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Thread: The comic book industry and direct market fate

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior Night Stalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amentep View Post
    I'd argue the shift wasn't successful. Its just delayed the doom. Moving to the direct market ensured that the generational churn of readers that kept readership high because new readers came in constantly even as others grew out of the readership. Plus the comics for younger readers didn't survive the transition because the direct market was for adults. Ditto horror, war and western comics.

    I'm not convinced digital is really a solution; unless the main comic producers seriously cut output and overhead.

    Anyhow, I still read comics. Store seems to be doing okay.
    I believe that the Direct Market Boom was more harmful in the long run than it was helpful. Sure, it built up and peaked in the early 90s, but there was nowhere to go after that. And no new readers seeing an interesting Spider-Man or Batman book on the spinner rack at 7-11 to keep the fire stoked.

    Technically, the industry has been in a constant state of decline since WWII. The overall sales of 1950 were half of what they were in 1940, and that percentage remains constantly falling every ten to fifteen years. I remember when people were dropping their jaws when X-Force #1 and X-Men #1 had million-copy print runs in the early nineties. That was the median average print run of most moderately successful Golden Age DC titles circa 1940. It took 50 years to get a handful of issues that matched the average print run of Golden Age books, and 30 years later a million copy print run sounds like an impossibility.

    The world is constantly evolving. People in the 1930s didn't have television. Comics grabbed their attention, and most anyone could spare a dime for 64 pages of color comics, even during the Depression. And everyone read comics: adults, kids, male, female, black, white, brown, etc. They were ostensibly written for kids, but they were enjoyable on an adult level, like the best pulp heroes and serials.

    There was cross-media promotion from Day One: you could watch Superman battle the Molemen on the silver screen in movie form for adults or Saturday Matinees for the kids. There was an animated Max Fleischer Superman short that played before every big movie. You could hear Superman on the radio and read his daily newspaper strip. All of them came with the tagline reminding you to "Read Superman's monthly magazines published by National Periodicals!"

    Adjusted for inflation, we should be getting 64 pages of full color comics today for $2.00. Instead they're double that price for half the page count. There's problem numero uno, and it's a huge problem. All the other problems are ancillary. Availability, story, art, lack of newsstands, kids not reading anymore, etc; these are all real contributing factors to overall decline in comics. But nobody feels that they're receiving any value for their money anymore. It pushes comics directly into the realm of adult collectibles.

    When adult collectors move on for good, who will be left to buy comics? It's the same question I ask about the action figure industry. Comics, toys, trading cards and the like are all fueled by an ever aging adult market who collect out of nostalgia and have disposable income. Kids today aren't growing up with comics and action figures, so 20-30 years from now they'll have no nostalgic need to collect them. I see action figures and comics being viewed in 2050 the way that kids of the 80's viewed slot car racing and model railroad collecting: old, weird and boring.
    Most wanted Origins figures: Mighty Spector, Fisto's Cousin's Babysitter, and Mer-Man's Seventh Grade Crush.

  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Comic books should go back to focussing on younger readers and making enjoyable stories for them to read. And make them more affordable like they used to be.

  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Several things to note.

    Many of the more popular Manga can be quite lengthy. But still they do have a start and finish.

    On page count, you can compare Manga again to comics Manga (collected editions) tend to have a much higher page count and cost is lower. But different paper, not printed in color, often there are a lot of spots you can 'read' through quite quickly. I wouldn't call it filler, i can often read a higher number of Manga pages in the same amount of times a single comic issue.

    Continuity, I have said this before but not in this way, it's a blessing and a curse. People want a continuity, look at how popular American shows have gotten once they started getting more into overarching narratives. But too much continuity becomes too much for most people.

    Some of it is what everyone else is doing. You can often trick people into liking something by telling them it's something else. Look at Anastasia the film, people who thought it was Disney made had over all better reviews. The difference in reading a comic and manga isn't really that different.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there were as many current titles in JP as their are in the US, just the it will end eventually and their means of magazine based weekly anathologies than to collect them into what American think of as Manga are different.

    Marvel and DC are in a problem that any actual significant change could be a giant flaming meteor out of the sky for them.
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  4. #29
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Wow, a lot of great discussion here. Too much for me to reply on each post but I really appreciate each conversation point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
    Comics have been on life support since 1995. The industry has done nothing to bring in new readers and has actively discouraged lifelong readers from remaining customers. The largest publisher (Marvel) has not turned a profit in 20 years from their print division, and are kept alive more as a concession to their licensing and media divisions.

    At a time when most Americans were at home looking for reading material, comic sales tanked even further for new issues. People were buying comics alright; they just weren't manufactured in this century. They wanted comics that were written well and were entertaining, and with very few exceptions, there's nothing like that for sale today. Almost everything printed by the Big Three today is overpriced political snark shoveled out by nihilistic Twitter edgelords who tell anyone that criticizes their work to go commit suicide because the book was written for someone else.

    What I think will happen, unless a few brave fools try to right course, is that digital sales will replace monthly print. Series that sell well digitally will get a 6-issue collected TPB every six months. Other than that, anything on tomorrow's shelves will be collections of older material from back when the industry had a soul (ie, the only material people bother buying in print anymore.)

    I'm a lifelong comics fan. We've been begging the publishers for 20 years to clean up house so we can continue buying their books. The publishers doubled down on their gamble, and now there's barely any readers left and barely any books worth buying. We all lost.
    Well, you just described me. I don't buy any current comics. I made friends with another .orger a few years ago and he likes 70's/80's comics like I do, so I've really been delving into those. When conventions were going on, I could get a lot of cheap $1 or so backissues. There's more dialogue, the canon was less complex, things were more fun, and the art was very colorful. And I also love contained stories. I started serious comic book buying when I was young in 1990. It was hard to get into any series because you buy one issue, and it's the third part of a six part story spanning several different comic series. No 8 year old has that kind of allowance money to afford buying the whole story. So I naturally gravitated to the older comic books that sometimes were cheaper.


    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Yes that guy should know... He's going to one of the one's affected because of his MASSIVE inventory to go along with his MASSIVE over priced books....
    I haven't bought from Mile High Comics in several years. Yes, their prices have really gone up and their selection isn't what it used to be online. I default to eBay but conventions usually have the best deals. I can say I've met the owner Chuck Rozanski twice in the past, and he's a complete gentleman. I definitely recommend taking a look at his very old blog posts on his site about the history of comic books, especially the advent of the direct market. It's quite fascinating.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Comic books should go back to focussing on younger readers and making enjoyable stories for them to read. And make them more affordable like they used to be.
    I totally agree. If you're not promoting to younger children, you're cutting off decades of future sales. When new comics reached beyond $2 or so and there was so few storyline/dialogue that you could finish it in a few minutes, I didn't see the value in it. I'm sure there is plenty of great stuff in comics nowadays, but I don't have any interest at the high price points. I realize that comic books sold back in the day at 35 cents or 50 cents yielded small profits for vendors vs. a regular magazine at $3, but I think there could be a way to sell $1.50 comic books nowadays at regular retail and get kids hooked.

    Imagine if in this past year, with grocery and convenience stores being some of the only places open, parents picking up some comic books at reasonable prices for their stir crazy children. The world could have experienced a new comic book boom, who knows. If not for the direct market the last 40 years, yes, maybe comics wouldn't have survived, but I think to have little to no presence in regular retail where a parent or other family member can pick up a comic book for a child really prevents growth for the medium.

  5. #30
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    I'm going to subscribe to DC Universe Infinite when it becomes available.

    https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/coming-soon/

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    I totally agree. If you're not promoting to younger children, you're cutting off decades of future sales. When new comics reached beyond $2 or so and there was so few storyline/dialogue that you could finish it in a few minutes, I didn't see the value in it. I'm sure there is plenty of great stuff in comics nowadays, but I don't have any interest at the high price points. I realize that comic books sold back in the day at 35 cents or 50 cents yielded small profits for vendors vs. a regular magazine at $3, but I think there could be a way to sell $1.50 comic books nowadays at regular retail and get kids hooked.

    Imagine if in this past year, with grocery and convenience stores being some of the only places open, parents picking up some comic books at reasonable prices for their stir crazy children. The world could have experienced a new comic book boom, who knows. If not for the direct market the last 40 years, yes, maybe comics wouldn't have survived, but I think to have little to no presence in regular retail where a parent or other family member can pick up a comic book for a child really prevents growth for the medium.
    Comics being easily available and resonably priced to encourage children and their parets to buy them would be great and inspire them the same way they inspired and interested us.
    Growing up there wasn't any comic shops around here. The only places to get comic shops was the local newsagents and supermarkets. My fondest memoies of getting comics when I was young was after school going to the newsagents and getting some of the different comics. Over here they were mostly released every two weeks. One week I would get some then the next some others. Back in the late 80's and early 90's there was such a great selection of comics. There was the usual DC and Marvel stuff like Superman, Batman and Spider-Man etc but I was far more interested in the other comics based on the different cartoons like He-Man, Transformers, G.I. Joe, Thundercats, Ghostbusters and TMNT etc.
    Even now I mostly just collect reprints of the older comics. I am not a big fan of a lot of the newer comics DC and Marvel etc are making. Aside from the boring predictable stories the art is quite bland and generic.

  7. #32
    Heroic Warrior Granamyr's Helmet's Avatar
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    I think a lot of discussion here is about making print based American super-hero comics that are more kid friendly versus the state of the comic book industry overall.

    I know manga has been brought up already, I brought it up earlier as well, but I think if you ignore this you're ignoring what a significant amount of younger readers buy like crazy and enjoy much like folks our age enjoyed with Marvel and DC back in our youth. I hate to say this, and I resemble this remark myself for sure, but I think sometimes thinking you know what the younger generation should want is a bit of a pitfall. My young daughter hits me up for manga purchases just as often as I asked my parents for money to buy Spider-Man or X-Men when I was a kid, and I know her friends are largely the same way.

    It's not just that American publishers aren't making youth oriented titles, it's also that they already have really strong youth oriented competition. And when they have tried to go back into younger reader lines, like the Marvel Adventures ones from the late 2000's, it's not like there was overwhelming demand to make those the flagship titles. Yeah, you could argue maybe they just didn't make these as well as back in the day, but regardless they will follow the sales.

    And older teens and adults really like more mature content...Dark Knight and Watchmen changed everything, it's been that way for decades now. Older teens and adults also like "instant collectibles"...what started with TMNT speculation in the 80's is now annual "events", mostly lackluster rehashes, and never-ending "alternative cover" marketing gimmicks. But they exist because people buy them. Quality story and art? No, got to get a limited run cover and get it graded. Add on the impacts of stuff like the MCU (which has been further devastating to quality comic book story-telling IMO) and no, we're not remotely going to see quality old school super-hero comics.

    But all that said, I don't think the solution is to "go back to the old way" for Marvel and DC. They are more corporate machines now than they've ever been, their glory days as comic book companies are long over, sad as that makes me feel personally. I'm just happy kids, including my own, DO have something comparable and seem to enjoy it as much with stuff like manga. And if you think they aren't buying action figures...let me tell you, all those import Nendoroid figures I also get hit up for all the time...they are heck of a lot more expensive than my old G.I. Joe figures hanging on a peg at Kay Bee when I was a kid! Kids are buying plenty of toys, they will have the same nostalgia market someday we have and I'm sure just as much fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Even now I mostly just collect reprints of the older comics. I am not a big fan of a lot of the newer comics DC and Marvel etc are making. Aside from the boring predictable stories the art is quite bland and generic.
    I do too, and honestly I'm having the time of my life reading extended runs of titles I never had all the issues of, and would be very costly to go back and try to buy the originals. Plus, even when I do buy old DC and Marvel comics, the old newsprint paper doesn't always hold up so well and can be harder on these now older eyes to read. Getting crisp reading copies has been a joy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I'm going to subscribe to DC Universe Infinite when it becomes available.

    https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/coming-soon/
    A friend of mine got the Marvel Unlimited subscription last year, and he's had a blast with it. Was hoping we'd see DC do this as well
    Last edited by Granamyr's Helmet; January 27, 2021 at 11:49am.

  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    I think an overlooked problem is that whenever they happen on an idea that works, comic companies tend to try and mimic that idea over and over again hoping for lightning to strike twice. Often without really getting what made the idea work in the first place and at times even damaging the original idea.

    It's pretty clear that all the more diversity centric characters that Marvel introduced in the 2010's was an attempt to repeat the success of Kamala Khan/Ms Marvel. It's also not surprising that Kamala is the only one of those characters that people actualy like.

  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior
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    I think as comic fan I get annoyed at the moment by the fact that I feel every story arc is an attempt to create something that could be used as a movie at some point. Especially with titles like the x-men. When marvel didnít own the film rights the x-men they scaled them right back in the universe. When they got them back the invented and reinvented continuously. And anyone who doesnít really know the comic of the infinity saga was very different and featured a company wide crossover not just the avengers and guardians

  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan1980 View Post
    I think as comic fan I get annoyed at the moment by the fact that I feel every story arc is an attempt to create something that could be used as a movie at some point. Especially with titles like the x-men. When marvel didn’t own the film rights the x-men they scaled them right back in the universe. When they got them back the invented and reinvented continuously. And anyone who doesn’t really know the comic of the infinity saga was very different and featured a company wide crossover not just the avengers and guardians
    To be fair the Infinity Saga was pretty much a company wider crossover in the MCU to, It pretty much featured every MCU character who had appeared. The actual Infinity gauntlet storyline was a single miniseries, were virtually none of the main Marvel characters were relevant. At the end of the day the MCU is it's own thing, it might take inspiration from the comics, but it has never been a direct adaptation of them.

    In regards to trying to make ideas that could be used in movies. That's kind of a wasted effort since each idea will likely only have it's base elements make it to the MCU. For example, MCU X-Men will likely going with the classic X-mansion set up, over the current the X-Men have their own country storyline from the comics.

    There is this idea that Disney meddling is to blame, but these problems were present before Disney bought Marvel. In fact I would say it's the other way around and that Disney are too hands off with the comics, they bought Marvel for the MCU and left the comics in the corner to rot.
    Last edited by A Dalek; January 27, 2021 at 03:52pm.

  11. #36
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    I'm going to go ahead and shamefully address another major issue:

    I read all the comics for free. There's websites with almost everything and anything you can think of. It's constantly getting all the new issues and you can go back and read all the old classics.

    For free. I don't feel bad about it until this thread reminds me there may not be anymore comics one day. So throw your rotten fruits and vegetables, I deserve it.

    But it's definitely a problem when it's super easy to access comics at no cost.
    "To a great mind, nothing is little."

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior Durendal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and shamefully address another major issue:

    I read all the comics for free. There's websites with almost everything and anything you can think of. It's constantly getting all the new issues and you can go back and read all the old classics.

    For free. I don't feel bad about it until this thread reminds me there may not be anymore comics one day. So throw your rotten fruits and vegetables, I deserve it.

    But it's definitely a problem when it's super easy to access comics at no cost.
    Same situation as music, yet there's more music being written and recorded than ever before.

  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior Amentep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granamyr's Helmet View Post
    I think a lot of discussion here is about making print based American super-hero comics that are more kid friendly versus the state of the comic book industry overall.
    To be fair, the direct market - which is propped up by superhero fare from Marvel and DC - is the one that is (seemingly) failing.

    Other markets are still selling - look at Raina Telgemeier, for example in the bookstore market. There's a reason DC and Marvel both have been making strides in that market.

  14. #39
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durendal View Post
    Same situation as music, yet there's more music being written and recorded than ever before.
    Hmmm maybe... but I guess, looking at the comparison between the two:

    Comics are to Music as MCU movies are to concerts?

    So the music industry isn't really suffering but are music stores and "CD" sales OK?


    MY cheap self listens to most of my music for free but even I will find an artist or particular album I really like and purchase it.
    "To a great mind, nothing is little."

  15. #40
    +2 Against Harpies Sword2Blanket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and shamefully address another major issue:

    I read all the comics for free. There's websites with almost everything and anything you can think of. It's constantly getting all the new issues and you can go back and read all the old classics.

    For free. I don't feel bad about it until this thread reminds me there may not be anymore comics one day. So throw your rotten fruits and vegetables, I deserve it.

    But it's definitely a problem when it's super easy to access comics at no cost.
    /rottentomato Dice

    BOO! HISS!



    Yeah, it's definitely a problem. Especially when there's no-goodniks like Dice running around! (kidding)

    If I were to, hypothetically of course, engage in such an activity, I would probably only read stuff I was going to eventually buy in a collected edition, or a series I was considering buying, or a comic that, for all intent and purposes, would be impossible for me to buy in any retail sense (like say, Vol. 4 of Mirage TMNT, for instance). I think if I was ever going to comic binge digitally, I would have to buy into a service. But that's just me though. I'm not a monster. *cough*Dice*cough*

    On the flip side, though, I know this one guy who we'll call Sword2Berserk that has probably spent hundreds of dollars on a certain property's merchandise over the years (including the deluxe hardcovers of the manga) because he was initially able to read the manga for free online. And while I'm sure those sorts of outcomes fall far short of offsetting the negative repercussions of such a paradigm, at least it's a tiny, tiny silver lining.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior Granamyr's Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amentep View Post
    To be fair, the direct market - which is propped up by superhero fare from Marvel and DC - is the one that is (seemingly) failing.

    Other markets are still selling - look at Raina Telgemeier, for example in the bookstore market. There's a reason DC and Marvel both have been making strides in that market.
    I think that's a great point. I was focused on the example of manga versus Marvel/DC super-hero comics, but there's definitely other content in play here like the example you gave.

    And while the bookstore market is also continuing to trend heavily digital in terms of where people "physically shop", unlike purchasing print comics from an online new comics seller, it gets the much broader "traffic" of a traditional bookstore/market, regardless of whether you choose an electronic copy of the media or get a print copy delivered.

    When I think of it like that, ironically, it kind of IS bringing back some aspects of the newsstand model that got more visibility to parents and younger readers.

  17. #42
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    If I were to, hypothetically of course, engage in such an activity, I would probably only read stuff I was going to eventually buy in a collected edition, or a series I was considering buying, or a comic that, for all intent and purposes, would be impossible for me to buy in any retail sense (like say, Vol. 4 of Mirage TMNT, for instance). I think if I was ever going to comic binge digitally, I would have to buy into a service. But that's just me though. I'm not a monster. *cough*Dice*cough*

    On the flip side, though, I know this one guy who we'll call Sword2Berserk that has probably spent hundreds of dollars on a certain property's merchandise over the years (including the deluxe hardcovers of the manga) because he was initially able to read the manga for free online. And while I'm sure those sorts of outcomes fall far short of offsetting the negative repercussions of such a paradigm, at least it's a tiny, tiny silver lining.
    I'll say this...if the free version was shut down and not available, I'd very much consider purchasing a virtual subscription. But for now I'll probably continue to be a creep
    "To a great mind, nothing is little."

  18. #43
    Heroic Warrior Granamyr's Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Hmmm maybe... but I guess, looking at the comparison between the two:

    Comics are to Music as MCU movies are to concerts?

    So the music industry isn't really suffering but are music stores and "CD" sales OK?


    MY cheap self listens to most of my music for free but even I will find an artist or particular album I really like and purchase it.
    The music industry is in horrible shape and has been for many years. There's no direct money in releasing albums for many artists anymore. Even when they do release new music, whether streaming a song or actually putting a full album out, they have to tour like crazy and sell merch just to get by. The days of getting paid from album sales directly are long over.

    And because everyone has been forced into that situation, the opportunities to tour has everyone competing for the same venues. And they certainly aren't making a living on the tiny amount they might get from say Spotify. As a musician myself I know a LOT of pro artists in this situation, it's very bleak.

    Yes, it's easier by far for more people to write and release music than ever before since you can record at home digitally on a small budget and put it out there on all kinds of streaming...but the old model of being able to move units of albums and see a profit, those days are long gone. It's never been harder to "make it" as a musician, not that it was easy before.

  19. #44
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granamyr's Helmet View Post
    The music industry is in horrible shape and has been for many years. There's no direct money in releasing albums for many artists anymore. Even when they do release new music, whether streaming a song or actually putting a full album out, they have to tour like crazy and sell merch just to get by. The days of getting paid from album sales directly are long over.

    And because everyone has been forced into that situation, the opportunities to tour has everyone competing for the same venues. And they certainly aren't making a living on the tiny amount they might get from say Spotify. As a musician myself I know a LOT of pro artists in this situation, it's very bleak.

    Yes, it's easier by far for more people to write and release music than ever before since you can record at home digitally on a small budget and put it out there on all kinds of streaming...but the old model of being able to move units of albums and see a profit, those days are long gone. It's never been harder to "make it" as a musician, not that it was easy before.
    I would do anything to help support my favourite musicians which is why I attend as many online shows as I can and join fan clubs like Suzy Bogguss Inner Circle (through monthly subscription), as well as Luba Mason's, Beth Nielsen Chapman's and Gretchen Peters recent Zoom shows, all of which helps make money for the artist in question, they enjoy the interaction as do the fans and they recoup the money they need to keep creating top quality music.

    Kathy Valentine recently released her memoirs All I Ever Wanted which allowed her to also create a soundtrack CD for the book with its sales.

    The Go-Go's new single Club Zero was funded through the release of their documentary DVD and filmed in each member's home studio. They did the same with a new video for We Got The Beat. Both were masterfully done with Belinda Carlisle's vocals, Charlotte Caffey's and Jane Wiedlin's guitar parts, Gina Schock's drumming and Kathy Valentine's bass playing all filmed separately and edited togther as a seemingly seamless whole.

  20. #45
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    With this being a comic book thread and, as most of us know, your being a huge fan of many female music/performer groups, and with many of those groups having a large audience of young teens and adolescents, do you think it might make sense to suggest to some of those groups that you chat with that they start comic book lines featuring their groups? It could generate significant revenues, not to mention expanding their fan base. Lots of cross marketing opportunities there. FYI, one of my close associates is the owner and publisher of comic book company that publishes 'edgy' comic books. I can put you or the groups in touch with him if you and they think the idea of feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I would do anything to help support my favourite musicians which is why I attend as many online shows as I can and join fan clubs like Suzy Bogguss Inner Circle (through monthly subscription), as well as Luba Mason's, Beth Nielsen Chapman's and Gretchen Peters recent Zoom shows, all of which helps make money for the artist in question, they enjoy the interaction as do the fans and they recoup the money they need to keep creating top quality music.

    Kathy Valentine recently released her memoirs All I Ever Wanted which allowed her to also create a soundtrack CD for the book with its sales.

    The Go-Go's new single Club Zero was funded through the release of their documentary DVD and filmed in each member's home studio. They did the same with a new video for We Got The Beat. Both were masterfully done with Belinda Carlisle's vocals, Charlotte Caffey's and Jane Wiedlin's guitar parts, Gina Schock's drumming and Kathy Valentine's bass playing all filmed separately and edited togther as a seemingly seamless whole.

  21. #46
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granamyr's Helmet View Post
    The music industry is in horrible shape and has been for many years. There's no direct money in releasing albums for many artists anymore. Even when they do release new music, whether streaming a song or actually putting a full album out, they have to tour like crazy and sell merch just to get by. The days of getting paid from album sales directly are long over.

    And because everyone has been forced into that situation, the opportunities to tour has everyone competing for the same venues. And they certainly aren't making a living on the tiny amount they might get from say Spotify. As a musician myself I know a LOT of pro artists in this situation, it's very bleak.

    Yes, it's easier by far for more people to write and release music than ever before since you can record at home digitally on a small budget and put it out there on all kinds of streaming...but the old model of being able to move units of albums and see a profit, those days are long gone. It's never been harder to "make it" as a musician, not that it was easy before.
    How effective are the online concerts for the artists? With Marco leaving Nightwish and stating music industry issues as part of the reason I was curious how much the bands were making off the concerts.

    It's not easy for me to get to concerts for bands or I would do it more often as I am quite aware that most artists aren't making anything off their album sales. But before I do anything like an online concert (which luckily I know many you can watch at your own time) I want to make sure the band is getting most of the money of these ventures.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

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  22. #47
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    With this being a comic book thread and, as most of us know, your being a huge fan of many female music/performer groups, and with many of those groups having a large audience of young teens and adolescents, do you think it might make sense to suggest to some of those groups that you chat with that they start comic book lines featuring their groups? It could generate significant revenues, not to mention expanding their fan base. Lots of cross marketing opportunities there. FYI, one of my close associates is the owner and publisher of comic book company that publishes 'edgy' comic books. I can put you or the groups in touch with him if you and they think the idea of feasible.
    Actually, that's a very good idea Jack. Thank You. There was a fan-made (and band-sanctioned) comic about The Bangles a few years back and Jane Wiedlin had a small but fairly successful run with a comic about her titled Lady Robotika. Plus Jane is affiliated with the Scooby Doo universe through her appearances as one of The Hex Girls who may be getting a spin-off series. With The Go-Go's recent resurge in popularity again, this would be amazing.

  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    With this being a comic book thread and, as most of us know, your being a huge fan of many female music/performer groups, and with many of those groups having a large audience of young teens and adolescents, do you think it might make sense to suggest to some of those groups that you chat with that they start comic book lines featuring their groups? It could generate significant revenues, not to mention expanding their fan base. Lots of cross marketing opportunities there. FYI, one of my close associates is the owner and publisher of comic book company that publishes 'edgy' comic books. I can put you or the groups in touch with him if you and they think the idea of feasible.
    There is one company at least that does stuff based on celebrities and other things. Now some of those are literally just their wikipedia page with some art attached to it. Others have been around certain bands such as Kiss, Babymetal, Within Temptation did a tie-in comic, currently Lindsey stirling is even doing a comic attached to the story of her last album (side note quite costly for little content which I doubt is on Stirling and more on the RC).

    Many times those have sold out in physical copies but how big of a run was made and various other factors come into play.

    Also many of the more recent attempts to cater comics to younger demographics, where placed in comic book stores or in magazine racks so kids probably weren't aware they were there. Issues attached to cereal brands were probably bought out by adults, and the way they basically divided up a single issue into multiple parts meant you needed all mini issues to read the story. But again as was said they are competing with manga which uses more regular book paper, isn't colored in making the digests more cost efficient for young readers. I never got quite as into Transformers as a kid because I could get two 'He-man' or three G.I. Joes for the cost of a single Transformer, and I know I wasn't the only kid that was being that pragmatic about my 5 bucks a month cash flow.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  24. #49
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Interesting information. I'm thinking that rather than traditional comic book stores, the kind of comic book I'm talking about could be directly marketed to groups' fan bases through the musical groups' fan clubs. Putting it out on fan webpages and during chats like Mikey attends would reach an eager audience.

    My associate also publishes graphic novels, which could be an additional way to go. It's surely niche marketing, which is why a small, independent publisher like my associate might be the way to go. But I'd think most people who are fans of certain groups would be interested and that could translate to considerable ongoing revenues.

    It was just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    There is one company at least that does stuff based on celebrities and other things. Now some of those are literally just their wikipedia page with some art attached to it. Others have been around certain bands such as Kiss, Babymetal, Within Temptation did a tie-in comic, currently Lindsey stirling is even doing a comic attached to the story of her last album (side note quite costly for little content which I doubt is on Stirling and more on the RC).

    Many times those have sold out in physical copies but how big of a run was made and various other factors come into play.

    Also many of the more recent attempts to cater comics to younger demographics, where placed in comic book stores or in magazine racks so kids probably weren't aware they were there. Issues attached to cereal brands were probably bought out by adults, and the way they basically divided up a single issue into multiple parts meant you needed all mini issues to read the story. But again as was said they are competing with manga which uses more regular book paper, isn't colored in making the digests more cost efficient for young readers. I never got quite as into Transformers as a kid because I could get two 'He-man' or three G.I. Joes for the cost of a single Transformer, and I know I wasn't the only kid that was being that pragmatic about my 5 bucks a month cash flow.

  25. #50
    Heroic Warrior Granamyr's Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    How effective are the online concerts for the artists? With Marco leaving Nightwish and stating music industry issues as part of the reason I was curious how much the bands were making off the concerts.

    It's not easy for me to get to concerts for bands or I would do it more often as I am quite aware that most artists aren't making anything off their album sales. But before I do anything like an online concert (which luckily I know many you can watch at your own time) I want to make sure the band is getting most of the money of these ventures.
    That's a good question, I saw the news on Marco (which I was very sorry to hear) a couple of weeks ago on Blabbermouth and read his comments as well and he definitely had some hard feelings on how the streaming model actually works. In truth, I don't know how effective the online concerts are. I've been trying to follow that this last year, and sometimes I hear things that suggest it's really taking off and giving new life to the industry, then you hear things like what he wrote and how much really gets back to the artists. I agree though, I want to help support the bands themselves.

    I know we're delving into areas outside the original topic, but really cool seeing such support from folks on keeping artists going. Seems like a really good community here

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