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Thread: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

  1. #326
    Heroic Warrior IceyCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I wasn't aware of that, Icey, and I'm truly sorry it's that way for you. While Kim and I have been using InstaCart and Shipt for our family for nearly a year now, in recent days it's been a real blessing. With your post, I now realize there's a vast difference with regard to it in the country where we live and in the city with you and many others live. We continue to get deliveries within less than twenty-four hours and often same day. I hope when the curve flattens that the cities will have that happening too.
    No worries. We were really stocked up, so we have only had to go out once every other week so far since the end of January. Thankfully Chris now agrees with wearing a mask. He went to Wegman's the other night with one on. He said a lot of the people there had them on too.
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  2. #327
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I’m officially done going on grocery runs. I last went Thursday, and ordered today for a delivery that will come next Tuesday. We’re not hoarding or even going overboard stocking up; just going week by week. Our stores have been great keeping items coming in plentifully.
    Last edited by Uki; April 6, 2020 at 01:17pm.
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  3. #328
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    I'm becoming more doubtful of the virus threat and more eager for us to terminate this destructive economic recession ASAP. The doomsday numbers are not adding up.

    We feared this would mirror the 1918 flu pandemic, which killed 50 million people (2.8% of world population). But after months of COVID-19, we have just topped 61,000 global deaths (0.00087% of population).

    And here's where I am really getting skeptical. Back in November, a "strange pneumonia" appeared in many countries, including Italy, Australia, and the US. It was affecting the elderly at significantly high rates and caused many deaths. What if these were COVID-19 infections and we simply were not aware of the virus? What if this thing has already made its way around the globe?

    Back in late December/early January I had a nasty flu-like cold. Made me feel like garbage for about three days, and milder symptoms lingered for another two weeks (btw I did receive my flu vaccine in December). I have very little doubt I had COVID-19, with all the traveling I do.

    Unfortunately, we will never know the real answer. 2-3 weeks after contraction, you can no longer test positive. But we sure do seem to be having a hell of a lot of confirmed cases that are also asymptomatic. Lack of symptoms could well be due to antibodies from prior contact.

  4. #329
    Master of Voice Overs! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post
    I'm becoming more doubtful of the virus threat and more eager for us to terminate this destructive economic recession ASAP. The doomsday numbers are not adding up.
    I have far too many people that I know that are extremely sick or in the hospital to agree with that. I think the thing is a real threat and based on how it has affected my friends and relatives, it's a thing to really take seriously. My thoughts. Not the Tar Swamp so I'd like to leave it at that on my end. :-)

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  5. #330
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    I have far too many people that I know that are extremely sick or in the hospital to agree with that. I think the thing is a real threat and based on how it has affected my friends and relatives, it's a thing to really take seriously.
    The number of hospitalized patients begs the question of how many people have been hospitalized during past flu seasons at similar levels. We've actually had plenty of those times, and it did make news, but it was not accompanied by widespread panic and media frenzy.

    There is a difference between taking something seriously and overreacting. I'm suggesting we may be overreacting, all things considered.

  6. #331
    Master of Voice Overs! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post
    The number of hospitalized patients begs the question of how many people have been hospitalized during past flu seasons at similar levels. We've actually had plenty of those times, and it did make news, but it was not accompanied by widespread panic and media frenzy.

    There is a difference between taking something seriously and overreacting. I'm suggesting we may be overreacting, all things considered.
    With NYC pulling up refrigerated semi truck rigs to use as temporary morgues because of the amount of death, I think I'll take that as a sign that this is more serious than a past flu season. Overreacting in this instance may prove to be more beneficial for us versus the alternative.

    -Johnny C

  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post
    I'm becoming more doubtful of the virus threat and more eager for us to terminate this destructive economic recession ASAP. The doomsday numbers are not adding up.
    We shouldn't take this virus very lightly to be honest, I believe that somehow the lockdown kinda help the situation instead of letting people interact without social distance which can lead something even worse. 50 million people die on the Spanish Flu is half of the biggest war casualties, You don't want that to happen in this information technology where the news spreads like a wildfire. recession is expected when something's out of hand happens, it's not like we're literally bursting any bubbles like the last time.

    but people breaking the order and social panic are the only pet peeve I have in this virus situation.

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  8. #333
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    I'd like to leave it at that on my end.
    It is amusing how often people make this comment, and then continue replying thereafter as if they'd never said it.


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    With NYC pulling up refrigerated semi truck rigs to use as temporary morgues because of the amount of death, I think I'll take that as a sign that this is more serious than a past flu season. Overreacting in this instance may prove to be more beneficial for us versus the alternative.

    -Johnny C
    You keep talking anecdotally and without any data.

    In the 2017-2018 flu season, approximately 810,000 Americans were hospitalized. That hospital rate was a multiple of most previous years, and yet there was no widespread media panic to stir up everyone's emotions. We're still working on our numbers here for this COVID-19 that has existed since December [and very likely before], but at merely 300K confirmed cases -- many of them asymptomatic and a low percentage hospitalized -- we're not anywhere near 2018 numbers.

    Everyone wants to make knee-jerk emotional assessments of this thing, and that is how we get led by the nose into a panic that puts millions of people through financial hardship and threatens many of them with longer-term poverty.

    Those are the risks of collective overreaction. Each death from the virus is a tragedy, but many of those deaths would have occurred due to the flu -- and indeed many are occurring due to the flu, as both hospitals and other officials are starting to get busted inflating COVID deaths in an apparent attempt to secure more funding. Putting people into poverty may be a less dramatic affair in the news, but it impacts many more people, and does so in a slow, sclerotic fashion that takes years to overcome. Sorry, but overreacting is not a good idea just because we are too emotionally frazzled to look at some data, and it is not necessarily the "safe play."
    Last edited by moltak; April 5, 2020 at 11:42am.

  9. #334
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Until we know more, and that will likely be a couple of years from now, I think "overreacting" is probably the right thing to do. For now. However, I can definitely see where moltak is coming from, but itís just too early to say we are overreacting at this precise moment.

    A lot of people are suspecting they may have already had this thing. I myself am leaning that way now. I just don't know. Iím one of those people who, when it comes to colds and general illness, am usually quite lucky. I never really suffer with bad symptoms. Maybe a sniffle and a bad throat here and there, but very rarely am I ever actually "ill". However, in late January, I fell down hard with something. Had it all. Fever, chills, aching muscles, weakness, tiredness, a horrible throat and just a general feeling of yuckiness. At its apex, it lasted for about two days and then gradually improved. Thing is, I got it just a few days after I had been to London for the first time in many years (I live about 100 miles north of London), which is now the epicentre of the virus in the UK. Did I have it? Have no idea, but I had something very nasty and I haven't felt the way I did for many years.

    One thing I do think is right, and that is that this thing has been around a lot longer than we all think.

  10. #335
    Master of Voice Overs! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post
    You keep talking anecdotally and without any data.
    Sometimes what's in front of you is all the data one needs.

    Listen, man... All I'm saying to you as that my relatives in Italy are dead. They're sick. My friends in NYC are sick, some dying as well. There's obviously a reason for it that is out of the ordinary. You can post this statistic and that one if ya want and there is merit to it. But I'll continue to look at what's happening to my loved ones and call a spade a spade. That, again, is all the data I need.

    -Johnny C

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by moltak View Post

    You keep talking anecdotally and without any data.
    I agree with Johnny, observation are way better than what the sheet present us. We're not even a scientist to even decipher what's on the sheet.

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  12. #337
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    Sometimes what's in front of you is all the data one needs.

    Listen, man... All I'm saying to you as that my relatives in Italy are dead. They're sick. My friends in NYC are sick, some dying as well. There's obviously a reason for it that is out of the ordinary. You can post this statistic and that one if ya want and there is merit to it. But I'll continue to look at what's happening to my loved ones and call a spade a spade. That, again, is all the data I need.

    -Johnny C
    I disagree with abandoning data in favor of anecdotal evidence, and I think the flip side of the coin needs to be discussed much more widely than it currently seems to be.

    But I understand that is easier for me to say under my current circumstances than it is for many others. I do sympathize, and I am sorry for your loss.

  13. #338
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    Information is a funny thing. Many maps are showing data that is pulled from cellphone tracking showing areas that are doing better at social distancing based on traffic.

    My county based on my states map is failing hard. But when you take into account that many of the people who are working are oilfield and literally have 45 minute or longer non stop drives to their work sites things start to fall apart. I can tell you I have noticed fewer drivers at 3-5 oclock prime time driving, a lot fewer. Schools aren't busing, people are staying home, etc.

    Turn around I have a friend sharing information that the transmission of the virus might not be as easy as it was thought, and another sharing that tigers apparently have the disease in New York Zoo.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...RAaFQuHVxD-U6k

    https://www.wkrn.com/news/tiger-at-n...lLAeJ7EULMMSuI
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  14. #339
    Heroic Warrior manowar's Avatar
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    The thing about this virus is the wide range of reactions people are having to it. You have asymptomatic people, who might experience a sore throat, body aches and a cough for a few days, then you have the people who are intubated and on respirators.

    Until testing is readily available, the best guess to the actual number of cases are forecasts.

    I think once testing is available to not only check for those who are currently infected, but show that others have gone through the illness, and developed antibodies , will we have a better grasp on the total number of people who were infected.

    To downplay this situation is a poor decision.

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  15. #340
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar View Post
    To downplay this situation is a poor decision.
    I agree with you.




    My school district has officially cancelled in-person teaching for the remainder of the 2019-2020 school year.

    We will finish out this semester using online teaching.

    I am devastated... I miss my students so much and it really hurts knowing that I will not get to see them and wish them well this summer.
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  16. #341
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceyCat View Post
    Our Instacart locally is overwhelmed. They are taking orders for next week, so if you order now it will be at least 7 or 8 days before they deliver it. I sent Chris with a mask. He said more people are wearing masks and gloves now (I didn't think to have him wear gloves).
    Walmart pick up delivery is full for 8 days in our area. And that's 5 different Walmarts.

    Amazon will let you order but lots of things on back log.

    We stood in line and got groceries. The line sucks but once you get inside it's free sailing because there's so little other shoppers. Plus only one person at the register at a time.


    Until the number of cases stops growing, and the number of deaths stop rising, I think we should try to do our part to keep everyone safe.

    However, putting ridiculous stay at home measures that still allow you to go out for 28 different reasons really isn't go to do the trick. This is the case for my state. Meanwhile the economy is suffering.

    Guys my company was doing fantastic right up until the week this thing really started getting out of hand. As of now, 30 employees will be let go two weeks from now. This is what I was scared of and it will continue to get worse.
    Last edited by Dice; April 6, 2020 at 10:53am.
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  17. #342
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Until the number of cases stops growing, and the number of deaths stop rising, I think we should try to do our part to keep everyone safe.

    However, putting ridiculous stay at home measures that still allow you to go out for 28 different reasons really isn't go to do the trick. This is the case for my state. Meanwhile the economy is suffering.
    Exactly, and at the risk of being a broken record, "the economy" means everybody's job/income, home, food, health care, etc. It does not just mean Wall St investor profits. If incentive for trade goes down the toilet and we enter a depression, a LOT of people are going to wish they had been more concerned about the economy.

    My biggest fear is that those of us who are still receiving income will allow this semi-lockdown to go on for way longer than it should, while ignoring/marginalizing the unemployed and small business folks, who are getting CRUSHED financially and will have to chew through huge ankle weights for years to come.

    Being concerned about the national (& global) economy does not mean NOT being concerned about the virus. We can blend the two concerns into a more complex approach, one that appropriately mitigates both threats, rather than pretending only one of them is a threat.

    Get people back to work, with stiff social distancing protocols in place. Still shelter individuals at an elevated risk, and everyone else practice good hygiene (avoid physical contact, no face touching, stay at home if sick, mask wear encouraged, etc). That will be a much wiser solution than semi/sort of/but not really staying at home, while ruining people's jobs and still circulating the virus, only slightly slower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    We stood in line and got groceries. The line sucks but once you get inside it's free sailing because there's so little other shoppers. Plus only one person at the register at a time.
    Truly one of the silver linings in this mess! I'll happily stand in line outside for 10-20 minutes (as long as it's sunny) in exchange for a roomy store and no checkout line.

  18. #343
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    There are too many factors and there is far too much blind trust placed in the idea of allowing so many to return to work even with strict guidelines.
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  19. #344
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    There are too many factors and there is far too much blind trust placed in the idea of allowing so many to return to work even with strict guidelines.
    Vs. everybody stay at home unless you need to go to Walmart, the liquor store, grab some shrubs and fence supplies, buy a gun, pick up Chik-Fil-A, get gas, walk your dog, go to work, go check on your grandma, take your sister some toilet paper, take your car in for an oil change, play 2 on 2 basketball, or go to church.

    Yeah we can't trust people to go back to work
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  20. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Vs. everybody stay at home unless you need to go to Walmart, the liquor store, grab some shrubs and fence supplies, buy a gun, pick up Chik-Fil-A, get gas, walk your dog, go to work, go check on your grandma, take your sister some toilet paper, take your car in for an oil change, play 2 on 2 basketball, or go to church.

    Yeah we can't trust people to go back to work

    Odd and ironic to see how many of my Liberal friends are demonstrating sudden support for the Second Amendment by showing up at our local gun shop while I'm stocking up on ammo for my Mossberg 500.

  21. #346
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    I will say its nice to see a lot of the "limit 1 per customer" signs going down. Outside of cleaning supplies, most stuff like water, milk and such have stopped being limited. I think the only thing I've seen still being limited is eggs.
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  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    I will say its nice to see a lot of the "limit 1 per customer" signs going down. Outside of cleaning supplies, most stuff like water, milk and such have stopped being limited. I think the only thing I've seen still being limited is eggs.
    Maybe in the grocery stores, but that doesn't seem to the be case with ammo sales in gun shops. Those who have long had weapons for defense have surely already stocked up. But with background checks spiking -- up 92% in Texas according to the FBI, I think the supplies available will get worse.

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  23. #348
    Heroic Warrior moltak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    There are too many factors and there is far too much blind trust placed in the idea of allowing so many to return to work even with strict guidelines.
    Where are you seeing "blind trust" in that idea, and "far too much" besides? For my part, I am noticing hardly anyone representing that perspective or concern.

    The only blindness I'm observing is people fixating on the virus as some end-all be-all apocalypse and ignoring/forgetting/pretending/denying that a long-term lockdown is putting literally millions of Americans (likely hundreds of millions on a global scale) in danger of being unable to pay for their next grocery run or doctor's visit.

    When I suggest we adopt a more nuanced and complex approach that balances the virus and the economy, people look at me like I just said the earth is flat. In the meantime we have all these huge logical holes in the data and projection models and reporting that have been mentioned above.

    Sometimes I think the majority of people would just trot right into totalitarianism and slavery if the rest of the herd did so.
    Last edited by moltak; April 6, 2020 at 09:58pm.

  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Vs. everybody stay at home unless you need to go to Walmart, the liquor store, grab some shrubs and fence supplies, buy a gun, pick up Chik-Fil-A, get gas, walk your dog, go to work, go check on your grandma, take your sister some toilet paper, take your car in for an oil change, play 2 on 2 basketball, or go to church.

    Yeah we can't trust people to go back to work

    and people think not going to work means other activity (kinda like vacation) doesn't help the situation either.

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  25. #350
    Heroic Warrior jeffcope's Avatar
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    Just saw on Facebook that Tom Derenickís (artist on the backhalf of the Masters of the Multiverse comic) brother and father both have Covid-19. His brotherís case is fairly mild, while his dadís is more serious. Keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

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