Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 179

Thread: Mattel is releasing a Gender-Neutral Doll

  1. #101
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I feel like the "lessons" and responsibility of the situation here are being focused on the wrong child.
    Actually no. Sometimes you have to do the smart thing and avoid trouble.

    I am catholic and went to a 99% protestant high school. One night I stupidly wore a shirt associated with a catholic football/soccer team and a guy in my class spotted me. The next day he and some others confronted me about the shirt and luckily I was able to deny it and say it was a different coloured shirt because it was dark when he sen me. Do you have any idea what they would have done and what I would have had to go through everyday until I left that school if they found out I was Catholic. After that I did the smart thing and I never wore that shirt again until I left that school.

  2. #102
    Master of New Adventures!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,580
    Many years ago, when Kim and I lived in Florida and went to the Orange Bowl to watch Nebraska beat up on the Miami Hurricanes, we both wore full Nebraska gear. Not that's walking on the edge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Actually no. Sometimes you have to do the smart thing and avoid trouble.

    I am catholic and went to a 99% protestant high school. One night I stupidly wore a shirt associated with a catholic football/soccer team and a guy in my class spotted me. The next day he and some others confronted me about the shirt and luckily I was able to deny it and say it was a different coloured shirt because it was dark when he sen me. Do you have any idea what they would have done and what I would have had to go through everyday until I left that school if they found out I was Catholic. After that I did the smart thing and I never wore that shirt again until I left that school.

  3. #103
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Actually no. Sometimes you have to do the smart thing and avoid trouble.

    I am catholic and went to a 99% protestant high school. One night I stupidly wore a shirt associated with a catholic football/soccer team and a guy in my class spotted me. The next day he and some others confronted me about the shirt and luckily I was able to deny it and say it was a different coloured shirt because it was dark when he sen me. Do you have any idea what they would have done and what I would have had to go through everyday until I left that school if they found out I was Catholic. After that I did the smart thing and I never wore that shirt again until I left that school.
    All I'm thinking from that is it seems like they had very poor parents at home.

    My only two cents on this is I've never heard of an instance where subservience to others while under threat of violence has been viewed as a good thing.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

  4. #104
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    878
    *looks around anticipating a wrecker that never shows up**looks back over at the car in the ditch with everyone taking turns spinning the wheels, slinging mud everywhere* *sigh* I guess this is just a thing we're doing now.... fine....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Actually no. Sometimes you have to do the smart thing and avoid trouble.

    I am catholic and went to a 99% protestant high school. One night I stupidly wore a shirt associated with a catholic football/soccer team and a guy in my class spotted me. The next day he and some others confronted me about the shirt and luckily I was able to deny it and say it was a different coloured shirt because it was dark when he sen me. Do you have any idea what they would have done and what I would have had to go through everyday until I left that school if they found out I was Catholic. After that I did the smart thing and I never wore that shirt again until I left that school.
    So, let's set aside for a moment the notion that people who CAN hide/deny their beliefs/identity should be "smart" and do so any time it's socially inconvenient (which I also strongly disagree with).

    What would you say to a Muslim, or a Hindu, or a Sikh attending a less-than-tolerant, predominantly Christian school?

    You seem to be advocating for a society that teaches minorities to accept oppression rather than advocating for a society that teaches the majority to reject oppression.

  5. #105
    Master of New Adventures!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,580
    Actually, Icey, I think you and I and others have had some pretty amazing discussions in The Tar Swamp.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Right? LOL! Go ahead and move it into the Swamp where everything worth talking about goes to die, but we can have 800 million posts of people whining about the crotch of an action figure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

    Sorry, I couldn't help myself
    - - - Updated - - -

    Beware of sugar.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Sorry, I just had a lot of chocolate and I am feeling SILLY :P

    Sword2Blanket - There is a handy dandy ignore feature if people with opposing opinions bother you that much. I have had to use it in the past for belligerent people.

  6. #106
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    *looks around anticipating a wrecker that never shows up**looks back over at the car in the ditch with everyone taking turns spinning the wheels, slinging mud everywhere* *sigh* I guess this is just a thing we're doing now.... fine....



    So, let's set aside for a moment the notion that people who CAN hide/deny their beliefs/identity should be "smart" and do so any time it's socially inconvenient (which I also strongly disagree with).

    What would you say to a Muslim, or a Hindu, or a Sikh attending a less-than-tolerant, predominantly Christian school?

    You seem to be advocating for a society that teaches minorities to accept oppression rather than advocating for a society that teaches the majority to reject oppression.
    You have to remember the the political and religious troubles here in Northern Ireland at that time.
    I don't think anyone should face oppression. It's all well and good teaching people not to be oppressed but it is equally important to teach people not to oppress minorities. Thankfully nowadays my former high school has changed quite a bit and does cross community education programme with students from it and the catholic high school having some mixed classes. I wish it had been like that when I was there. But like I said it was a different time with the troubles back then and there is a lot of changes here now.
    Last edited by Mark M; October 9, 2019 at 05:02pm.

  7. #107
    Master of New Adventures!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post

    Do you ask rape victims what they were wearing too?



    Which is why I think we all ought to be a little mindful. I'm thinking most parents wouldn't want to explain the concept of rape to a five or six year old.




    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Many parents on the forum bring their kids along for the ride, especially now that there is a cartoon on netflix staring She-ra that does have a good following based on how many adults I have seen Cosplay those versions of both She-ra and Catra.

  8. #108
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Many years ago, when Kim and I lived in Florida and went to the Orange Bowl to watch Nebraska beat up on the Miami Hurricanes, we both wore full Nebraska gear. Not that's walking on the edge!
    If you know anything about the troubles in Northern Ireland believe me when I tell you wearing certain football/soccer shirts or anything associated with the opposite religion around certain areas here is definitely not a wise idea.
    Last edited by Mark M; October 9, 2019 at 04:46pm.

  9. #109
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Actually no. Sometimes you have to do the smart thing and avoid trouble.

    I am catholic and went to a 99% protestant high school. One night I stupidly wore a shirt associated with a catholic football/soccer team and a guy in my class spotted me. The next day he and some others confronted me about the shirt and luckily I was able to deny it and say it was a different coloured shirt because it was dark when he sen me. Do you have any idea what they would have done and what I would have had to go through everyday until I left that school if they found out I was Catholic. After that I did the smart thing and I never wore that shirt again until I left that school.
    So you think you were the stupid one for wearing a shirt that would have caused others to hurt and/or verbally assault you?? Here in the U.S., that's supposed to be against the law. Kids that do that sort of thing are the problem, not your shirt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    If you know anything about the troubles in Northern Ireland believe me when I tell you wearing certain football/soccer shirts or saying/expressing your religion around certain areas here is definitely not a wise idea.
    We have those here as well and those areas and those people are looked upon as straight trash. Literally the lowest of the low.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  10. #110
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    All I'm thinking from that is it seems like they had very poor parents at home.

    My only two cents on this is I've never heard of an instance where subservience to others while under threat of violence has been viewed as a good thing.
    Like I have said you have to understand the religious tension and troubles here to understand my point.

  11. #111
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Like I have said you have to understand the religious tension and troubles here to understand my point.
    Don't think most american's were aware of how violent that situation was, and you pretty much walked out with your life.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  12. #112
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Like I have said you have to understand the religious tension and troubles here to understand my point.
    I'll take your word for that since i have no first hand experience with the situation in Ireland.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

  13. #113
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Castle Chill
    Posts
    2,959
    I'm a little behind, but I do not think I could ever run for office. I was too wild in college - LOL! Of course that was before digital cameras and social media, so I might be OK.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Don't think most american's were aware of how violent that situation was, and you pretty much walked out with your life.
    THIS. Whenever I do not understand a situation I try to refrain from speaking on it, especially when it deals with another culture or the plight of someone from another country. I think it is very hard sometimes for Americans to wrap their brains around what happens in the rest of the world. I do not think it is ignorance, but I think we are so far removed from some of these situations that it is completely foreign to us.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither!"

  14. #114
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Like I have said you have to understand the religious tension and troubles here to understand my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Don't think most american's were aware of how violent that situation was, and you pretty much walked out with your life.
    Understandable. But does a situation like that still fall under the title of simple bullying?



    In some cultures and countries women can be greatly harmed for doing or saying the wrong thing. Are we really going to compare those type of situations to our kids dressing a certain way at school here in the U. S.?
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  15. #115
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Understandable. But does a situation like that still fall under the title of simple bullying?



    In some cultures and countries women can be greatly harmed for doing or saying the wrong thing. Are we really going to compare those type of situations to our kids dressing a certain way at school here in the U. S.?
    It may not be simple bullying as such but sometimes but my point is sometimes it might not be the best thing encouraging people to do something if it is going to get them in to hassle, trouble or potentially dangerous situations.

  16. #116
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    It may not be simple bullying as such but sometimes but my point is sometimes it might not be the best thing encouraging people to do something if it is going to get them in to hassle, trouble or potentially dangerous situations.
    I understand your point. I'm also not a fan of seeking negative attention through one's actions.

    But I also think that the problem really isn't the victim but rather the actions of the bully. And the solution to that problem can't be to restrict the victim. That's not a real solution.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  17. #117
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,817
    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    I'm a little behind, but I do not think I could ever run for office. I was too wild in college - LOL! Of course that was before digital cameras and social media, so I might be OK.



    - - - Updated - - -



    THIS. Whenever I do not understand a situation I try to refrain from speaking on it, especially when it deals with another culture or the plight of someone from another country. I think it is very hard sometimes for Americans to wrap their brains around what happens in the rest of the world. I do not think it is ignorance, but I think we are so far removed from some of these situations that it is completely foreign to us.
    It's ignorance by definition. We have created a society that ignorance, which is lack of knowledge or understanding on a matter is always bad. To the point we don't want to be labeled as such when it's appropriate.

    I remember when we got our first microwave oven. I asked my mom how it worked, she said you pushes the buttons like this. I said no how does it actually heat things up, she didn't know, and I was fine with that answer.
    Last edited by wyldman11; October 9, 2019 at 05:35pm.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  18. #118
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Don't think most american's were aware of how violent that situation was, and you pretty much walked out with your life.
    Thank you for understanding my point.

  19. #119
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    It's ignorance by definition. We have created a society that ignorance, which is lack of knowledge or understanding on a matter is always bad. To the point we don't want to be labeled as such when it's appropriate.

    I remember when we got our first microwave oven. I asked my mom how it worked, she said you pushes the buttons like this. I said no how does it actually heat things up, she didn't know, and I was fine with that answer.
    I don't think this applies in this particular conversation. You guys decided to make a huge comparison leap and that's on you.

    Here in the U.S. there were some great people that put themselves in extremely dangerous situations in order to fight back against ignorant hate filled bullies. It cost many of them their lives. But they along with others proved those bullies were wrong.

    Should they have stayed in their place? Would that have been the better solution? Today, it's those last lingering bullies that have to hide from society.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

  20. #120
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Castle Chill
    Posts
    2,959
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post

    I remember when we got our first microwave oven. I asked my mom how it worked, she said you pushes the buttons like this. I said no how does it actually heat things up, she didn't know, and I was fine with that answer.
    You just made me feel like Mom of the Year - LOL! Whenever my children ask me something I never say 'I do not know.' I usually say 'You know what? Mommy is not familiar with that, lets go look it up!' I used to hate when I was a kid and adults would blow you off if you asked questions. I swore I would never do that to my children.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither!"

  21. #121
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Thank you for understanding my point.
    A certain song by the cranberries started playing in my head when I saw your first post and looked at your location.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  22. #122
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    878
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    You have to remember the the political and religious troubles here in Northern Ireland at that time.
    I can appreciate the severity of your particular scenario. However, I don't agree with mapping the philosophy you gleaned from it onto other situations that are more in line with what was previously being discussed.

    You also didn't answer the specific question I asked you about oppressed people who CAN'T hide/deny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I don't think anyone should face oppression. It's all well and good teaching people not to be oppressed but it is equally important to teach people not to oppress minorities. Thankfully nowadays my former high school has changed quite a bit and does cross community education programme with students from it and the catholic high school having some mixed classes. I wish it had been like that when I was there. But like I said it was a different time with the troubles back then and there is a lot of changes here now.
    I appreciate the severity of your particular situation.
    So basically you're saying it would be beneficial to society to find some way to introduce kids to the concepts of peoples and ideas that they may not be aware of, understand, or agree with, in order to destigmatize them and promote inclusiveness.

    Interesting...

  23. #123
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I don't think this applies in this particular conversation. You guys decided to make a huge comparison leap and that's on you.

    Here in the U.S. there were some great people that put themselves in extremely dangerous situations in order to fight back against ignorant hate filled bullies. It cost many of them their lives. But they along with others proved those bullies were wrong.

    Should they have stayed in their place? Would that have been the better solution? Today, it's those last lingering bullies that have to hide from society.
    Similar closeness would be some of the more violent gang war. Not saying, all American's get or don't get it. Some don't want to be a nameless number, yes some became martyrs. Some didn't have to lose their lives. My main point was more that I don't think many noticed Mark's particular situation and what he is speaking from. Is it worth losing your life over a t-shirt? I agree it's more than your standard bullying situation.
    Based on what I said earlier, I agree people do need to stand up. Things need to change, sometimes and individual needs to make the choice of it will be them or someone else.
    interestingly he applies to something else in regards to the dolls.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  24. #124
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    I can appreciate the severity of your particular scenario. However, I don't agree with mapping the philosophy you gleaned from it onto other situations that are more in line with what was previously being discussed.

    You also didn't answer the specific question I asked you about oppressed people who CAN'T hide/deny.



    So basically you're saying it would be beneficial to society to find some way to introduce kids to the concepts of peoples and ideas that they may not be aware of, understand, or agree with, in order to destigmatize them and promote inclusiveness.

    Interesting...
    I edited my reply to answer your question which is in your second quote.

  25. #125
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Similar closeness would be some of the more violent gang war. Not saying, all American's get or don't get it. Some don't want to be a nameless number, yes some became martyrs. Some didn't have to lose their lives. My main point was more that I don't think many noticed Mark's particular situation and what he is speaking from. Is it worth losing your life over a t-shirt? I agree it's more than your standard bullying situation.
    Based on what I said earlier, I agree people do need to stand up. Things need to change, sometimes and individual needs to make the choice of it will be them or someone else.
    interestingly he applies to something else in regards to the dolls.
    Yeah that was my point, that we went from talking about maybe not dressing a certain way to keep under the radar of bullies to comparing it to "Is it worth losing your life over a t-shirt?". That's a pretty drastic jump to try and use as an example.

    My point though, would still stand. Whether it's a simple as being made fun of or as drastic as fearing for your life, it's not the victim's fault. Them changing doesn't solve anything.
    We canít pretend that the Trump Presidency is this weird anomaly that we can just kind of recover from by returning to the old normal. We are where we are because normal didnít work. - Pete Buttigieg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •