Masters of the Universe Revelation Netflix Series

I think the biggest crime they commited was that they OP the role of Sorceress for the end of Revelations so that it"feels" that she might not " need" a champion.

That might make for a great story in the future if it's handled the right way....

I understand what people mean about having a sorceress/Jaga/lighthope/zordon type character is an important role in these kind of stories ,I completely agree , and I do wonder why teela-na couldn't have made the same choice her daughter makes , but I don't mind the status quo changing a little and teela and he man becoming a super powered tag team , kinda like superman and wonderwoman ,and it wouldn't be much of a stretch for he man and teela to commune with the spirit of grayskull (maybe king grayskulls spirit was strong enough to survive preternias eradication ?) , Or even zodac? Not to get too fanficcy , I'm just saying , she ra has slightly different powers than her bro , it's not that much of a stretch to imagine teela wouldnt do her mum's job the exact same way ?

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@ He-Metayer:

Originally Posted by He-Metayer

I guess I have always viewed He-Man as being the champion for the Sorceress, with the Sorceress having more power than He-Man, so why would this be different?

I've also always understood the Sorceress as being more powerful. The important difference is that the Teela Sorceress doesn't seem to have any limitations anymore. She can go wherever she pleases and still use her powers.

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@ Ornclown:

Originally Posted by Ornclown

Yeah... the minute DC added Superman to the Justice League, it was a good thing the writers gave the other members "something to do." #sarcasm

It is astounding to me how narrow-minded some people can be while pretending to be some kind of fictional narrative connoisseurs...

"Narrow-minded" -- sweet. It's name-calling time again, it seems. And as usual, it's coming from someone of the "pro faction".

It's amazing to me how defensive some Revelation fans get and how personal they take criticism of the show, no matter how well-founded or factual it might be.

Regarding your Superman analogy, though: Superman had been an established hero for a long time when the Justice League was created. That's why the DC writers had to use him the way he was. Which is a different situation with the Sorceress: She had limitations right from the start, rationalizing sufficiently why she couldn't just overcome every challenge with a little bit of magic. Revelation took away these limitations, offering "the power of choice" as an explanation. That's pretty lame stuff.

I can only judge Revelation based on what it gives me. Being apologetic about it doesn't make any sense, in my opinion. Based on what it has delivered and on how it has treated preexisting lore so far, I cannot give it the benefit of the doubt. The writers might all have wonderful ideas and explanations in their heads that might potentially solve some of the show's logic problems, but that can be said about any bad series or movie there is.

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

[b]I've also always understood the Sorceress as being more powerful. The important difference is that the Teela Sorceress doesn't seem to have any limitations anymore. She can go wherever she pleases and still use her powers.

With the Crystal of Allena with her, and sometimes without the crystal, the Filmation Sorceress has left the castle in Sorceress form before, and used her powers outside of Grayskull before. So it seems it has always been a matter of choice for her. And Sorceress Teela has made her choice.

Now why the Filmation Sorceress didn't come out more to help He-Man in some sticky situations in the Filmation series is just for story convenience, like the conveniences taken in all MOTU shows that many critics seem to handwave unless its Revelation.

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Sidenote: Generally curious. If one checks your posts, the only thread that you've been posting in post after post after post, the one that has your attention, is this Revelation thread for a show that you don't even like. Is this a-love-to-hate-it kind of thing for you?

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

With the Crystal of Allena with her, and sometimes without the crystal, the Filmation Sorceress has left the castle in Sorceress form before, and used her powers outside of Grayskull before. So it seems it has always been a matter of choice for her. And Sorceress Teela has made her choice.

We talked about this crystal before. It is what makes all the difference here. The writers bothered enough to offer us an explanation to supply some form of internal logic.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Now why the Filmation Sorceress didn't come out more to help He-Man in some sticky situations in the Filmation series is just for story convenience, like the conveniences taken in all MOTU shows that many critics seem to handwave unless its Revelation.

In don't handwave conveniences in any series, but it's the little things that can make the difference. During the Filmation, NA, and MYP phases we "understood" that the Sorceress couldn't magically solve all problems and be always present. All these series alluded to other responsibilities and certain kinds of restrictions.

It's only Revelation which is blunt enough to not even try to uphold the internal logic here: "I can use my magic outside of Grayskull because I decide to." That is not only a bad explanation in terms of fantasy writing, it also diminishes the role of the previous Sorceress. Was she too stupid, afraid, or inexperienced to ever try something like that? To have to be in Zoar's shape or use a crystal as a conduit -- when she would have done just fine without that? It's hard to imagine.

The writers of the old shows gave us mysteries and worked within the realm of mysteries. Revelation gives us bluntness.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Sidenote: Generally curious. If one checks your posts, the only thread that you've been posting in post after post after post, the one that has your attention, is this Revelation thread for a show that you don't even like. Is this a-love-to-hate-it kind of thing for you?

I have written posts in other threads, but Revelation is the most important MOTU topic right now, as I see it. Besides, I don't think I'm more active here than you are.

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

We talked about this crystal before. It is what makes all the difference here. The writers bothered enough to offer us an explanation to supply some form of internal logic.

You seemed to overlook this to make your argument work:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

With the Crystal of Allena with her, and sometimes without the crystal, the Filmation Sorceress has left the castle in Sorceress form before, and used her powers outside of Grayskull before. So it seems it has always been a matter of choice for her. And Sorceress Teela has made her choice.

Filmation contradicted the need for the Crystal of Allena in the very episode the crystal was introduced, when Teela Na first entered the pool of power and became the Sorceress, she left Grayskull like Sorceress Teela did, with no sign or explanation of a crystal requirement. But I don't give the show a hard time about it... .

I don't handwave conveniences in any series

Yet, you bypassed what I said above, and had no comment for the below:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Now why the Filmation Sorceress didn't come out more to help He-Man in some sticky situations in the Filmation series is just for story convenience, like the conveniences taken in all MOTU shows that many critics seem to handwave unless its Revelation.

Moving on...

It's only Revelation which is blunt enough to not even try to uphold the internal logic here: "I can use my magic outside of Grayskull because I decide to." That is not only a bad explanation in terms of fantasy writing, it also diminishes the role of the previous Sorceress.

Teela said she will be a different Sorceress, one that doesn't just protect the power, but will use the Power. Like He-Man, and Battle Cat as the power is willed upon him, etc. And yes, I think Teela is stronger than her mother in every possible sense and not maintaining the status quo does not diminish the role of the previous Sorceress. It advances the narrative of that bloodline. But if it helps you sleep, just pretend Teela swallowed the Crystal of Allena.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

You seemed to overlook this to make your argument work:



Filmation contradicted the need for the Crystal of Allena in the very episode the crystal was introduced, when Teela Na first entered the pool of power and became the Sorceress, she left Grayskull like Sorceress Teela did, with no sign or explanation of a crystal requirement. But I don't give the show a hard time about it... .



Yet, you bypassed what I said above, and had no comment for the below:



Moving on...



Teela said she will be a different Sorceress, one that doesn't just protect the power, but will use the Power. Like He-Man, and Battle Cat as the power is willed upon him, etc. And yes, I think Teela is stronger than her mother in every possible sense and not maintaining the status quo does not diminish the role of the previous Sorceress. It advances the narrative of that bloodline. But if it helps you sleep, just pretend Teela swallowed the Crystal of Allena.

If we get a second season, I hope we see some negative consequences for her for using this power. There should be a cost (not that I wish ill-will towards Teela).

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

"Narrow-minded" -- sweet. It's name-calling time again, it seems. And as usual, it's coming from someone of the "pro faction".

Well, in all fairness, aren't you proving me right? You have categorized/labeled fans as belonging to pro or anti "factions."

I can recognize Revelation's faults, just as I can see its strengths and make the decision to like the end product regardless.

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

It's amazing to me how defensive some Revelation fans get and how personal they take criticism of the show, no matter how well-founded or factual it might be.

This was good for a chuckle!

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

Regarding your Superman analogy, though: Superman had been an established hero for a long time when the Justice League was created. That's why the DC writers had to use him the way he was.

Err, the Sorceress has been an established character in MOTU for a very long time. Some would argue that she's been there since the very first mini-comic. And the best part, her powers have evolved and changed throughout MOTU's different iterations, yet never specifically explained. (Which I think was done by design.)

Originally Posted by Dice

To me, the Super-man comic and story line really didn't get good until Lois became as powerful as Super-man and they started fighting crime together.

I'm not sure I'd roll my eyes at this... All Star Superman was a critically and commercially acclaimed series that does exactly what you described. Both Superman and Lois gain super-powers and fight crime together for a time.

But, that's neither here nor there because I was talking about Justice League.

I'm of a mind that likens He-Man and Teela to Superman and Wonder Woman... NOT Superman and Lois. I think that Teela has always been just as smart and valuable in a battle as He-Man - she's just missing the Powers of Grayskull...

Originally Posted by Dice

I want to add that I hope Revelations does not get cancelled and very much do want it to have success. MOTU fan first.

Me too.

"Today we are sharing special Eternians that borrow from our Masters of the Universe: Revelation crew. Our character designers inserted themselves and some of our admin team into a few scenes."

https://twitter.com/powerhouseanim/s...45554375155719

@ Voodoo Magic:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

You seemed to overlook this to make your argument work:

Filmation contradicted the need for the Crystal of Allena in the very episode the crystal was introduced, when Teela Na first entered the pool of power and became the Sorceress, she left Grayskull like Sorceress Teela did, with no sign or explanation of a crystal requirement. But I don't give the show a hard time about it... .

I'm almost sure the intended explanation for Teela-na's power use outside of Grayskull in the flashback sequence was also the Crystal of Allenar. It is the very same episode this artifact was introduced, after all.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Yet, you bypassed what I said above, and had no comment for the below:

I didn't comment this specifically because it's actually a very general observation. Everything in a scripted series happens due to story convenience to some degree. *How* these events are told is what makes the difference. The Filmation show was certainly not a carefully thought-through and watertight fantasy universe, however, it provided more rationale to some of its magic than Revelation. The Crystal of Allenar was a good idea, and the fact that it can be identified as a "story convenience" is not a big deal. At least, Mr. Straczynski took the time to provide some internal logic, whereas Revelation doesn't even seem to care.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Teela said she will be a different Sorceress, one that doesn't just protect the power, but will use the Power. Like He-Man, and Battle Cat as the power is willed upon him, etc. And yes, I think Teela is stronger than her mother in every possible sense and not maintaining the status quo does not diminish the role of the previous Sorceress. It advances the narrative of that bloodline. But if it helps you sleep, just pretend Teela swallowed the Crystal of Allena.

If the best of both worlds (protecting and adventuring) is possible simply by making a decision, it seems very weird to me that the previous Sorceress shouldn't have considered this option more often. The "bloodline narrative" could have been advanced by simply letting Teela inherit her mother's role. The Sorceress's powers from within the castle, her telepathic communication, and the occasional use of the Crystal of Allenar would have given Teela more than enough ways to be more than just a guardian.

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@ Ornclown:

Originally Posted by Ornclown

Well, in all fairness, aren't you proving me right? You have categorized/labeled fans as belonging to pro or anti "factions."

In all *fairness*? Name-calling has nothing to do with fairness as I see it. And I'm certainly not proving to be "narrow-minded" by pointing out that there is a pro and contra faction in the community. I didn't think I had to explain that nobody is either 100 % pro or contra.

Originally Posted by Parzival

Teela being a lesbian and Andra being her girlfriend. Teela becoming He-man. It being the Teela show. That Adam was killed twice. Adam wasn’t even killed once. That it was supposed to be a sequel to Filmation. That Kevin Smith lied about *insert topic here*.

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I mean, to your first point, that's exactly what my wife thought, who would know a thing or two about dating women. But hey, to each their own. Teela was featured more prominently than He-Man, not sure how that can even be argued. She didn't become He-Man but she did get the everyone has the power upgrade though, so whatever. Adam was killed once, I guess you ignored the part of going to Eternia heaven. Was it not supposed to be a sequel? Sequel, story continuation, same thing. Kevin Smith is terrible.

But hey man, agree to disagree.

Again, I AM GLAD PEOPLE FOUND ENJOYMENT IN THE SERIES. I can't stress that enough. I'm glad you enjoyed the series.

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

@ Voodoo Magic:
I'm almost sure the intended explanation for Teela-na's power use outside of Grayskull in the flashback sequence was also the Crystal of Allenar. It is the very same episode this artifact was introduced, after all.

Yeah, but that is truly just an assumption by you. None of the rules of being bound by Grayskull nor a need of a crystal to leave while retaining her human form and powers were explained to the fledgling Sorceress (when it desperately needed to be.) The audience can just as easily assume these Grayskull shackles only gradually occur when years go by, with time served, years in servitude of Castle Grayskull.

I didn't comment this specifically because it's actually a very general observation. Everything in a scripted series happens due to story convenience to some degree. *How* these events are told is what makes the difference. The Filmation show was certainly not a carefully thought-through and watertight fantasy universe, however, it provided more rationale to some of its magic than Revelation. The Crystal of Allenar was a good idea, and the fact that it can be identified as a "story convenience" is not a big deal. At least, Mr. Straczynski took the time to provide some internal logic, whereas Revelation doesn't even seem to care.

See, if you were treating other MOTU shows like you do Revelation, you'd be complaining that producing a magical rock that allows the Sorceress to leave the castle and retain her powers is bad writing. That it's contrived. You'd be arguing that before this point the Sorceress could not leave Castle Grayskull and retain her powers, so why didn't the Sorceress use this magical rock before?

Now in comparison, the Sorceress Teela using the power and bestowing it upon herself like it's bestowed on Battle Cat, is a lot more logical.

If the best of both worlds (protecting and adventuring) is possible simply by making a decision, it seems very weird to me that the previous Sorceress shouldn't have considered this option more often.

She obviously could have based on what the Filmation series taught us, but clearly didn't. It just wasn't her philosophy to use the power, only protect the power, based on what Revelation taught us. Nor was Teela's mother trained to fight like Teela was trained. She had a whole different mindset.

Originally Posted by Soulfly

I mean, to your first point, that's exactly what my wife thought, who would know a thing or two about dating women. But hey, to each their own. Teela was featured more prominently than He-Man, not sure how that can even be argued. She didn't become He-Man but she did get the everyone has the power upgrade though, so whatever. Adam was killed once, I guess you ignored the part of going to Eternia heaven. Was it not supposed to be a sequel? Sequel, story continuation, same thing. Kevin Smith is terrible.

But hey man, agree to disagree.

Again, I AM GLAD PEOPLE FOUND ENJOYMENT IN THE SERIES. I can't stress that enough. I'm glad you enjoyed the series.

So Teela becoming Sorceress, as she was always supposed to, and has in comics, is some sort of issue now?


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Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Yeah, but that is truly just an assumption by you. None of the rules of being bound by Grayskull nor a need of a crystal to leave while retaining her human form and powers were explained to the fledgling Sorceress (when it desperately needed to be.) The audience can just as easily assume these Grayskull shackles only gradually occur when years go by, with time served, years in servitude of Castle Grayskull.

In this episode, the "Origin of the Sorceress", the Sorceress tells He-Man that she needs to take the Crystal of Allenar with her in order to 1) use her powers outside of the castle and 2) remain in humanoid form outside of the castle. Also, towards the end of the episode, the crystal runs out of power, showing us that even when using the crystal, the Sorceress' activity outside the castle is limited. This strongly implies that what she does outside of the castle is *not* decision-based. Otherwise she would not point out that the crystal's energy is "almost gone". That is not pure speculation but a logical extrapolation of the Sorceress's own words.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

See, if you were treating other MOTU shows like you do Revelation, you'd be complaining that producing a magical rock that allows the Sorceress to leave the castle and retain her powers is bad writing. That it's contrived. You'd be arguing that before this point the Sorceress could not leave Castle Grayskull and retain her powers, so why didn't the Sorceress use this magical rock before?

This has nothing to do with whether the crystal appeared in Filmation or any other MOTU show. The introduction of the crystal per se was very good writing as it provided a rationale for the Sorceress's activity outside of Grayskull. It is not anymore "contrived" than any other form magic used in any other fantasy story. The difference is, as I pointed out before, that Filmation at least tries to come up with these kinds of things, even if they are not always used consistently. In Revelation, the motto is "I can do it because I want to" or "I don't want you to die, so I hold on to you". Revelation's only concern is epicness, and it constantly tries to one-up everything that's been there before.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Now in comparison, the Sorceress Teela using the power and bestowing it upon herself like it's bestowed on Battle Cat, is a lot more logical.

How is that more logical? I've never understood Battle-Cat's power as anything close to He-Man's or the Sorceress's power. It's not comparable. Battle-Cat receives *some* power to be brave and a better warrior but not enough to do anything completely out of the ordinary

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

She obviously could have based on what the Filmation series taught us, but clearly didn't.

Filmation taught us the opposite. While it is admittedly not always consistent, the bottom line is that while outside of Castle Grayskull, the Sorceress *cannot* remain in human form for long (hence her regular transformation into Zoar) and cannot use her powers in the normal fashion. There might be *a few* episodes straining this concept ("Return of Evil" coming to mind), but it is mostly followed.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Nor was Teela's mother trained to fight like Teela was trained. She had a whole different mindset.

True, Teela is even more powerful as she also has a first-class warrior training, but according to "The Origin of the Sorceress", Teela-na was certainly capable of handling both a group of technologically advanced invaders and the evil wizard Morgoth. Instead of beating them into pulp, of course, she used magic to simply transport them into another dimension. Being active and helping her people was her original motivation, after all, to even become the Sorceress. With that in mind, it would be quite a break of character if she had *consciously* decided to play a less active role.

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

In this episode, the "Origin of the Sorceress", the Sorceress tells He-Man that she needs to take the Crystal of Allenar with her in order to 1) use her powers outside of the castle and 2) remain in humanoid form outside of the castle. Also, towards the end of the episode, the crystal runs out of power, showing us that even when using the crystal, the Sorceress' activity outside the castle is limited. This strongly implies that what she does outside of the castle is *not* decision-based. Otherwise she would not point out that the crystal's energy is "almost gone". That is not pure speculation but a logical extrapolation of the Sorceress's own words.

I was talking when she was a young woman and just became the Sorceress and was not advised she was bound to the castle nor advised of a need of a crystal and left to save her home. I'm happy you watched the episode for this conversation but you really need to read what I write if you're responding to it. Here it is again:

"Yeah, but that is truly just an assumption by you. None of the rules of being bound by Grayskull nor a need of a crystal to leave while retaining her human form and powers were explained to the fledgling Sorceress (when it desperately needed to be.) The audience can just as easily assume these Grayskull shackles only gradually occur when years go by, with time served, years in servitude of Castle Grayskull"

This has nothing to do with whether the crystal appeared in Filmation or any other MOTU show. The introduction of the crystal per se was very good writing as it provided a rationale for the Sorceress's activity outside of Grayskull.

It's doing exactly what your complaining about in Revelation. It's taking established rules set in Season One (Sorceress bound to the castle), and now saying in Season Two with this magic rock Sorceress can indeed leave the castle, use her powers and help He-Man. Yet you only complain if Revelation does it, when all the shows do the same thing.

Revelation's only concern is epicness, and it constantly tries to one-up everything that's been there before.

Ah, that's Revelation's only concern. Riiiight.

How is that more logical? I've never understood Battle-Cat's power as anything close to He-Man's or the Sorceress's power. It's not comparable. Battle-Cat receives *some* power to be brave and a better warrior but not enough to do anything completely out of the ordinary

Battle Cat is gifted with some controlled power yes. And it's logical to me to think the Sorceress who has access to all the power can gift some to herself, at the very least the power of a magical rock.

With that in mind, it would be quite a break of character if she had *consciously* decided to play a less active role.

Once it was declared in the Filmation series that the Sorceress was capable of leaving the castle and use her powers to help but usually didn't, it became a conscious decision. A conscious decision to stay back and protect the secrets of Grayskull.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

I was talking when she was a young woman and just became the Sorceress and was not advised she was bound to the castle nor advised of a need of a crystal and left to save her home. I'm happy you watched the episode for this conversation but you really need to read what I write if you're responding to it. Here it is again:

"Yeah, but that is truly just an assumption by you. None of the rules of being bound by Grayskull nor a need of a crystal to leave while retaining her human form and powers were explained to the fledgling Sorceress (when it desperately needed to be.) The audience can just as easily assume these Grayskull shackles only gradually occur when years go by, with time served, years in servitude of Castle Grayskull"

I addressed this point here:

Originally Posted by JSElshoff

I'm almost sure the intended explanation for Teela-na's power use outside of Grayskull in the flashback sequence was also the Crystal of Allenar. It is the very same episode this artifact was introduced, after all.

The part where Teela-na leaves Grayskull after talking to Kuduk Ungol is not shown. The episode directly cuts to her confrontation of the invaders. You can call it an assumption, but for me it's pretty logical that she already makes use of the Crystal of Allenar in this part of the flashback sequence. The crystal was introduced in the same episode *for exactly* that purpose. That's why I don't think it's wild speculation. The author provided this rationale to allow the Sorceress to use her powers outside of Grayskull from time to time, so it's a logical extrapolation to assume that it was also due to the crystal that she could use her magic against the invaders.

That is not what I would call "handwaving" or being overly forgiving as the same episode already offers us a sound explanation.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

It's doing exactly what your complaining about in Revelation. It's taking established rules set in Season One (Sorceress bound to the castle), and now saying in Season Two with this magic rock Sorceress can indeed leave the castle, use her powers and help He-Man. Yet you only complain if Revelation does it, when all the shows do the same thing.

There is a fundamental difference between Revelation and Filmation here:

• In Revelation, Teela's explanation simply is, "I can do it because I want to". This attitude towards bending the rules of magic on the spot is basically repeated when Evil-Lyn saves the "undead" Orko from returning to the Land of the Dead by simply keeping hold of him. In both cases, what we get is a *nonexplanation* or one might even say an anti-explanation.

• In "The Origin of the Sorceress" episode, however, an artifact is introduced as an in-world rationale to allow the Sorceress to sometimes keep her human form and use her full powers outside of Grayskull. This artifact is still limited as it apparently runs out of power after some time. What we have here is a *good explanation* which expands in a logical and coherent way the Sorceress's sphere of influence.

The first is what I'd call rule-breaking, the second a well-written exception to the rule.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Once it was declared in the Filmation series that the Sorceress was capable of leaving the castle and use her powers to help but usually didn't, it became a conscious decision. A conscious decision to stay back and protect the secrets of Grayskull.

As I see it and understand it, the in-world explanation for the Sorceress usually remaining inside Grayskull is that 1) she has duties there and 2) it is part of her powers' nature that she becomes weaker outside the castle and cannot be gone from it for too long. This view is supported by what is said about her power throughout Filmation and very explicitly by the sheer existence of the Crystal of Allenar.

Revelation made this a "decision" thing.

There is ZERO reasons to bend the rules for Revelations Sorceress, zero...

If we get a continuation of Revelations I hope they explain that seemingly more mobile Sorceress is a by-product of the whole "celestial" alignment event power sharing or not roll it back and set it right maybe an epic fight of Sorceress vs Zodac ( cause you know Teela won't back down without a fight ) He-Man, too they should not be able to just pull out however much magic they need there has to be a cap. It just makes for better storytelling.

Originally Posted by smanomega

There is ZERO reasons to bend the rules for Revelations Sorceress, zero...

If we get a continuation of Revelations I hope they explain that seemingly more mobile Sorceress is a by-product of the whole "celestial" alignment event power sharing or not roll it back and set it right maybe an epic fight of Sorceress vs Zodac ( cause you know Teela won't back down without a fight ) He-Man, too they should not be able to just pull out however much magic they need there has to be a cap. It just makes for better storytelling.

Do we know if all the knowledge from the previous sorcress is bestowed upon the new sorcress (or maybe it does in this show)? She stated she is going to use the power to protect the entire world and not just Grayskull itself so maybe whatever spell or confinment that keeps her in Grayskull is expanded to the whole world now? ( I dont know just a thought or soemthing to consider) Now for the next season It would be really awesome of Zodac sees the threat of Hordak and he goes to Eternia to investigate and comes across He-man and comapany, they fight and then they become allies and team up to take Hordak or whatever version we get of him weither its actually Hordak or if its Despara (either would be cool, if it is Despara give us Hordak flashbacks so we get both characters).

Originally Posted by Dice

For some fans, myself included Teela becoming Sorceress isn't the issue. It's Teela being on the same power scale, or possibly even more powerful, than He-man.

A lot of us never owned a Teela figure and aren't thrilled with the idea of a He-man and Teela show. He-man has always been the main protagonist of the MOTU. Was there something wrong with that?

But it's the same as when people like myself hated most of the Classics Bio's. Or when people disliked Filmation because of our love for the mini-comics.

There's always going to be fans that aren't happy. But that still means there ARE fans that are unhappy.

But we all acknowledge the Sorceress is theoretically more powerful so if it not an issue that Teela becomes the Sorceress… the issue is… Teela becomes the Sorceress?


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There is a reason, in the moment, to bend the rules of the Sorceress in Revelation: the conjunction gives the opportunity to change those rules. They are, and magic is, more powerful. Therefore in the moments of the conjunction they can change things. The problem is that since the story is over and we don’t know if there is a second season coming that it’s left with a definitive ending so people are nitpicking unless there is a season 2.


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Originally Posted by JSElshoff

The part where Teela-na leaves Grayskull after talking to Kuduk Ungol is not shown. The episode directly cuts to her confrontation of the invaders. You can call it an assumption, but for me it's pretty logical that she already makes use of the Crystal of Allenar in this part of the flashback sequence.

It is indeed an assumption logical or not, gaps that need to be bridged in all shows, not just Revelation.

That is not what I would call "handwaving" or being overly forgiving as the same episode already offers us a sound explanation.

Sound explanation?

Sorceress : Hi He-Man, did you know (now in Season 2) with this magic rock I can leave the castle and use my powers and help you?

He-Man: Wait, I'm learning this.. now? Where were you this battle, or this battle, or this battle, or when I needed help here, there and here?!

Sorceress: Ummm...


No, to me, a brand new Sorceress coming in with trained fighting skills and new philosophy and the desire to bestow "the power" on herself is a MUCH more sound explanation than a contrived magic crystal. Unequivocally.

"We have the power" she says.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

It is indeed an assumption logical or not, gaps that need to be bridged in all shows, not just Revelation.

My point is that the two cannot be compared. When I'm watching the flashback sequence in "The Origin of the Sorceress", I have already been given a solid explanation to bridge this (very small) gap. In Revelation, however, I have nothing and based on what the characters say it seems like it doesn't even want to explain.

If I can choose between a solid explanation that is not always 100 % watertight and a nonexplanation, I will certainly choose the first one.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Sound explanation?

Sorceress : Hi He-Man, did you know (now in Season 2) with this magic rock I can leave the castle and use my powers and help you?

He-Man: Wait, I'm learning this.. now? Where were you this battle, or this battle, or this battle, or when I needed help here, there and here?!

Sorceress: Ummm...

The Crystal of Allenar is a creative and clever idea that just works as far as I'm concerned. The fact that new secrets are revealed from time to time doesn't make this less believable to me. Revelation seems to have cultivated the idea that keeping secrets to protect people is an appaling act and clearly always wrong. Especially when things like magic and fate are concerned, I like the idea that someone like the Sorceress who might be able to look into the future keeps certain things to herself until they need to be revealed. So, yes, within the context of a fantasy show, I would definitely say that the crystal is a *sound* explanation.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

No, to me, a brand new Sorceress coming in with trained fighting skills and new philosophy and the desire to bestow "the power" on herself is a MUCH more sound explanation than a contrived magic crystal. Unequivocally.

"We have the power" she says.

Maybe for you the crystal feels contrived, I think it's a really cool invention and the sign of a good writer. What feels contrived and also quite careless to me is the way the Sorceress' power -- and the power of Grayskull in general -- is handled in Revelation. An inexperienced new Sorceress can suddenly completely reinvent the way her powers work... The same power that gave Adam superhuman strength can give Skeletor almost godlike abilities... And how is this all explained? It's a matter of choice...

To me, the crystal sounds a lot more contrived coming in at a later episode without previous foreshadowing and reference than “we have a grand conjunction where magic is boosted and sorcerors can tap into godlike power to change things like Thanos” or even, the explanation given in the series in and of itself when Teela chooses to be different and still takes on the role. The former feels contrived when it is introduced because it was never hinted at and no one blinks an eye but it was also the limitations of the format at that time, similar to comic books, where each episode was stand alone and had to be self contained which is why, as a source for lore or consistent history, lore, myth etc Filmation is a weak point for MOTU compared to Mattel’s own materials like the mini comics and storybooks as well as internal materials like the story Bible they used as a foundation for all media whether Filmation chose to use it or not, per their contract with Mattel. The former is an actual example of “bad writing” where something is contrived for a story in order to break the rules or as a gotcha while Teela in Revelation is an example of “ok” writing at worst where they do tell a story for the change but we haven’t seen the consequences yet for the choice and everyone is calling it bad writing because we haven’t seen the consequences… ummm… when did they get a chance to tell that story yet?? That’s like saying Captain America: First Avenger is bad writing because it doesn’t get into details about how Peggy Carter reacted to Steve being trapped in the ice. People don’t complain because we got the Agent Carter show that showed the after effect and scenes in the two sequels that take the lead from that event. So… is it bad writing that they haven’t show the consequences or is it unfortunate that there is a chance we may not get a follow up season that will tell us that story?


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Originally Posted by JSElshoff

Maybe for you the crystal feels contrived, I think it's a really cool invention and the sign of a good writer.

Sign of a good writer?

Yep, to me, this quote here, is all one needs to invalidate your posts upon posts of criticizing Revelation as bad writing.

Originally Posted by Voodoo Magic

Sign of a good writer?

Yep, to me, this quote here, is all one needs to invalidate your posts upon posts of criticizing Revelation as bad writing.

So when you're running out of arguments, you're playing this card?

It might not matter to you, but history has proven J. Michael Straczynski (who wrote "The Origin of the Sorceress" and other great Filmation episodes) to be a very successful, prolific, and award-winning writer. He created Babylon 5 among other things.

Apart from that, I'm really not sure if you're even a fantasy fan or care about what makes good fantasy stories. Coming up with an artifact that enhances a character's powers is not at all "contrived". I wonder where you get that from. It's not like the author desperately needed a rationale. He could have simply told the story differently and let the Sorceress communicate telepathically as usual. It was a free creative decision to do something different this time around.

Originally Posted by Parzival

To me, the crystal sounds a lot more contrived coming in at a later episode without previous foreshadowing and reference than “we have a grand conjunction where magic is boosted and sorcerors can tap into godlike power to change things like Thanos” or even, the explanation given in the series in and of itself when Teela chooses to be different and still takes on the role. The former feels contrived when it is introduced because it was never hinted at and no one blinks an eye but it was also the limitations of the format at that time, similar to comic books, where each episode was stand alone and had to be self contained which is why, as a source for lore or consistent history, lore, myth etc Filmation is a weak point for MOTU compared to Mattel’s own materials like the mini comics and storybooks as well as internal materials like the story Bible they used as a foundation for all media whether Filmation chose to use it or not, per their contract with Mattel. The former is an actual example of “bad writing” where something is contrived for a story in order to break the rules or as a gotcha while Teela in Revelation is an example of “ok” writing at worst where they do tell a story for the change but we haven’t seen the consequences yet for the choice and everyone is calling it bad writing because we haven’t seen the consequences… ummm… when did they get a chance to tell that story yet?? That’s like saying Captain America: First Avenger is bad writing because it doesn’t get into details about how Peggy Carter reacted to Steve being trapped in the ice. People don’t complain because we got the Agent Carter show that showed the after effect and scenes in the two sequels that take the lead from that event. So… is it bad writing that they haven’t show the consequences or is it unfortunate that there is a chance we may not get a follow up season that will tell us that story?

Conjunction or no conjunction, offering the viewer nothing more than "I can do it because I decide to" is as blunt, uncreative, and indifferent as a writer can get. Even comparing that to the introduction of an artifact with a clearly defined power seems weird. Also, the crystal does *not* break any rule. It provides the Sorceress with a temporary alternative.

Consistency-wise, Filmation is not great, but it's still stronger than Revelation. Revelation doesn't care about anything -- not about power levels, not about cosmological aspects, not about solving situations with one deus ex machina after the next.

And regarding your last question, it is always bad writing to not offer perspectives or hint at possibilities in serial fiction. Sure, in the next season of Revelation Teela might realize that her decision was too hasty and that she overlooked important truths -- but nothing *at all* gives us any clue yet that that might be the case. Good writing, however, is mostly about the road and not about the destination.