. Some collectors are fine with paying that much for a 6" figure, but there's no way that would fly at retail. And if Mattel sold them directly to consumers on line, they'd probably produce less, and therefore have to sell them for about 80+ bucks. Not many people would want to start a new line at that price.

    I'm not trying to be a wet blanket....I'm just basing that on years of collecting and watching the market.

    All that said, I would love a line of decently articulated, non-posed, non-hunch backed 200X figures, if they were only 15-20 bucks a piece. I just don't see how that's possible.
    It wouldn't cost $50 a piece if Mattel did it and sold it in brick and mortar stores with a reasonable run. The Super7 figures cost $50 because the runs are small. NECA is able to do TMNT at 2 for $50 at Target. Marvel Legends accomplishes some very detailed figures PARTICULARLY at the $25 pricepoint. McFarlane does detailed 7 inch figures at $20 by operating in volume and not having investors to feed or big overhead.

    Maybe 200x isn't the way to go. Maybe something more like Mondo or Sideshow designs is. More detailed designs don't cost more money on a big run. My bigger point is: designs of iconic characters new to 6-7 inch with premium decos as two packs in an electronics section for $50 to avoid cannibalizing Origins while hitting the market Origins doesn't appeal to.

    With 200x at least, Mattel has a wealth of spare tooling that only customizers have assembled as figures. They can replicate the work of people like He-Bro, up the paint apps and sculpted detail, and churn out 20k of each set to get unit prices down, which Super7 can't do.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    I think these are an easy step backwards from Classics. These seem to be some weird cross between appealing to a collector (though Classics was more appealing due to the detail) and kids (who know nothing of Masters of the Universe).

    I just wish Classics had gotten the vintage package treatment that these are getting.
    I approve this post.



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    Quote Originally Posted by hawanja View Post
    I think anybody who doesn't like these is on crack, because Origins looks awesome.
    Im not entirely convinced yet.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post
    It wouldn't cost $50 a piece if Mattel did it and sold it in brick and mortar stores with a reasonable run. The Super7 figures cost $50 because the runs are small.
    Oh, I agree totally.

    If Mattel wanted to go all-in on 200X styles again, they could be decently priced at retail. Since Mattel saw that line as a failure, they probably wouldn't go in that direction.

    Then again, ya just never know. Who would have thought Classics would ever happen? Who saw Origins or MCX MOTU coming?
    Last edited by DC_WARLORD; April 10, 2020 at 04:58pm.
    Odd Man Out

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    I approve this post.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/111ebonMs90YLu/giphy.gif

    - - - Updated - - -



    Im not entirely convinced yet.

    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...7&d=1586536029
    He doesn't look like that. At all.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToyCulture View Post
    I approve this post.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/111ebonMs90YLu/giphy.gif

    - - - Updated - - -



    Im not entirely convinced yet.

    https://www.he-man.org/forums/boards...7&d=1586536029
    Those two faces aren't even remotely similar. I guess they have similar expressions, but the faces themselves don't look similar at all.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawanja View Post
    I think anybody who doesn't like these is on crack, because Origins looks awesome. Feel free to not buy them, more for the rest of us.
    I donít understand the appeal of these to adult collectors at all. They arenít truly vintage, and if I wanted updates or improvements I got those in the Classics line. Iím assuming children are the target market for these, and thats a good thing. The brand needs new generations. As an adult collector if I wanted vintage, Iíd want vintage, not these. I already got improved MotU figures in a collection that started twelve years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    I think these are an easy step backwards from Classics. These seem to be some weird cross between appealing to a collector (though Classics was more appealing due to the detail) and kids (who know nothing of Masters of the Universe).

    I just wish Classics had gotten the vintage package treatment that these are getting.
    Yeah. I understood that Classics didnít have the budget for the packaging per Scottís videos, but that is the only thing about the Classics run that Iíd change. I was hoping weíd get more of the Ultimates line figures to get more of the cardinal A listers reissued on vintage card. The Origins line seems to like an attempt by suits who donít really understand the adult collector market. Of course these may not be for that market, and thatís cool, but donít be upset if we donít buy them.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJOLNIR View Post
    I donít understand the appeal of these to adult collectors at all.
    Donít assume all ďadult collectorsĒ want they same thing. I, personally, donít like hyper-detail and super articulation. I like my toys to be toys.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJOLNIR View Post
    I donít understand the appeal of these to adult collectors at all. They arenít truly vintage, and if I wanted updates or improvements I got those in the Classics line. Iím assuming children are the target market for these, and thats a good thing. The brand needs new generations. As an adult collector if I wanted vintage, Iíd want vintage, not these. I already got improved MotU figures in a collection that started twelve years ago.
    Absolutely agree on the generations thing. MOTU dies with us unless kids get into the Netflix stuff and Origins.

    As for adult collectors: both Vintage and Classics are ridiculously expensive at this point. I missed the boat on Classics and there is definitely no going back. I'm not paying $200 for a Fisto. Origins is coming along at just the right time and price point -- $15/fig! -- for me. Plus, I love the vintage aesthetic with better articulation thing quite a bit. As cool as Classics are, that vintage body shape is a part of MOTU's thing, I think.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavy-eternium View Post
    The vintage or now the origins style is the ultimate MOTU style .
    while l loved the 200x or classics styles ,I always felt they were borrowed styles . It's great to see the brand in other desings but the vintage look is the own style of MOTU .

    It is important to have a own styles , not all brands have one ,Barbie ,GiJoe ,Lego,Funko are a few examples.

    I think the vintage style is so iconic and famous that Mattel should take aventage of it producing figures based on celebrites or characters from other brands in the vintage/Origins style following the way of Masters of WWE
    It could be the next Funko
    Agree, the MOTU action stance/pose is so iconic and that is what Origins is banking into and really should be retained at all times (Funko Savage World and DC Primal and Super7 Neo Vintage did bank on that recently and drawn a lot of interest). In perspective the Classics borrowed a lot of that look, muscles and all with the right proportions and that may contribute to its success too.

    Again, I don't really see much hate(real ones) but more of a matter of perspective and the usual criticism.



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  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcope View Post
    Don’t assume all “adult collectors” want they same thing.
    Fair enough, but your statement also applies to Hawanja’s post as well.

    As far as toys being toys my daughter and nephews loved playing with their Classics figures. They are fairly durable except for the few clear plastic figures and a couple complaints about them toppling off shelves and breaking legs that I have read about. None of the four kids in my life ever broke a Classics figure or vehicle. They had them in the tub, at the beach, at the park, and all over the yard and the house. I hear you regarding the higher end figures like the Mondo items for sure but the Classics figures are very much toys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kernunrex View Post
    Absolutely agree on the generations thing. MOTU dies with us unless kids get into the Netflix stuff and Origins.

    As for adult collectors: both Vintage and Classics are ridiculously expensive at this point. I missed the boat on Classics and there is definitely no going back. I'm not paying $200 for a Fisto. Origins is coming along at just the right time and price point -- $15/fig! -- for me. Plus, I love the vintage aesthetic with better articulation thing quite a bit. As cool as Classics are, that vintage body shape is a part of MOTU's thing, I think.
    I feel you. I didn’t get into Classics until 2012, and it was a costly endeavor for me. It would be insane to start now.

    That’s why I mentioned the Ultimates. It was a great way for newcomers to get the Classics A listers at a fair price, but offering something new to long time collectors. I think the Ultimates could have keep going for the bulk of the original line up.

    As far as Vintage, I agree that the true vintage figures are just as expensive as the Classics updates. What I meant was I think Origins would sell better to both kids and adults if it was released as dead on accurate vintage. Hasbro has been doing well with their Star Wars Retro and vintage G1 Transformers lines (though there was some alterations to 2 figures which , to my point, caused a lot of grumbling).

    But I love the idea ok kids getting into MotU again. Seeing them on shelves, maybe under Christmas trees, etc.
    Last edited by MJOLNIR; April 11, 2020 at 03:29pm.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJOLNIR View Post
    Thatís why I mentioned the Ultimates. It was a great way for newcomers to get the A listers at a fair price, but offered something new to long time collectors. I think the Ultimates could have keep going for the bulk of the original line up.

    As far as Vintage, I agree that the true vintage figures are just as expensive as the Classics updates. What I meant was I think Origins would sell better to both kids and adults if it was released as dead in accurate vintage. Hasbro has been doing well with their Star Wars Retro and vintage G1 Transformers lines (though there was some alterations to 2 figures which , to my point, caused a lot of grumbling).
    Oh yeah, if the Ultimates had continued and re-released all the core characters, I would've been all over that in a second and would've been quite happy. I can live without a Plundor figure, but I gotta have me some Beast Man.

    I'll be curious to see how Origins does with kids. I've heard the WWEternia line is doing well. It's possible that was a brilliant move on Mattel's part to ease kids into a pure MOTU line after getting them hooked on a known quantity like wrestling. I also really dig the mix-and-match aspects; being able to easily swap heads, arms, legs, torsos, etc is pretty darn fun and I can picture kids getting a kick out that too. Actually, I know my daughters have with the WWE guys so far.

  16. #516
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    Given a choice, I would rather have CLASSICS come back, and be launched at retail. There are loads of people who discovered the line late, and they would be very happy to find these figures at reasonable prices. And many other collectors either missed figures, or may want doubles, so they would be drawn in, also.

    But that's not gonna happen, so I'll settle for Origins. The lower price is a great selling point, and they look kind of fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_WARLORD View Post
    Given a choice, I would rather have CLASSICS come back, and be launched at retail. There are loads of people who discovered the line late, and they would be very happy to find these figures at reasonable prices. And many other collectors either missed figures, or may want doubles, so they would be drawn in, also.

    But that's not gonna happen, so I'll settle for Origins. The lower price is a great selling point, and they look kind of fun.
    Yes, that would be optimal for a new generation of course. But it would not benefit the "small" collector base here since the small pot here already owns all Motuc. I mean how many castle Grayskull classics were created? Around 2k only, right? The classics line was very niche and felt like they were a hidden kept secret amongst hardcore collectors. It had no chance ever to become big without the international retail and marketing.
    Either way, a rerun of Motuc is not gonna happen.
    As for now, we can be thankful that Mattel releases MOTU again. What I've seen so far from Motu origins looks great (not as good as vintage of course and not as good as classics either but it's great)
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  18. #518
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    I like this direction because I'm a fan of the look of the vintage toys, but I'm not a fan of the actual vintage toys. Those black bands in the legs kill the figures for me. Even if you get one with a tight band, it's still hard to get the figure to stand well. I've managed to find a few vintage figures that held up well over the years, but very few.

    I think MOTUC figures look great. But the quality was terrible. Bobble heads, backwards shoulders, exploding plastic, white film, flocking held on with water soluble glue, and the worst most common offender: loose ankles that make standing difficult.

    If these new figures are made with good quality plastic that doesn't shatter or develop a white film, have nice and tight joints (especially the ankle joints), and are assembled correctly with all the right body parts in the proper place facing the proper direction, this will be my definitive MOTU toy line.
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  19. #519
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    I donít understand why the sculpts on these seem less crisp on the detailing than even the vintage figures. Like the molds are dumbed down, more rounded. The original 80ís molds looked better. More articulation is nice, but the detailing looks off.

    Man-E-Faces is a good example.

    I wonít be buying these outside of things that could mesh with Classics. After filling a whole room full of Classics stuff, Iím not going to start buying a lesser line. I hope Mattel comes to their senses and produces some more Classics on occasion.

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJOLNIR View Post
    Fair enough, but your statement also applies to Hawanjaís post as well.

    As far as toys being toys my daughter and nephews loved playing with their Classics figures. They are fairly durable except for the few clear plastic figures and a couple complaints about them toppling off shelves and breaking legs that I have read about. None of the four kids in my life ever broke a Classics figure or vehicle. They had them in the tub, at the beach, at the park, and all over the yard and the house. I hear you regarding the higher end figures like the Mondo items for sure but the Classics figures are very much toys.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I feel you. I didnít get into Classics until 2012, and it was a costly endeavor for me. It would be insane to start now.

    Thatís why I mentioned the Ultimates. It was a great way for newcomers to get the Classics A listers at a fair price, but offering something new to long time collectors. I think the Ultimates could have keep going for the bulk of the original line up.

    As far as Vintage, I agree that the true vintage figures are just as expensive as the Classics updates. What I meant was I think Origins would sell better to both kids and adults if it was released as dead on accurate vintage. Hasbro has been doing well with their Star Wars Retro and vintage G1 Transformers lines (though there was some alterations to 2 figures which , to my point, caused a lot of grumbling).

    But I love the idea ok kids getting into MotU again. Seeing them on shelves, maybe under Christmas trees, etc.
    Transformers has done well the last few years under the current brand manager whose whole thing has been summed up as "G1 with articulation".

    I would be a lot less interested in Origins either at the 7 inch scale or with vintage articulation. Vintage styling with articulation was what I wanted as a kid. I didn't want more realistic proportions as a kid. I wanted ball joint and hinge articulation. Even better. These work with vintage vehicles/armor.

  21. #521
    Heroic Warrior ToyCulture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    He doesn't look like that. At all.
    You have a strange definition of "at all". The expression is very similar. Yes, one is blonde, the other is not.

  22. #522
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    I could maybe see buying the Origins figures to leave them MOC (which I normally don't do) and hanging them on the wall for display since the card looks so much like the vintage figures. However, like others have stated, I just wish Classics could continue since that was the best version figure wise I have seen of these characters and am not sure why BOTH lines cannot be produced (Classics for the older fans and Origins to entice new fans).

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Kal View Post
    I could maybe see buying the Origins figures to leave them MOC (which I normally don't do) and hanging them on the wall for display since the card looks so much like the vintage figures. However, like others have stated, I just wish Classics could continue since that was the best version figure wise I have seen of these characters and am not sure why BOTH lines cannot be produced (Classics for the older fans and Origins to entice new fans).
    From what I can tell, Mattel never really considered Classics to be its own line. They just thought of it as an extension of Matty Collector, which crashed and burned spectacularly, so as stated in the NYTF investors video, they're considering this to be the first MOTU line in decades.]
    Also, even if they did return to Classics, odds are they'd just do reissues of the core characters and not get to characters people here want. Even B list MOTU characters don't sell (look at BBTS, they have so many iconic characters they just can't unload, including Filmation He-Man and Skeletor, who are arguably the most iconic versions of the characters). New collectors don't want to get into MOTUC because of its decade plus history and hundreds of figures, the majority of which are really obscure. It's not like the internet doesn't exist, you can easily google MOTUC and see the library of like three hundred some odd figures, so there's no secret there. Starting a new line, especially one with the iconic vintage form factor is probably the best option here.

  24. #524
    Heroic Warrior He-Kal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooperScoop View Post
    From what I can tell, Mattel never really considered Classics to be its own line. They just thought of it as an extension of Matty Collector, which crashed and burned spectacularly, so as stated in the NYTF investors video, they're considering this to be the first MOTU line in decades.]
    Also, even if they did return to Classics, odds are they'd just do reissues of the core characters and not get to characters people here want. Even B list MOTU characters don't sell (look at BBTS, they have so many iconic characters they just can't unload, including Filmation He-Man and Skeletor, who are arguably the most iconic versions of the characters). New collectors don't want to get into MOTUC because of its decade plus history and hundreds of figures, the majority of which are really obscure. It's not like the internet doesn't exist, you can easily google MOTUC and see the library of like three hundred some odd figures, so there's no secret there. Starting a new line, especially one with the iconic vintage form factor is probably the best option here.
    I get it that newer fans don't want to get into classics due to 12 years of figures, but isn't that alot of toy lines? My point is, you could still have Classics produced by Super 7 or another 3rd party and still produce Origins as the main line. Even if the production amount was lower on Motuc and you had to charge more for the figures, the hardcore fans would still purchase them (just look at how much Mythic Legion figures cost and that line is not struggling).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull Guardsman View Post
    I don’t understand why the sculpts on these seem less crisp on the detailing than even the vintage figures. Like the molds are dumbed down, more rounded. The original 80’s molds looked better. More articulation is nice, but the detailing looks off.

    Man-E-Faces is a good example.


    It's hard to tell, but it seems parts of these figures, like the body, arms and legs are recast from original vintage castings, cut up, retouched and re-tooled. The details match extremely well. If it's recast off of an original, the details could have softened.
    Also, maybe the plastic/paint absorbs more light, giving the figure a softer appearance. And the plastic itself could hold slightly less sharpness in detail in exchange for a higher quality feel to the figure.

    But I really think that the final He-Man retail figure will look more like the vintage figure, paintwise, no boot dagger, vintage left arm gauntlet, possibly vintage styled weapons/harness.



    Man-E-Faces might stand out more because his body/head is really a vintage interpretation of his Classics look. The vintage figure has the tubes plug into the chest, and I assume to save on tooling an entire new chest, the Classics took on a Filmation look, with the tubes wrapping around the collar. Now its carried over. Monster has larger teeth and it looks like eyeballs instead of eye pits.

    One thing I'd like to point out is that the bottom-right Man-E has a gripping left hand, and the bottom-center has an open palm left hand. Could be nothing, but I'll take any sign of alt hands being a more regular thing.
    Last edited by toyhandle; April 12, 2020 at 06:32pm.

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