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Thread: Mattel is releasing a Gender-Neutral Doll

  1. #76
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I would argue popping in a thread to derail it with a snarky comment is more along the lines of why we cannot have nice things.
    This thread derailed a long time ago. That was the point. It was barely on the rails to begin with, and I'm surprised it was somewhat reasonable for as long as it was.

    I find it very unfortunate that a handful of people seem to not-so-subtly inject their political world view into the majority of conversations that pop up in this forum, especially when there is a dedicated forum for that. I feel like I'm being sucked into any irony vortex when I see the same people continuously decrying "agendas" , and "propaganda", and "messaging", and "indoctrination", yet repeating the same ideology over and over and over again in post after post , thread after thread. The Org was pretty much the last place on the internet where I'd occasionally enjoy engaging in discussion, but I'm less and less inclined to do so as more overbearing partisan tribalism seeps in. If I was interested in debating politics, I would have jumped in the Tar Swamp years ago.

  2. #77
    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    It's an opinion forum , and the topics a " gender neutral doll " . People are allowed to cheer for how great it is , how amazingly progressive it is , how it has engineering the like of which no toy has ever seen before . But people are also allowed to say they don't like it , and they're allowed to say why . I've given my opinion and I've respectfully listened to those on the other side of the argument . I haven't changed my mind and it's not something I'll be buying for my son , my friends sons or daughter's ,or any of my nephew's or neices but surely if I can listen to why people think it's brilliant without objection , those of us who are less enthusiastic are also allowed to state why ?





    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post

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    I think unless you have kids or have been around them a significant length of time (long enough to understand their development) then it might not seem like a big deal to you. I can tell you that five years old are not equip to deal with conversations about gender and sex, nor should they be forced to.
    One million per cent this .
    Last edited by davelove81; October 8, 2019 at 04:26pm.

  3. #78
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    Why has this thread not been moved to The Tar Swamp? We've got children reading he-man.org.

  4. #79
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    Yes, think of all the kids who clearly read this forum and post regularly, semi-rarely, or even rarely!

  5. #80
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Why has this thread not been moved to The Tar Swamp? We've got children reading he-man.org.
    Why would it be moved to the Tar Swamp? There has been nothing said here any different to what these dolls are encouraging and exposing children to. Surely it's better for the reader to hear different opinions and points of views.

    Also I really doubt there is many children that read He-Man.org.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    Yes, think of all the kids who clearly read this forum and post regularly, semi-rarely, or even rarely!
    Yeah, the last 10 years MOTU Classics has sold millions and been the number one selling childrens toyline everywhere.

  6. #81
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    Yes, think of all the kids who clearly read this forum and post regularly, semi-rarely, or even rarely!
    Right? LOL! Go ahead and move it into the Swamp where everything worth talking about goes to die, but we can have 800 million posts of people whining about the crotch of an action figure.

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    THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

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  7. #82
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Behave, everyone.
    I shouldn't even have to post that.
    Knock off the sarcastic jabs at one another.
    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  8. #83
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Behave, everyone.
    I shouldn't even have to post that.
    Knock off the sarcastic jabs at one another.
    Sorry, I just had a lot of chocolate and I am feeling SILLY :P

    Sword2Blanket - There is a handy dandy ignore feature if people with opposing opinions bother you that much. I have had to use it in the past for belligerent people.
    Last edited by IceyCat; October 8, 2019 at 06:24pm.
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  9. #84
    Color'licious! JVS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Sorry, I just had a lot of chocolate and I am feeling SILLY :P
    Unless you brought enough to share with the class, you'll have to eat that later.

    Hope to see you at Power-Con 2020!
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  10. #85
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    When I was young everyone of my friends throughout my childhood had a tub of some sort full of LEGO. During some indoor play times we would pour it out and build with them, sometimes as a group sometimes individually.

    When MOTU was the big thing, than later TMNT was we found out you could make new characters by removing limbs/heads and placing them on different torsos, this was especially useful when you had duplicate characters.

    I am sure I am not the only one here on this board who participated in play like this.

    This is what Mattel should have focused on with this doll line, give name options, at least with the target audience of the kids. Even give some out their options for heads/bodies etc, robot, alien, lion, etc.

    You can design material aimed at adults who may feel they need to have a discussion with their child with what they are doing with the doll. Example, kid says they are a robot, dresses the doll as a robot, and is being overly violent to said doll. When asked they say 'robots should be punished/destroyed/whatever' That's cause of concern.

    What I have a problem with summing up what I said earlier, Matel choose a politically charged term to advertise a kid's toy. Yes there will be those who rejoice on that, I understand where they are coming from on that matter. I just feel it undermines any real attempt at doing what is the real intent/point of something like this.
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  11. #86
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    When I was young everyone of my friends throughout my childhood had a tub of some sort full of LEGO. During some indoor play times we would pour it out and build with them, sometimes as a group sometimes individually.

    When MOTU was the big thing, than later TMNT was we found out you could make new characters by removing limbs/heads and placing them on different torsos, this was especially useful when you had duplicate characters.

    I am sure I am not the only one here on this board who participated in play like this.

    This is what Mattel should have focused on with this doll line, give name options, at least with the target audience of the kids. Even give some out their options for heads/bodies etc, robot, alien, lion, etc.

    You can design material aimed at adults who may feel they need to have a discussion with their child with what they are doing with the doll. Example, kid says they are a robot, dresses the doll as a robot, and is being overly violent to said doll. When asked they say 'robots should be punished/destroyed/whatever' That's cause of concern.

    What I have a problem with summing up what I said earlier, Matel choose a politically charged term to advertise a kid's toy. Yes there will be those who rejoice on that, I understand where they are coming from on that matter. I just feel it undermines any real attempt at doing what is the real intent/point of something like this.
    Very well said. 100% agree.

  12. #87
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    Unless you brought enough to share with the class, you'll have to eat that later.

    Ha! I have two family sized bags :P They are supposed to be for ghost s'mores favors for my daughter's party next week, but the kids were off the chain and Mommy got into the chocolate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    When I was young everyone of my friends throughout my childhood had a tub of some sort full of LEGO. During some indoor play times we would pour it out and build with them, sometimes as a group sometimes individually.

    When MOTU was the big thing, than later TMNT was we found out you could make new characters by removing limbs/heads and placing them on different torsos, this was especially useful when you had duplicate characters.

    I am sure I am not the only one here on this board who participated in play like this.

    This is what Mattel should have focused on with this doll line, give name options, at least with the target audience of the kids. Even give some out their options for heads/bodies etc, robot, alien, lion, etc.

    You can design material aimed at adults who may feel they need to have a discussion with their child with what they are doing with the doll. Example, kid says they are a robot, dresses the doll as a robot, and is being overly violent to said doll. When asked they say 'robots should be punished/destroyed/whatever' That's cause of concern.

    What I have a problem with summing up what I said earlier, Matel choose a politically charged term to advertise a kid's toy. Yes there will be those who rejoice on that, I understand where they are coming from on that matter. I just feel it undermines any real attempt at doing what is the real intent/point of something like this.
    Very well said. I would have killed for customizable dolls when I was a kid. I do not have a problem with the toy, but the marketing seems a bit sketchy - LOL!
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  13. #88
    Unmotivated webcomicker KidTDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Teaching children to be accepting of things is fine...but you know as well as I do that not everyone will ever be that accepting.
    But I think bring gender neutrality into schools is quite harmful for children.
    Having worked in education I know what goes on in schools and I know and have seen the types of things bullying does to people. For children's own safety and well being I think encouraging gender neutrality, transgender etc is just going to give bullies a prime target and reason to bully them.
    People should be allowed to go to school without having to deal with being bullied for whatever reason.
    So instead of disciplining the bullies, teach the bullied to not provoke them?
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  14. #89
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidTDragon View Post
    So instead of disciplining the bullies, teach the bullied to not provoke them?
    The bullies should be disciplined, but there is limitations to how much teachers can stop someone from being bullied.
    I was always taught to stand up for myself against bullies.
    But not everyone can or wants to stand up for themselves.
    So for some people yes it would be a good idea to try and not provoke bullies.
    Just look at that case of the not who refused to wrestle a girl/identifying as a boy. He was in a posing position to be bullied and kicked no matter what he did so he chose not to compete against her/him.

  15. #90
    Unmotivated webcomicker KidTDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    The bullies should be disciplined, but there is limitations to how much teachers can stop someone from being bullied.
    I was always taught to stand up for myself against bullies.
    But not everyone can or wants to stand up for themselves.
    So for some people yes it would be a good idea to try and not provoke bullies.
    Just look at that case of the not who refused to wrestle a girl/identifying as a boy. He was in a posing position to be bullied and kicked no matter what he did so he chose not to compete against her/him.
    It's one thing if an individual decides that that's the best approach to take for themselves, but to teach them that they should do whatever it takes to avoid arousing the ire of the bullies doesn't seem beneficial to anyone but the bullies in the long run.
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  16. #91
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Do you have ANY personal experience with bullying in schools? Sadly, I have a lot of public school friends that do. I would say 8 to 9 times out of 10 the school does NOTHING to the bully. If the bullied child fights back then are punished under the 'zero tolerance policies.' The current practices against bullying are not doing anything. Another kid just killed themselves in our area due to it. She was in 10th grade.

    The sad thing is that it is NOT just children doing the bullying. You have parents getting involved on social media. Society has de-evolved into something truly wretched when parents will bully a teen girl until she kills herself. Our country has a morality problem and an accountability problem. No one wants to do what is right and when they are caught doing wrong they want to blame everything else.
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  17. #92
    SAY10 is coming... dedset13's Avatar
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    Hey folks. I know this thread is going to include discussions of gender neutrality but let's try to keep it as on-topic as possible and keep the discussion away from Tar Swamp territory.

    Thanks!
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  18. #93
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    This, this...

    Quote Originally Posted by KidTDragon View Post
    It's one thing if an individual decides that that's the best approach to take for themselves, but to teach them that they should do whatever it takes to avoid arousing the ire of the bullies doesn't seem beneficial to anyone but the bullies in the long run.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Then the "current practices" need to be changed. This is just one of many reasons that I have repeatedly and seriously told you that you should run for public office, starting on the local level, so you can make a difference in the world. I'd be honored to be your speech writer...pro bono, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Do you have ANY personal experience with bullying in schools? Sadly, I have a lot of public school friends that do. I would say 8 to 9 times out of 10 the school does NOTHING to the bully. If the bullied child fights back then are punished under the 'zero tolerance policies.' The current practices against bullying are not doing anything. Another kid just killed themselves in our area due to it. She was in 10th grade.

    The sad thing is that it is NOT just children doing the bullying. You have parents getting involved on social media. Society has de-evolved into something truly wretched when parents will bully a teen girl until she kills herself. Our country has a morality problem and an accountability problem. No one wants to do what is right and when they are caught doing wrong they want to blame everything else.

  19. #94
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidTDragon View Post
    It's one thing if an individual decides that that's the best approach to take for themselves, but to teach them that they should do whatever it takes to avoid arousing the ire of the bullies doesn't seem beneficial to anyone but the bullies in the long run.
    Again there is lot of different circumstance you have to take into account before making that statement.
    Maybe you would understand better if you worked in the education system and understood how little schools can actually do to stop bullying or lived in certain areas with religious, political and racial tension.
    There will always be people who pick on people for the slightest, stupid and pettiest thing.
    And as Icey said a lot of the times the victims that fight back end up getting punished worse than the bullies.
    Do you not think it is a more responsible thing to advise a child how to avoid trouble and stay out of danger rather than doing something to just make them an easy target for bullies to pick on?
    Last edited by Mark M; October 9, 2019 at 02:58pm.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Again there is lot of different circumstance you have to take into account before making that statement.
    Maybe you would understand better if you worked in the education system and understood how little schools can actually do to stop bullying.
    There will always be people who pick on people for the slightest, stupid and pettiest thing.
    And as Icey said a lot of the times the victims that fight back end up getting punished worse than the bullies.
    Do you not think it is a more responsible thing to advise a child how to avoid trouble and stay out of danger rather than doing something to just make them an easy target for bullies to pick on?
    Do you ask rape victims what they were wearing too?

  21. #96
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    This is all I will say about the bullying subject.

    In the fifth grade, a new girl moved into town. Her name was Sherry. The moment the teacher left, she would verbally berate fellow students, bringing them to tears more often than not. Before the teacher returned she would just say 'say anything and you will regret it on the playground later.'

    I never cried and often didn't really fight back, in fact I would often step in and take the punishment for another kid. Because one day at Walmart I saw her, and what was most likely her older brother, but related in some form. She was in tears as her brother verbally dismantled her.

    Sometimes punishing the bully just adds to the pain they are experiencing.

    -------------------------------------
    My thoughts on how mattel should have handled the advertising more expressed. One thing I have noticed is people tend to not like to be told how to behave, oddly in this situation it's often be inclusive with us or we will exclude you. Ironically just building a fire of destruction instead of protection. Show the kids playing with the dolls, swapping out parts, have adults ask the kids things like who is that? Let the kids develop the story of the doll in the commercial. Let it be unscripted, you use how children often start default as accepting and build upon that. This is Jimmy, he likes to have pink hair and wear skirts with the football jersey of his favorite football team. This is his sister Jane, she likes to keep her hair short because when it's long it's always in her eyes and it just makes her mad. She likes to wear black because she likes to sneak around the house, and hide and surprise her brother.
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  22. #97
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    I was directly informed by mods that there are children reading this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    Yes, think of all the kids who clearly read this forum and post regularly, semi-rarely, or even rarely!

  23. #98
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Do you not think it is a more responsible thing to advise a child how to avoid trouble and stay out of danger rather than doing something to just make them an easy target for bullies to pick on?
    I feel like the "lessons" and responsibility of the situation here are being focused on the wrong child.
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  24. #99
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Do you ask rape victims what they were wearing too?
    That is entirely different. The act is wrong no matter what the person is wearing.

  25. #100
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I was directly informed by mods that there are children reading this forum.
    Many parents on the forum bring their kids along for the ride, especially now that there is a cartoon on netflix staring She-ra that does have a good following based on how many adults I have seen Cosplay those versions of both She-ra and Catra.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

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