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Thread: Origins: Why the Hate?

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior PwrdOff's Avatar
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    It just feels like Mattel had a good thing going with Classics and threw that away for something decidedly inferior. It does make some sense to launch a new line, since Classics has gotten so bloated over the years and they have never bothered to provide reasonable jumping on points for new collectors, but I would have liked to see a step forward in the figure design rather than just taking the rather lazy route of going back to the retro styling, especially since Super7 is already doing vintage-scale figures that are presumably being sidelined to make way for Origins. I get that the design had to be simplified in order to keep the price low for retail, but if the idea is to appeal to kids why are they going with a vintage look that none of them will have any nostalgia for? And even if the line is successful beyond Mattel's wildest dreams, there is still little chance that it will ever reach the scope or variety of the vintage or Classics lines, so collectors will be investing lots of money buying the same characters they already have, but with little chance of ever getting a complete line.

  2. #102
    Widget sevman's Avatar
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    Origins just looks like a lazy re-hash of old toys that in modern times look deformed and wonky. The added articulation makes them all look like they have super long monkey arms. Even the straight up reissues of the old toys look better, sorry to say. Just look at Origins new He-Man head. That looks worse than the original toy somehow. I sure hope the new Netflix show and any figures based off of it look nothing like origins. This is all just my opinion btw, but it's just how I feel. And I get that this is a line for retail to bring in the younger generation, and that's great, but I can't see them liking those lazy-assed origins designs.
    Last edited by sevman; August 19, 2019 at 11:15am.

  3. #103
    Heroic Warrior Sgt. Slaughter's Avatar
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    Anyone passing Origins off as just rehashes of the vintage figures, clearly hasn't held an Origins figure in their hands. The sculpting, the articulation, the general feel, the posing, the ability to swap parts... All significantly better than MOTUC. Again, I own nearly every MOTUC figure... And within a couple of days of owning the SDCC Origins He-Man, it became my favorite MOTU figure ever. Even though it has less actual points of articulation, it poses WAY better and is much more intuitive. The range of motion you get out of the neck in particular is awesome. And I love that they finally nailed a He-Man head sculpt. The new He-Man head is the best one they've made, far better than the various tries with MOTUC.

    Origins has so much potential. I don't know how anyone can say the Origins designs are anything but MOTU in it's purest form.
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  4. #104
    Heroic Warrior mizterfish's Avatar
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    Mattel is in a no-win position with some of you. I see tons of people complaining about the new She-ra cartoon, how awful the design is, etc, and how itís nothing like the original. With He-Man, theyíre doing a throwback design and people call it lazy. How many complaints have I seen in this forum about classics over the years? More than I can count and enough to make this environment toxic to the casual collector.

    The bottom line is, if you donít like something, fine, but it doesnít make it lazy, stupid or any other negative descriptor, and it doesnít ruin your childhood, your love for the old toyline, or Classics, or anything else.

    No matter what they do, a certain percentage of people will hate it and another percentage will love it. Canít make everyone happy 100% of the time.

  5. #105
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
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  6. #106
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    First of all, OP, there IS hate, don't let people tell you there's not.
    I COULD HAVE SWORN, MOTU fans wanted toys in retail- and not a remixed version for a new generation of kids.

    Well we are finally getting MOTU by Mattel at retail.
    We're getting a Netflix cartoon, movie, more Super 7, more DC comics, etc.
    Great time to be a fan.

    Not sure why the companies even attempt to please this community with so many naysayers BEFORE something gets released.
    Just as bad as Star Trek, Star Wars, and superhero fans IMHO.

    Bottom line is that with all the complaining, you guys BUY, otherwise they wouldn't be making them!!!

  7. #107
    Darkness The Timeless One's Avatar
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    I started out simply having zero interest in Origins figures. I'm sure they're fine. For those who enjoy them: great, enjoy them! In my case, I never cared for the aesthetic of the original figures -- not even as a kid -- and so, I was happy to simply ignore Origins.

    How and when Origins gained my umbrage, however (or rather, where Mattel gains my umbrage with Origins as simply the vector), is when I l learned that Origins essentially comes at the cost of Classics. IE, Classics on pause/hold (and at risk of resulting death, if you ask me) whilst Mattel does Origins. What!?

    And so my interest in Origins went from zero to negative (from dismissive to active contempt). And my attitude toward Mattel has further soured.



    Edit: WHY are Origins threads in the "Classics" subforum? To begin with, and certainly by this point where the line seems to be its very own distinct thing (as if that wasn't obvious to begin with)?
    Last edited by The Timeless One; August 19, 2019 at 02:18pm.
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  8. #108
    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizterfish View Post
    Mattel is in a no-win position with some of you. I see tons of people complaining about the new She-ra cartoon, how awful the design is, etc, and how itís nothing like the original. With He-Man, theyíre doing a throwback design and people call it lazy. How many complaints have I seen in this forum about classics over the years? More than I can count and enough to make this environment toxic to the casual collector.

    The bottom line is, if you donít like something, fine, but it doesnít make it lazy, stupid or any other negative descriptor, and it doesnít ruin your childhood, your love for the old toyline, or Classics, or anything else.

    No matter what they do, a certain percentage of people will hate it and another percentage will love it. Canít make everyone happy 100% of the time.
    This. People complain the new She-Ra show is too different from the original. Now people complain the Origins line is too similar to the original. Ugh.

    For me, I love the new She-Ra show and enjoy the different take. I'm also excited that this new Origins line is similar to vintage. I'm also just stoked there is a LOT of MOTU stuff coming out! New toys, two animated shows, new comics, and a new live-action movie. Enjoy these days!
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  9. #109
    Heroic Warrior mizterfish's Avatar
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    Origins: Why the Hate?

    Regardless of your take on all the new stuff, the alternative is no new stuff at all, and weíd be back in the 90ís or mid 2000ís.

    I choose new stuff. It canít ALL be everyoneís cup of tea, but with choices, there is always a better chance it meets someoneís fancy.

    I was not in a place where Classics was an option for me when it first started, and before long it was too far along to try to start. So I was thankful when Minis went in clearance for half off and I was able to snag all of them. Now Iím thankful they are back. Iíve also been a big fan of the Loyal Subjects line and the Super7 neo-vintage, so the Origins will fit alongside those quite well for a reasonable price. Choices!


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  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Slaughter View Post
    Anyone passing Origins off as just rehashes of the vintage figures, clearly hasn't held an Origins figure in their hands. The sculpting, the articulation, the general feel, the posing, the ability to swap parts... All significantly better than MOTUC. Again, I own nearly every MOTUC figure... And within a couple of days of owning the SDCC Origins He-Man, it became my favorite MOTU figure ever. Even though it has less actual points of articulation, it poses WAY better and is much more intuitive. The range of motion you get out of the neck in particular is awesome. And I love that they finally nailed a He-Man head sculpt. The new He-Man head is the best one they've made, far better than the various tries with MOTUC.

    Origins has so much potential. I don't know how anyone can say the Origins designs are anything but MOTU in it's purest form.
    I have heard that in some reviews. As a long time fan and reader of your reviews I trust your opinion on the figure.
    I agree about the head sculpt. The MOTUC He-Man head sculpt always looked odd, especially from certain angles.

  11. #111
    Widget sevman's Avatar
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    Think what you want, but taking the old designs and just adding articulation and a few more paint apps takes a LOT less design and production work than classics did and a whole lot less work than what was seen in making the 200X line. The lower cost and effort is the reason Mattel is taking a stab at making these retail again. The hope is that the old fans will see these as nostalgic and the kids will see it as stylized like the newest TMNT cartoon. I think they are wrong on both counts but time will tell.

  12. #112
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    If the 2-pack was obtainable perhaps more fans would come on board. Again, I’m so not excited to be dealing with Mattel again. Why they never offered any of their motu sdcc items, other than than that poor excuse of system, is beyond me.
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  13. #113
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I'm not going to wade through page after page of the back-and-forth now, but I'll toss in my thoughts (briefly).

    Yes, I am disappointed that Classics is going on hiatus. I am sure we might see the occasional excusive (repaints and part swaps) at cons (likely PC). There are characters I was really hoping to get, such as Skeleteen, Odiphus, and the Great Black Wizard (among many others).

    On the other hand, Origins looks like a fun, more readily available, cheaper line that could garner the interest that MOTU as a property has largely limped along without for the most part since the 80s. (No, there should not be an apostrophe there, by the way.)

    Origins is the line I wish had been available when I taught Pre-K and read MOTU or PoP stories to my kiddos every Friday. Origins is the line my daughter has been wanting (though she does get to play with MOTUC, which is officially a "shared" collection at the Hartley house now.) Origins is a fresh entry point for new fans, something this property needs for a few reasons. Obviously, new, younger fans means more money from more places, especially if the toys are affordable. Also, this fandom needs to grow and adapt. (Not necessarily the property itself, but the fandom.) A property cannot thrive by feeding on the fumes of aging fans (many of whom seem to be growing increasingly bitter toward their hobby, the people who churn out their products, and the themes and ideas that (honestly) have always been a part of it. (To sum, some of us are just too grumpy, stubborn, dogmatic, and frankly mean to deserve the fun, adventure, and all-encompassing good versus evil that this property has always been about.)

    There is a whole bunch more about good business sense to be written here, but my wife was the business major.
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  14. #114
    Heroic Warrior nicholighkun's Avatar
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    I don't like the new head sculpts, and several things about most of the figures is just off too much for me to like them. That may change when I see them in person, but I doubt it.

    But the straw that broke the camels back for me is the new head sculpt for He-Man: I absolutely hate it. And the fact that only the ridiculously priced SDCC two-pack has it just ****** me off. I'm sure there will be a re-issue, but that's not good enough. The first release of He-Man should have the vintage head, and some vintage armor. And Battle Cat just looks bad. The colors are all wrong, and the over all look is too cartoony. The mask and armor sculpts are spot on (probably just casts of the original), but even on those the colors are off. It should be brick red, but instead it's just plain red. Mattel has poor taste when it comes to color matching and color design imo, and this line is one of the strongest examples of that.

    But like I said, there are other things I don't like. I hate the new head sculpts. They're going for a true-to-vintage feel, except when they're not. I just don't like most of the choices they've made so far, and quite frankly, I'm tired of toy collecting. It's no longer fun to me. I may try to keep up with S7's turtles, but even that may not happen, or else it may not last long with their prices.

  15. #115
    Heroic Warrior DC_WARLORD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholighkun View Post
    ....I'm tired of toy collecting. It's no longer fun to me.
    I completely understand that point of view, brother.

    Rising prices, scalpers, pricey exclusives, short packs, retail stores dropping lines, no more TRU or KB Toys....all of that stuff sucks the fun right out of this hobby. We're trying to collect TOYS....not faberge eggs or limited edition Franklin Mint coins!! It can be infuriating!!
    Last edited by DC_WARLORD; August 19, 2019 at 05:35pm.
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  16. #116
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    A few months ago I went back and read old comments from the beginning of Classics and there were complaints that it was based on the vintage line and not 200x. I'll just leave it at that.

  17. #117
    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhick View Post
    A few months ago I went back and read old comments from the beginning of Classics and there were complaints that it was based on the vintage line and not 200x. I'll just leave it at that.
    Yup, I've seen those too. Lots of people upset that it wasn't a continuation of 200x.

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhick View Post
    A few months ago I went back and read old comments from the beginning of Classics and there were complaints that it was based on the vintage line and not 200x. I'll just leave it at that.
    Change is always like this. Come next fall, many will be on board. Like I said before. People need time. And they will have that, in abundance.
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  19. #119
    Heroic Warrior mizterfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    A property cannot thrive by feeding on the fumes of aging fans (many of whom seem to be growing increasingly bitter toward their hobby, the people who churn out their products, and the themes and ideas that (honestly) have always been a part of it. (To sum, some of us are just too grumpy, stubborn, dogmatic, and frankly mean to deserve the fun, adventure, and all-encompassing good versus evil that this property has always been about.)
    :
    I agree with your whole post, this part in particular. When did collecting (this franchise in particular) become so miserable for some people?


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  20. #120
    Heroic Warrior Mer Jim's Avatar
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    yeah, I would have no interest in starting a new line, so I would have also been neutral towards Origins. But then learning that it finishes off Classics makes me firmly anti-Origins, hoping it will fail so as to provide some shred of hope for a return of Classics, somehow. If it had NOT meant the end of Classics, then yeah, I could have bought a Mer Man and wished the new line well! (I guess I'm not the only one here who feels that way)...

  21. #121
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    And the forums are gonna drastically drop off with nothing new coming out or to get excited for. No new CG reveals and preorders to look forward to.

    Afterwll the origins are basically reissued vintage figures nothing new here to see
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  22. #122
    Heroic Warrior Blaster's Avatar
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    After reading some of the above posts, maybe, just maybe, no one likes the new he-man line or she-ra line because they look dumbed down. Maybe no one also likes them because we all know full well both lines will be cancelled after a few waves. She-Ra...well the show didn't even show Mantenna or Leech, or Octavia, or decent horde troopers, also where the hell is flutterina and most importantly Kowl??? So the direction and PC-ness of She-ra not withstanding no one except little kids really want to get into that line, particularly because the dolls look like children too. If they make action figures of them, maybe a few more will get on board.


    The origins line on the other hand just seems like this was their board meeting... "So uh we probably should do something with this property, see it as how we were able to get so many new kids on-board with She-ra" "Yes we should our stock is crumbling" "Wait didn't we give Super7 the license like a few years back?" "Yes we did, it actually expires at the beginning of 2020" "Hmmm what should we do?" "Well they've been trying to get the Thundercats license for awhile now" "Hey Tim you got a good relationship with Warner Brothers, why don't you put in a good word and see if we can trade the Thundercats license for the He-man license back?, Plus hey maybe we can lend them our molds out in our factory too if they need em".

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  23. #123
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
    After reading some of the above posts, maybe, just maybe, no one likes the new he-man line or she-ra line because they look dumbed down. Maybe no one also likes them because we all know full well both lines will be cancelled after a few waves. She-Ra...well the show didn't even show Mantenna or Leech, or Octavia, or decent horde troopers, also where the hell is flutterina and most importantly Kowl??? So the direction and PC-ness of She-ra not withstanding no one except little kids really want to get into that line, particularly because the dolls look like children too. If they make action figures of them, maybe a few more will get on board.


    The origins line on the other hand just seems like this was their board meeting... "So uh we probably should do something with this property, see it as how we were able to get so many new kids on-board with She-ra" "Yes we should our stock is crumbling" "Wait didn't we give Super7 the license like a few years back?" "Yes we did, it actually expires at the beginning of 2020" "Hmmm what should we do?" "Well they've been trying to get the Thundercats license for awhile now" "Hey Tim you got a good relationship with Warner Brothers, why don't you put in a good word and see if we can trade the Thundercats license for the He-man license back?, Plus hey maybe we can lend them our molds out in our factory too if they need em".

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  24. #124
    Heroic Warrior Stratos*Major's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    You're probably wrong.
    Same

    And Octavia is in it.

  25. #125
    Heroic Warrior nicholighkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_WARLORD View Post
    I completely understand that point of view, brother.

    Rising prices, scalpers, pricey exclusives, short packs, retail stores dropping lines, no more TRU or KB Toys....all of that stuff sucks the fun right out of this hobby. We're trying to collect TOYS....not faberge eggs or limited edition Franklin Mint coins!! It can be infuriating!!
    Honestly, I get the feeling that these companies are looking at us like drug addicts.

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