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Thread: Masters of the Universe Revelation Netflix Series

  1. #7026
    Heroic Warrior King Daddy Bo-Hog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    This is not about exchanging names like labels, it's about redefining the *nature* of Preternia. It was established as He-Ro's era, an actual historical period on Eternia. The Classics bios incorporated this original definition of Preternia and so did the comic books. All of a sudden, Revelation comes along and turns Preternia into the MOTU version of Asgard/Valhalla. That is certainly more than "borrowing a name", as it can be clearly seen that this new definition is meant to replace the original definition, still featuring characters like He-Ro and the iconic Central Tower. It's not a new place with the same name, it's a (fundamentally) modified version of the original one.

    To me, that is definitely not on the same level as Teela's haircut. I could care less about Teela's haircut. I could care less about what anybody promised. I don't even care too much about what happens to He-Man. Revelation's main fault is how it handles Eternia -- a fascinating and detailed fantasy world that has grown over time. As the writer of a new story set in a familiar world, you don't simply step in and redefine an established cosmology. In a world as rich and varied as Eternia, you can easily work *within* that cosmology and still tell exactly the story you want.
    Not everyone cares about Classics or that era and its comic books. Which is the problem... everyone has their own ideas of what it should be. I mean, I get what you're saying about Preternia and all. Had I collected Classics or paid attention to it, maybe I'd feel different. But as a recently returning fan to MOTU, I just don't care about the continuity established during that period. Things change in a property. They have to.

    At first I thought it was kind of odd, since the name itself implies it was historical. But personally I kind of like it, because it seems to be a parallel with real world religious concepts. Not trying to make this religious at all but, I see it as if Preternia is both historical and the after life, just as Eden could be considered Heaven. Heaven & Preternia (the afterlife one) is a return to a time when the world was perfect, or a recreation of it. They are one in the same, beautiful, perfect.

    I'm not saying that's what they were going for in Revelation, but that's just how I think of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    This is not about exchanging names like labels, it's about redefining the *nature* of Preternia. It was established as He-Ro's era, an actual historical period on Eternia. The Classics bios incorporated this original definition of Preternia and so did the comic books. All of a sudden, Revelation comes along and turns Preternia into the MOTU version of Asgard/Valhalla. That is certainly more than "borrowing a name", as it can be clearly seen that this new definition is meant to replace the original definition, still featuring characters like He-Ro and the iconic Central Tower. It's not a new place with the same name, it's a (fundamentally) modified version of the original one.

    To me, that is definitely not on the same level as Teela's haircut. I could care less about Teela's haircut. I could care less about what anybody promised. I don't even care too much about what happens to He-Man. Revelation's main fault is how it handles Eternia -- a fascinating and detailed fantasy world that has grown over time. As the writer of a new story set in a familiar world, you don't simply step in and redefine an established cosmology. In a world as rich and varied as Eternia, you can easily work *within* that cosmology and still tell exactly the story you want.
    I get what you're saying... the Preternia afterlife thing was one of those smaller irks I had with the show. That said, it might just be what the afterlife looks like to Eternians.

    Think of it kinda like The Matrix... so Preternia was really a place that actually happened in the living world. After Grayskull died, his strength and power of will sort of changed the perception of the afterlife realm forever into the world/visuals he was most familiar with.

    So that's how I'm taking it right now. We'll see if the last 5 episodes support or destroy that theory/concept.
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  3. #7028
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblanch View Post
    Not everyone cares about Classics or that era and its comic books. Which is the problem... everyone has their own ideas of what it should be. I mean, I get what you're saying about Preternia and all. Had I collected Classics or paid attention to it, maybe I'd feel different. But as a recently returning fan to MOTU, I just don't care about the continuity established during that period. Things change in a property. They have to.

    At first I thought it was kind of odd, since the name itself implies it was historical. But personally I kind of like it, because it seems to be a parallel with real world religious concepts. Not trying to make this religious at all but, I see it as if Preternia is both historical and the after life, just as Eden could be considered Heaven. Heaven & Preternia (the afterlife one) is a return to a time when the world was perfect, or a recreation of it. They are one in the same, beautiful, perfect.

    I'm not saying that's what they were going for in Revelation, but that's just how I think of it.
    I'm not against having a Heaven/Eden/Asgard etc. for Eternia. Revelation could have left its mark by establishing one *as a new concept* and with its own name. Instead, they used an established concept -- Preternia -- and completely changed its nature to suit their story. By the way, the idea of Preternia goes back to 1987 at least, as it was meant to be the setting for the follow-up toyline Powers of Grayskull.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexApprobation View Post
    I get what you're saying... the Preternia afterlife thing was one of those smaller irks I had with the show. That said, it might just be what the afterlife looks like to Eternians.

    Think of it kinda like The Matrix... so Preternia was really a place that actually happened in the living world. After Grayskull died, his strength and power of will sort of changed the perception of the afterlife realm forever into the world/visuals he was most familiar with.

    So that's how I'm taking it right now. We'll see if the last 5 episodes support or destroy that theory/concept.
    Definitely an interesting thought. Given the fact, however, that the Revelation writers also distorted Subternia into a "hellish" realm, I'm pretty sure they didn't have a complex mystical explanation but simply decided to redefine Preternia. Using familiar names and concepts simply to give new stories some shallow significance is a terrible way of handling a brand -- and has nothing to do with modernizing it or making it accessible for a new audience.
    Last edited by JSElshoff; September 21, 2021 at 05:32am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    Definitely an interesting thought. Given the fact, however, that the Revelation writers also distorted Subternia into a "hellish" realm, I'm pretty sure they didn't have a complex mystical explanation but simply decided to redefine Preternia. Using familiar names and concepts simply to give new stories some shallow significance is a terrible way of handling a brand -- and has nothing to do with modernizing it or making it accessible for a new audience.
    True... somehow Subternia didn't bother me as much. Yes, it had the hellish tropes (which was the idea/concept that the narrative needed at that point in the story), but it's still underground and closer to the core of a planet... which will lead to dark caverns, heat, steam, and lava. Natural stuff that was weaved into our concept of "Hell." So Subternia is still a real place in the realm of the living, just filled with aliens, creatures, and/or beings that can survive within that environment. They just happen to look like our concept of ghosts, demons, and other hellish creatures.

    Again, that's just how I saw it. The back end episodes could support this, break this, or the concept in general might not be revisited again for it to even matter to the rest of the story.
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  5. #7030
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    I'm not against having a Heaven/Eden/Asgard etc. for Eternia. Revelation could have left its mark by establishing one *as a new concept* and with its own name. Instead, they used an established concept -- Preternia -- and completely changed its nature to suit their story. By the way, the idea of Preternia goes back to 1987 at least, as it was meant to be the setting for the follow-up toyline Powers of Grayskull.
    Yeah, they could have. But they didn't. For me, its not worth letting it ruin the whole thing though, even if it did bother me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexApprobation View Post
    True... somehow Subternia didn't bother me as much. Yes, it had the hellish tropes (which was the idea/concept that the narrative needed at that point in the story), but it's still underground and closer to the core of a planet... which will lead to dark caverns, heat, steam, and lava. Natural stuff that was weaved into our concept of "Hell." So Subternia is still a real place in the realm of the living, just filled with aliens, creatures, and/or beings that can survive within that environment. They just happen to look like our concept of ghosts, demons, and other hellish creatures.

    Again, that's just how I saw it. The back end episodes could support this, break this, or the concept in general might not be revisited again for it to even matter to the rest of the story.
    Even though I doubt that Revelation will rectify these issues, I agree that we need to see the remaining five episodes to really come to a conclusion on various issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjblanch View Post
    Yeah, they could have. But they didn't. For me, its not worth letting it ruin the whole thing though, even if it did bother me.
    Sure, if you like the rest of the show like the story and character portrayals, I understand that a "background issue" isn't so important to you. Personally, I don't like the show even outside of how the lore was treated. The only positive thing about Revelation for me is the art, while I find the writing very boring and uninspired. This makes the lore modifications seem all the more unnecessary as they didn't even have a good reason (in my opinion) to change all that stuff.

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    I'm mostly annoyed that we still haven't gotten any hint to when the second part will air, if I'm not mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medea View Post
    I'm mostly annoyed that we still haven't gotten any hint to when the second part will air, if I'm not mistaken.
    I wonder if it might only be in development now as they wanted to wait and see how the fans reacted before finishing the story...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    I wonder if it might only be in development now as they wanted to wait and see how the fans reacted before finishing the story...
    No, I believe it's been mentioned many times in this thread that the episodes have long since been finished.

    I also remember someone mentioning that it had been said that the last 5 episodes would air on a holiday (so we were speculating Halloween or Thanksgiving).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    No, I believe it's been mentioned many times in this thread that the episodes have long since been finished.

    I also remember someone mentioning that it had been said that the last 5 episodes would air on a holiday (so we were speculating Halloween or Thanksgiving).
    Okay, then the wait may not be that long anymore. Even though I have little hope that the second part can still save Revelation, it would certainly be a nice surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    No, I believe it's been mentioned many times in this thread that the episodes have long since been finished.

    I also remember someone mentioning that it had been said that the last 5 episodes would air on a holiday (so we were speculating Halloween or Thanksgiving).

    Yeah last I heard, right after part 1 came out, the only thing that had to be done in the second part was sound mixing. Should be soon.

  12. #7037
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    Okay, then the wait may not be that long anymore. Even though I have little hope that the second part can still save Revelation, it would certainly be a nice surprise.
    The sooner the better.
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    I really enjoyed this show. I can see the issues that folks have with it, and while I don't agree with all of it, I think some of the points are valid. Looking forward to the next set of episodes, and I hope there's more to come after that. I hope they introduce some more new characters as well. The franchise has plenty of great ones, but I always like to see more.

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    Wrong thread, deleting my original post...
    Last edited by They-Them; September 24, 2021 at 11:08am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by They-Them View Post
    This is the first iteration of HM/MOTU that my kids have really gotten into. It certainly made the experience more enjoyable for me. They're too old for toys but if these characters come to Masterverse, I will have a hard time resisting the urge to buy them all.

    Well done, Mattel Studios. It seems some care went into this show; the animation, character design, voice acting, story and music are all top-notch. The intro and theme song get us pumped up every time.
    ????

    What about:

    Quote Originally Posted by They-Them View Post
    The characters and overall tone just seemed somehow off-brand. And very little He-Man!

    It wasnít my cup of tea but Iím glad some people liked it.
    Quote Originally Posted by They-Them View Post
    My biggest gripe (since now i know it isnít a sequel), is I find it a bit boring. I know itís supposed to be for adults and all, but Iím looking for a fun escape. I hated seeing Orko sick and dying. I donít know, it all just made me feel kinda bad I guess, if that makes sense. Iím not looking to be overly negative though, as I can tell itís a touchy subject for some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    ????

    What about:
    I just assumed the post was meant for one of the threads for the cgi show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviews2D View Post
    I just assumed the post was meant for one of the threads for the cgi show.
    Suuuuuuure... that's a likely excuse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    ????

    What about:
    Crud, I posted this in the wrong thread. My bad. Definitely NOT talking about Revelation. I will delete, thank you.

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    I just wish I wasn't basically forced to defend Revelation, to the point of being accused of being a bootlicker, or whatever (despite the fact that in other fandoms I am considered the one who is VERY critical of the shows I watch). Because some people decided to sabotage the show before anyone even saw a frame of content, for their own petty reasons. It's the closest thing I have to my ideal MOTU, and the fact that I can't even go onto other threads, that recent revelation character ranking competition on twitter without constantly seeing people taking potshots at Revelation for no reason makes me feel utterly exhausted. Do I have worst case scenarios about the second half of revelation? Yes! But I'm not going to assume they're canon until they happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverToad View Post
    I just wish I wasn't basically forced to defend Revelation, to the point of being accused of being a bootlicker, or whatever (despite the fact that in other fandoms I am considered the one who is VERY critical of the shows I watch). Because some people decided to sabotage the show before anyone even saw a frame of content, for their own petty reasons. It's the closest thing I have to my ideal MOTU, and the fact that I can't even go onto other threads, that recent revelation character ranking competition on twitter without constantly seeing people taking potshots at Revelation for no reason makes me feel utterly exhausted. Do I have worst case scenarios about the second half of revelation? Yes! But I'm not going to assume they're canon until they happen.
    As a Filmation MOTU fan first and foremost, I am extremely grateful for Revelation. Extremely. And the CG show too. Absolutely. What a time to be a MOTU fan! But it is bittersweet to have these creative entries surrounded by so much negativity and toxicity, especially Revelation. It's a shame.

    Speaking of the CG show, in a thread next door, I do find it a bit ironic that I keep reading the new Netflix CG show, which I enjoyed overall as it's own thing, is so much better than Revelation. I disagree with that assessment, I clearly feel Revelation is better, but that's cool. Who am I to judge? But I guarantee you, if all the specific changes made in the CG MOTU series was made in Revelation that triggers some of them like gender changes, race changes, character changes, lore changes, Ram Ma’am, Teela, Orko, Duncan, Marlena, Grayskull, We have the power... oh man...if this occurred in Revelation the show... Kevin Smith and Revelation would be so slammed for it right now regardless if it was billed as a new interpretation or a followup to the Filmation series. .

    Oh well. What can you do, other than tune it all the best you can, and be happy with what a great time it is to be a MOTU fan. Thank you Mattel and Netflix!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic View Post
    But I guarantee you, if all the specific changes made in the CG MOTU series was made in Revelation that triggers some of them like gender changes, race changes, character changes, lore changes, Ram Ma’am, Teela, Orko, Duncan, Marlena, Grayskull, We have the power... oh man...if this occurred in Revelation the show... Kevin Smith and Revelation would be so slammed for it right now regardless if it was billed as a new interpretation or a followup to the Filmation series. .
    cackling hysterically at the idea of the power sharing being carried over into revelation, honestly I kinda wanna see it regardless of the chaos it would cause

    - - - Updated - - -

    On the other note, though, the two shows can't really be directly compared, since they are two wildly different projects for two completely different audiences. The only thing you can really compare was which one was more successful in a financial sense, and that remains to be seen. Not to mention CGI didn't have to deal with its audience actively interrogating the intentions of the show looking for flaws or ulterior motives, which kids don't tend to do.
    Last edited by RiverToad; September 24, 2021 at 10:33pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverToad View Post
    I just wish I wasn't basically forced to defend Revelation, to the point of being accused of being a bootlicker, or whatever (despite the fact that in other fandoms I am considered the one who is VERY critical of the shows I watch). Because some people decided to sabotage the show before anyone even saw a frame of content, for their own petty reasons. It's the closest thing I have to my ideal MOTU, and the fact that I can't even go onto other threads, that recent revelation character ranking competition on twitter without constantly seeing people taking potshots at Revelation for no reason makes me feel utterly exhausted. Do I have worst case scenarios about the second half of revelation? Yes! But I'm not going to assume they're canon until they happen.
    There may be a share of MOTU fans who bash Revelation without having seen it (which is unreasonable), while most of the criticism I've read actually shows that the person who wrote it must have seen the available episodes. Of course, it's always important to pinpoint the things you didn't like and to explain the reasons why you didn't like them (in short: to offer constructive criticism). Very general criticism is usually not helpful.

    Having said that, critical voices are as valid as approving/positive ones. And why is it really necessary to "defend" a show? It's very important that we discuss our views, compare them, and in the process try to understand and respect each other's arguments. That's why we should discuss the aspects or elements of the show that we like or dislike rather than saying "this is the best thing that ever happened to MOTU" or "this destroyed MOTU". Neither has any real point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    There may be a share of MOTU fans who bash Revelation without having seen it (which is unreasonable), while most of the criticism I've read actually shows that the person who wrote it must have seen the available episodes. Of course, it's always important to pinpoint the things you didn't like and to explain the reasons why you didn't like them (in short: to offer constructive criticism). Very general criticism is usually not helpful.

    Having said that, critical voices are as valid as approving/positive ones. And why is it really necessary to "defend" a show? It's very important that we discuss our views, compare them, and in the process try to understand and respect each other's arguments. That's why we should discuss the aspects or elements of the show that we like or dislike rather than saying "this is the best thing that ever happened to MOTU" or "this destroyed MOTU". Neither has any real point.
    We're all supposed to be MOTU fans who love, support, and want a future for the franchise. These people just bring unnecessary negativity to the community.

    In a sane world on a level playing field, yes, critical voices are as valid as positive ones. But those of us who have constructive criticism have to hold that back as we don't want that to mistakenly add fuel to the fire caused by the chaos bringers. On the scale of support and community well being, I'd much rather see more "this is the best thing that ever happened to MOTU" than "this destroyed MOTU." Sure, both are hella vague, but I'd rather have vague positivity and support than more negativity and toxicity.
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  24. #7049
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexApprobation View Post
    We're all supposed to be MOTU fans who love, support, and want a future for the franchise. These people just bring unnecessary negativity to the community.

    In a sane world on a level playing field, yes, critical voices are as valid as positive ones. But those of us who have constructive criticism have to hold that back as we don't want that to mistakenly add fuel to the fire caused by the chaos bringers. On the scale of support and community well being, I'd much rather see more "this is the best thing that ever happened to MOTU" than "this destroyed MOTU." Sure, both are hella vague, but I'd rather have vague positivity and support than more negativity and toxicity.
    This is what a lot of people fail to realize...

    There are numerous channels/accounts and tons of videos/vlogs/blogs about how awful Revelation is and all of the things that it does wrong.

    Sadly, there are little to no videos or blogs that do the opposite... Why? Because it doesn't generate revenue. The amount of dislike that Revelation has received comes almost entirely from manufactured outrage.



    Should things be looked at with a critical eye? Of course. (I took an entire semester of art critique a few years ago.) But, what happened before Revelation aired on Netflix was not criticism... it was disgusting herd-anger fueled by paper-thin conjecture.

    Could you imagine if today's mindsets and social-media outlets existed during the days of He-Man throwing mountains, pushing moons and pulling chasms closed with a rope?!? It wouldn't have lasted 5 episodes... and this is the problem, creativity gets squashed before it can even have a chance to shine because of the overly loud haters.
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    I find myself acknowledging that a lot of the issues people have with the show can exist, while also shrugging at why they're SUCH a big deal.

    It's not unique to this one show/thing/event, but which things people choose to let slide off their backs and which things people wage war over legitimately confuse and amaze me. Consistently.
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