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Thread: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from Super7

  1. #801
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayskull Guardsman View Post
    Sad thing is I think they are planning to hike Ultimates pricing even more. Or it sounded like it in a fairly recent interview. $45 is already a bit steep... they are going to price them out of even more sales.
    I believe $55 is the base price now for Ultimates.

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    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    I believe $55 is the base price now for Ultimates.

    Correct. Supposedly they're going to $60 or $65 soon.
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  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    Correct. Supposedly they're going to $60 or $65 soon.
    Jeez! I sure hope not. Where did you hear that?

    I have all my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from childhood and didn't feel the need to buy this line initially, but I really like it so far (minus the QC issues with the Foot Soldiers). However, it's hard to justify paying more than $200 a wave. I think Masters of the Universe Ultimates were $35, so double that price in a few year...eek. I am excited about the potential with Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, Silverhawks, and the new Transformers Ultimates, but the price stings.

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    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    In one of his video interviews, someone mentioned how Ultimates recently jumped in price, and he said basically it was going to go up again because "muh tooling." They seem to go up in $10 increments, so I'm betting they'll be priced at $65 by this fall.
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    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Aside from the delays and quality control it's Super 7's over pricing why I never wanted them to get the Thundercats licence.
    At least with TMNT their is the option of buying NECA while all Thundercats has is Super 7.
    $55+ for one figure is just too much especially when compared to other superior products on the market.
    I could justify $55+ on one figure if it was like an absolute one off for the collection or an over sized larger figure....but there is no way I can justify every figure being that price, especially when you take into account the quality control, delays and subpar articulation etc.

    There is only really about 14 TMNT characters I would want but over $700 for 14 figures just isn't worth it to me when I think of all different figures I could buy for that money from the various lines I dabble collecting.
    That's basically 35+ Marvel Legends/Star Wars Black Series/WWE Elite/ G.I. Joe Classified etc.

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    Iím shipping the GITD Mutagen Man. Iím also going to skip any turtle variants. Honestly, if I can get The revealed figures and a few other key characters Iím interested in like Krang, Slash, Leatherhead, Rat King, Ace Duck, Ray Fillet, Traag, Usagi... Iím good. I donít need everyone; I donít need Vernon or Dr. El or lots of the later characters I never developed any love for.

    If someone started a line based on the IDW comics, I could get into trouble.
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  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    In general, what kind of lies do Super7 spew out to justify their obscene prices? Serious question. When it comes to over-pricing, they give Sideshow a run for their money.
    Brian did a interview awhile back with the fwoosh. In that video he made the mistake by admitting how he would sell cds to equate the price it cost to make and how many were made and how many would sell. It wasn't profitable and he'd end up with a mess of unsold cds. So he then would raise the price on the cds so the extra cost would cover the unsold cds and he'd still see profit. He brought that with him selling toys. He should've never said that on video cause now I look at things differently when it comes to their product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    Jeez! I sure hope not. Where did you hear that?

    I have all my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from childhood and didn't feel the need to buy this line initially, but I really like it so far (minus the QC issues with the Foot Soldiers). However, it's hard to justify paying more than $200 a wave. I think Masters of the Universe Ultimates were $35, so double that price in a few year...eek. I am excited about the potential with Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, Silverhawks, and the new Transformers Ultimates, but the price stings.
    He stated all brands will be raising their prices.

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  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    In one of his video interviews, someone mentioned how Ultimates recently jumped in price, and he said basically it was going to go up again because "muh tooling." They seem to go up in $10 increments, so I'm betting they'll be priced at $65 by this fall.


    Quote Originally Posted by unclassified View Post
    He stated all brands will be raising their prices.

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    The interview I saw the other month, I thought he meant that as something next year or later. I think $55 is the 2021 Ultimates price. If anyone heard otherwise, please post the link. Thanks!

  10. #810
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    If true, these new prices really makes me wonder if Super 7 will be shooting themselves in the foot.

    This "strategy" could seriously come back to bite them...

    They will essentially be eliminating all foreign orders... their ludicrous prices in addition to oversees shipping? No way.
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  11. #811
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    There's truth to all three of those, of course, but it's grossly inflated. A lot of the time when BF quotes tooling costs, he's talking about steel molds in a top notch factory, rather than the latex and aluminum molds in bottom bargain factories that they actually use.
    Just setting the record straight. Iíve worked in the toy industry in some capacity or another for a decade. Nothing Brian has said is grossly inflated or even surprising. The absolute cheapest line Iíve been involved with recently cost $40,000 per figure to tool and that was after heavy haggling with the factory. Half a million for Snake Mountain sounds pretty much average. I know some places that maybe could tool something like that for $300,000 but theyíd cut a LOT of corners and deliver a far crappier product.

    And nothing a place like Super7 does uses aluminum or latex molds. Neither are even remotely suitable for mass manufacturing. Latex molds are generally only used for prototyping. Itís not even suitable for tiny runs of like 30 pieces. Companies that produce cold cast statues will use more durable rubbers (generally urethane or silicon) but even then you need multiple molds because you only get about 50 castings before you get mold breakdown. Aluminum is almost never used for production. In the past toy companies would use it for their initial samples before final tooling was done in steel. But anything youíre producing a few thousand of will require steel molds.

    Brian has been pretty up front and honest about the costs. Itís not what collectors want to hear, but it is the reality of the industry right now. And the cost differences for small collectorís lines like that are even more pronounced than he lets on because I think he doesnít want to throw anyone under the bus. But it costs many times more for a line like Ultimates to be produced than something at retail like Marvel Legends or even NECAís lines, while the profit margins are a fraction of the size.
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    Heroic Warrior Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    If true, these new prices really makes me wonder if Super 7 will be shooting themselves in the foot.

    This "strategy" could seriously come back to bite them...

    They will essentially be eliminating all foreign orders... their ludicrous prices in addition to oversees shipping? No way.
    While I understand why they are increasing the prices, I agree with you. A MSRP over $50 is going to turn many customers away. A MSRP over $60...they might as well cancel the lines now. That's just too high. I'd rather they decrease some of the accessories of the elaborate packaging and keep the cost the same.

    Kinda glad now that they did so many "core" characters in the first 4 or 5 waves. I can't see any line hitting wave 10 at these new prices. Plus it will take until about 2030 to get that far.

  13. #813
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    With inflation of the dollar likely on the horizon, prices are only going to continue to increase.

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    Just setting the record straight. Iíve worked in the toy industry in some capacity or another for a decade. Nothing Brian has said is grossly inflated or even surprising. The absolute cheapest line Iíve been involved with recently cost $40,000 per figure to tool and that was after heavy haggling with the factory. Half a million for Snake Mountain sounds pretty much average. I know some places that maybe could tool something like that for $300,000 but theyíd cut a LOT of corners and deliver a far crappier product.

    And nothing a place like Super7 does uses aluminum or latex molds. Neither are even remotely suitable for mass manufacturing. Latex molds are generally only used for prototyping. Itís not even suitable for tiny runs of like 30 pieces. Companies that produce cold cast statues will use more durable rubbers (generally urethane or silicon) but even then you need multiple molds because you only get about 50 castings before you get mold breakdown. Aluminum is almost never used for production. In the past toy companies would use it for their initial samples before final tooling was done in steel. But anything youíre producing a few thousand of will require steel molds.

    Brian has been pretty up front and honest about the costs. Itís not what collectors want to hear, but it is the reality of the industry right now. And the cost differences for small collectorís lines like that are even more pronounced than he lets on because I think he doesnít want to throw anyone under the bus. But it costs many times more for a line like Ultimates to be produced than something at retail like Marvel Legends or even NECAís lines, while the profit margins are a fraction of the size.

    Your experience and opinions differ wildly from my own. Aluminium and Latex/Rubber/Plasticine molds are industry standard for most small-scale manufacturers (Mattel even used them in Classics), and you can easily discern which Super7 pieces come off which type of mold, if you know what to look for. Maybe when plasticine molds were first used for mass production, they couldn't go much past 300 units, but modern materials can produce 3,000 or more units. Mattel had a steelcore latex mold that was putting out 10,000 units, at less than the cost of an aluminum alloy mold.

    Otherwise, aluminum alloy molds are stronger than steel in some regards, lighter to ship, cheaper to manufacture, and are a good middle ground between latex and steel for a small tier manufacturer, which is why aluminum is so prevalent now. The achilles heel for aluminum has always been durability, detail and inability to retool in comparison to steel.

    Half a million dollars in tooling for Snake Mountain or the Thunder Tank has no basis in reality for the type of stuff Super7 is churning out, unless some creative accounting is used to roll the owner's salary (or other costs) into that figure. Any one of us can contract a dirt-tier Chinese factory to produce a Thunder Tank of the same design for half that price, so a distributor buying in bulk is getting an even better rate.

    As pointed out in this thread, BF has more or less described his pricing strategy, which is to intentionally overprice and see what the market will bear, and if it doesn't move, he can always drop to a more realistic price and still make a profit. His prices are exceptionally high because people keep buying it at inflated cost, not because it costs that much to manufacture. If everyone decided to boycott S7 for the next sixth months, we'd see more realistic and reasonable prices.

    I respect your opinion and insight, but I stand by my estimation that any production costs quoted by S7 are probably only 1/4 of that quote. If S7 is using steel molds and quality plastics in top tier factories, then something is happening on the way from China to the US to make their products turn subpar in comparison to all of their competitors.
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  15. #815
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    What Brian described with regards to CDs is true of every successful business. You have to have prices high enough to account for stock that wonít move. And if you think itís bad with small collector oriented companies you should know that the markup from the major toy companies is around 500%. That is if you see a toy for $20 it cost the manufacturer about $4 from concept to shelf. This is necessary at retail because around 80% of toys simply donít sell. Super7, Sideshow, Storm... all these companies that get blasted for being overpriced donít have a fraction of that profit margin.
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    Heroic Warrior Riddle of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    What Brian described with regards to CDs is true of every successful business. You have to have prices high enough to account for stock that wonít move.

    Where's their stock that isn't moving? They make this stuff to order and don't carry any excess stock. Sure they have a few of this and that on the site, but that has nothing to do with Ultimates. According to Brian, it's all separate.

    If these prices jump in the way that you guys are speculating, these Ultimate lines are toast. They'll be able to pump out a few of the main/in-demand characters, but forget everything else. The obscure/weird licenses are definitely done. The majority of that stuff doesn't seem to be all that hot to begin with.

    If you want to raise prices, it has to be gradual and in small increments. This will be viewed as obscene sticker shock for most and on items that they had a hard time justifying to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    Kinda glad now that they did so many "core" characters in the first 4 or 5 waves. I can't see any line hitting wave 10 at these new prices. Plus it will take until about 2030 to get that far.
    Yeah, people are going to be upset that they paid $45 for Captain Cracker but will have to pay $65 / $70 for Bengali (if they ever get to him...)

    At the regular price, some of the less-popular characters were tolerable... but, if these new prices set in, it will seem like they are using up a precious slot.



    Not to mention the fact that if these prices truly are constantly increasing to keep up with material costs, the Silverhawks are going to be $100 a piece when they come out... maybe dead-on-arrival.

    These aren't Hot Toys... Super 7 should not be selling their product direct at secondary market prices just to "barely" make a profit. If this is the case, they just stole the 5-6" scale action figure licenses from companies who may have been able to give them to us at a more reasonable cost.
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  18. #818
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    Where's their stock that isn't moving? They make this stuff to order and don't carry any excess stock. Sure they have a few of this and that on the site, but that has nothing to do with Ultimates. According to Brian, it's all separate.

    If these prices jump in the way that you guys are speculating, these Ultimate lines are toast. They'll be able to pump out a few of the main/in-demand characters, but forget everything else. The obscure/weird licenses are definitely done. The majority of that stuff doesn't seem to be all that hot to begin with.

    If you want to raise prices, it has to be gradual and in small increments. This will be viewed as obscene sticker shock for most and on items that they had a hard time justifying to begin with.
    It shouldn’t have a bearing on the Ultimates line since they are made to order, but people were acting like that’s a shady business practice akin to gouging when it’s not. Although (and this is just speculation) I’d bet that costs are calculated per wave rather than per figure since they don’t require an all in buy in anymore. So maybe the price of figures got bumped up slightly in case one figure in the line is a “peg warmer” in the broad sense.

    Companies are raising their prices across the board right now in similar percentages. A massive corporation like Hasbro can do it more gradually because they can afford the losses. But the rise in prices has to do with skyrocketing shipping and the rising cost of labor in China more than these companies trying to gouge customers. And it could be that small scale collectibles companies won’t be financially viable soon but there’s really no way around that. If the cost of action figures exceeds the price customers are willing to pay then the market will simply go away.

    Also Ultimates are fairly inexpensive compared to similar lines. Good Smile company figures average $75, Storm Collectibles run $90 or more, the latest Mezco 1:12 have been over $100 each.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    These aren't Hot Toys... Super 7 should not be selling their product direct at secondary market prices just to "barely" make a profit. If this is the case, they just stole the 5-6" scale action figure licenses from companies who may have been able to give them to us at a more reasonable cost.
    Many of these lines are only happening because of companies like Super7 selling product direct to barely make a profit. There’s no realistic scenario in which these are produced at mass market at much lower prices. The companies big enough to handle that won’t take a risk on a brand like Silverhawks if they would it would’ve happened by now. Even Thundercats failed at retail the last time it was attempted and it has far more name recognition.

    And comparison to Hot Toys isn’t really warranted $55 isn’t comparable to the $250 the basic Hot Toys figure sells for. And as I stated before many smaller companies sell 1:12 scale figures of similar quality for $75 and up. So the idea that Super7 is an outlier that’s “really screwing their customers” just doesn’t reflect reality.

    Full disclosure: I’ve worked for many of the companies discussed and I sculpt quite a bit for Super7 so I know I have a bit of a conflict of interest. But I really feel they get disproportionately ripped apart by customers. I don’t see people trash Mezco on their 1:12 collective prices. I don’t regularly see people bash Storm for their continually rising prices (now generally over $100 per figure).
    Last edited by Battle_Brak; April 21, 2021 at 07:02pm.
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    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle_Brak View Post
    Also Ultimates are fairly inexpensive compared to similar lines.
    Ultimates are pretty expensive compared to most mass retail lines when you factor in their sub par articulation and various quality control issues.

    Also while Mezco and Storm Collectibles products are more expensive than Ultimates, in terms of their quality and articulation they are of a far higher standard.

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    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I think we can safely say that this "hobby" has gone completely off the deep end when regularly dropping the equivalent of a monthly cable bill on a single TOY isn't just a topic of conversation but something that we justify and accept.

    I mean seriously, some great stuff coming out across multiple lines and everything, but... this kinda thing really isn't excusable. "High-end collectibles" or not... they're toys. "Toys" shouldn't be the exclusive hobby of those with six-figure incomes.

    In browsing the forums here in general, it's quite obvious that several or perhaps even many of the posters here have VERY good jobs, and that's wonderful. But... other people like TMNT, MOTU, Thundercats etc., too. And it's a bummer to go on FB or other forums and see SO many people who are huge fans of these properties be like, "Man, those things look great... too bad I forgot to go to law school, though, so I can't be bothered to care."

    I know there's Why's and Wherefores and Reasons. I can't help it, I grew up on food stamps and so that kind of mentality is always in my head. The fact that if I were a kid Right Now, a single one of these figures would be my entire Birthday or Christmas, and forget about having a "collection" of them, that would never happen. Just seems... a bit over the top. Can't help it. This kind of market just doesn't seem sustainable, or even "fair".

    I know part of it is "kids don't care about toys anymore in general, and they definitely don't care about These Properties" and so the companies have to make up the difference somewhere. It just still seems really ridiculous that we're so close to just shrugging and accepting that pretty soon dropping $100 on a single action figure will be a standard operating procedure. That's nuts.
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    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I think we can safely say that this "hobby" has gone completely off the deep end when regularly dropping the equivalent of a monthly cable bill on a single TOY isn't just a topic of conversation but something that we justify and accept.

    I mean seriously, some great stuff coming out across multiple lines and everything, but... this kinda thing really isn't excusable. "High-end collectibles" or not... they're toys. "Toys" shouldn't be the exclusive hobby of those with six-figure incomes.

    In browsing the forums here in general, it's quite obvious that several or perhaps even many of the posters here have VERY good jobs, and that's wonderful. But... other people like TMNT, MOTU, Thundercats etc., too. And it's a bummer to go on FB or other forums and see SO many people who are huge fans of these properties be like, "Man, those things look great... too bad I forgot to go to law school, though, so I can't be bothered to care."

    I know there's Why's and Wherefores and Reasons. I can't help it, I grew up on food stamps and so that kind of mentality is always in my head. The fact that if I were a kid Right Now, a single one of these figures would be my entire Birthday or Christmas, and forget about having a "collection" of them, that would never happen. Just seems... a bit over the top. Can't help it. This kind of market just doesn't seem sustainable, or even "fair".

    I know part of it is "kids don't care about toys anymore in general, and they definitely don't care about These Properties" and so the companies have to make up the difference somewhere. It just still seems really ridiculous that we're so close to just shrugging and accepting that pretty soon dropping $100 on a single action figure will be a standard operating procedure. That's nuts.
    This is why I keep saying that Classics had plenty of life left in it. Lots of fans were whining about the prices of the figures years ago, but now there's seemingly a ton of them happily willing to shell out even more dough for notably inferior Origins figures. If Mattel let Super7 resume making Classics I'd bet with utter confidence that they would sell out, no matter how obscure the characters get.

  22. #822
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Selfishly, I'm "over" Classics and would only care if the line continued or was brought back if the main point of it was re-releasing the main characters that are now $200-500.

    They're all great figures, but I can't even get a Man-At-Arms or Teela or Beast Man, so I absolutely wouldn't bother buying a single one of the more obscure characters they never got around to releasing. Reparations are in order, first.

    If that line was brought back, let's say in Waves of four figures, three of which were re-releases (maybe with a bonus accessory or extra weapon or head or something) and one of which was one of those super-obscure characters... in that case, I'd say it was a good idea. Otherwise, nah. Sure, people who already have those characters might be annoyed, but like it or not Those People are a vast minority of the toy-buying, MOTU-fan public. Just about every day on FB, someone in one of my toy groups discovers Classics for the first time, falls in love... and then immediately "Nopes" it because they can't even buy a He-Man or Skeletor without dropping a mortgage payment on it.

    If Classics came back tomorrow, and was only done to get those last dozen or so obscure characters out there on the market, like ten people would be thrilled and everybody else would be annoyed or furious.
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  23. #823
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    This is why I keep saying that Classics had plenty of life left in it. Lots of fans were whining about the prices of the figures years ago, but now there's seemingly a ton of them happily willing to shell out even more dough for notably inferior Origins figures. If Mattel let Super7 resume making Classics I'd bet with utter confidence that they would sell out, no matter how obscure the characters get.
    Classics was lucky to last as long as it did.

    It would be cool if Mattel brought Classics back but not Super 7.

    Personally I will be happy enough just colelcting the Masterverse figures.

  24. #824
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Super 7 teased a wave 5 figure today. Sewer Samurai Leonardo! He was my favorite of the original variant turtles.
    cogito ergo doleo

  25. #825
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    Super 7 teased a wave 5 figure today. Sewer Samurai Leonardo! He was my favorite of the original variant turtles.
    Yes. I'll assume we'll get a Turtle variant in every wave going forward now.

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