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Thread: Mattel is releasing a Gender-Neutral Doll

  1. #26
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Maybe you can't "change what you are born with" but is it healthy to suppress it? Perhaps this doll gives children with a different gender identification a chance to think about that in a non-threatening environment?

    And I'm not sure this is intended to direct children in picking and choosing their gender. I think they're born with that. I think it's simply a potentially healthy way for them not to suppress what already exists.

    This old, Conservative, Catholic, White dog is trying to be open to some new ways of thinking, hopefully to the benefit of children.
    I think a lot of people could learn from you in this thread. You saw something you didn't understand or particularly agree with. When presented with an opposing point from someone more familiar with the topic, you didn't just dig your heels in, you listened, absorbed the info and it changed your way of thought on the matter.

    That's a pretty damn cool 3 hour journey for anyone - let alone an "old dinosaur".

    I think the idea behind the toy is awesome. One of the most important things with toys (and media) is identification. For the majority of kids, they can identify easily with the majority of toys. But there are a lot of kids out there that aren't represented by the toy industry. I think its great a major company is willing to risk a PR storm for a toy that likely isn't going to make them a fortune, but could really help a specific group of kids.

  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Build-A-Barbie.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Regardless of any issues surrounding this, kids who are interested will largely be driven by the creative possibilities it represents. Having spent the better part of 20 years in (not religious) education, I can tell you that most kids will not see the social/religious/political aspects of this, so, in keeping to the Forum Rules, this thread should continue to focus on that.

    As stated by Dorrmann already, that’s for the Tar Swamp.

    I think my kid would get a kick out of this because of the customizing possibilities. I’ll show them to her later today to see what she thinks.
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  4. #29
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    I really like this concept and if you look at Mattel's output of the last few years this makes total. I think between loosing the Disney license, Barbie being Barbie with that entails and the toy market radically changing forced Mattel to innovate. Honestly I see this as a development of the Fashionista line, but I also see roots of this in Monster High, DC Super Hero Girls, and the She-Ra lines as well.

    Personally though I think this is just another stop along the way. I can see Mattel's end goal being personally customizable toys. Remember a few years back when Mattel was promoting their Thingmaker 3D printer, I think they realized the technology wasn't quite there yet so they reined it in. While I still expect them to try that concept again, I can also see a retail evolution of the idea. Imagine an online service or even a retail installation inside a major chain, that allows you to create your own one of a kind toy.

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMPS ADAM View Post
    I'm to old to offer an opinion
    Ha!

    Not touching THIS subject with a ten foot pole
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  6. #31
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    Thanks, BCI Guy. I may be older but I'm not yet dead. I'm always looking to learn and I've learned much from orgers through the years. One is never too old for growth, I think. In that regard I'm grateful to Adam in this thread, although I certainly respect everyone else's opinions and their right to them.

    What I am particularly grateful for is that Adam presented his opposing view in not only a well thought out manner, but also a respectful and civil one, not slamming me for my beliefs in the process. Imo, it's so much easier for a person to consider viewpoints different from one's own when they are presented in that manner. It reduces the potential for escalation and allows people to subjectively consider those different points of view. I think there are a lot of people who could learn from Adam in this thread.

    It's ironic that I've been striving for that -- sometimes failing myself -- for years in The Tar Swamp and yet it ends up taking place here in the Other thread. Kudos and props to dorrmann for letting us run with this for a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    I think a lot of people could learn from you in this thread. You saw something you didn't understand or particularly agree with. When presented with an opposing point from someone more familiar with the topic, you didn't just dig your heels in, you listened, absorbed the info and it changed your way of thought on the matter.

    That's a pretty damn cool 3 hour journey for anyone - let alone an "old dinosaur".

    I think the idea behind the toy is awesome. One of the most important things with toys (and media) is identification. For the majority of kids, they can identify easily with the majority of toys. But there are a lot of kids out there that aren't represented by the toy industry. I think its great a major company is willing to risk a PR storm for a toy that likely isn't going to make them a fortune, but could really help a specific group of kids.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; October 1, 2019 at 12:35pm.

  7. #32
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    It's a shame that Mattel didn't research the papers which reveal the potential damage caused by allowing children to believe in the non-binary / genderfluid nonsense.

    Let's not pretend Mattel are doing this for innocent reasons - they're following the trend of certain companies to use wokeness and virtue signalling as marketing tactics.

    Some people will love it, but people who care about their children's development and resilience in the real world will steer well clear.
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  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaultsofGrayskull View Post
    It's a shame that Mattel didn't research the papers which reveal the potential damage caused by allowing children to believe in the non-binary / genderfluid nonsense.

    Let's not pretend Mattel are doing this for innocent reasons - they're following the trend of certain companies to use wokeness and virtue signalling as marketing tactics.

    Some people will love it, but people who care about their children's development and resilience in the real world will steer well clear.
    But children won't see that, and I think a lot of parents won't, either. They'll just see a customisable toy that allows you to make it look however you want it to.

  9. #34
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    "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    But children won't see that, and I think a lot of parents won't, either. They'll just see a customisable toy that allows you to make it look however you want it to.

  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    It will depend on how it's promoted.
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  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior depp76's Avatar
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    I think it is an ingenious concept and I really don't care what anyone else thinks lol. I actually bought the blonde and copper set. It's a great idea.

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Not realizing the site was live to order yet till the above post

    https://www.mattel.com/en-us/creatable-world
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
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  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    It will depend on how it's promoted.
    I saw part of the video (by watching a You Tube video on it) that they made to promote it. 'Making play more inclusive.' They definitely have a certain agenda, but is it really shocking all things considering? The same agenda is being pushed in comics, TV, movies, cartoons, etc. We vote with our wallet and stick with vintage media and even that is limited. There is so much more fun things you can do with your time than be indoctrinated.

    Edited to add: I have said it before and I will say it again, the moment I see the world 'inclusive' being tossed about I back away from whatever it is. Some people look at that word positively, I do not. In theory the idea of inclusivity is amazing, but I cannot stand the way the concept has been *******ized.
    Last edited by IceyCat; October 6, 2019 at 09:35am.
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  14. #39
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    Mattel is a corporation. Mattel is a business. They have one primary agenda and that's to sell toys. How long do you think they would continue manufacturing this doll if it loses millions of dollars? The market drives their agenda. Always has, always will.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I saw part of the video (by watching a You Tube video on it) that they made to promote it. 'Making play more inclusive.' They definitely have a certain agenda, but is it really shocking all things considering? The same agenda is being pushed in comics, TV, movies, cartoons, etc. We vote with our wallet and stick with vintage media and even that is limited. There is so much more fun things you can do with your time than be indoctrinated.

    Edited to add: I have said it before and I will say it again, the moment I see the world 'inclusive' being tossed about I back away from whatever it is. Some people look at that word positively, I do not. In theory the idea of inclusivity is amazing, but I cannot stand the way the concept has been *******ized.

  15. #40
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    I do not know, Jack, but none of the other industries seem to be taking the hint. Mattel is already having problems financially, aren't they? We live in a VERY odd world!
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither!"

  16. #41
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    Wow, thanks for informing Icey of that, Olesker! I'm sure she's very grateful towards you!

  17. #42
    Unmotivated webcomicker KidTDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaultsofGrayskull View Post
    It's a shame that Mattel didn't research the papers which reveal the potential damage caused by allowing children to believe in the non-binary / genderfluid nonsense.
    Which papers are those?


    Quote Originally Posted by VaultsofGrayskull View Post
    Some people will love it, but people who care about their children's development and resilience in the real world will steer well clear.
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  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior thatbloodymikey's Avatar
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    guys! the Brunette with Wavy Hair comes with a JAWS T shirt. i am SOLD! everyones getting one for xmas

  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I do not know, Jack, but none of the other industries seem to be taking the hint. Mattel is already having problems financially, aren't they? We live in a VERY odd world!
    It could be seen as a hail mary from Mattel which as you said is having some financial problems.

    Their us of the word inclusive, I will just leave it simply at not an expression that gives me positive vibes, I see it often used in a passively aggressive and hateful way in response. Just because you point out the hate in someone else before they call your hate out, even if you are using words that aren't on the face hateful doesn't mean you are being any less hateful.

    That was more than I wanted to say on that though, because that does get close to that theme of the other board.


    --------------

    The dolls themselves, they look fine I think there could be more options in each 'kit' or more options outside of the initial 'kits'. My collecting of figures etc, can be summed up in that I almost passed on Alfred Pennyworth from DC multiverse because he's a guy in a suit. It's just so mundane really, that's what I see with these dolls outfits that are more or less just mundane. I do understand in ways they want to keep it simple at first at least.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  20. #45
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    Wyldman11 may have a valid point. Like any large company, they will have their problems, but I think they are overstated:

    Gross sales for 2018 were down 8%, but...

    Mattel Newsroom:

    Full year Net Sales of $4.51 billion; fourth quarter Net Sales of $1.52 billion.
    Mattel was the #1 global toy company in 2018, per NPD.
    Barbie® Gross Sales in the quarter increased 12% as reported and 15% in constant currency, versus prior year, marking the fifth consecutive quarter of growth; reached the brand's highest full year Gross Sales in the last five years.
    Hot Wheels® Gross Sales for the quarter increased 9% as reported and 12% in constant currency, versus prior year, and reached the brand's highest full year Gross Sales in its history.
    Reported Operating Income of $107 million in the fourth quarter, an improvement of $358 million, versus prior year; the largest year-over-year fourth quarter improvement since 2009.
    Achieved $521 million of run-rate cost savings exiting 2018 and expect to exceed cumulative $650 million run-rate cost savings target exiting 2019.
    Delivered Gross Margin of 46.6% in the fourth quarter and 39.8% in the full year.


    And...

    CNBC:

    Strong sales of Barbie dolls and Hot Wheels cars fueled Mattel’s profits in the fourth quarter, sending shares soaring as much as 20 percent after the closing bell Thursday.

    Mattel reported net income of $14.9 million, or 4 cents per share, compared with a loss of $281.3 million, or 82 cents per share, a year earlier. Analysts had expected the company to post a loss of 16 cents during the quarter, according to Refinitiv.

    Revenue fell 5.4 percent to $1.52 billion but still outpaced analysts’ estimates of $1.44 billion.

    “Our fourth quarter results demonstrate meaningful progress in executing our strategy and significant improvement over last year,” Ynon Kreiz, CEO of Mattel, said in a statement Thursday. “We remain focused on advancing our strategy to restore profitability and regain top-line growth in the short-to-mid-term and are laying the groundwork to capture the full value of our IP in the mid-to-long-term.”

    Sales of Barbie reached a five-year high, as sales jumped 12 percent during the quarter. This is the fifth consecutive quarter of growth for the doll brand.

    Hot Wheels toys also performed well during the holiday quarter, rising 9 percent.


    Unquestionably, TOYS R Us hurt them, as did the continuing movement toward electronics. But they are still the #1 toy manufacturer in the world and with 28,000 employees worldwide and over $5 Billion in assets, I think they have the ability to weather the storm.

    Time will tell.

    As an aside, I appreciate your civil discussion with me, Icey. Despite our sometimes disagreeing, the manner in which we disagree continues to be one of the cornerstones of our respectful friendship.




    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I do not know, Jack, but none of the other industries seem to be taking the hint. Mattel is already having problems financially, aren't they? We live in a VERY odd world!
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; October 6, 2019 at 08:48pm.

  21. #46
    Not my Tempo Fendi's Avatar
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    I think people got mad over this issue is that they only scratching the surface of the earth without knowing what's beneath it.

    NOT QUITE MY TEMPO

  22. #47
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Their us of the word inclusive, I will just leave it simply at not an expression that gives me positive vibes, I see it often used in a passively aggressive and hateful way in response. Just because you point out the hate in someone else before they call your hate out, even if you are using words that aren't on the face hateful doesn't mean you are being any less hateful.
    I mean this respectfully, I have no clue what you are saying. I do not hate anyone. In my personal experience, and in the experience of MANY of my friends and family, inclusivity rarely means what people say it is. It is a buzz word that is meant to make you feel a certain way, but it rarely ever means what is implied (again in MY personal experience).

    For example, my cousin is mixed race. His Mom is white and his Dad is black. For a while he ran with a crew in college (of ALL white folks mind you) that respected his 'world view and perspective' being a person of color. Well they did, up until this past election. My cousin (who was a staunch Democrat) decided to vote for Donald Trump.

    His college friends abandoned him, but not before telling him that his opinion no longer mattered because he was a slave to his whiteness. His super inclusive group that accepted anyone not only cast him out, but they made sure that other people were aware of his horrible transgression. The way he explains it is that he became a social leper on campus and ended up moving home.

    I can tell you countless other stories just like this one. In theory the idea of being inclusive looks good on paper, but the human element ALWAYS taints even the best ideas. People have become VERY tribal and inclusivity only extends to people who think a certain way or vote a certain way.

    Edited to add: I find it funny that there is this movement to force inclusion. I went to college in a pretty white bread town, but the school was great so it attracted a lot of students from NYC. Our campus was VERY diverse. I never had to be told to 'include' someone. My group of close friends in college was very diverse. I even had a trans friend LONG before it became socially acceptable.

    Sometimes when I view the world these days I am reminded of Gretchen Wieners from Mean Girls. Everyone seems to be trying to force 'fetch' to happen instead of allowing things to progress organically.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    As an aside, I appreciate your civil discussion with me, Icey. Despite our sometimes disagreeing, the manner in which we disagree continues to be one of the cornerstones of our respectful friendship.
    No worries, Jack! I never get mad or even irritated by a difference of opinion, so if you ever think that just PM me
    Last edited by IceyCat; October 7, 2019 at 09:22am.
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  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    To be fair though, the majority of Mattel's male dolls are already very feminine looking. Perhaps if they want to be ''inclusive'' they should actually start releasing dolls that actually look like a males.

  24. #49
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    Let them sell it. People will either buy it or they won't but Mattel will have checked an important box that says they ARE inclusive and thinking about everyone.

    We're in a time where this type of thing needs to happen in order to normalize it. IMO for both good and bad reasons.
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  25. #50
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidTDragon View Post
    Which papers are those?




    “The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm.”

    ― Confucius
    Never give in.. never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force.. never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy - Winston Churchill

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Let them sell it. People will either buy it or they won't but Mattel will have checked an important box that says they ARE inclusive and thinking about everyone.

    We're in a time where this type of thing needs to happen in order to normalize it. IMO for both good and bad reasons.
    There is a limit to what should be normalized.

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