Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Originally Posted by The All American

Hope he feels better real soon!

Has he been out in public much? The kids I see around the neighborhood seem to be socializing as they always have, especially more early on when spring began.

Max has been in our home except for two playdates because he was going nuts. Neither of the children displayed symptoms. Our doctor ran a test for strep and Kim is taking him to a drive-through COVID-19 test site now. Results take three to five days.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

Our twelve-year old Max woke up with a 102.4 temperature and a sore throat. Going in for testing.

Prayers and good wishes please...

Prayers and good wishes indeed. I hope that he feels better soon.

Originally Posted by The All American

Approved vaccines go through years of testing before approval. You're referencing what might happen after a drug is approved.

It is exactly the same process.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

It is exactly the same process.

If so, your point is still irrelevant because approved vaccines are tested for years before approval.


This article does a good job pointing out why it takes years to approve a vaccine and the potential dangers of rushing the process: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/publ...virus-vaccine/

How are vaccines made?
Vaccines generally take 10 to 20 years to be developed and can cost millions, if not billions, of dollars, health experts say.

"The process of developing, testing and licensing a vaccine for widespread population use is designed to be slow, deliberative, peer-reviewed, reflective, evidence-based, so that we don't make mistakes," Dr. Greg Poland, director of the Mayo Clinic's Vaccine Research Group, told U.S. News & World Report.

What are the risks of speeding up vaccine development?
Health experts have warned that though technology may allow researchers speed up vaccine development, there are risks to doing so.

During the preclinical stage, before it’s tested on humans, a vaccine is tested on animals. The preclinical stage allows researchers to make sure a vaccine doesn’t have an effect known as vaccine enhancement, which makes a disease worse when a person who is vaccinated gets infected.

“I understand the importance of accelerating timelines for vaccines in general, but from everything I know, this is not the vaccine to be doing it with,” Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, told Reuters.

Hotez also worked on the development of a SARS vaccine and said some animals experienced vaccine enhancement during those trials.

In an effort to make a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as possible, some researchers are skipping animal trials.

Additionally, some of the methods being used to develop the vaccines are new, leaving some things unknown.

Moderna, a biotechnology company that developed a vaccine that’s in clinical trials in Seattle, developed its vaccine using a new, untested method, Business Insider reported. The technique uses genetic codes of a virus, instead of a dead or inactive virus, to develop a vaccine.

No vaccine that is now available has been made using this method, according to STAT News.

“We have not previously tested our rapid response capability and may be unable to produce a vaccine that successfully treats the virus in a timely manner, if at all,” Moderna wrote in a document filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, STAT News reported.

Health experts say there’s also a risk that a vaccine won’t provide long-lasting immunity to the virus. It’s possible a virus will mutate around a vaccine, rendering it ineffective.

It’s also possible that there may be safety consequences for vaccines approved too quickly. Health experts say that if a vaccine is rushed to market, it will be crucial to observe what happens to vaccinated people.

“The more you speed it up … the greater the obligation you have to track what’s going on when you get it out into the real world,” Arthur Caplan, head of medical ethics at New York University’s Grossman School of Medicine, told STAT News.

Chris here...

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

Our twelve-year old Max woke up with a 102.4 temperature and a sore throat. Going in for testing.

Prayers and good wishes please...

Sorry to hear this Jack. Any news??

Hope that, whatever the test result, Max makes a swift recovery - thoughts & prayers heading your way, my friend.

Take care...

Originally Posted by The All American

If so, your point is still irrelevant because approved vaccines are tested for years before approval.


This article does a good job pointing out why it takes years to approve a vaccine and the potential dangers of rushing the process: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/publ...virus-vaccine/

Normally, researchers need years to secure funding, get approvals, and study results piece-by-piece, but these are not normal times. There are already over 250 therapies and 95 vaccines related to Covid-19 being explored.

And we already have a head start on the first phase of vaccine development. The outbreaks of SARS and MERS, which are also caused by coronaviruses, spurred lots of research. SARS and SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, are roughly 80-percent identical, and both use so-called "spike proteins" to grab onto a specific receptor found on cells in human lungs. This is how scientists developed a test for Covid-19 so quickly.

The next step is pre-clinical work, in which a pilot factory is readied to produce enough vaccine for trials. Researchers relying on groundwork from the SARS and MERS outbreaks could move through these steps swiftly.

Then they test the vaccine first on small batches of people: a few dozen during Phase 1, then a few hundred in Phase 2, then thousands in Phase 3. Months normally pass between phases so that researchers can review the findings and get approvals for subsequent phases. But there are ways to slash time off this process by combining several phases, and testing vaccines on more people without as much waiting. The National Academy of Sciences describes this overlapping timeline as moving at "pandemic speed."

If a vaccine proves successful in early trials, regulators could issue an emergency-use provision so that doctors, nurses, and other essential workers could get vaccinated right away, even before the end of the year. After only hundreds or thousands are vaccinated, researchers would be able to see if the fast-tracked vaccine caused any unexpected problems.

Once we have a working vaccine, companies will need to start producing millions of doses, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is already building factories for seven different vaccines in development.

The final step is FDA approval, which typically takes a full-year. During this time, scientists and advisory committees review the studies to make sure that the vaccine is as safe and effective as drug makers say it is. But again, this timeline has nothing to do with how long it takes to do the work. Nearly every thing affecting the vaccine approval timeline is bureaucracy and availability of resources, all of which can be reprioritized in an emergency.

The efficacy and safety of a potential vaccine is not going to be compromised by expediting the process. Anyone who works in technology or is familiar with agile ways of working understands this. You can shorten the timeline of any goal and still be in full-compliance if you reprioritize the work and allocate more resources to the effort. That is all that is happening here. Approvals do not take as long as they do because that is how long they take, but because there is no urgency to approve things sooner.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

Max has been in our home except for two playdates because he was going nuts. Neither of the children displayed symptoms. Our doctor ran a test for strep and Kim is taking him to a drive-through COVID-19 test site now. Results take three to five days.

Hope all comes back negative Jack, Definitely going to be thinking of you and your family.

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

Normally, researchers need years to secure funding, get approvals, and study results piece-by-piece, but these are not normal times. There are already over 250 therapies and 95 vaccines related to Covid-19 being explored.

And we already have a head start on the first phase of vaccine development. The outbreaks of SARS and MERS, which are also caused by coronaviruses, spurred lots of research. SARS and SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, are roughly 80-percent identical, and both use so-called "spike proteins" to grab onto a specific receptor found on cells in human lungs. This is how scientists developed a test for Covid-19 so quickly.

The next step is pre-clinical work, in which a pilot factory is readied to produce enough vaccine for trials. Researchers relying on groundwork from the SARS and MERS outbreaks could move through these steps swiftly.

Then they test the vaccine first on small batches of people: a few dozen during Phase 1, then a few hundred in Phase 2, then thousands in Phase 3. Months normally pass between phases so that researchers can review the findings and get approvals for subsequent phases. But there are ways to slash time off this process by combining several phases, and testing vaccines on more people without as much waiting. The National Academy of Sciences describes this overlapping timeline as moving at "pandemic speed."

If a vaccine proves successful in early trials, regulators could issue an emergency-use provision so that doctors, nurses, and other essential workers could get vaccinated right away, even before the end of the year. After only hundreds or thousands are vaccinated, researchers would be able to see if the fast-tracked vaccine caused any unexpected problems.

Once we have a working vaccine, companies will need to start producing millions of doses, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is already building factories for seven different vaccines in development.

The final step is FDA approval, which typically takes a full-year. During this time, scientists and advisory committees review the studies to make sure that the vaccine is as safe and effective as drug makers say it is. But again, this timeline has nothing to do with how long it takes to do the work. Nearly every thing affecting the vaccine approval timeline is bureaucracy and availability of resources, all of which can be reprioritized in an emergency.

The efficacy and safety of a potential vaccine is not going to be compromised by expediting the process. Anyone who works in technology or is familiar with agile ways of working understands this. You can shorten the timeline of any goal and still be in full-compliance if you reprioritize the work and allocate more resources to the effort. That is all that is happening here. Approvals do not take as long as they do because that is how long they take, but because there is no urgency to approve things sooner.

I appreciate the long detailed response. However, I'm still not seeing how safety, especially long term safety, is being ensured. How can you understand potential long term side effects in a small window of time?

This Association of American Medical Colleges article highlights the potential risk: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...vid-19-vaccine

...bringing a vaccine from lab to public deployment proceeds at a glacial pace, and it’s a costly expedition. “From the creation of the idea to having a marketable vaccine is usually seven to 10 years or more, and about 1 billion U.S. dollars,” says Gregory A. Poland, MD, director of the Mayo Vaccine Research Group.

That’s by design: the design of human biology and procedures built to minimize harm.

Reducing risks
Vaccine testing proceeds slowly because the human body responds slowly: It takes weeks to produce the antibodies that provide immunity, and it can take longer to show harmful side effects.

“The regulatory pathway is meant to be slow, deliberate, reflective,” Poland says. “Data-rich, data-informed, and peer reviewed. Where you shortcut that, you can run into problems.”

Researchers hope they can fulfill the projections. “All of us have families, too,” Poland says. “We’re as anxious to see this get done as anybody.

“Yet at the same time, if we aren’t deliberate and careful, we could harm people. We have to remember that.”

Originally Posted by The All American

I appreciate the long detailed response. However, I'm still not seeing how safety, especially long term safety, is being ensured. How can you understand potential long term side effects in a small window of time?

This Association of American Medical Colleges article highlights the potential risk: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...vid-19-vaccine

Long-term safety is determined through monitoring. If the phase three test subjects do not experience adverse effects, or experience adverse effects within acceptable limits, the vaccine is approved, and the developer monitors for side-effects over time. No different than the ordinary process.

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Glad to hear he's all right.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

What a relief! Glad you're all okay!

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Fantastic news!

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

So glad to hear this!

Thanks, again, to all for their well wishes, thoughts and prayers. It's very different when you're watching about the pandemic on TV and then you're suddenly worried about your family. So thankful we had a negative ending... (get it?)

Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia

Long-term safety is determined through monitoring. If the phase three test subjects do not experience adverse effects, or experience adverse effects within acceptable limits, the vaccine is approved, and the developer monitors for side-effects over time. No different than the ordinary process.

If you've taken the rushed vaccine and there are long term side effects, there isn't an undo button.

The regular process is deliberate for reasons cited before. I'd rather take a vaccine that went through the regular years of testing than one rushed by pharmaceutical companies and elected officials.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Great news! Glad he is feeling better.

Over 700 newly diagnosed cases in my state...

My school district has now pushed the start of the school-year back one week, and will be entirely online to begin.

Originally Posted by The All American

If you've taken the rushed vaccine and there are long term side effects, there isn't an undo button.

The regular process is deliberate for reasons cited before. I'd rather take a vaccine that went through the regular years of testing than one rushed by pharmaceutical companies and elected officials.

There is no undo button for death either. If a vaccine produced on an accelerated timeline using the same protocols as other vaccines demonstrates efficacy and safety in the near-term it is a safer risk than the disease.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

I apologise for missing your post Jack, but I am very happy that Max does NOT have coronavirus.

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

That's great news, Jack, really glad to hear!

Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Glad to hear it!

My entire family got hit with a sinus infection this month (usually a spring/fall thing in NY). It was odd and the timing was bad. First time in my life I was happy to have a sinus infection.

Heeeere's Olesker!

We got word on our family's Rapid tests yesterday and twelve-year old Max's swab test today. All were negative, so all's well that ends well. Apparently Max had a sinusitis infection. We had him on Erythromycin and Tylenol for three days. His fever -- which at one point was 102.6 -- is now completely gone and our family is back to playing board games and Family Monkey-in-the-Middle. But I can tell you it was a long three days for our family...

Thanks to everyone for prayers and expressions of concern. As I've often said in the past, it is a joy to me how everyone temporarily puts aside our difference and rallies to each each in times of distress. You all helped make it a bit easier for our family and we sincerely thank you.

Best,

Jack

Congratulations Jack, Hopefully it will stay that way and we'll pray you to have a long lasting life.


On my end? We might get another lockdown again, since people thinking Standard of Procedure means Nearly zero cases with schools open... Here's a catch: 2 weeks after the school opens, some people doesn't respect social distancing anymore. So today we spiked up on cases and there's a probability that lockdown is imminent. *sigh*

I’m happy for your positive negatives, Jack!

I’ve gotten so tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) lately, especially with the unknowns of our school year looming and what it might mean for our family. I’ve deleted FB from my phone to get away from the constant barrage of news and, perhaps more importantly, the commentary on the situation.

We had our nephews out for a backyard camp out this weekend. (They’ve been quarantined almost the whole time this has been going on.) It’s so hot out, they played in the Toy Room almost the whole time. It was great seeing these little kids play with MOTUC and having such a blast; it was honestly the happiest I’ve been in quite awhile, I think.

Originally Posted by Uki

I’m happy for your positive negatives, Jack!

I’ve gotten so tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) lately, especially with the unknowns of our school year looming and what it might mean for our family. I’ve deleted FB from my phone to get away from the constant barrage of news and, perhaps more importantly, the commentary on the situation.

We had our nephews out for a backyard camp out this weekend. (They’ve been quarantined almost the whole time this has been going on.) It’s so hot out, they played in the Toy Room almost the whole time. It was great seeing these little kids play with MOTUC and having such a blast; it was honestly the happiest I’ve been in quite awhile, I think.

Resilience is being able to find something to be content about regardless of the situation we find ourselves in. There are many things we cannot change or have control over in life, so in a sense it's probably pointless to dwell on those things.

One of the personal principles I have always tried to live by is .... no matter what happens (or does not happen) tomorrow, I shall do my best to get a good night's rest.

Originally Posted by Uki

I’m happy for your positive negatives, Jack!

I’ve gotten so tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) lately, especially with the unknowns of our school year looming and what it might mean for our family. I’ve deleted FB from my phone to get away from the constant barrage of news and, perhaps more importantly, the commentary on the situation.

We had our nephews out for a backyard camp out this weekend. (They’ve been quarantined almost the whole time this has been going on.) It’s so hot out, they played in the Toy Room almost the whole time. It was great seeing these little kids play with MOTUC and having such a blast; it was honestly the happiest I’ve been in quite awhile, I think.

Thank, Uki.

Boy, do I ever know what you mean about the school year! Our Alex is third year College of Engineering at Purdue, Zoe starts her Film & Television studies at Ball State University this Fall and Max returns to Notre Dame Catholic Elementary School in August...or do they?!

Everything seems so much in flux that it's tough to plan on anything. We were hoping to go to Omaha to visit Kim's father for his eightieth anniversary and then to Branson for five days, but it's all up in the air.

Fortunately the one positive and constant is the love our family members have for each other. I'm sure the same I true for you.