Well said Rikki, this is my personal stance basically as a whole about every MOTU show since I first saw Filmation as a child, too much camp. Even back then I knew the show was for kids probably younger than me but didn't care. If Revelation was exactly the same I would have been in the Kevin Smiths an idiot! Camp. But I'm not cause rev is awesome so far...
I love Filmation with no irony whatsoever for what it is. I watched it every chance I could until 1990, when some network executive decided I couldn't have it anymore even in reruns. I made it a point to buy those BCI DVD sets the day each of them came out, and they're still probably the nicest DVD box sets I've ever seen for anything, between the presentation, special features, etc. If I had a hand in what that show was, there's honestly very little I'd change; I'm talking, like, "Give He-Man the red squares on his harness" stuff.
I do love it. Might be my favorite iteration of MOTU but I'm genuinely not sure, it depends on when you ask me. There's a few episodes I rarely watch, and when I do it's through gritted teeth. But on the whole, I think it's easily one of the best shows of its era, with very few true peers. There was a sincerity to it that's lacking or missing outright in many shows since.
So when I say, "I don't want something made NOW to be done in the same vein as that show was," it's not coming from a negative place. Just more a place of, "We can do a little more now. We have fewer restrictions, writing has evolved, etc." Back then, so much of what that show was, was due to its restrictions. "Can't use the sword AS a sword, can't beat guys up too much, can't do anything too dramatic or violent"... they worked around it beautifully, no question.
But if we're doing a product in there Here and Now, and we DON'T have those restrictions... why not take advantage of that and flex a little bit in ways you weren't "allowed" to do before? To NOT do that, to me would be a huge waste.
Time has passed, things have changed. And I will ALWAYS go back to Filmation no matter what, but I want to see any new MOTU show in some way take advantage of those facts and those changes, and take advantage of opportunities to do things that weren't possible before. I don't want a clone of what's already been done, I want something that springboards off of that into new territory but remains recognizable as That Thing I Knew.
For me, Revelation was more or less that.
My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
It's what the complainers actually wanted from Revelation, so they'd be wise to read the room. People enjoy throwback products that actually commit to the aesthetics, it taps into their nostalgia the best because they know they don't get much of it anymore on modern telly. A lot of current cartoons are starting to become more simplified again, a lot like they were in the 70s and early 80s too, because they went too far the other way and overcomplicated things, or made things too 'edgy' while sacrificing a moral centre.Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx
Something lighter, perhaps something a little ironic, would play very well with today's jaded audiences. We don't need something to say how miserable the world gets when you grow up and you realise people aren't always truthful. We've seen deconstruction play out too much for Revelation to really contribute anything new to that genre. It's following, not leading. And I'd love MOTU to lead from the front, which is what I'm hoping for with the new CGI show.
Revelation has as much camp as any of them, let's not kid ourselves.Well said Rikki, this is my personal stance basically as a whole about every MOTU show since I first saw Filmation as a child, too much camp.
Yet you still crap on this show....
Not everyone is JADED and not everyone sees the vintage show through rose colored glasses either.
Every cartoon has its faults especially if they were to be rated as though they were all released all at the same time
Filmation and NA would take quite the beating by today's Jaded audiences.
See, it's at this point where I'm tempted to say, "I have little patience for people who can't handle Real Life and need to find happiness by retreating into saccharine-safe entertainment even as grown adults," but that's kind of mean and it's not entirely what I'm trying to say. It's just what my gut reaction is.
If a person's life is SO miserable that their only recourse is finding safety in cartoons, then the fact that Teela was a grouch in "Revelation" is the absolute least of their life's problems. And I would take great pity on anyone who's that desperate for a little slice of happiness. "Revalation" being a 1:1 Filmation clone wouldn't be doing anything of great service to them, their lives, or their mental state, it would only be delaying the inevitable. A better coping skill than raging about cartoons would be finding a good therapist, for those people.
I've had my own battles with depression, and I'm as jaded as they get. I'm not looking for an "escape" from my entertainment, I just want to be entertained. "Escapes" are illusions. "I just want to live in a carefree fairy tale and forget all my problems for an hour" is not much different from people who say "I just wanna shoot up and forget all my problems for a while." Different outlet, same impulse. You're gonna come down eventually, might as well face the reality of things. I am always very, very suspicious of people who say "I can't handle reality, I crave an escape," no matter what escape they choose to indulge in.
People grow up, and you can't go home again. Filmation exists; if people are so desperate for safe, no-edges entertainment as a means of escaping reality, there's 130 episodes of it to choose from, plus She-Ra. Demanding that modern-day entertainment be sanded down to fit into that mold, because some people are "sensitive" and "need an escape", only ensures that we'll never get anything of any depth or substance at all. And that's pretty selfish to want.
And I'm sorry, but I'll never be convinced that the actual audience who DOES want a Filmation clone in 2021 is an audience size greater than a couple of hundred people. Not until I see it with my own eyes, and not on some metric website where people review-bomb as a way of impotently trying to make a point.
As for the CGI reboot, we're of opposite minds because I'm NOT the least bit excited for it. I recognized the MOTU I knew as a kid in Revelation, but all I see in the CGI reboot is a bunch of the same names being slapped onto characters and concepts I don't recognize. Might be okay, but at this moment I don't care about it.
I'm just admittedly a bit befuddled, Cam, how a person who has such open disdain for Marvel movies because they're all-fluff, don't challenge the viewer and don't provide anything besides a completely disposable entertainment experience - all things I completely agree with you on by the way, Cam; you know this - can at the same time be so upset that a new MOTU cartoon wasn't... well... Exactly That.
It's just strange coming from the same person, is all.
Anyways, no, MOTU isn't relevant enough to "lead us all into a new era of Hope" or whatever; not enough people care about it. At the end of the day it's just a cartoon show. They chose to try and do something new with the material for once, and not everybody liked it. Okay. But saying it was "bad" for trying to be more than what Filmation was... well, nah. You should always aim higher than the last guy who had your job did. Otherwise you're wasting your time. I didn't like every creative choice but I appreciated the attempt to do something new without it being a complete - ugh - "reinvention."
MOTU itself has a lot more than just Filmation going for it. Trying to be a little more than just a cotton candy puff piece was one of the smartest choices they ever made for Revelation. I didn't agree with everything they did but I definitely agree with that much.
Last edited by Rikki Roxx; September 14, 2021 at 10:29am.
My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
This is a problem in real life that has bled its way into fandoms. So much division focused on extremes to where there's no room for actual discussion where we can meet in the middle. Instead of being able to talk about the few ACTUAL problems with the show, we have to counter all the raging negativity and trolls.
Rikki Roxx is a great example of comments and discussion. I don't agree 100% with Rikki's comments, but there's a lot I do. Even in places where we don't agree, I understand where Rikki is coming from and I totally respect that.
But all the blind rage and Cl0wnf!sh talking points... miss me with all that.
This is supposed to be a fandom we all love and we're supposed to be adults. With that combination we should be a lot more caring, hopeful, and the ability to properly discuss multiple sides of things and opinions in a civilized way.
Tweeterhead 1/5 Legends Statue Want List: Zodak (200X style), King Grayskull (Revelation style), He-Man 2.0, Tung Lashor, Rattlor, She-Ra 2.0, Sorceress, Beast Man, Trap-Jaw, Kobra Khan
They are professionals with a lot of experience, so they likely know fans won't just accept something they don't like and move on. This current behavior isn't something new in entertainment.
Honestly, I don't know how they could think that killing the main character of the original in the first episode of this "sequel" (after more than 30 years) won't have a strong reaction from fans of that character.
Well then I guess I love you too, buddy. Wow, thanks. That actually means a lot.
I don't expect everyone to agree, sometimes I expect most won't. I just try to be even, and thorough. Very, very... very thorough.
But yeah, wow, thanks. I needed that today. Norm MacDonald died. That's lousy. But your comment picked me back up in a jiffy. Much appreciated. I do my sincere best.
- - - Updated - - -
Well, I can only speak for myself, but my own reaction was, "Huh... alright, let's see where this is goin'."
It doesn't hurt that I already knew it was coming, certainly. But I also could've easily guessed. And even if I hadn't, it's a story. Stuff is gonna happen. So long as it all makes sense in the end, I'm okay. I certainly wasn't going to chuck the whole series in the can after the first episode no matter what happened, anyway. Gotta see how things play out before taking a firm stance either way. So far, I liked more than I didn't.
I thought they made some bold choices, that's all. Some I liked a lot, some I didn't. Some, I'm gonna have to see where it goes before I have any real opinion. But I respect that they took risks and made bold choices, it shows that they're thinkin'.
I just... couldn't be bothered to get annoyed too much about anything they did. Except for TRI-KLOPS'S STUPID HAT! But everything else, even the stuff I didn't love... I really, honestly just didn't see anything that was worth getting very annoyed about. I was more annoyed about the Castle being an illusion than about He-Man dying, honestly. And even that was like, "Eh."
This show was never going to become my "definitive" take on MOTU anyways, I think that helps me shrug off some things here and there. But I certainly didn't feel any strong negative feelings.
Except for The Hat.
My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
Did you really think, though--even for a brief moment--that He-Man wasn't coming back?
Honestly I hope he doesn't become the new Optimus Prime going forward.
Princesses of Power enthusiast
My pleasure! Yes, you are pretty even and thorough... I greatly appreciate that (and I'm sure others do as well)!
Very happy to hear I was able to pick you up after the Norm MacDonald news. We've lost so many great creative artists recently and it sucks. I'm still stunned by the loss of Michael K. Williams.
Tweeterhead 1/5 Legends Statue Want List: Zodak (200X style), King Grayskull (Revelation style), He-Man 2.0, Tung Lashor, Rattlor, She-Ra 2.0, Sorceress, Beast Man, Trap-Jaw, Kobra Khan
No. However, the main character in the original being relegated is still a weird decision to take for the first episode of a "sequel" (after more than 30 years).
I've understand He-Man was an obstacle for the story they wanted to tell, but it shouldn't be a surprise many He-Man fans would be upset.
I think there are degrees of "upset". Some more reasonable than others, depending on the situation.
"This isn't what I would've done, and it's not what I wanted" is fairly reasonable.
"This show is a piece of garbage from A-to-Z BECAUSE I didn't get exactly what I expected or wanted," however, is a bit less reasonable. It ignores the many things the show does well. And it's unfortunately what a lot of people are expressing, in their own way.
My matches, toy reviews, promos and more are on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
I get what you mean. I guess for me it kind of created some tension or anticipation, wondering until the last episode how they were going to bring him back. Then, I loved how they did it. But of course it doesn't work for everyone.
It is just like Star Wars. It is a lose lose situation. If they would have came out and made it exactly like Filmation and just continued with that story line exactly, then they would have been chided for not putting in any effort, regurgitating the exact same thing we had before, having no point because they didn't bring anything new or different. If they would have given those same people exactly what they wanted then those same people would have been upset because it was too predictable and not interesting because they've already seen that.
It's exactly what happened with Star Wars. I know people who hated Empire Strikes Back because Star Wars was just Star Wars, not A New Hope! But when Return of the Jedi came out, they forgot they hated ESB and went to hating ROTJ because the Ewoks were too much for kids. IT'S A KIDS MOVIE SERIES! Years later after clammering and complaining about no new Star War movies, George Lucas releases Episodes I-III. People hated those because they were to modernized, Jar Jar was too much for kids. It wasn't what they wanted, etc, etc. George sells to Disney. They release The Force Awakens. People hated it because it was too much like A New Hope, it was too predictable. It had sold out and put a female lead in to appease the culture. It was obvious that Rey was Obi Won's grandchild, how dare they make a Jedi have kids and make it about Obi Won's relatives, it's a movie about Skywalker's. The relationship between Rey and Kilo was too obvious. Snoke was no Emperor. It wasn't what George Lucas would have done, no one should make Star Wars Movies that went against the Great George's vision (the same guy they spent years demolishing over Episodes I-III)!!! The Last Jedi was then destroyed for Rion Johnson not making exactly what they wanted because it drastically changed the path that TFA was taking. And the Porges were to much for kids. Rose was a useless character. Not everyone can be a Jedi, how dare they. How dare they kill Snoke that fast. Then Rise of Skywalker. It's not the way they would have ended it. Snoke was Palpaltine's clone creation, how dare they. Rey was the Emperor's relation? Come On, that is not right, it's about the Skywalker's, not Palpatine's! She should have been Obi Won's grandchild! Rey calls herself a Skywalker! how dare they, she's a Palpatine.
Everything gets rated as garbage until the next in the series comes out, then we always hear how crappy the new one is and how great the old one was, forgetting how they ragged on the old one.
The most disappointing part for me is that people don't even give things a chance anymore. My own son was going to skip watching Revelation because of the YouTubers ragging on it. But when he finally watched it, he loved it. Too each his/her own. But don't judge something based on someone else's opinion. Especially when the opinions come from YouTubers who have never even watched it. Most of the complaints on Revelations come from one source that keeps getting parroted.
Last edited by Scareglow Rev33; September 14, 2021 at 06:23pm.
This seems to be the general although MOTU seems to be breaking it. Fans are looking forward to the CGI show so far despite not liking Revelation. What they will think when the show drops will be seen soon.
Princesses of Power enthusiast
I couldn't find it above, but was a Part 2 release date announced at Power-Con?
It is true that you cannot please everyone.
However, I don't think extreme negative reactions are unavoidable. For example: The Mandalorian seems to be a pretty accepted story for fans.
Also, I should mention that I enjoyed the Last Jedi. So, I know fans complaints could be annoying, but that doesn't mean these couldn't represent an important part of the audience.
I understand your point, but there are aspects that alienate some people too much to give them a chance.
That is the reason why I never saw She-Ra Netflix series, after seeing the designs. I don't know if it was a good series or not, but the design killed all my interest.
Last edited by Konja7; September 14, 2021 at 07:53pm.
It sounds like those people need a stronger constitution and a more open mind.
Maybe. In my case, I really liked the designs in She-Ra original, so the design changes of Netflix show was too much for me.
Curiously, I don't have this problem with the design changes for He-Man cg. I suspect it's because I'm not so attached to the He-Man Filmation designs (I liked more the designs for 200x or New Adventures).
It was hinted at coming around some holiday and before the end of the year.
Ok, so I did not post when my family and I finished the show, we have been just to darn busy, as I’m sure is everyone.
So here goes. We all liked it.
I loved the animation. I really liked the cult story line. I liked the characters.
I did not like the over reaction in the first episode about Adam. I did not like the castle being fake.
I don’t need to see it again, but we are all excited to see the next chapter.
All in all, this was good, not great. In no way does it deserve the bashing that it’s getting on YouTube. By no means was this some piece of cinematic perfection but it was fun and took it up a notch. I’m ready for a much more adult take on he-man. It’s like Kevin smith tried to do that but would pull back.
I am picking up some revelations figures but not all.
In closing I’ve reached a point in my life where I like different “universes” “stories” and they don’t need to connect to each other. Just like every Batman series is different and has its ups and downs. I look forward to the next tale that will be told.
Comedian on the matty forums.
What?!? How dare they try to make a thread positive??? The nerve!!!
Also, your snarky 'insecure' jab is a bit hypocritical, no?
We need the POWER of the GOOD and the WAY of the MAGIC !!!
**Staunch FILMation lover!!! **** Uber NEW ADVENTURES Fan!!!**
>>Glad supporter of the Netflix Era<<
I've seem certain attempt to silence negative opinions.
It is true that many of the negative opinions can be intense and extreme. I totally understand it can be quite annoying, especially if you like the constantly criticized show.
That said, this thread isn't exclusively for positive opinions. There is already one.
The thing is, you can create positive vibes without taking routine pot shots at the original show, it's successors, or anything that came before Revelation just to big it up, or the fans that, among the outraged, have legit criticisms about the programme and have things to say about it in a constructive manner. You lot lump them all in with the extremists and decree them a 'vocal minority'. They're not. They're on equal standing with those who enjoy it, and their opinions deserve to be heard.
Fans can get their points across about their enjoyment of the show without trying to instigate, unfortunately, you and others like you have just allowed yourself to get so personally involved and immersed in the dysfunctional back and forth that you've lost all sense of that, and your attempts to 'stay positive' about Revelation have only made things worse by enabling further toxicity.
My 'insecure' comment isn't snark or a jab, it's the truth. This whole thing has become a **** measuring contest...who's show is bigger etc. And yeah, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, but the difference between you and me? I'm aware of it. Just own it man.
In some ways, I'm glad Smith did, that's what enabled me to enjoy the bits that I did, frankly I don't take too much stock in what most modern fans find 'adult' as it usually is just a fourteen year old's idea of 'adult' (prime example are those god awful DC animated movies)
Last edited by Cameron Samurai; September 15, 2021 at 06:03am.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote