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Thread: Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 173 Discussion - New He-Man cartoon & Kevin Smith

  1. #26
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Maybe they'll do the best of both worlds!
    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior DC_WARLORD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Tough call. For me, there's a beauty to the old school rotoscoping.
    Cool! I thought I was the only person who appreciated it.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior wayne-klops's Avatar
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    Rob, it's really upsetting to hear how your job treated you over this! If you're like me, this is THE highlight of the year, and you do what you can to make it. From what you've said in past episodes, it sounds like you've been there for a very long time and have been very dedicated, and for them to pull something like this is maddening. I'm glad you put up a fight, though!

    I'm also happy to hear Val & company rightfully rag on the people already getting triggered off of the description of the new MOTU series. Isn't Teela finding out Adam's secret something we've been dying to see for 30 years?!? Everyone fawns over Teela until they speculate she *might* have a heightened focus, because of course they do, it's 2019 and that's what you do these days. Luckily, witnessing that panel live, there was overwhelming enthusiasm and happiness over this new show, so I know the majority of fans are quite excited for this.

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  4. #29
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    I'm also happy to hear Val & company rightfully rag on the people already getting triggered off of the description of the new MOTU series.
    It's not that, though. The people having a knee-jerk reaction about one character possibly getting a spotlight over He-Man, I understand even though that concern is based purely on speculation.
    It's only the people who have some sort of agenda against women we have an issue with, and we were addressing. And there's been some pretty nasty remarks online about Teela, and women's rights, and social justice, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DC_WARLORD View Post
    Cool! I thought I was the only person who appreciated it.
    I think a lot of people love rotoscoping, especially from our generation. There's a wonderful art to it.
    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior wayne-klops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    It's not that, though. The people having a knee-jerk reaction about one character possibly getting a spotlight over He-Man, I understand even though that concern is based purely on speculation.
    It's only the people who have some sort of agenda against women we have an issue with, and we were addressing. And there's been some pretty nasty remarks online about Teela, and women's rights, and social justice, etc.



    I think a lot of people love rotoscoping, especially from our generation. There's a wonderful art to it.
    That's what I mean. They take an innocent description and extrapolate it into something it's not, and turn it into something they have a problem with. MOTU has always had a social justice element to it, especially the Filmation series, but it can also be found in some of the mini comics. That wasn't a problem for decades until suddenly in the past few years some have decided to turn it into a bad thing.

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  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    MOTU has always had a social justice element to it, especially the Filmation series, but it can also be found in some of the mini comics. That wasn't a problem for decades until suddenly in the past few years some have decided to turn it into a bad thing.
    Filmation's promotion of equality was *nothing* like the wacko, bigoted, segregationist "social justice" of today.

    Look at this excerpt from the She-Ra writer's bible that Melendy Britt posted to her Facebook page:

    filmation pop.png

    Just read those last couple lines. Celebrate the female characters but not by neglecting the males. And "strive always for a *true* equality [emphasis mine] of characters, thinking of our people as just that, people, regardless of sex differences."

    But modern SJW's don't want true equality. They want "revenge against the patriarchy" and if you're white or a masculine male or a feminine female then you are by definition "problematic" and subject for replacement preferably by a sexually androgynous LGBTQ non-white individual. And *that* is the nonsense that people are accustomed to seeing and appropriately rejecting these days. The total antithesis of values of most normal folks and yes the original Filmation series for both He-Man and She-Ra. And it absolutely puts people on alert when they read an announcement that a female character will be the focus of a cartoon that previously began and ended with a man in the limelight and for good reason. A foreboding sense of "oh brother here we go" is nothing if not justified these days. Not that that *will* be the case with the new MOTU show since the jury's out until it airs. As I've said before Teela's anything but a last second SJW creation made for the sole purpose of supplanting the established male, no she's OG like Princess Leia and any longtime fan of the Filmation series knows that the best episodes in the entire series tended to focus on her. So as far as I'm concerned she's earned it.

    Getting back to "social justice" and the original cartoons you and I both know that neither He-Man nor She-Ra would *ever* adopt the mindset that "two wrongs make a right" and use that as an excuse to openly mock or criticize people simply based on their skin color, gender, and sexuality (the calling card of anti-"cis white male" SJW's) or for having traditional and/or conservative values. They were aspirational heroes in the truest sense, the epitome of compassion, altruism and unconditional acceptance. The only thing they ever fought against were those people who tried to destroy the world in order to remake it in their image (Skeletor and Hordak) which are the exact tactics of modern day SJW's who live to infect every IP and franchise they can only to tear it down and remake it with their radical "progressive," highly bigoted and intolerant ideals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    I think a lot of people love rotoscoping, especially from our generation. There's a wonderful art to it.
    Can you imagine He-Man and She-Ra realized in the same manner as Bakshi's "Fire and Ice?" Oh man, that would be absolute perfection. I think that anime is great for IP's like Voltron since that show was anime to begin with but I really wish that the Netflix show was pursuing an aesthetic style that would be more homogeneous with Filmation. Because even if it turns out to be a well done show I'm not sure how "connected" it will feel with such a radically different look for every frame. I guess we'll see.
    Last edited by Khev; September 7, 2019 at 05:20pm.

  7. #32
    Heroic Warrior AlternativeMindz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne-klops View Post
    Rob, it's really upsetting to hear how your job treated you over this! If you're like me, this is THE highlight of the year, and you do what you can to make it. From what you've said in past episodes, it sounds like you've been there for a very long time and have been very dedicated, and for them to pull something like this is maddening. I'm glad you put up a fight, though!

    I'm also happy to hear Val & company rightfully rag on the people already getting triggered off of the description of the new MOTU series. Isn't Teela finding out Adam's secret something we've been dying to see for 30 years?!? Everyone fawns over Teela until they speculate she *might* have a heightened focus, because of course they do, it's 2019 and that's what you do these days. Luckily, witnessing that panel live, there was overwhelming enthusiasm and happiness over this new show, so I know the majority of fans are quite excited for this.

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    Teela is supposed to be very smart and strong. I've hated how shows and comics dumb down side characters lois lane, biggest example of a smart strong woman who turned out to be an idiot for not figuring out a secret identity for almost 50 plus years ( in the late 80s she figured it out but still)

    Teela and the MOTU world don't need the shazam/Superman secret identity story arc and going forward I want to see the others shine more.

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeMindz View Post
    Thank you, jobs suck but they pay the bills. Next year will be different!


    Teela is supposed to be very smart and strong. I've hated how shows and comics dumb down side characters lois lane, biggest example of a smart strong woman who turned out to be an idiot for not figuring out a secret identity for almost 50 plus years ( in the late 80s she figured it out but still)

    Teela and the MOTU world don't need the shazam/Superman secret identity story arc and going forward I want to see the others shine more.

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    I completely agree. Teela is supposed to become the Sorceress someday and is very important to the mythos. I really liked how the DC Comics handled that and even though I don't expect the Netflix series to do the same thing, it is encouraging that to see that we may get to see her and possibly others share the spotlight more. Personally, I think the whole secret identity should be done away with because I think the idea that this secret protects loved ones from enemies is kind of pointless for the future king of Eternia who will always attract enemies, but if the show does not dare to go that far, at least have Teela share in the secret.

  9. #34
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    So does this mean that Teela is the lead character now?
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  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    So does this mean that Teela is the lead character now?
    Maybe for the first few episodes but I don't think that will be the case for the whole show. They probably just chose her to have the "revelation" of who Adam really is and so therefore will spend some time allowing us to see things from her point of view.

    It would be interesting if the show almost never focused on He-Man and instead presented him through the eyes of not just Teela but many different characters as a force of nature who comes and goes when needed.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    Maybe for the first few episodes but I don't think that will be the case for the whole show. They probably just chose her to have the "revelation" of who Adam really is and so therefore will spend some time allowing us to see things from her point of view.

    It would be interesting if the show almost never focused on He-Man and instead presented him through the eyes of not just Teela but many different characters as a force of nature who comes and goes when needed.
    It's speculation though. The synopsis does make things confusing.
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  12. #37
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    For me, there's a beauty to the old school rotoscoping.
    Absolutely.

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  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Absolutely.

    Three words: Fire And Ice.


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    Great minds. As I've mentioned several times in this very thread Fire and Ice (which coincidentally hit theaters just a couple weeks prior to the first airing of He-Man) would be absolutely perfect for a "big budget Filmation" adaptation. It's hard not to think of Prince Adam when watching Larn, or Skeletor and Evil-Lyn taking the place of Nekron and Juliana and so on. Even the landscapes and mountain fortresses feel very MOTU-esque.

    Man just imagining He-Man and Battlecat silhouetted on a ridge like Darkwolf on his horse...

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior Razzerian's Avatar
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    Just to come back to Teela for a second here, I saw a lot of "hey is this going to be about He-Man or Teela" sort of reactions so far.

    But honestly, when I read it, I was thinking more along the lines of... "it's Lois Lane finally discovering who Superman really is". Those stories, I feel, are always fun. No? So why wouldn't that be an interesting story to tell here. And perhaps it's only really the first episode or two that tell that story.

    And besides, Teela was always a pretty important character in the lore, so I don't see why it should be a problem to make her an integral part of this new show.

    I do personally hope they tell a bit more of a romantic story between Teela & He-Man/Adam in this show.

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, no doubt Teela will discover who He-Man really is in this series.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    I can understand people not wanting another "Hot Rod/Lt. Falcon" situation like Transformers and GI Joe where a brand new character comes in and steels the limelight from the main hero or heroes but since Teela isn't new and I'm sure it'll just be for a few episodes as everyone is speculating I'm sure it will be fine.

  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior Razzerian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    I can understand people not wanting another "Hot Rod/Lt. Falcon" situation like Transformers and GI Joe where a brand new character comes in and steels the limelight from the main hero or heroes but since Teela isn't new and I'm sure it'll just be for a few episodes as everyone is speculating I'm sure it will be fine.
    Yeah I don't think that's what's happening here, I'm pretty sure the people working on this are well aware of what that would cause.

    Plus there is no insentive either like there was with Hot Rod back in the day (selling new toys). Mattel clearly want to push He-Man right now, not a new version of He-Man.

    And from watching the panel twice now, I really didn't get the sense that they were planning of alienating the hardcore fans, on the contrary. I've seen people here mentiont hat this will be aimed at kids but I really got the sense from the panel that this will definitely be catering to "us" too and I think on Netflix you can get away with a lot more than you would with Saturday morning cartoons.

    Honestly I think this will have a relatively serious tone, more so than the new She-Ra (which for the record, I actually like quite a bit but it's obviously targetted more at younger kids).

    With Kevin Smith's background I just have a hard time imagining this is a simple "kiddy" show, I'm certain there will be some really good stories being told here (otherwise why get Kevin Smith on board in the first place?).

  18. #43
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeMindz View Post
    Teela and the MOTU world don't need the shazam/Superman secret identity story arc
    Totally agreed that they can (should?) do away with the secret identity stuff. There's no need for it and most of the time it served no point in the stories and the tiresome repetitive routine of Adam suddenly remembering something else more important to do right when the bad guys were attacking and then He-Man, who looked just like Adam after some sunbathing, appearing out of nowhere, felt so forced and too much of a strain on one's suspension of disbelief (not to talk about the embarrassment of Teela never ever seeming to be able to figure anything out when it seemed so obvious).

    Netflix She-Ra has shown how the secret identity thing was unnecessary to tell the story of Adora and her relationship with the Sword of Protection. Let's hope Netflix He-Man finally does away with the secret identity thing for Adam and the Sword of Power. It was just an idea that DC introduced to begin with, rather than Mattel, obviously borrowing from Superman, and was thus not an original MotU concept and is nowhere to be found in the early minocomics. So I'm perfectly fine if they just finally decided to drop it. A lot of storyline silliness and character embarrassment would drop away with it too.
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  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Khev's Avatar
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    Maybe say that he gets a temporary boost in strength when holding his sword aloft and saying "by the power of Grayskull" but don't have it actually change his identity. That way they can retain his iconic catchphrase without him having a secret identity.

  20. #45
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    A Masters of the Universe show with a female lead? That could never work!

    Teela was the star of the the Fall of Grayskull fan film pretty much, and that was very cool. To be honest, as a character Teela has always had as much interesting stuff going on for her as anyone. In various canons she's depicted as having mysterious origins, enormous responsibility as the Captain of the Guard, and a great amount of pressure placed on her (whether it be living up to Duncan's legacy/ the Sorceress's legacy/ being betrothed to Adam). When it comes to heroes, Teela honestly has as much or more conflict in her character arc than He-Man. Personally, I find the idea of a Teela focused show/ character arc to be rather interesting.

    Actually, a cool way to approach a show would be to do multiple story arcs with a different focal character, kind of like Clone Wars. While He-Man has gotta be in it, it would be cool to take the time to explore other characters. I don't need anything overly dark or overly deep or anything, but getting to see different perspectives and different characters in the limelight would be wonderful.
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  21. #46
    THEIR KILLIN TEH LIEN !! uaxuctum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khev View Post
    Maybe say that he gets a temporary boost in strength when holding his sword aloft and saying "by the power of Grayskull" but don't have it actually change his identity. That way they can retain his iconic catchphrase without him having a secret identity.
    I didn't say they should drop the catch phrase and the "change of state" between "normal Adam" and "Adam powered-up as He-Man by the Sword of Power activated by his magical catchphrase". I referenced what Netflix She-Ra did in this respect and that's exactly it: "normal Adora" versus "Adora powered up as She-Ra by the Sword of Protection activated by her magical catchphrase". Just without the need to keep it a secret.

    The thing is, Adora in Netflix didn't feel any need to keep it all secret from anyone. In fact, when she appears in Brightmoon to pledge herself to the Rebellion as She-Ra, she feels it absolutely ethically necessary to "come clean" and reveal her true identity as a former Horde soldier in front of everyone there, before Queen Angella made her decision whether to accept her on their side or not. That made for a great scene, and seemed much more logical than Adora trying to hide her identity as She-Ra for no purpose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbecue17 View Post
    Actually, a cool way to approach a show would be to do multiple story arcs with a different focal character, kind of like Clone Wars. While He-Man has gotta be in it, it would be cool to take the time to explore other characters. I don't need anything overly dark or overly deep or anything, but getting to see different perspectives and different characters in the limelight would be wonderful.
    That's exactly what they've done in Netflix She-Ra, where there isn't just one focal character in the limelight with "side accompaniments", but instead a symphony of full-fledged story arcs interplaying into a complex drama where the viewers become as much involved in what's happening to Adora/She-Ra as they are about the character arcs of Catra or Shadow Weaver or Entrapta. It makes it all so much more interesting, and we get to see the characters as multifaceted "real-life" people that aren't reduced to simplistic black-or-white manichean pigeon-holing as either "good ones" or "bad ones", but rather have complex personalities sliding over the full greyscale spectrum.
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