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Thread: Mattel is releasing a Gender-Neutral Doll

  1. #1
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Mattel is releasing a Gender-Neutral Doll

    The doll can be a boy, a girl, neither or both, and Mattel, which calls this the world’s first gender-neutral doll, is launching it on Sept. 25, 2019.

    https://time.com/5684822/mattel-gender-neutral-doll/

    I found this article rather interesting.

    Any thoughts?
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    Master of Physics VZX's Avatar
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    Before people get upset about social-justice-warriors and all that, Mattel is a company with the sole purpose of making a profit from toys. I really do not think they care to change the world and all that. They see how popular this sort of thing is and is trying out a gender-neutral doll to see if it sells. Money talks.
    "Everything comes to he who waits."

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    Broncos lovin' admin! dorrmann's Avatar
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    Just a nice, friendly mod reminder here.

    This thread is perfectly fine where it is. However, everyone please remember that political, religious, sexuality talk need to be kept in the Tar Swamp. If you want to start a "deeper" conversation there, please feel free.

  4. #4
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    I think it looks cool.

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    Heroic Warrior Lich Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    The doll can be a boy, a girl, neither or both, and Mattel, which calls this the world’s first gender-neutral doll, is launching it on Sept. 25, 2019.

    https://time.com/5684822/mattel-gender-neutral-doll/

    I found this article rather interesting.

    Any thoughts?
    It's the Zodac of genders!

    Interesting concept.

  6. #6
    Master of New Adventures!
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    I don't get it.

    I've lived too long. I'm too old. I'm irrelevant. I'm obsolete...

  7. #7
    Heroic Warrior Riddle of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorrmann View Post
    Just a nice, friendly mod reminder here.

    This thread is perfectly fine where it is. However, everyone please remember that political, religious, sexuality talk need to be kept in the Tar Swamp. If you want to start a "deeper" conversation there, please feel free.
    Yea, I think that this belongs in the Tar Swamp because anything other then a comment of "Yey" and along those lines will never float. I don't simply see how any sort of actual in depth conversation on this topic can ever survive in this element.

  8. #8
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I don't get it.

    I've lived too long. I'm too old. I'm irrelevant. I'm obsolete...
    It is a doll that comes with a selection of clothing and hairstyles so that children can gender it however they wish.

  9. #9
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    I don't really see the point in it. Kids can already get female or male dolls to style however they like.
    Quite frankly I don't think gender neutrality or transgender is something that should be taught or marketed towards children.

  10. #10
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Why have a globe with countries on it? Why not have it just be a ball and we draw in our own countries? Why have constellations? Why not just makes stars in the sky on our own? Why have presidents' heads on Mt. Rushmore? Why not just chisel them in like we want?

    If I'm playing poker and I pick up five cards, I want them to have clubs and hearts and spades and diamonds and numbers on them. I don't want to fill in the symbols on a blank card myself. Nothing wrong with making up a new game, I guess. But I really enjoy poker.

    Again, as I said, I know I'm an aging dinosaur, but I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It is a doll that comes with a selection of clothing and hairstyles so that children can gender it however they wish.
    - - - Updated - - -

    When I was a child, growing up, the challenge was to make children grow up faster. Now the challenge is to keep them younger longer. Isn't there enough time a little latter for them too deal with all this stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I don't really see the point in it. Kids can already get female or male dolls to style however they like.
    Quite frankly I don't think gender neutrality or transgender is something that should be taught or marketed towards children.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; September 27, 2019 at 04:38pm.

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Why have a globe with countries on it? Why not have it just be a ball and we draw in our own countries? Why have constellations? Why not just makes stars in the sky on our own? Why have presidents' heads on Mt. Rushmore? Why not just chisel them in like we want?

    If I'm playing poker and I pick up five cards, I want them to have clubs and hearts and spades and diamonds and numbers on them. I don't want to fill in the symbols on a blank card myself. Nothing wrong with making up a new game, I guess. But I really enjoy poker.

    Again, as I said, I know I'm an aging dinosaur, but I just don't get it.



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    When I was a child, growing up, the challenge was to make children grow up faster. Now the challenge is to keep them younger longer. Isn't there enough time a little latter for them too deal with all this stuff?
    I agree with you 100%. There is no way children (or anyone really) should be "choosing" their gender. You are what ever gender you are born.
    Children should be brought up as normal as possible without their toys pushing agendas.

  12. #12
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Why have a globe with countries on it? Why not have it just be a ball and we draw in our own countries? Why have constellations? Why not just makes stars in the sky on our own? Why have presidents' heads on Mt. Rushmore? Why not just chisel them in like we want?
    You understand that the boundaries of countries, the patterns of constellations, and the distinct likenesses in a particular sculpture are all entirely made up, right? In all of those instances, the continents, the stars, and the mountains were blank canvases, until human beings applied their imaginations to them. Just like this doll.

  13. #13
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    I agree. And it's a different world nowadays. Our two youngest children attend Catholic schools. I'm proud to say last year our 10-year old's English class focused on a book with a gay character. The character's gayness was not the issue. It simply was the way he was. Max told me no one was judgmental about it. We have always raised our children to believe that any times love exists between any two people it's a good thing.

    Kids today are mature enough at a fairly young age to make their own decisions. I don't think they need to be pushed one way or another. If boys want to play with Barbie and My Little Pony then great. And if girls want to play with Spider-man and Transformers then great. I don't think that's necessarily a definitive gender selection statement on their part, but if it happens to be then that's great, too, imo. Love and kindness and tolerance are all that really matters, I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I agree with you 100%. There is no way children (or anyone really) should be "choosing" their gender. You are what ever gender you are born.
    Children should be brought up as normal as possible without their toys pushing agendas.

  14. #14
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I don't really see the point in it. Kids can already get female or male dolls to style however they like.
    Quite frankly I don't think gender neutrality or transgender is something that should be taught or marketed towards children.
    It allows children the freedom to imagine the doll however they like instead of having a play pattern imposed on them. The only thing it is teaching them is creativity instead of adherence to rigid stereotypes.

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    It makes me sad that while kids with conditions they can't help, like downs syndrome, paraplegia, or kids in wheelchairs or with other disabilities have no doll that they can relate to or see themselves in, but body dysmorphia which is a scientifically proven mental condition, that could be treated with counselling and psychological help if the parents of the poor kids chose to go down that route, is normalised more and more every day. Itd be funny if it wasn't for the fact that kids are involved. On topic though, the dolls look like the new she ra dolls, nothing that's going to set the world on fire, which is probably the reason for the woke angle, get people talking, hating/defending etc.

  16. #16
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    Point well made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    You understand that the boundaries of countries, the patterns of constellations, and the distinct likenesses in a particular sculpture are all entirely made up, right? In all of those instances, the continents, the stars, and the mountains were blank canvases, until human beings applied their imaginations to them. Just like this doll.

  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It allows children the freedom to imagine the doll however they like instead of having a play pattern imposed on them. The only thing it is teaching them is creativity instead of adherence to rigid stereotypes.
    As someone who worked in Education, I will say there are far better ways to teach children creativity than warping them with gender neutral dolls. There are already plenty of male and female dolls they can be creative with. Why waste time making a doll look like a man or woman when you can just buy a male or woman doll.

  18. #18
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    One of the best things about he-man.org is to be surrounded by people far younger than me, who show me positions different from my own and cause me to reflect.

    Thank you for that, Adam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It allows children the freedom to imagine the doll however they like instead of having a play pattern imposed on them. The only thing it is teaching them is creativity instead of adherence to rigid stereotypes.
    - - - Updated - - -

    I think Adam makes the point that it fosters creativity.

    Many years ago there was a device called The Plot Wheel that was supposed to help writers write books. What it actually did was lead them into preconceived avenues for the 'creation' of 'original stories.' I far prefer opening a blank Word doc and going from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    As someone who worked in Education, I will say there are far better ways to teach children creativity than warping them with gender neutral dolls. There are already plenty of male and female dolls they can be creative with. Why waste time making a doll look like a man or woman when you can just buy a male or woman doll.

  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I agree. And it's a different world nowadays. Our two youngest children attend Catholic schools. I'm proud to say last year our 10-year old's English class focused on a book with a gay character. The character's gayness was not the issue. It simply was the way he was. Max told me no one was judgmental about it. We have always raised our children to believe that any times love exists between any two people it's a good thing.

    Kids today are mature enough at a fairly young age to make their own decisions. I don't think they need to be pushed one way or another. If boys want to play with Barbie and My Little Pony then great. And if girls want to play with Spider-man and Transformers then great. I don't think that's necessarily a definitive gender selection statement on their part, but if it happens to be then that's great, too, imo. Love and kindness and tolerance are all that really matters, I think...
    As a catholic who used to work in education at a high school I really don't think people should be trying to encourage children to be "creative" with their gender. That would just lead to a lot of problems and issues. You can't change what you are born.
    But girls and boys can play with whatever toys they like regardless of whom they are aimed at.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by davelove81 View Post
    It makes me sad that while kids with conditions they can't help, like downs syndrome, paraplegia, or kids in wheelchairs or with other disabilities have no doll that they can relate to or see themselves in, but body dysmorphia which is a scientifically proven mental condition, that could be treated with counselling and psychological help if the parents of the poor kids chose to go down that route, is normalised more and more every day. Itd be funny if it wasn't for the fact that kids are involved. On topic though, the dolls look like the new she ra dolls, nothing that's going to set the world on fire, which is probably the reason for the woke angle, get people talking, hating/defending etc.
    Oddly enough I seen a Barbie doll today in a wheel chair and thought how nice that would be for a child also in a wheel chair.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    One of the best things about he-man.org is to be surrounded by people far younger than me, who show me positions different from my own and cause me to reflect.

    Thank you for that, Adam.



    - - - Updated - - -

    I think Adam makes the point that it fosters creativity.

    Many years ago there was a device called The Plot Wheel that was supposed to help writers write books. What it actually did was lead them into preconceived avenues for the 'creation' of 'original stories.' I far prefer opening a blank Word doc and going from there.
    I get what Adam is saying about creativity and I have no issue at all with the fashion, hair, beard styling option on a toy. In fact I think that is pretty cool as I customized the looks of my G.I Joes/Action Man as they were all very similar. I just don't like the idea of teaching children they can pick and choose their gender.

  20. #20
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    Maybe you can't "change what you are born with" but is it healthy to suppress it? Perhaps this doll gives children with a different gender identification a chance to think about that in a non-threatening environment?

    And I'm not sure this is intended to direct children in picking and choosing their gender. I think they're born with that. I think it's simply a potentially healthy way for them not to suppress what already exists.

    This old, Conservative, Catholic, White dog is trying to be open to some new ways of thinking, hopefully to the benefit of children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    As a catholic who used to work in education at a high school I really don't think people should be trying to encourage children to be "creative" with their gender. That would just lead to a lot of problems and issues. You can't change what you are born.
    But girls and boys can play with whatever toys they like regardless of whom they are aimed at.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oddly enough I seen a Barbie doll today in a wheel chair and thought how nice that would be for a child also in a wheel chair.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I get what Adam is saying about creativity and I have no issue at all with the fashion, hair, beard styling option on a toy. In fact I think that is pretty cool as I customized the looks of my G.I Joes/Action Man as they were all very similar. I just don't like the idea of teaching children they can pick and choose their gender.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; September 27, 2019 at 06:14pm.

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    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mark M;3858251]

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oddly enough I seen a Barbie doll today in a wheel chair and thought how nice that would be for a child also in a wheel chair.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's actually really good to hear , I've not done a ton of research but I'll stand corrected on the wheelchair doll and say well done there Mattel .






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    Last edited by davelove81; September 27, 2019 at 06:29pm.

  22. #22
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    I want to band together with all my He-Man.org brothers and sisters and become gender neutral. Walking hand in hand. Bringing peace, love, and harmony to the world.

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Maybe you can't "change what you are born with" but is it healthy to suppress it? Perhaps this doll gives children with a different gender identification a chance to think about that in a non-threatening environment?

    And I'm not sure this is intended to direct children in picking and choosing their gender. I think they're born with that. I think it's simply a potentially healthy way for them not to suppress what already exists.

    This old, Conservative, Catholic, White dog is trying to be open to some new ways of thinking, hopefully to the benefit of children.
    I don't agree with gender neutrality etc but if any children with issues get some enjoyment and play out of them that's good....but I still don't think it is something that should be marketed to children.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=davelove81;3858254]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oddly enough I seen a Barbie doll today in a wheel chair and thought how nice that would be for a child also in a wheel chair.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's actually really good to hear , I've not done a ton of research but I'll stand corrected on the wheelchair doll and say well done there Mattel .






    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
    There hasn't been to many action figures of characters in wheelchairs. Aside from a couple Barbra Gordon and a few Professor X figures the only other ones I can think of are Joe from Family Guy and Stephen Hawkins from the Simpsons. I know there was a prototype for Garret from Extreme Ghostbusters that was never released.

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    There currently is a Barbie in wheelchair, saw it K-mart this past week. Monster high also had a character in one, but I recall them not being fully acquirable by everyone.

    As far as this doll goes, taking the whole human gender debate thing out of this, this isn't a bad idea. You buy your kid the figure and they put into the figure who they want them to be. In ways it sparks creativity, how many of you who make customs of action figures would have loved to have something like this when you were a kid?

    It's like a 'live' version of creating your character in most video games. And as I say in that context, not everyone views that as an extension of themselves, many of us use it as a means to understand others better. This can allow children to create their own unique characters instead of being told about the character sparking further creativity in children.
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