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Thread: Season 4 is coming November 5th -- Click here for teaser trailer and more!

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Oh, that sounds interesting. Double Trouble being a shapeshifter is a nice new idea.

    And i hope she isnīt Glimmers cousin. Making Castaspella Micahs sister was very unnecessary. I do not see the point in making all the characters related to each other.
    I was okay with Casta being Micah's sister, but I agree Double Trouble doesn't need to be her cousin. Of course she looks a bit reptilian to me, at least in the form they're presenting as her basic form. If she is a shapeshifter, I have to wonder what limits they'll put on her powers.
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  2. #27
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    Making Casta Micah's sister was a smart storytelling move - what conceivable emotional connection would she have with the characters otherwise? This way she's invested in Glimmer and she's got a marginally interesting dynamic with Angella, who already kind of fills the series's role of arch-sorceress. Still not a tremendous fan of her redesign though
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  3. #28
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Nope.

    There are both versions. Similar to Beast-man or Stratos in the beginning.

    Castaspella got an evil twin like cousin called Allepsatsac but there is at least one ladybird story where Castaspella is treated as one of Catras allies. And they are wearing the toy outfits from wave two and Entrapta is shown with her prototype boots and not the boots her figure actually came with.

    And Allepsatsac was shown with an color reversed outfit which is of course easier with the FILMATION colors but still...
    No, I am saying that Allepsatsac is a retcon of evil Castaspella. That previous depictions of Castaspella as evil are actually her evil twin cousin Allepsatsac.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    No, I am saying that Allepsatsac is a retcon of evil Castaspella. That previous depictions of Castaspella as evil are actually her evil twin cousin Allepsatsac.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris85 View Post
    If i remember correctly, she got to see s1 before everyone else and wrote positive things about the show.
    She said it wasn't her cup of tea. She felt the characters were more kids that were roleplaying rather than the embodiment of the characters.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    She said it wasn't her cup of tea. She felt the characters were more kids that were roleplaying rather than the embodiment of the characters.
    I know she has come out and said she wished the new series honored the old one.

    My daughter and I have tried it out and just can’t get in to it. In my area I can only find fans on the forum here or non-org members in their 20’s that like the show.

    Fellow orgers - Does the hype for the new season seem to be hitting any of your non-org friends? Obviously there is licensing, dvd, and new episodes so someone is watching it. I’m just curious who it is. I’ve also seen the toys just sitting on the shelves out here in West coast USA.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    She said it wasn't her cup of tea. She felt the characters were more kids that were roleplaying rather than the embodiment of the characters.
    Is that so? Good to know. Can't argue with what she said.
    Roleplaying in a small sandbox in an empty world, while in the original in almost every episode we saw how awful the Horde regime was for ordinary people - slavery, taxes, book burning, spending years in prison. I wish we could see some of that in new She-Ra.
    Last edited by Chris85; October 19, 2019 at 06:13am.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris85 View Post
    Is that so? Good to know. Can't argue with what she said.
    Roleplaying in a small sandbox in an empty world, while in the original in almost every episode we saw how awful the Horde regime was for ordinary people - slavery, taxes, book burning, spending years in prison. I wish we could see some of that in new She-Ra.
    When it was announced that Ms. Stevenson will do a new POP series i took the time and read a few of her Lumber Jane stories and i have to say Melendy Britts spot on observation and your empty world comment reminded of those Lumber Jane stories. A best friend squad running around in strange forests under no real supervision.
    But this time cosplaying princesses in more colorful outfits and mutant powers.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    . A best friend squad running around in strange under no real supervision.
    But this time cosplaying princesses in more colorful outfits and mutant powers.
    To be fair Precure/Pretty Cure is pretty much that kind of thing and ended up being working fine. So I'm not so sure I can agree with deriding those kinds of stories in general.

    Anyway I would say the world building is strong when it comes to the overall history of Etheria, but less so when it comes to the modern day situation.
    Last edited by A Dalek; October 19, 2019 at 10:47am.

  10. #35
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    “It was really important for me to tell that story – focus on characters who are finding themselves, figuring out who they are and who they want to be, apart from the authority figures who raised them. They have to figure out for themselves what is right and wrong and what to do about it, which is always relevant, especially today when the world is so complicated, and it's not always clear what to do to fix things.” - Noelle Stevenson

    This is probably why I have such an issue with the show and others do too. It is less about a good story and understanding what makes a good story, but the show is propped up with stories from someone that is just as confused as the characters they portray. I’m not talking about any representation issues or things of that nature. I am taking about lacking a sense of justice and good vs evil that makes the original stories and cartoons so powerful. Secret of the Sword already handled this theme and people seemed to resonate with it so much more.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    “It was really important for me to tell that story – focus on characters who are finding themselves, figuring out who they are and who they want to be, apart from the authority figures who raised them. They have to figure out for themselves what is right and wrong and what to do about it, which is always relevant, especially today when the world is so complicated, and it's not always clear what to do to fix things.” - Noelle Stevenson

    This is probably why I have such an issue with the show and others do too. It is less about a good story and understanding what makes a good story, but the show is propped up with stories from someone that is just as confused as the characters they portray. I’m not talking about any representation issues or things of that nature. I am taking about lacking a sense of justice and good vs evil that makes the original stories and cartoons so powerful. Secret of the Sword already handled this theme and people seemed to resonate with it so much more.
    I kind of disagree their, since I don't think the original is powerful at all. Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who didn't grow up with the filmation series. But it's hard for Good vs Evil to have much impact when Evil is depicted as a bunch of incompetent, losers.

    And ultimatly the way MoTU and PoP ultimatly went on to be mostly forgoton in general pop culture, while many of their contemporaries had much greater longevity, I don't think it necessarily resonated with people as much as you think it did.

    Now is Netflix She-Ra a great show? Not really in my opinion. It's a decent enough Avatar The Last The Airbender, style show, but ultimatly one that dosn't do anything that ATLA didn't do better.
    Last edited by A Dalek; October 19, 2019 at 02:16pm.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    I kind of disagree their, since I don't think the original is powerful at all. Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who didn't grow up with the filmation series. But it's hard for Good vs Evil to have much impact when Evil is depicted as a bunch of incompetent, losers.

    And ultimatly the way MoTU and PoP ultimatly went on to be mostly forgoton in general pop culture, while many of their contemporaries had much greater longevity, I don't think it necessarily resonated with people as much as you think it did.

    Now is Netflix She-Ra a great show? Not really in my opinion. It's a decent enough Avatar The Last The Airbender, style show, but ultimatly one that dosn't do anything that ATLA didn't do better.
    Thanks for sharing. I would question the thought that MOTU and POP’s contemporaries had more longetivity though. Maybe TMNT and Transformers?
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    Thanks for sharing. I would question the thought that MOTU and POP’s contemporaries had more longetivity though. Maybe TMNT and Transformers?
    TMNT and Transformers were mainly what I was thinking off. Especialy Transformers, since it's been consistently pretty sucessful, outside of the early 90's failure of Generation 2.

    And while this is technically cheating since it's a franchise that never really took off in the west, but Kamen Rider predates MoTU by about a decade and is still going strong in Japan to this day.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    Thanks for sharing. I would question the thought that MOTU and POP’s contemporaries had more longetivity though. Maybe TMNT and Transformers?
    My guess is themes like teenage mutant turtles can be reinvented every few years and transforming robots can change appearance to suit the taste of a new generation.

    But most properties that stayed relevant have one thing in common that MOTU/POP doesīt have. They represent earth or things people can relate to because it is earth bound.

    MOTU and POP donīt share that and thatīs why i think all those very unearth bound properties like MOTU, POP or Thundercats are difficult for the millennial generations to enjoy. They donīt want new things, they want better things. They donīt want to explore they want it given.

    This new She-ra appeals to people who like it unique but not to different. There is never real danger except for season final episodes and than itīs super dramatic for 10 minutes to be cleared in a puff so everyone can be happy again and with everyone i mean everyone since we donīt want to alienate the people who are rooting for Catra and the Horde since they are not evil. Just mistreated and we have to feel for everyone no matter what they have done before.

    There was that weird sheet somewhere where they put up who is good and who is evil all the in-betweens. I found that really disturbing t be honest. So much grey area.

    But iīm losing focus again. Sorry.

    Itīs about friendship ... but there is more relationship shipping than i have seen in telenovelas.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    My guess is themes like teenage mutant turtles can be reinvented every few years and transforming robots can change appearance to suit the taste of a new generation.

    But most properties that stayed relevant have one thing in common that MOTU/POP doesīt have. They represent earth or things people can relate to because it is earth bound.

    MOTU and POP donīt share that and thatīs why i think all those very unearth bound properties like MOTU, POP or Thundercats are difficult for the millennial generations to enjoy. They donīt want new things, they want better things. They donīt want to explore they want it given.

    This new She-ra appeals to people who like it unique but not to different. There is never real danger except for season final episodes and than itīs super dramatic for 10 minutes to be cleared in a puff so everyone can be happy again and with everyone i mean everyone since we donīt want to alienate the people who are rooting for Catra and the Horde since they are not evil. Just mistreated and we have to feel for everyone no matter what they have done before.

    There was that weird sheet somewhere where they put up who is good and who is evil all the in-betweens. I found that really disturbing t be honest. So much grey area.

    But iīm losing focus again. Sorry.

    Itīs about friendship ... but there is more relationship shipping than i have seen in telenovelas.
    I'm not so sure that's the case, after all shows like ATLA and RWBY are both popular with the millenial generation despite them taking place in fantasy worlds and after all alot of anime that are popular with millenials such as Gurren LaganNaruto and One Piece all take place in fantasy worlds aswell.

    I think it might be because millenials have allways gravitated towards more vulnrable or relatable heroes.

    For example Captain America was able to apeal to the millial generatio much more easily than most of the other idealised hero types (such as Superman or He-Man). And while he isn't neciserily relatable, the man out of time aspect of his character and the tragedy of his situation. lends him an emotional vulnrability that the likes of Superman just dosn't realy have.
    Last edited by A Dalek; October 19, 2019 at 04:57pm.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post

    This new She-ra appeals to people who like it unique but not to different. There is never real danger except for season final episodes and than itīs super dramatic for 10 minutes to be cleared in a puff so everyone can be happy again and with everyone i mean everyone since we donīt want to alienate the people who are rooting for Catra and the Horde since they are not evil. Just mistreated and we have to feel for everyone no matter what they have done before.

    There was that weird sheet somewhere where they put up who is good and who is evil all the in-betweens. I found that really disturbing t be honest. So much grey area.
    This is pretty much what I was trying to convey when I had written there is no justice. There is no good or evil. I can see my kids demeanor change after watching shows like this. They don’t want a show that just sweeps away problems or makes everyhting murky and gray. They want to see good triumph over evil, justice is restored, and characters that are not just flawed but give something to aspire to. They are already scared, lonely, and confused in this world. They want a show that counters what they already epxerience all around them.

    I have seen looks of pure joy on my kid’s faces while watching vintage POP cartoons. The first season of Dreamworks’ POP never provided that pure unbridled joy for them or I.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    I'm not so sure that's the case, after all shows like ATLA and RWBY are both popular with the millenial generation despite them taking place in fantasy worlds and after all alot of anime that are popular with millenials such as Gurren LaganNaruto and One Piece all take place in fantasy worlds aswell.

    I think it might be because millenials have allways gravitated towards more vulnrable or relatable heroes.

    For example Captain America was able to apeal to the millial generatio much more easily than most of the other idealised hero types (such as Superman or He-Man). And while he isn't neciserily relatable, the man out of time aspect of his character and the tragedy of his situation. lends him an emotional vulnrability that the likes of Superman just dosn't realy have.
    Plus the actor is sexy and relatable. He has those "fabulous" abs which are so important to the Instagram generation and for the guys he has "amazing" pecs and never misses leg day.

    Thatīs what cinema goers are rooting for if you ask me. Loki is a horrible character but people think he is cute because the actor is "sexy". Movies do not count, they are not made for storytelling they are made for giving the audience visual sensations in every way possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    This is pretty much what I was trying to convey when I had written there is no justice. There is no good or evil. I can see my kids demeanor change after watching shows like this. They don’t want a show that just sweeps away problems or makes everyhting murky and gray. They want to see good triumph over evil, justice is restored, and characters that are not just flawed but give something to aspire to. They are already scared, lonely, and confused in this world. They want a show that counters what they already epxerience all around them.

    I have seen looks of pure joy on my kid’s faces while watching vintage POP cartoons. The first season of Dreamworks’ POP never provided that pure unbridled joy for them or I.
    Those vintage cartoons were written more simply. Good versus Evil. And i think that was a good concept. There is that saying:

    Know the rules before you break them.

    In this case i would say cartoons like that showed the viewer a clear distinction of whatīs right and wrong. Added with some silly humor but hey, why not make people laugh?

    200X took that concept a little further with characters like Evil Lyn. There was one episode were she was punished for her betrayal. And He-Man saw that there is a different side to her but she clearly decided against the good side since she enjoyed doing bad things. She knew the difference between right and wrong but she made a decision that she likes to do wrong. She wasn't confused. She wasnīt even surprised that she was punished she was angry she was caught.

    Catra in this series doesīt think she is evil. She is childish and wants everyone who is in her way to be removed or destroyed since she had a difficult childhood. Entrapta watched her former "friends" being attacked by her robots but she has no sense of empathy she is more or less a sociopath. And the watchers are fine with that since she is kinda cute and dorky...and her awkwardness reminds them of their own. I hope no-one really is like her. Rooting more for dangerous machines than for friends who could get seriously injured isnīt cute. Itīs dangerous.

    And i never wanted to be like She-Ra i wanted her hair when i was a kid!
    *Toy version Catra *Sagitar *Drissi *Lizorr *Zilora *Battle Armor Queen Marlena *Quartzara(Minicomic Comet Warrior) *Lady Slither


  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwinter View Post
    This is pretty much what I was trying to convey when I had written there is no justice. There is no good or evil. I can see my kids demeanor change after watching shows like this. They don’t want a show that just sweeps away problems or makes everyhting murky and gray. They want to see good triumph over evil, justice is restored, and characters that are not just flawed but give something to aspire to. They are already scared, lonely, and confused in this world. They want a show that counters what they already epxerience all around them.

    I have seen looks of pure joy on my kid’s faces while watching vintage POP cartoons. The first season of Dreamworks’ POP never provided that pure unbridled joy for them or I.
    I think that is over symplifying things a bit, most kids who grew up in the 90's loved Batman The Animated Series and that was a show that could get quite dark and tragic in places. And I don't think so many people from that generation would have enjoyed it, if kids only liked that kinds of stories you described (I say this as someone who grew up in the 90's).

    And yes seeing good triumph over evil can be a powerful thing, but there needs to be a struggle, good needs to eanr it's victory, a hero is only as as the adveristy he or she faces and it's that adversity that makes their ultimate triumph uplifting.

    And you can't realy do that if evil is just a bunch of losers, because it makes the heroes victories much less meaningful.

  19. #44
    Shhhh... It's a Secret... Midwinter's Avatar
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    I guess my question would be who is or who embodies the “evil” in the new POP series?
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Plus the actor is sexy and relatable. He has those "fabulous" abs which are so important to the Instagram generation and for the guys he has "amazing" pecs and never misses leg day.

    Thatīs what cinema goers are rooting for if you ask me. Loki is a horrible character but people think he is cute because the actor is "sexy". Movies do not count, they are not made for storytelling they are made for giving the audience visual sensations in every way possible.



    Those vintage cartoons were written more simply. Good versus Evil. And i think that was a good concept. There is that saying:

    Know the rules before you break them.

    In this case i would say cartoons like that showed the viewer a clear distinction of whatīs right and wrong. Added with some silly humor but hey, why not make people laugh?

    200X took that concept a little further with characters like Evil Lyn. There was one episode were she was punished for her betrayal. And He-Man saw that there is a different side to her but she clearly decided against the good side since she enjoyed doing bad things. She knew the difference between right and wrong but she made a decision that she likes to do wrong. She wasn't confused. She wasnīt even surprised that she was punished she was angry she was caught.

    Catra in this series doesīt think she is evil. She is childish and wants everyone who is in her way to be removed or destroyed since she had a difficult childhood. Entrapta watched her former "friends" being attacked by her robots but she has no sense of empathy she is more or less a sociopath. And the watchers are fine with that since she is kinda cute and dorky...and her awkwardness reminds them of their own. I hope no-one really is like her. Rooting more for dangerous machines than for friends who could get seriously injured isnīt cute. Itīs dangerous.

    And i never wanted to be like She-Ra i wanted her hair when i was a kid!
    But isn't that where all this "No one is really evil in their own minds" mantra has been heading? The idea of villains not being big of simply evil for the evils, but having a goal in mind simply being focused on it. They actually did this with Megatron in Transfomers, played him out like he was less and evil warlord and more a fallen hero who'd lost his way. The Animated version split the difference, allowing him to play up the very real flaws in the oppressive system he was rebelling against, but scratch the surface and you find the only actual problem he has is that he's not the one at the top of the system.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    But isn't that where all this "No one is really evil in their own minds" mantra has been heading? The idea of villains not being big of simply evil for the evils, but having a goal in mind simply being focused on it. They actually did this with Megatron in Transfomers, played him out like he was less and evil warlord and more a fallen hero who'd lost his way. The Animated version split the difference, allowing him to play up the very real flaws in the oppressive system he was rebelling against, but scratch the surface and you find the only actual problem he has is that he's not the one at the top of the system.
    Thatīs my point this shows Catra, Entrapta or Glimmer are teenagers who are in positions were fully educated grown ups would struggle. Glimmer is at an age were itīs still normal to be grounded. Still she is leading missions and oh my they go wrong ALL THE TIME! Thanks to She-Ra and her powers most of the time the mission is saved some how but thanks to pure luck.

    I think these characters never really learned whats truly wrong and whats not. What real responsibility is. And all of them are abandoned. Where is Mermistas father? Where are Frostas parents? Why is Castaspella hiding somewhere in the clouds where people enjoy laying on the "beach" while there is a real war outside?

    These kids are the most powerful beings on the planet and all of them seem to be awkward or clueless as charming as it may seem.

    I wouldnīt want Glimmer to be the ruler of the most important kingdom. Maybe itīs interesting for her story development to have this responsibility but she is far from ready to do it.

    As is said. I feel this show is written strange and POP is handled the wrong way by these writers in my opinion.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Thatīs my point this shows Catra, Entrapta or Glimmer are teenagers who are in positions were fully educated grown ups would struggle. Glimmer is at an age were itīs still normal to be grounded. Still she is leading missions and oh my they go wrong ALL THE TIME! Thanks to She-Ra and her powers most of the time the mission is saved some how but thanks to pure luck.

    I think these characters never really learned whats truly wrong and whats not. What real responsibility is. And all of them are abandoned. Where is Mermistas father? Where are Frostas parents? Why is Castaspella hiding somewhere in the clouds where people enjoy laying on the "beach" while there is a real war outside?

    These kids are the most powerful beings on the planet and all of them seem to be awkward or clueless as charming as it may seem.

    I wouldnīt want Glimmer to be the ruler of the most important kingdom. Maybe itīs interesting for her story development to have this responsibility but she is far from ready to do it.

    As is said. I feel this show is written strange and POP is handled the wrong way by these writers in my opinion.
    Entrapta is meant to be in her mid 20's . Considering that Adora is meant to be 17-18 and Mermista comes across as being older than her, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that she is in her 20's.

    That being said, I think you have said that you liked Sailor Moon in that past. So I have ask why is it ok for that show to give, what is arguably a bigger responsibility than anyone in PoP has, to a 14 year old who acts like she was dropped on her head as a baby?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    Entrapta is meant to be in her mid 20's . Considering that Adora is meant to be 17-18 and Mermista comes across as being older than her, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that she is in her 20's.

    That being said, I think you have said that you liked Sailor Moon in that past. So I have ask why is it ok for that show to give, what is arguably a bigger responsibility than anyone in PoP has, to a 14 year old who acts like she was dropped on her head as a baby?
    Why iīm not bothered by Usagi? Easy. She is an original character. And she is annoying as hell. She was written as a weird cry baby who is way over her head with the challenges she was confronted. She was written for 14year old girls and i didnīt liked her when i saw my first episode ... i guess i was 16 than. But i liked some of the Sailor scouts and once the lesbian couple appeared i was hooked completely.

    This new version of POPs is so far from the original in my opinion and thatīs what bothering me the most.

    Lumber Janes is not my cup of tea but it doesīt have to be for example.

    My issues are that the POP i came to love and hold dear to my (stubborn nostalgic) heart was taken and completely rearranged to fit a totally different time, place and narrative.
    *Toy version Catra *Sagitar *Drissi *Lizorr *Zilora *Battle Armor Queen Marlena *Quartzara(Minicomic Comet Warrior) *Lady Slither


  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki View Post
    Why iīm not bothered by Usagi? Easy. She is an original character. And she is annoying as hell. She was written as a weird cry baby who is way over her head with the challenges she was confronted. She was written for 14year old girls and i didnīt liked her when i saw my first episode ... i guess i was 16 than. But i liked some of the Sailor scouts and once the lesbian couple appeared i was hooked completely.

    This new version of POPs is so far from the original in my opinion and thatīs what bothering me the most.

    Lumber Janes is not my cup of tea but it doesīt have to be for example.

    My issues are that the POP i came to love and hold dear to my (stubborn nostalgic) heart was taken and completely rearranged to fit a totally different time, place and narrative.
    I think I've said elswere that an adaptation and reboot arn't really the same thing, wich is why I think it's ok for a reboot to stray further than the source material than an adaptation.

    For example alot of Dracula stories have reimagined him as a much sympathetic more character and even at times gone so far as to portray him as an annti-hero.

    I think it's ok for somthing like Castlevania to do that, because it's a reimagining of the mythos and not an adaptation of the original story.

    But by contrast, I'm not a fan of how the Francis Ford Coppola movie did that, because it was meant to be a direct adaptation of the original novel.

    To me Netflix She-Ra is a reimagning rather than an adaptation, taking the base elements of the mythos and telling it's own story with it, wich is why I don't really have a problem with it straying from the source material.

    In regards to Sailor Moon, if you liked it you might like Precure.

  25. #50
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    "Just announced on prism by @Netflix! Meet @JacobTobia - the voice of Double Trouble!" (VIDEO AT THE LINK)

    Announcement on Twitter

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    EW: She-Ra welcomes its first non-binary character — get a first look at Jacob Tobia as Double Trouble

    Entertainment Weekly Article
    Last edited by Tallstar; October 21, 2019 at 03:45pm.
    "My favorite Harry Potter movie is Troll."

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