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Thread: MOTU Origins Castle Grayskull Speculation Thread

  1. #26
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    Just like anything else... it'll all be about money. I think they'll use the MOTUC castle... with possibly a few updates. Like a new throne designed specifically for the Origins characters.

    Otherwise, the tooling is already done... and that's where most of the cost comes from on these things. I can't see them resculpting something that looks almost exactly like what they already did.

    Most importantly... the scale of the castle will be even better for the shorter figures. It was always just a LITTLE too small for Classics. For my vintage He-man, it looks pretty amazing.


    UNLESS they have found the molds to the ORIGINAL Castle Grayskull and want to rerelease THAT... similar to what Hasbro did with some of their giant Star Wars ships... THAT be even cooler.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Just like anything else... it'll all be about money. I think they'll use the MOTUC castle... with possibly a few updates. Like a new throne designed specifically for the Origins characters.

    Otherwise, the tooling is already done... and that's where most of the cost comes from on these things. I can't see them resculpting something that looks almost exactly like what they already did.

    Most importantly... the scale of the castle will be even better for the shorter figures. It was always just a LITTLE too small for Classics. For my vintage He-man, it looks pretty amazing.


    UNLESS they have found the molds to the ORIGINAL Castle Grayskull and want to rerelease THAT... similar to what Hasbro did with some of their giant Star Wars ships... THAT be even cooler.
    I think if they did that or did 3D scans (which is how I think they did most of the Origins buck before Four Horsemen got involved) I could see them doing tooling tweaks to the vintage castle. Replace the throne and most of the accessories with a scaled down Classics version. The weapons rack would be a straight Classics lift.

    Maybe lift some of the dimensional tooling of the accessories and tool it into a Vintage castle. Maybe have the secret door in the rear as a revolving panel and add the outer platform and second story door.

    None of this requires new sculpting work per se. Just take 3D scans of a vintage castle and 3D scans of MOTUC castle parts and bash them together with a few modified pegs.

    Like I say, I think the upper body from Origins was 3D scanned from a vintage figure. They added the articulation tooling (which they already do for 4H sculpts since Horseman sculpts arrive non-articulated).

    The only major deviations I spot with Origins are new heads, hands, and upper thighs. Everything else looks like a straight scan they broke into pieces and added ball joints and pegs to. That immodest loincloth is a perfect recreation of vintage down to the millimeter and only stands out because the figures can stand up straighter, revealing more upper leg.

    If they can do that with figures, I’d wager they could do that with Castle Grayskull and use the Classics accessories modded to fit the vintage castle and vice versa.

    The big tweak I’d expect beyond that is probably to engrave a pattern (stone or wood) onto the floor platforms and add some foot pegs to things like the elevator.

    If they can scan both castles and accessories, it doesn’t take a sculptor to bash them together and adjust dimensions.

    I think a vintage castle that imports some sculpt quality from the Classics version would be VERY on brand for this line.

    And I’d imagine if they did a MOSTLY Vintage castle, they’d want it to import all the play features and color choices that went into the MegaConstrux version.

    One thing: I sincerely doubt they’ll wait to see if the line is a success before doing a castle.

    Mattel is ALL IN on this gamble. They have 4 waves of figures in the works, Battlecat, a Skysled, two cartoons, and a movie.

    Mattel has had a rough few years. They won’t be cautious on this IMHO. It’s all-in. If the line fails, there won’t be a Mattel. So I expect Grayskull on shelves in 12 months.

  3. #28
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I imagine putting the MOTUC castle on shelves would be tricky. That's a hefty box to compete for shelf space anywhere, and its price would be considerable to prohibitive. I think, if they were to use it in any way, it would be scaled down and scaled back quite a bit. I'm prepared to skip any release unless it offers something really unique and new for the playset; otherwise, I'll stick to my MOTUC release.
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  4. #29
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    I can see the new one being a 3D scan, maybe 10% shorter and less "deep" -- a more flattened version of the Classics one. So, it would be TALL but not as deep, it would open at the hinge to make for a large open playset for kids but the inside would hold less figures when closed.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrala View Post

    One thing: I sincerely doubt they’ll wait to see if the line is a success before doing a castle.

    Mattel is ALL IN on this gamble. They have 4 waves of figures in the works, Battlecat, a Skysled, two cartoons, and a movie.

    Mattel has had a rough few years. They won’t be cautious on this IMHO. It’s all-in. If the line fails, there won’t be a Mattel. So I expect Grayskull on shelves in 12 months.
    I hope you're right... I know from my own point of view.. Castle Grayskull MADE MOTU. I was 5 years old when I saw that castle with that artwork at a Tepes in town and absolutely fell in love with it. I begged and pleaded and told my parents I'd just use my old construction workers with it.. but I REALLY wanted that Castle. We never even saw actual MOTU figures that went WITH it for about two months after, and they were always sold out. (first ones I got were He-man and Man-at-arms... the last two on the shelf) after we found out the construction workers didn't sit on the throne...

    But for me, it was always about the castle. Having that in stores is a MUST to make this a success.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    I imagine putting the MOTUC castle on shelves would be tricky. That's a hefty box to compete for shelf space anywhere, and its price would be considerable to prohibitive. I think, if they were to use it in any way, it would be scaled down and scaled back quite a bit. I'm prepared to skip any release unless it offers something really unique and new for the playset; otherwise, I'll stick to my MOTUC release.
    As with any retail... they'll make more and sell it for cheaper. I think we MattyCollector types will have easily paid at least double what the same castle will go for in retail.

    As for box size... it's big, yeah.... but wandering around at Christmas time I have seen a LOT of giant boxes on endcaps and aisles for things like the Frozen 2 castle and the like... SO while it's unlikely, I wouldn't say impossible.

    For my part.. I'd say change the throne and that's it. it even doubles up for the people who bought Snake Mountain and now want a Castle Grayskull. Shrinking it would be a bad idea. It doesn't really need to be smaller. the big one is perfectly 'in scale' as long as the throne works.




    Personally if I was redesigning it... I would actually cut out the 'extra doors'. The whole idea is that Castle Grayskull is HARD to get in... having THREE entrances on two sides of the castle makes that feel weird. Also hate the dungeon/cell. I would have had the chains attach to the wall... and the dungeon sticker, but the way Classics was designed... the trap door failed, and getting anyone in or out of that jail door is an absolute bear. And once in you can't get the chains to work... or even see them in there... It's just a bad feature. Great idea, terrible exectution. I'd scrap that. But for money saving aspects... I'd just rerelease what they have the molds for and go to town

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    Iím sorry but anyone that thinks the classics castle is being re-issued or anything close to its size is sadly mistaken. If Mattel makes a castle it will be like the vintage playset. No way will it be over $100. It will be small footprint box as well. Walmart and target are only stocking big items at Christmas. And even then it must be a big property. This all sounds great but this will be 2020, not 1984. Kids want tech, most of us are near or over 40.

    I could be wrong, but I doubt it. No way are target and Walmart stocking a toy the size of a small fridge at hundreds of dollars for a property that has no movie. If Iím wrong Iíll eat my hat.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    I’m sorry but anyone that thinks the classics castle is being re-issued or anything close to its size is sadly mistaken. If Mattel makes a castle it will be like the vintage playset. No way will it be over $100. It will be small footprint box as well. Walmart and target are only stocking big items at Christmas. And even then it must be a big property. This all sounds great but this will be 2020, not 1984. Kids want tech, most of us are near or over 40.

    I could be wrong, but I doubt it. No way are target and Walmart stocking a toy the size of a small fridge at hundreds of dollars for a property that has no movie. If I’m wrong I’ll eat my hat.
    I agree the more I think about it. Its a LOT of shelf space...
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  8. #33
    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    I could see something on the order of the 200x castle happening. In my memory the box of that thing was like a medium pizza box. Not too crazy for a store shelf.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    I could see something on the order of the 200x castle happening. In my memory the box of that thing was like a medium pizza box. Not too crazy for a store shelf.
    I was thinking that too and am sort of dreading it, it just isn’t the same. That Castle was underwhelming compared to the original IMO.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razzerian View Post
    I was thinking that too and am sort of dreading it, it just isnít the same. That Castle was underwhelming compared to the original IMO.
    To me, the underwhelmingness of it is blamed on the skull. It is really lame looking, and the insignia on the forehead brings a major goof factor.

    I appreciate that it respects your space. Itís broad, but not thick. Itís a decent facade that can fold up and tuck away.

    If it had a better skull, I think it would be remembered a little more fondly. People would still be disappointed in its nothing-happening interior, but itíd be more attractive.

  11. #36
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    I would love it if they would do an original castle sculpt based on the Filmation design, but they don't seem to like the that design enough to do that, for whatever reason, even though it's the more iconic look. Yes, I am bitter that they haven't at least made a Filmation Greyskull facade by now.

    We will probably get just the front facade of the Vintage Castle Grayskull slightly tweaked. It won't have the second wall to open. If you look at most of the playsets at Walmart these days, they are almost always facades because it's half the price of making a playset in three dimensions that opens and closes.

    Sad.

    ...it might make sense to reuse the molds from the Classics castle, but again Mattel is only interested in the bottom line, and as we all will know they don't consider Masters a big seller. It was a drop in the bucket property for them. They are going to go into this new revival extremely cautiously, especially if they are going to create new lines to reflect the two new shows or possible movie.

    I'm betting it would be more cost-effective for them to sculpt a brand-new Grayskull facade in the style of the vintage one and mass produce it, over making more of the very large bulky two-walled Classics castle... Which sold for $100 in its final days, at half its original ticket value if I recall correctly. Origins seems to be like the type of product they want people to pick up casually, meaning the price point will have to stay low. A Grayskull facade seems like a safe bet.
    Last edited by DisneyBoy; December 26, 2019 at 02:30am.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    I would love it if they would do an original castle sculpt based on the Filmation design, but they don't seem to like the that design enough to do that, for whatever reason, even though it's the more iconic look. Yes, I am bitter that they haven't at least made a Filmation Greyskull facade by now.

    We will probably get just the front facade of the Vintage Castle Grayskull slightly tweaked. It won't have the second wall to open. If you look at most of the playsets at Walmart these days, they are almost always facades because it's half the price of making a playset in three dimensions that opens and closes.

    Sad.

    ...it might make sense to reuse the molds from the Classics castle, but again Mattel is only interested in the bottom line, and as we all will know they don't consider Masters a big seller. It was a drop in the bucket property for them. They are going to go into this new revival extremely cautiously, especially if they are going to create new lines to reflect the two new shows or possible movie.

    I'm betting it would be more cost-effective for them to sculpt a brand-new Grayskull facade in the style of the vintage one and mass produce it, over making more of the very large bulky two-walled Classics castle... Which sold for $100 in its final days, at half its original ticket value if I recall correctly. Origins seems to be like the type of product they want people to pick up casually, meaning the price point will have to stay low. A Grayskull facade seems like a safe bet.
    My wallet and shelves would be thankful if the playsets are facades and I’d rather have a quality interior sculpt than a clamshell, ala the quality of the discount Justice League sets.

    I PERSONALLY wouldn’t object to cramming the play features into less space with the elevator replacing the trap door next to Grayskull’s throne or Snake Mountain having the snake head and manacles on a single shell with maybe a bit more cartoon Snake Mountain contour. I have a vintage Snake Mountain taking up most of a shelf and I’d be happy with a single facade Snake Mountain butted up against it as a third section.

    Single facade playsets could probably sell with a figure for $75. Sorceress with Grayskull. Maybe King Hiss or Terror Claw Skeletor with Snake Mountain. And at that price point, if the line goes for years, maybe we get a bigger Fright Zone that mixes Slime Pit and Fright Zone as a third one and an Eternos Palace and/or a Point Dread with Grayskull’s back wall.

  13. #38
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    If MOTU Origins ever gets a Castle Grayskull, I would expect it to be an update of the vintage castle - something similar to the Funko DC Primal Age Batcave, which is close to the same size as the vintage Castle Graskull. Target's original price for the DC Primal Age Batcave was about $60, if I remember correctly. I got mine for a little less. It's now selling on clearance online for $30. While MOTU Origins may end up being more popular than the DC Primal Age line, I don't think Mattel would be willing to take the risk of releasing anything that would go for much more than $60 or $70 as a MOTU Origins playset.

  14. #39
    Searchin' My Soul DisneyBoy's Avatar
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    Um...where is it selling online at clearance? Inquiring minds want to know

  15. #40
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    All this talk about a new Origins CG has got me excited. I sold off my vintage CG last year, so could do with another one. Nothing will top the Classics one for me, but I'm interested in seeing how Mattel tackle this one.

    Origins Castle Grayskull for Christmas Day 2020 anyone?
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    Iím sorry but anyone that thinks the classics castle is being re-issued or anything close to its size is sadly mistaken. If Mattel makes a castle it will be like the vintage playset. No way will it be over $100. It will be small footprint box as well. Walmart and target are only stocking big items at Christmas. And even then it must be a big property. This all sounds great but this will be 2020, not 1984. Kids want tech, most of us are near or over 40.

    I could be wrong, but I doubt it. No way are target and Walmart stocking a toy the size of a small fridge at hundreds of dollars for a property that has no movie. If Iím wrong Iíll eat my hat.
    No hat eating for you, that is sensible and realistic view.

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  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior Razzerian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orko's Magic Hat View Post
    All this talk about a new Origins CG has got me excited. I sold off my vintage CG last year, so could do with another one. Nothing will top the Classics one for me, but I'm interested in seeing how Mattel tackle this one.

    Origins Castle Grayskull for Christmas Day 2020 anyone?
    That would be awesome! I bought my Classics castle this past year and my son loves it, I let him play with it for a while but obviously I'm not going to let him wreck a 600 euro castle

    He has a vintage one but that simply doesn't have the amount of details he wants, I have a MCX one stored away for him when he's a little older... but a new one in the Origins line for christmas 2020 would be perfect!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    Um...where is it selling online at clearance? Inquiring minds want to know
    $30 at Amazon. Don’t buy single Primal Age figs there as Amazon had a bad production run on Primal Age wave 1 but the mounts are routinely $7-10 and the Batcave is hovering around $30 and they pair well with MOTU, especially vintage and Origins.

  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Let's look at this objectively. Mattel wants to make money. They already have the Castle designed and molded from the MOTUC line.

    Large boxes aren't an issue for virtual stores or Wal-Mart (ie, where 90% of toy sales occur today). Target is the new K-Mart (slowly dying), which is why Mattel partnered with Wal-Mart for their most recent exclusives; so Target's (or the non-existent small Mom and Pop toy stores people bizarrely still refer to) objections to box size are irrelevant. Mattel wants a large box because it's basically a giant advertisement for the line.

    The only money Mattel will have to sink into re-releasing the MOTUC Castle will be in box art and in child safety approval. There's no way, in my reasoning, that we're NOT getting a re-released MOTUC Grayskull.

    Now will it be exactly the same? No, it will probably be dumbed down to a pricepoint. Functionality will be sacrificed either for streamlined production or FTC kid-friendly compliance.

    If Mattel intended on doing a refresh of the OG Grayskull, they would have photographed Orko in the original Castle and not the clearly superior MOTUC version. That alone should be enough of an indicator of where their intentions lie.

  20. #45
    Queen of the evil Horde AlexisLasek's Avatar
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    I understand people's reasoning for classics Grayskull BUT this is a budget line (and why i'm so excited as these I can afford, not to mention the wwe ones that will be new heroes, villains, and townspeople in my cannon/ displays!). I mean $15 for a 5.5 figure, $30 for a figure and vehicle? No way would they use classics Grayskull, they'd want a cheaper version to keep the line cheap for now. IF the line is successful then I could see classics grayskull re-released as an update but not in the beginning.
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  21. #46
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexisLasek View Post
    I understand people's reasoning for classics Grayskull BUT this is a budget line (and why i'm so excited as these I can afford, not to mention the wwe ones that will be new heroes, villains, and townspeople in my cannon/ displays!). I mean $15 for a 5.5 figure, $30 for a figure and vehicle? No way would they use classics Grayskull, they'd want a cheaper version to keep the line cheap for now. IF the line is successful then I could see classics grayskull re-released as an update but not in the beginning.
    As I stated above, Mattel has already paid for the molds and tooling. MOTUC Castle Grayskull is at best, what, 20 bucks worth of plastic? They can sell it for a hundred bucks and still make outrageous profit. The people that purchased it the first time around already crowdfunded its development, which is exactly why Mattel would be shooting themselves in the foot to develop a new one.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker≤ View Post
    As I stated above, Mattel has already paid for the molds and tooling. MOTUC Castle Grayskull is at best, what, 20 bucks worth of plastic? They can sell it for a hundred bucks and still make outrageous profit. The people that purchased it the first time around already crowdfunded its development, which is exactly why Mattel would be shooting themselves in the foot to develop a new one.
    That is a very large steel mold to be sitting around for 8 years. Super7 had issues getting the Mattel molds, because many no longer exist. Iím sorry but Iím at about zero chance the classics castle or anything close to scale will hit retail. Toy sections continue to shrink.

    The toy world is changing and fast.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by horseman1981 View Post
    That is a very large steel mold to be sitting around for 8 years. Super7 had issues getting the Mattel molds, because many no longer exist. I’m sorry but I’m at about zero chance the classics castle or anything close to scale will hit retail. Toy sections continue to shrink.

    The toy world is changing and fast.
    You can 3D print steel and buff out the imperfections. Depending on the scale planned, it’s no longer as critical to keep molds on hand.

  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    From what I understand, the molds that were destroyed were the ones that had reached their working lifespan or were otherwise useless or damaged. (This is why the bootleg figures coming out of China are lacking in detail; it's been all but confirmed that they're being struck from the worn out molds that Mattel ordered destroyed.)

    Yes, storage is a factor, but they only made one run of CG, so I doubt the molds are worn out. As pointed out, the designs are still sitting on a server somewhere, so in worst case scenario a new mold can be struck with little effort and cost.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker≤ View Post
    As I stated above, Mattel has already paid for the molds and tooling. MOTUC Castle Grayskull is at best, what, 20 bucks worth of plastic? They can sell it for a hundred bucks and still make outrageous profit.
    You are way off on your guess here. Yes, they have paid for the molds and tooling, and can use them again if they are still available and in good shape, however Chinese labor costs and materials are no cheaper than they were 6 years ago. The production costs would be significantly more than you think. It would also be difficult to find a big retail buyer interested in a product with this large of a footprint.

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