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Thread: Masters of the Universe Revelation Netflix Series

  1. #8251
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    Good question... if anything, wouldn't the power of the sword have civilized them to a degree, since it did such a civilizing job on Savage He-Man?

    I have to read the comics again to check if there's more info...

    ...but the way at least I understand it currently is, the Sorceress and her chosen Champion's power is bonded to the orb. The power flows through them regardless. But the power can also be drawn and channeled by the sword to its holder, and channeled elsewhere if desired (at Battle Cat for instance).

    I see Adam calling the power without the sword, much like Thor realizing his power doesn't come from his magical hammer. Sure the mjolnir is magical, and he or she who can weird the hammer like Captain America can use its powers, but Thor doesn't need the hammer to be powerful. He has powers on his own. And Adam has realized this too. And maybe with practice, he can hone down the Savage He-Man savageness of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSElshoff View Post
    I'm sorry to repost my question from a few pages earlier, but it's an aspect of the Revelation plot I just can't figure out:

    Why were both Skeletor and Evil-Lyn able to transform via the Power Sword when the sword -- as it was established -- was "just the conduit" and the actual transformation "spark" came from Adam himself?

    If anyone has an explanation, this would be really helpful.
    Evidently, anyone can call the Power of Grayskull if he is holding the Sword of Power and recites the incantation—at least if he is inside of Castle Grayskull. Prior to Skeletor cracking the orb and He-Man calling back the Power, only four people other than Adam knew that. Revelation does a good job of illustrating why keeping this secret was so important. It also does a good job of illustrating what makes Adam unique compared to all of the others who have wielded the Power. They may be able summon a portion of it, but he is the power incarnate.

  3. #8253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Him losing control of his emotions early on (enough to attempt murder) and then working with this same person like nothing ever happened seemed contradictory.
    Come on brother. After watching Moss-Man being murdered by Skeletor in front of his eyes, someone he cared for, that immediate rush of horror and anger towards Skeletor over it, was then relieved by engaging with a very happy Moss-Man in Preternian after-life. By time Preternia was destroyed, it wasn't Skeletor who did it. And there was a bigger picture at play. Stopping Dark-Lyn and her ending of everyone. But you go on and think it's contradictory.

    Either consciously or subconsciously, this just feels like searching, an over increased effort to find faults in as much as you can. It's okay to not like its story, it's okay to hate the story, but the nitpicking it to death to justify it as some sort of absolute disasterous mess is just tiresome.
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  4. #8254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It also does a good job of illustrating what makes Adam unique compared to all of the others who have wielded the Power. They may be able summon a portion of it, but he is the power incarnate.
    This was one of the very few things I liked about the series. Wish they'd delved a little further into why. Maybe next season.

    I would have felt better if Skeletor and Evil-Lyn had only been powered up to a Battle Cat level rather than a full "He-man" level.
    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

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    There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about the power and how it works within the show itself. We have (spoilers):

    -the orb of power is made from the same energy that created the universe, is the universe’s source of magic and flows from Eternia to everywhere else
    -the sword made by ancient Trollan mages acts as a conduit for the power, able to call it forth and also release it
    -the council of elders was able to wield the power (and assign a champion?)
    -A sorceress-like entity may have existed as a Goddess since the beginning of time, witnessing the death and rebirth of Zoar
    -Adam uses the sword to call power and can share the power with a steed of his choosing
    -Adam can call down the power without the sword, but loses control to his emotions in doing so
    -Sorceress Lyn not realizing Adam called down the power without the sword
    -Multiple characters saying that the champion’s power flows only through the sorceress
    -A Sorceress is traditionally created from a ritual by communing with the castle
    -after the ritual, the Sorceress is (usually) physically tethered to Castle Grayskull
    -Champion Skeletor can assign a Sorceress role without any ritual
    -Multiple characters having the power at once (Adam is able to share it with Skeletor and Battle Cat, Evil Lyn retains her power at the same time)
    -dead Preternia heroes can inhabit their empowered forms indefinitely if they so choose (which they do)
    -Skeletor saying Grayskull’s secrets are more vast than he could dream and beyond well what He-Man ever used it for
    -Skeletor and Lyn controlling the dead and the afterlife with the power and able to destroy Preternia, while He-Man and Teela are able to “set things right”
    -the power is greatest when Eternia enters the Celestial Apex
    -no one is forcibly depowered in the entire show except for apparently Skeletor before the Epilogue

    I’m not super aware of how the power works in other iterations of the franchise, but it seems that in Revelation, whoever has the sword has the power can call upon it, regardless of nobility or intent. Seems like a callback to the old stories where whoever had both halves of the power sword could control the universe. Also there is no apparent limit in regards to how many people the power can be shared with simultaneously. Once called down, it doesn’t seem like the power can be taken away without their conscious consent without killing them (and even then, a person may be able to retain some of their power).

    Currently unknown why Skeletor was unable to keep his Skelegod form after being hurled across Eternia, but it could be that if power is granted by the sword when wielded by someone else, then it can also be taken away. So Adam can empower or depower Battle Cat and Skeletor at will, but he didn’t do it for whatever reason until Skeletor was defeated (maybe because that makes it a fair fight?) Or maybe the Sorceress and Champion working together can depower a third user. Lyn was seemingly unable to strip Skeletor of his power until he let go of it himself.

    A Sorceress can appoint a Champion or a Champion can appoint a Sorceress. They can’t control one another and their powers work independently. A Sorceress does not automatically inherit all knowledge and power right away. They can sense some things themselves, but need to rely on tools as well, hence a magical view portal able to show past events when requested to learn about the world. Between that and the star chamber, those who control Grayskull have access to the ultimate reality TV.

    There is a technique to call upon the power without the sword, but it is dangerous to attempt to control the power without the conduit. Adam is able to, perhaps the Elders were able to as well, and depending on interpretation of Lyn’s calling the sword a crutch in the final episode, maybe she has learned the technique too (though perhaps she simply knew that the power would not leave her so long as she held onto it).

    What does everyone else think of how the power works in this show?

    Edit: a bunch of posts were added while I was writing mine, so I see some of the answers already! Seems like a lot of us were thinking the same.

    edit 2: wanted to add that Sorceress Teela-Na was also unable to deny the power to Skeletor or strip him of it after he claimed it.
    Last edited by Pundar; November 30, 2021 at 02:31pm.

  6. #8256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic View Post
    Come on brother. After watching Moss Man being murdered by Skeletor in front of his eyes, someone he cared for, that immediate rush of horror and anger towards Skeletor over it, was then relieved by engaging with a very happy Moss-Man in Preternian after-life. By time Preternia was destroyed, it wasn't Skeletor who did it. And there was a bigger picture at play. Stopping Dark-Lyn and her ending of everyone. But you go on and think it's contradictory.

    Either consciously or subconsciously, this just feels like searching, an over increased effort to find faults in as much as you can. It's okay to not like its story, it's okay to hate the story, but the nitpicking it to death to justify it as some sort of absolute disasterous mess is just tiresome.
    Haha how are you going to tell me to come on when you respond to any critique of the show with why it's wrong?? It's not hard to see how enthusiastic you are about the series so I take your responses with a grain of salt. I do NOT feel like there's a single thing that isn't great about this series, in your opinion.

    It's even better than you've decided I'm "searching" for issues since you've decided there are none. Thanks for the diagnosis Doc!

    So yeah, from guy who lost his control and attempted murder, to "let's be battle buddies". It's contradictory. But lord help them, the writers had to figure out how to get that dern sword in the key slot.
    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

  7. #8257
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I also didn't understand how Skeletor was able to "give" the power of the sorceress to Evil-lyn. Because later in the series they make it seem that the Sorceress is the one with the power.
    The same way He-Man shares the Power with Cringer, and transforms him into Battle Cat. Evil-Lyn was not truly the Sorceress of Castle Grayskull. In order to become the Sorceress, she would have to enter the Tide of Transformation, be accepted by the Castle, and permanently transformed into the Sorceress.

    Since she likely would not have been accepted by the Castle, Skeletor shared some of the Power with her using the Sword. That is why she needed to get the Sword from him. So she could access the full Power herself, instead of just the portion he was allowing her to have.

    Controlling the Castle during the nexus event granted her even more access to the Power, but she was not the Sorceress, just a sorceress. The Castle chose its Sorceress, and it chose Teela.

  8. #8258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Haha how are you going to tell me to come on when you respond to any critique of the show with why it's wrong?? It's not hard to see how enthusiastic you are about the series so I take your responses with a grain of salt. I do NOT feel like there's a single thing that isn't great about this series, in your opinion.
    Dude, your whole He-Man wasn't mature enough in Revelation / those are just Dad Jokes in Filmation explanation or working with Skeletor after trying to kill him complaints have been thin. REALLY THIN.

    It's even better than you've decided I'm "searching" for issues since you've decided there are none. Thanks for the diagnosis Doc!
    No, I haven't decided there are none, and there's plenty of complaints I don't challenge. Just ones I find quite silly and when people don't know their Filmation history.

    So yeah, from guy who lost his control and attempted murder, to "let's be battle buddies". It's contradictory. But lord help them, the writers had to figure out how to get that dern sword in the key slot.
    Battle buddies. lol

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    I guess nitpicking isn't a real thing nor exists on this thread.
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  9. #8259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Since she likely would not have been accepted by the Castle, Skeletor shared some of the Power with her using the Sword. That is why she needed to get the Sword from him. So she could access the full Power herself, instead of just the portion he was allowing her to have.
    I would have though she'd been given more "physical" type power if this was the case. Although, thinking back, I don't remember them showing much of what her new form could do (that she couldn't do before).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pundar View Post
    There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about the power and how it works within the show itself. We have (spoilers):
    You put together a lot of good information here. Besides the points you've already made, I wonder if part of the explanation is just that the episodes have so many different writers taking turns telling the story?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic View Post
    Dude, your whole He-Man wasn't mature enough in Revelation / those are just Dad Jokes in Filmation explanation or working with Skeletor after trying to kill him complaints have been thin. REALLY THIN.
    That "dad jokes" thing was a joke! It was meant to be taken as seriously as the video you posted showing He-man saying one liners. How long of a video could someone put together of He-man being wise, honorable, mature, and compassionate?

    I didn't realize you meant your video to be proof or serious.
    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

  10. #8260
    Evil Warrior jibernish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Evidently, anyone can call the Power of Grayskull if he is holding the Sword of Power and recites the incantation—at least if he is inside of Castle Grayskull. Prior to Skeletor cracking the orb and He-Man calling back the Power, only four people other than Adam knew that. Revelation does a good job of illustrating why keeping this secret was so important. It also does a good job of illustrating what makes Adam unique compared to all of the others who have wielded the Power. They may be able summon a portion of it, but he is the power incarnate.
    So Adam is unique - that is clear to me. And tell me where my thinking is wrong because I'll admit my understanding is a bid muddy and it's been a week since I've seen the show. But Adam is unique in the ways you mentioned, but once he turned back into He-Man, both he and Skeletor were unable to defeat Dark-Lyn. So he's not the most powerful man in the universe anymore, right? Or maybe he still is if you want to call Dark-Lyn and Sorceress Teela not men but women (which of course they are, but I think the old MOTU meant men/women when they said The Most Powerful Man...), but he's at best #3 behind Sorceress and Dark-Lyn now, right?

    I'm sure I'm missing something but that's the way it seems now. Mind you, that's not why I disliked the show as I wasn't really thinking about until reading the page of posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic View Post
    After watching Moss-Man being murdered by Skeletor in front of his eyes, someone he cared for, that immediate rush of horror and anger towards Skeletor over it, was then relieved by engaging with a very happy Moss-Man in Preternian after-life.
    I’m not sure the charging blow was even meant to be lethal, could be more of a take-Skeletor-out-of-the-fight-now kind of thing. If it was meant to be a killing stroke, well, he sure did flub it since Skeletor was able to shrug off being healed, give a history lesson, and shatter the orb all right afterward. But Adam doesn’t have a lot of experience killing at that point, so maybe he did just mess it up after all.

    I wonder if Skeletor can get into Preternia now that he’s been a champion. Or maybe they’ll make him the king of hell or something, but only after he forgets most of his own life except for his name.

    Preternia is such a strange concept. I guess it factually exists but some people think it’s a myth since who but the dead and perhaps the Sprceress has ever seen it? Who is judging actions of souls to see if they are worthy or not? Or does the soul itself know where to go?

  12. #8262
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    So Adam is unique - that is clear to me. And tell me where my thinking is wrong because I'll admit my understanding is a bid muddy and it's been a week since I've seen the show. But Adam is unique in the ways you mentioned, but once he turned back into He-Man, both he and Skeletor were unable to defeat Dark-Lyn. So he's not the most powerful man in the universe anymore, right? Or maybe he still is if you want to call Dark-Lyn and Sorceress Teela not men but women (which of course they are, but I think the old MOTU meant men/women when they said The Most Powerful Man...), but he's at best #3 behind Sorceress and Dark-Lyn now, right?
    She's certainly much more powerful than any version of the Sorceress we saw in Filmation. Just plain old Skeletor getting into Grayskull was too much for her to handle back then and He-man was always needed to defeat him.
    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pundar View Post
    What does everyone else think of how the power works in this show?
    Honestly, I hate it. It's convoluted and seems to do what the writers need it to do to get to the plot points they wanted to establish. I think a film/show works better when everyone knows the rules upfront, and the rules are used in ways that surprise us. But that's just me - I'm not saying it's bad. Just that I don't like it.

    In this show, the power is kinda like Iron Man's suit. Iron Man's suit in the MCU can do almost anything the writers need it to do in the moment. Like if a giant space alien came to earth and said he would destroy the plant unless earth could supply him with a crystal ice cream cone in the next half hour, Tony Stark would be like, "Hey, just so happens I gave my suit the ability to fashion anything from crystals just yesterday. I haven't tested it out but here goes." I'm being ridiculous, but whenever Iron Man saves the day with some gadget we haven't seen before, it just lessens the stakes for me, takes out the tension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    So Adam is unique - that is clear to me. And tell me where my thinking is wrong because I'll admit my understanding is a bid muddy and it's been a week since I've seen the show. But Adam is unique in the ways you mentioned, but once he turned back into He-Man, both he and Skeletor were unable to defeat Dark-Lyn. So he's not the most powerful man in the universe anymore, right? Or maybe he still is if you want to call Dark-Lyn and Sorceress Teela not men but women (which of course they are, but I think the old MOTU meant men/women when they said The Most Powerful Man...), but he's at best #3 behind Sorceress and Dark-Lyn now, right?

    I'm sure I'm missing something but that's the way it seems now. Mind you, that's not why I disliked the show as I wasn't really thinking about until reading the page of posts.
    The Sorceress of Castle Grayskull has always been more powerful than the Champion of Castle Grayksull. She protects the greatest power in the universe, he only wields it. She is the living avatar of Zoar on Eternia, the goddes who gave birth to the universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    The Sorceress of Castle Grayskull has always been more powerful than the Champion of Castle Grayksull. She protects the greatest power in the universe, he only wields it. She is the living avatar of Zoar on Eternia, the goddes who gave birth to the universe.
    I don't remember this being the case in the mini comics or the Filmation cartoon at all.
    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    That "dad jokes" thing was a joke! It was meant to be taken as seriously as the video you posted showing He-man saying one liners. How long of a video could someone put together of He-man being wise, honorable, mature, and compassionate?

    I didn't realize you meant your video to be proof or serious.
    You're adding adjectives there, but how many minutes did we get of He-Man on screen to fairly criticize we got a less mature and wise He-Man? Almost all of He-Man's little time spent was in battle. We definitely got a mature Adam though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    She's certainly much more powerful than any version of the Sorceress we saw in Filmation. Just plain old Skeletor getting into Grayskull was too much for her to handle back then and He-man was always needed to defeat him.
    For me with Filmation, Sorceress often was the wisdom, the source of knowledge. Sure she had magic, but she did call upon He-Man to do most of the heavy lifting. He-Man often didn't know what to do, so Sorceress told him, then he'd have to go do it. They were a team, along with the other masters. I liked that.

    I don't feel there was as much teamwork in MOTUR. I think Teela could have done everything herself. She was certainly powerful enough to, and she's not restrained to the castle anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pundar View Post
    I wonder if Skeletor can get into Preternia now that he’s been a champion. Or maybe they’ll make him the king of hell or something, but only after he forgets most of his own life except for his name.
    ORKO: Skeletor?

    SCARE GLOW: I remember that name. I am the shadow of a ruler who is now the ruler of shadows.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pundar View Post
    Preternia is such a strange concept. I guess it factually exists but some people think it’s a myth since who but the dead and perhaps the Sprceress has ever seen it? Who is judging actions of souls to see if they are worthy or not? Or does the soul itself know where to go?
    Preternia is not an analog to Christian Heaven, but to Norse Valhalla. It is the place for the honorable dead, people who died heroic deaths. Not everyone goes there. As Moss Man explained, most people die and become forests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    The Sorceress of Castle Grayskull has always been more powerful than the Champion of Castle Grayksull. She protects the greatest power in the universe, he only wields it. She is the living avatar of Zoar on Eternia, the goddes who gave birth to the universe.
    Yeah I think her only limitation was being tethered to the castle. Otherwise, I viewed her as being more powerful than He-Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I don't remember this being the case in the mini comics or the Filmation cartoon at all.
    It is from the Rob David run of the comic book. Many ideas in Revelation were introduced there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    The Sorceress of Castle Grayskull has always been more powerful than the Champion of Castle Grayksull. She protects the greatest power in the universe, he only wields it. She is the living avatar of Zoar on Eternia, the goddes who gave birth to the universe.
    So He-Man never was the most powerful man in the universe... oh man, someone lied to us! It's right there on the original package!

    Seriously though, I wish the levels of power had been more consistently applied throughout all the media over the years. Many properties have that problem though. Honestly, I would have loved to have seen a cartoon/movie where Sorceress was the most powerful character. She certainly wasn't in Filmation. And she wasn't in MOTUR either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pundar View Post
    I’m not sure the charging blow was even meant to be lethal, could be more of a take-Skeletor-out-of-the-fight-now kind of thing. If it was meant to be a killing stroke, well, he sure did flub it since Skeletor was able to shrug off being healed, give a history lesson, and shatter the orb all right afterward. But Adam doesn’t have a lot of experience killing at that point, so maybe he did just mess it up after all.
    Hmm. Yeah, perhaps. Definitely food for thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibernish View Post
    But Adam is unique in the ways you mentioned, but once he turned back into He-Man, both he and Skeletor were unable to defeat Dark-Lyn. So he's not the most powerful man in the universe anymore, right? Or maybe he still is if you want to call Dark-Lyn and Sorceress Teela not men but women (which of course they are, but I think the old MOTU meant men/women when they said The Most Powerful Man...), but he's at best #3 behind Sorceress and Dark-Lyn now, right?
    Perhaps this is contradicted somewhere else that I haven’t seen yet, but I was thinking that the reason Lyn was so strong was because she had claimed dual roles as Sorceress and Champion at the same time, and has basked in more of the Apex than any other character. Teela didn’t really defeat her with power (though she is clearly a more skilled hand to hand fighter) but instead won psychologically thanks to Lyn’s chaotic mind and the love and hope Lyn had hidden away in her own heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It is from the Rob David run of the comic book. Many ideas in Revelation were introduced there.
    Yes, which is probably part of the reason why I like Revelation so much because I really liked those DC MOTU comics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Metayer View Post
    Yeah I think her only limitation was being tethered to the castle. Otherwise, I viewed her as being more powerful than He-Man.
    Historically, the Sorceress has been tethered to the Castle, and made an oath not to access the Power herself. In the Mike Young Productions series, the Sorceress asks the Elders for forgiveness prior to breaking this oath, and accessing the Power in order to fight King Hsss.

    This is why Teela is unique, and why the Sorceress hid her destiny from her. She is the first Sorceress who will use the Power, not just guard it. In the same way that Adam is unique. He is the first Champion who does not wield the Power, but is the Power.

    It is not a coincidence that these two are the unique Sorceress and unique Champion at exactly the same time, and that they are in love. It is the fulfillment of their destiny from the beginning of eternity.

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