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Thread: Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 173 Discussion - New He-Man cartoon & Kevin Smith

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    Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 173 Discussion - New He-Man cartoon & Kevin Smith

    Episode 173 of He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner is here!
    We hope you're hungry.

    Val Staples, Danielle Gelehrter, Nate Baertsch, and Rob Base are back to discuss He-Man and She-Ra.

    In this episode they discuss
    Power-Con 2019 recap,
    the plight of Rob Base,
    con crud,
    reveal of Masters of the Universe: Revelation cartoon,
    continuing from vintage MOTU stories,
    how the story will be handled,
    Rob David & Ted Biaselli,
    fans who doubt Kevin Smith,
    plot description,
    SJW,
    what to expect from the movie,
    voice actors for the new cartoon,
    new MOTU Origins figures,
    price point,
    Battle Ram,
    seeing the figures in Origins,
    articulation,
    collecting Origins,
    the term Origins,
    new minicomics,
    Masters of the WWE Universe,
    and much more!

    Also, don't forget the Roast Gooble Dinner iPhone App, which is great for organizing and downloading current and past episodes. Click here to get yours today!

    And if you have a comment or a question, please call us at (310) 933-5993 or at our Skype account "roastgooble" and leave a voicemail (in Skype, please go to Call Phones and enter roastgooble as the phone number and dial in. Please do not add roastgooble to your contact list as we won't accept the request. Sorry!) We'll try to work your voicemail into the show, so please call! Otherwise, you can e-mail us at gooble (at) he-man (dot) org. One or more of the hosts will read your e-mail on the show. Please keep e-mails short and sweet!

    So pull up your chair and fill up your plate! It's time to chow down on a tasty serving of fandom here on He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner!

    Recorded on August 29, 2019
    Runtime: 0 hour, 58 minutes, 28 seconds

    Direct link for Episode 173

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    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
    JVS3 = Val Staples = Power-Con, Event Director | He-Man.Org, Owner | Guy who has been fortunate to work on a LOT of MOTU & POP projects
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    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Can't wait to listen!

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    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    Ok so I listened to whole show. I'm a little bummed that Mattel did not ask Val to help with the mini comics for Origins. I know Mattel worked with Val before on some items, so I think this is kind of weird.

    On Origins, the elbows bother me when the arms are extended. They look weird. But other than that I really like them. I think Origins Trap Jaw looks better than the Classics version. I have a strong feeling that the Origins line is to promote the Revelation show, so mush so that the designs for the show are basically the same as the figures.

    I wonder how much the writers and Kevin Smith are going to be looking at the MYP/200X show and comics for reference. They keep saying something like "this is the continuation" or "this is the action and show you always wanted" but it seems like they are totally ignoring the MYP/200X show like it did not even exist.

    I also want to say how awesome it was that the Revelation show was, ahem, revealed at Powercon. I am so stoked for next year and I will make every effort to actually attend this time.
    "Everything comes to he who waits."

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    Heroic Warrior Creedog's Avatar
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    I’m with you Penny. The motu movie will be fine for what it is. But the revelations show is much more exciting to me.

    Edit: and I’m not trying to give the movie trouble. I’m excited for it too. It just won’t really be motu (which I’ve said here 100 times.).

    Here’s how I see the movie’s success possibilities (worst to best):

    1. Basically the 1987 movie part 2. Worst possible outcome. They use some names and concepts, but the movie is just terrible, and motu goes back into hibernation. This would be terrible, but then maybe we’d get a motu classics preorder before the movie hit Redbox

    2. GI Joe: rise of cobra level of success. Pretty decent-ish. Got 1+ sequels, a short toy line, plus some collector stuff going. Not really gi joe, but some charismatic actors saying and doing cool things, while being named duke. + snake eyes and storm shadow! I’d be happy if this was the outcome.

    3 Transfomers: the rise and fall of bayformers 1-6: this would be amazing for motu. All new generations of kids growing up with motu, even if it’s notu (see what I did there?). Spawns ip / product lines left and right, would really give motu longer legs in the pop culture of humanity, like decades more years really. This would be amazing. Literally amazing.

    But in my heart of hearts, what I really want, is iron man. If somehow the nee brothers could just somehow take my beloved, outdated, obscure, and (100% brutally honest) lame character of he-man, and make him relevant, super cool, amazingly charismatic, and still 100% true to his vintage character, then, THEN my friends, we would have something truly special. Make everyone else see, what I already see.

    Because Marvel did this with Ironman. Whom, in my opinion, was one of the lamest super heroes by far, before the mcu. Now, holy cow, iron man is the most popular and famous super hero of today. Bigger than Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man combined. They made us see how amazing iron man actually was the whole time. They didn’t need to change him. Mind blowing. I even enjoy ac/dc now. How??

    What if the nee brothers did this with he-man. Like really did it. Billions of dollars and tons of movies. And everyone loving he-man. And in 12 years time we look back and scoff at the motu drought years of today.

    This is actually possible. Maybe 1:50000000 gotta go ask dr strange... brb...
    Last edited by Creedog; September 4, 2019 at 08:34pm.

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    Do they talk about the Teela thing for Masters of the Universe: Revelation?
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    Heroic Warrior Creedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Do they talk about the Teela thing for Masters of the Universe: Revelation?
    Yeah, they re-iterated that Kevin Smith, on his podcast, told everyone to chill, this is a he-man show. But Val, oh my gosh, he almost got heated defending Teela as the lead! Bless his heart, I totally agree with him. But he usually doesn’t get that worked up on roast gooble. Although I’m sure he’s a crazy taskmaster behind the scenes putting Powercon together . He puts on that mean face from his Facebook profile.

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    Heroic Warrior Green Goddess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VZX View Post
    Ok so I listened to whole show. I'm a little bummed that Mattel did not ask Val to help with the mini comics for Origins. I know Mattel worked with Val before on some items, so I think this is kind of weird.

    On Origins, the elbows bother me when the arms are extended. They look weird. But other than that I really like them. I think Origins Trap Jaw looks better than the Classics version. I have a strong feeling that the Origins line is to promote the Revelation show, so mush so that the designs for the show are basically the same as the figures.

    I wonder how much the writers and Kevin Smith are going to be looking at the MYP/200X show and comics for reference. They keep saying something like "this is the continuation" or "this is the action and show you always wanted" but it seems like they are totally ignoring the MYP/200X show like it did not even exist.

    I also want to say how awesome it was that the Revelation show was, ahem, revealed at Powercon. I am so stoked for next year and I will make every effort to actually attend this time.
    If course they should ignore it. As good as it was, that was a different continuity.
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    Argenternian heavy-eternium's Avatar
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    Good talk,can't wait for the next RGD!

    Val Is it just your feeling that the MOTU movie is going to be a popcorn movie for general audience or you have some info?

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    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavy-eternium View Post
    Good talk,can't wait for the next RGD!

    Val Is it just your feeling that the MOTU movie is going to be a popcorn movie for general audience or you have some info?
    More like a well-educated guess. A MOTU movie cannot be anything but a popcorn flick aimed at the masses, IMO. If it tries to be anything else, it risks massively falling flat on its face. I mean, it could fall flat on its face regardless. But if it tries to be a grim, brooding, character study (hello BVS) the risk would be far greater.
    Last edited by Krueger; September 4, 2019 at 09:50pm.

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    Argenternian heavy-eternium's Avatar
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    I'm relating popcorn movie with bad movies like Bayformers or the mummy, maybe a little prejudiced about the term
    But if endgame or far from home gets into the range of popcorn movies ,awesome lol.

  11. #11
    Shezar in MOTUC please! The All American's Avatar
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    Listened today.

    Man, sorry to hear about Rob Base's job hold-up.

    I feel that same as Danielle on Origins, it just doesn't grab me. I've already got my vintage figures and superior sculpts/articulation in Classics.

    On the name Origins, I don't feel like it's deceptive or misleading in having recreations of the vintage toys like with Trap-Jaw. The 1983 Trap-Jaw toy was the original character toy portrayal to a mass audience. Since then, we've gotten other versions in 200x, Classics, etc... Origins seems like an appropriate name to me. The origins of those characters are the vintage toy designs.

    On the Teela-SJW stuff, a focus on Teela in the cartoon is fine with me, but I think the complaint from some is that they don't want Teela (or anyone else) to be the focus over He-Man which takes away the importance/focus of the main character (He-Man). Like if you made a new Alien series with Ripley but instead she was not the main focus, but instead Bishop or Hicks is.

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    Heroic Warrior AlternativeMindz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    Listened today.

    Man, sorry to hear about Rob Base's job hold-up.

    I feel that same as Danielle on Origins, it just doesn't grab me. I've already got my vintage figures and superior sculpts/articulation in Classics.

    On the name Origins, I don't feel like it's deceptive or misleading in having recreations of the vintage toys like with Trap-Jaw. The 1983 Trap-Jaw toy was the original character toy portrayal to a mass audience. Since then, we've gotten other versions in 200x, Classics, etc... Origins seems like an appropriate name to me. The origins of those characters are the vintage toy designs.

    On the Teela-SJW stuff, a focus on Teela in the cartoon is fine with me, but I think the complaint from some is that they don't want Teela (or anyone else) to be the focus over He-Man which takes away the importance/focus of the main character (He-Man). Like if you made a new Alien series with Ripley but instead she was not the main focus, but instead Bishop or Hicks is.
    Thank you we hated missing an amazing convention but next year is around the corner.

    The new series is called Masters of the universe revelations, I believe the focus will be on the world not just Teela or He-man.

    The old series had He-man in the title. But, it's just all theories right now.

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    Heroic Warrior Creedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeMindz View Post
    Thank you we hated missing an amazing convention but next year is around the corner.

    The new series is called Masters of the universe revelations, I believe the focus will be on the world not just Teela or He-man.

    The old series had He-man in the title. But, it's just all theories right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creedog View Post
    Yeah, they re-iterated that Kevin Smith, on his podcast, told everyone to chill, this is a he-man show. But Val, oh my gosh, he almost got heated defending Teela as the lead! Bless his heart, I totally agree with him. But he usually doesn’t get that worked up on roast gooble. Although I’m sure he’s a crazy taskmaster behind the scenes putting Powercon together . He puts on that mean face from his Facebook profile.
    I'm not going to condemn the guy if that's what he wants. I only ask that Smith be honest and not be cagey about it if that's the show he wants to make.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post

    On the Teela-SJW stuff, a focus on Teela in the cartoon is fine with me, but I think the complaint from some is that they don't want Teela (or anyone else) to be the focus over He-Man which takes away the importance/focus of the main character (He-Man). Like if you made a new Alien series with Ripley but instead she was not the main focus, but instead Bishop or Hicks is.
    I'm not even sure this is some sort of SJW issue. It's just that Smith has basically said like this is a what if the original series had continued on for another season. And then there's a synopsis implying as if Teela is the main central character who has to solve a mystery. If you make a new Masters of the Universe show, there's still an expectation that He-Man is either the lead or the central character most of the show revolves around. Some doubt has been shed on that.

    I dunno. When Smith talks, it's hard to get a read on where he's going here. I'm just trying to get some clarification.
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    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    How did this show come about? Did Kevin Smith pitch it as showrunner to Mattel as a continuation of the classic series and they jumped at the opportunity, or did the idea germinate from Mattel itself and they sought out a well known, established name to give the project legitimacy and hype right from the start? Either way it's a brilliant strategy.

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    Broncos lovin' admin! dorrmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    How did this show come about? Did Kevin Smith pitch it as showrunner to Mattel as a continuation of the classic series and they jumped at the opportunity, or did the idea germinate from Mattel itself and they sought out a well known, established name to give the project legitimacy and hype right from the start? Either way it's a brilliant strategy.
    I believe he explains it in the panel.


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    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Just listened to the podcast. Wow, once again the "if you're put off by a secondary character upstaging the main character then you must be threatened by women" nonsense.

    I would have been just as annoyed if a new She-Ra cartoon was pitched as "Bow's quest for the Sword of Protection" but no we need to hear how anyone with a different opinion *must* be a mysogynist. Gotta spin that narrative and signal those virtues at every opportunity I guess.

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    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    Just listened to the podcast. Wow, once again the "if you're put off by a secondary character upstaging the main character then you must be threatened by women" nonsense.

    I would have been just as annoyed if a new She-Ra cartoon was pitched as "Bow's quest for the Sword of Protection" but no we need to hear how anyone with a different opinion *must* be a mysogynist. Gotta spin that narrative and signal those virtues at every opportunity I guess.
    And where has anyone said in any official capacity that Teela will upstage He-Man? No where, that's where.
    This is some fans putting the cart before the horse, yet again. It's a needless knee-jerk reaction that is typical of some fandom.

    Meanwhile, we have a whole group of fans for years who have spoken up again and again how MOTU is about the whole cast of characters and not just He-Man. So Teela playing an important role is indicative of the MOTU universe.

    But that's not what was being addressed in the podcast. Like we talked about on the show, we're talking about the people online who specifically have an issue with a female character being important, diving into SJW rhetoric. I've seen numerous remarks that focus directly on a female character being important in the new cartoon. And that's what is nonsense.
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    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    And where has anyone said in any official capacity that Teela will upstage He-Man? No where, that's where.
    This is some fans putting the cart before the horse, yet again. It's a needless knee-jerk reaction that is typical of some fandom.

    Meanwhile, we have a whole group of fans for years who have spoken up again and again how MOTU is about the whole cast of characters and not just He-Man. So Teela playing an important role is indicative of the MOTU universe.

    But that's not what was being addressed in the podcast. Like we talked about on the show, we're talking about the people online who specifically have an issue with a female character being important, diving into SJW rhetoric. I've seen numerous remarks that focus directly on a female character being important in the new cartoon. And that's what is nonsense.
    Fair enough. Thanks for the reply. The fandom has benefited tremendously from your efforts over the years so you of all people deserve the benefit of the doubt. However the only "official" description of the show that has been released (the one Kevin Smith read at Power-Con) has indeed indicated that at least initially it will focus primarily on Teela and her quest for the sword vs. He-Man himself.

    Do I personally think that that means that she'll be THE main star of the show? Based on the panel no, I didn't get that vibe at all. But the official blurb *is* suspect, especially in the current year where "reverse sexism" is all the rage in Hollywood, comics, and other media. You know, emasculate men while elevating women above them and then with a wave of the hand dismiss any dissenting opinions as "threatened," sexist, mysogynistic, etc.

    Promote *actual equality* and not this third wave feminist crap and all will be fine. And I don't even mean a literal 100% equality with regard to screen time, powers, etc. I'm fine with there being Teela-centric episodes (I and most other MOTU fans actually love the character) just like the great "Teela's Quest" episodes in Filmation. That's all great. I've always been fine with She-Ra basically being as buff as He-Man *plus* having healing and animal empathy powers with a sword that does even more tricks than He-Man's. That's not the issue.

    The question is did they simply pick Teela out of a hat of awesome characters to be the initial focus of the show or did they do it *just* because she's a girl? Since it's 2019 I suspect it could very well be the latter but I sincerely hope not because it would be such a disservice to her character if she was reduced to nothing more than a pawn for identity politics.

    You called out Ripley yourself plus there's Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, She-Ra, Lara Croft, Princess Leia, Ahsoka Tano and on and on and on. All MOTU fans who like Teela probably like all those female characters too. We just don't want this show to be another agenda driven political thing and I was surprised to hear you spouting the "threatened by women" rhetoric because it is *so* easily debunked.
    Last edited by Khev; September 6, 2019 at 10:53am.

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    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    You called out Ripley yourself plus there's Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, She-Ra, Lara Croft, Princess Leia, Ahsoka Tano and on and on and on. I was just surprised to hear you spouting the "threatened by women" rhetoric because it is *so* easily debunked.
    Except some men appear to be threatened, or at least have some sort of issue with women. You see hateful comments from men all the time online directed at women who are presented in a powerful role in entertainment, be it live-action, animation, written story, etc. You say it's easily debunked, yet, there are men who keep making remarks with nothing to justify their position. It's more confusing when we consider how we've had strong female characters, even leads in story, for decades.

    I completely understand someone not being a fan of making a female character more important than others just to do it, especially when the canon had not previously established this level of importance of the female character. But, we've seen nothing to indicate this is happening in the new cartoon. Even Smith talked on his show after Power-Con where he let fans know not to read too much into the Teela description. So at this point, Teela's level of importance in the new cartoon is just fan speculation.

    Do I personally think that that means that she'll be THE main star of the show? Based on the panel no, I didn't get that vibe at all. But the official blurb *is* suspect, especially in the current year where "reverse sexism" is all the rage in Hollywood, comics, and other media.
    I don't think it's suspect at all. It's just a summary to give a lead-in to the story of the cartoon.

    But let's not forget that, like we talked about on the show, Teela is an important character. She is Captain of the Royal Guard, she's trained Adam, she's a potential love interest for Adam, and she's the next in line to be the Guardian of Castle Grayskull. She's immensely important!
    That said, there's still nothing there to suggest she's upstaging He-Man or anyone else in the new MOTU cartoon.
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    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Except some men appear to be threatened, or at least have some sort of issue with women. You see hateful comments from men all the time online directed at women who are presented in a powerful role in entertainment, be it live-action, animation, written story, etc. You say it's easily debunked, yet, there are men who keep making remarks with nothing to justify their position. It's more confusing when we consider how we've had strong female characters, even leads in story, for decades.

    I completely understand someone not being a fan of making a female character more important than others just to do it, especially when the canon had not previously established this level of importance of the female character. But, we've seen nothing to indicate this is happening in the new cartoon. Even Smith talked on his show after Power-Con where he let fans know not to read too much into the Teela description. So at this point, Teela's level of importance in the new cartoon is just fan speculation.


    I don't think it's suspect at all. It's just a summary to give a lead-in to the story of the cartoon.

    But let's not forget that, like we talked about on the show, Teela is an important character. She is Captain of the Royal Guard, she's trained Adam, she's a potential love interest for Adam, and she's the next in line to be the Guardian of Castle Grayskull. She's immensely important!
    That said, there's still nothing there to suggest she's upstaging He-Man or anyone else in the new MOTU cartoon.
    Well I think that a big problem these days, especially on the internet, are the sweeping extremes and narrative spinning, on both sides of any debate. Of course any claim that women can't be just as important to a story as men is wrong but what percentage of fans ever really say that? Certainly not the majority. So why throw out the notion that *everyone* who is concerned is just a man who's threatened by women. I mean the flip side certainly doesn't work because like I said I'd be annoyed if Bow upstaged She-Ra or even if He-Man took a back seat to any other male character on an ongoing basis (like I said I have no problem with one-off stories that focus on peripheral characters since those can be fun breaks from the adventures of the main character.)

    With regard to Teela she is *so* OG, I mean she's basically the "Princess Leia" (capable badass female who fights right alongside the main hero) of MOTU that I really doubt that any longtime fans of the franchise would be put off with her sharing the limelight with He-Man every episode. I've got to assume that any consternation you're seeing about the announcement are focused on concerns that they're "going woke" and putting gender politics above good story-telling and escapist entertainment. If her prominence is organic and well written then vitually no one would cry foul to that.

    Sure it's early to say "oh no, the show is ruined!" Keep in mind I'm not saying that at all. Personally I'm quite looking forward to it even though I think that "anime" style was the wrong call for MOTU. They did that with NA He-Man and it just didn't feel like "true" He-Man. If I had my druthers they'd keep the rotoscoping but just up the production value through the roof in order to give us something more along the lines of Ralph Bakshi and Frank Frazetta's "Fire and Ice" animated flick. *That* would be my dream He-Man/She-Ra cartoon. But I digress.

    So yes I think that devaluing characters on account of them being female is wrong but I also think that it does a disservice to longtime fans to dismiss any concerns with the sweeping "you're just threatened by women even though you've loved female characters in MOTU and other media your whole lives." That to me is equally wrong. And that's why I say it's easily debunked. Because we *have* loved strong females characters for decades, including Teela herself. :-)
    Last edited by Khev; September 6, 2019 at 11:19am.

  22. #22
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    But I also think that it does a disservice to longtime fans to dismiss any concerns with the sweeping "you're just threatened by women even though you've loved female character in MOTU and other media your whole lives." That to me is equally wrong. And that's why I say it's easily debunked. Because we *have* loved strong females characters for decades, including Teela herself. :-)
    I don't see how it is a disservice at all. The only people who were addressed are the men who clearly have an issue with women as important characters.
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    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Dang it you keep responding while I'm updating my posts, lol.

    To shift gears for just a second I added that line about rotoscoping vs. anime. What's your take on animation styles for MOTU? Out with the old (rotoscoping) and in with the new (anime)? Or like me would you love to see someone go full Ralph Backshi with He-Man?

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    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    Dang it you keep responding while I'm updating my posts, lol.

    To shift gears for just a second I added that line about rotoscoping vs. anime. Out with the old (rotoscoping) and in with the new (anime)? Or like me would you love to see someone go full Ralph Backshi with He-Man?
    Tough call. For me, there's a beauty to the old school rotoscoping. That said, when you look at examples of it, it's fairly stiff in that it's often a single framed piece of action, usually for a brief moment. And it may feel dated to newer audiences.

    To be competitive with modern animation, I feel they'd have to turn the dial up to 11 for rotoscoping. And where I think an entire action sequence that is rotoscoped would be gorgeous, I doubt it's feasible. I think it's both cost and time preventative to pay to choreograph and film an entire action sequence and then rotoscope it.

    I suspect that's one more reason to go with someone like Powerhouse who is US based but specialized in styles that have roots in Eastern Asian animation. They can amp up the action, and also trend towards what is popular in today's animation.

    For me, I love both approaches you listed. Being an artist, I find beauty in most styles. I wasn't as flexible in my appreciation when I was younger. But as I get older, and as I always learn more about what can be done with different approaches to art thus exposing myself to other techniques, I have gone on to develop a respect for a wide range of artistic styles.
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  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    I agree that for rotoscoping to work today you'd want consistency from frame to frame and treat it as a theatrical release with no reused footage which I assume would be mighty expensive. But I can dream. The look of NA He-Man and Netflix She-Ra just don't feel "correct" to me with regard to those characters but having said that it isn't a dealbreaker where I'm completely closed off to other styles.

    I'm definitely looking forward to the new show. Since it *will* be more anime-styled (to the point where they felt the need to even call it out as such) then I hope that much more that they retain the characters' vintage designs at least. They did say that they want the original box art paintings to come to life so I'm definitely curious to see how close they'll come to pulling that off.

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