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Thread: All female Pirates of the Caribbean reboot coming

  1. #26
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    2016 Ghostbusters 2:I'm on a boat

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    Heroic Warrior HarryCanyon's Avatar
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    The thing is that Birds of Prey was a surprisingly enjoyable film i thought was an improvement on Suicide Squad and one of my fave films of 2020 as the characters (except for that annoying tween thief whom just got on my nerves) were likable and had personality and weren't doing agenda crap because they were already established as a female team in the comics since the beginning.

    This is just cashing in on an established IP and having an all women thing like Ghostbusters and Oceans 11 is a halfassed lazy moneygrab attempt to be "progressive", why not just find some already established female IP like Wonder Woman or Birds of Prey or do something that is it's own thing like Alien and Aliens, Taarna Kill Bill and something like that? but please have likable characters who's actions speak louder than words.

    Stuff like Terminator 6 did it all wrong with the speak with words than action and unlikable characters plus turning Sarah into an unlikable shell of her former self as she was likable in 1 and 2 just like how Alien 3 made Ripley unlikable. Plus a poor script, bad pacing, no exciting action, no likable characters and all, i'm glad it bombed as that franchise needed to be terminator and let's pretend it ended at T2.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    The thing is that Birds of Prey was a surprisingly enjoyable film i thought was an improvement on Suicide Squad and one of my fave films of 2020 as the characters (except for that annoying tween thief whom just got on my nerves) were likable and had personality and weren't doing agenda crap because they were already established as a female team in the comics since the beginning.

    This is just cashing in on an established IP and having an all women thing like Ghostbusters and Oceans 11 is a halfassed lazy moneygrab attempt to be "progressive", why not just find some already established female IP like Wonder Woman or Birds of Prey or do something that is it's own thing like Alien and Aliens, Taarna Kill Bill and something like that? but please have likable characters who's actions speak louder than words.

    Stuff like Terminator 6 did it all wrong with the speak with words than action and unlikable characters plus turning Sarah into an unlikable shell of her former self as she was likable in 1 and 2 just like how Alien 3 made Ripley unlikable. Plus a poor script, bad pacing, no exciting action, no likable characters and all, i'm glad it bombed as that franchise needed to be terminator and let's pretend it ended at T2.
    I think the problem is they are using "all female" and "reboot" in the marketing for the movie which doesn't sit well with fans.
    If it was just "Margot Robbie in POTC spin off" their would be no out rage from fans and no one would care.
    People would probably be a lot more supportive of Robbie in a fun pirate movie.
    When you start using terms like "reboots" and "all female" it just leads to the same opinions of lack of creativity, uninspired, agenda driven like the cinematic abomination that was Ghostbusters 2016.

  4. #29
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    I don't think all-female movies have any more "agendas" than all-male movies, and there are just as many all-female movies and TV shows that are creative and inspiring, like WINX Club, DC Super Hero Girls, Disney Princess & Disney Fairies, and more. My two favourite bands, The Go-Go's and The Bangles are all-female bands comprised of very talented, artistic and skillful women who write their own songs and play their own instruments, who forged a unique name for themselves in rock music history. In short, women can do anything men can do.
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  5. #30
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I don't think all-female movies have any more "agendas" than all-male movies, and there are just as many all-female movies and TV shows that are creative and inspiring, like WINX Club, DC Super Hero Girls, Disney Princess & Disney Fairies, and more. My two favourite bands, The Go-Go's and The Bangles are all-female bands comprised of very talented, artistic and skillful women who write their own songs and play their own instruments, who forged a unique name for themselves in rock music history. In short, women can do anything men can do.
    Can you name any all-male cast movies that left women out purposely where normally women would have been involved?
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  6. #31
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Can you name any all-male cast movies that left women out purposely where normally women would have been involved?
    All I'm saying is that people accuse all-female movies of having an agenda without addressing the fact there must be all-male movies with an equal agenda.
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  7. #32
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    It's a mind set and starting point issue.

    From the viewing audience perspective. When you tell people things from a marketing perspective you are going to get certain responses. You tell them it's going to be the best movie ever, they are going in with high expectations, which are easier to not meet. It's going to be life changing, you are setting an expectation that is very high to meet You give them an idea what the story is about, teasing them with the details you haven't really set an expectation that can't be met. You have set one that is easily met, they then decide if they did or didn't think it was the best ever, if it was life changing or whatever.

    There are many ways to start a story, some are better than others some work better for individuals. In most cases of stories we like, in most cases where stories became huge hits, etc, they all started with a theme (pirates, fairies), a picture (a boat, a hobbit hole), a character (a boy named harry with a funny scar), and the story built itself from their with the guidance of the author.

    when movie/tv producers/writers etc come out and say 'we are making a movie with an all XXXXX cast, and it's going to be great because XXXXX are great,' you are doing the opposite of the first and the second you are making it sound like you forced it.

    Most people here agree, female fronted, movies/tvshows/bands etc there are plenty of examples of good even great ones. But the way they have been presented and formed don't go against either of the above things. Like was just said, if they had said they are making a Pirates of Caribbean movie with Margot Robbie as lead people wouldn't have gotten as upset. Granted that was probably their intent instead of letting it sale on it's own merits they had use two buzz phrases that get people riled up as it draws first negative attention than it has the defenders come in.
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  8. #33
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    All I'm saying is that people accuse all-female movies of having an agenda without addressing the fact there must be all-male movies with an equal agenda.
    With things progressing around us the way they are why wouldn't anyone think this was an agenda driven concept?


    It's like Wyldman just stated, if it wasn't agenda based why call to attention that it's an all-female cast?
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  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    All I'm saying is that people accuse all-female movies of having an agenda without addressing the fact there must be all-male movies with an equal agenda.
    There could be, but without examples it's speculation.

    Some portion of the female fronted movies etc, have almost flat out stated they had an agenda. They smoothed the words up to sound less so but they did.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
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    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

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  10. #35
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    That's the exact attitude that annoys me so much and leads to my statement against misogyny. An all-female movie "has to have an agenda" whereas an all-male movie is just taken for granted.
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

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  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    That's the exact attitude that annoys me so much and leads to my statement against misogyny. An all-female movie "has to have an agenda" whereas an all-male movie is just taken for granted.
    the only agenda the following movies had was to tell a story

    Alien (you can read subtext into things though)
    wonder woman
    silence of the lambs
    thelma and louise
    terminator 1 and 2
    incredibles 2 (one was more about bob)
    a league of their own (the name could be read into though)
    wizard of oz
    frozen
    hunger games
    mulan (yes she still got with a guy though)
    10 things I hate about you
    underworld
    rogue one
    kill bill
    scream

    Most of those movies never explicitly sound like the have an agenda, main character is female(s), have been received well by all genders.

    Biases, American films, not as many persons of color as main character, movies I have actually seen
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

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    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    That's the exact attitude that annoys me so much and leads to my statement against misogyny. An all-female movie "has to have an agenda" whereas an all-male movie is just taken for granted.
    No one is saying all all-female movies have an agenda. What people are saying is that after the likes of Ghostbusters, all-female and reboot just trigger a lot of people.
    Ghostbusters 2016 for example was an agenda driven movie and the director and some of the cast have stated it was...and a lot of the backlash, aside from their comments, was all due to the quality of the movie.
    If you watched Ghostbusters 2016 and the originals and the cartoon shows you would understand why fans were so angry with the movie.
    The same can even be said for Disney's Star Wasr movies and Terminator 6.

    To the best of my knowledge there has never been an all-male driven movie that has insulted the fans, both male and female or said that it was not for females.

    Movies should be for everyone to enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    the only agenda the following movies had was to tell a story

    Alien (you can read subtext into things though)
    wonder woman
    silence of the lambs
    thelma and louise
    terminator 1 and 2
    incredibles 2 (one was more about bob)
    a league of their own (the name could be read into though)
    wizard of oz
    frozen
    hunger games
    mulan (yes she still got with a guy though)
    10 things I hate about you
    underworld
    rogue one
    kill bill
    scream

    Most of those movies never explicitly sound like the have an agenda, main character is female(s), have been received well by all genders.

    Biases, American films, not as many persons of color as main character, movies I have actually seen
    I recently watched "Burning Bright" and "Crawl" which are female leads and very good movies.

  13. #38
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    That's the exact attitude that annoys me so much and leads to my statement against misogyny. An all-female movie "has to have an agenda" whereas an all-male movie is just taken for granted.
    More than likely because movies rarely state "featuring an all-male cast".

    You still haven't listed any comparison movies to support "all-male" movies.
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    I guess I'm going to go against my own advice and wade off into the perpetual mini-Tar Swamp that seems to exist in the Other Forum. I'll try to keep everything relevant to the original topic, Uki.

    First off, there seems to be a ton of projecting and prejudice in this thread.

    Let's start off with the projection.

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    Like was just said, if they had said they are making a Pirates of Caribbean movie with Margot Robbie as lead people wouldn't have gotten as upset. Granted that was probably their intent instead of letting it sale on it's own merits they had use two buzz phrases that get people riled up as it draws first negative attention than it has the defenders come in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    With things progressing around us the way they are why wouldn't anyone think this was an agenda driven concept?


    It's like Wyldman just stated, if it wasn't agenda based why call to attention that it's an all-female cast?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I think the problem is they are using "all female" and "reboot" in the marketing for the movie which doesn't sit well with fans.
    If it was just "Margot Robbie in POTC spin off" their would be no out rage from fans and no one would care.
    People would probably be a lot more supportive of Robbie in a fun pirate movie.
    When you start using terms like "reboots" and "all female" it just leads to the same opinions of lack of creativity, uninspired, agenda driven like the cinematic abomination that was Ghostbusters 2016.

    It's bizarre to me when people decry the "agenda" of others when their own agenda has driven them completely away from reality. All three of these quotes could almost be read as "if [the actual reality of the situation] would have happened, it wouldn't be a big deal, BUT instead they [strawman]".

    There have been two articles linked in this thread. Neither of them had "all female cast" anywhere in the article, much less was that being "called[ed] to attention". One article used the term "female fronted" the other used "female driven". Either of these could simply mean that the movie has Margot Robbie as the main character; that's basically all either article divulged. I looked for other articles and a couple had "all female" in the title of the article, but nowhere in the actual article was there information or a quote from the people behind the movie stating this, much less hyping it as such. Even then, that's the article writer characterizing it a certain way, not the studio. Honestly, it's possible even that was just a liberty taken on assumption. One of those articles sited as its source the article originally linked in this thread, yet there is no such claim made in that article.

    Mark, I think you got this one wrong. The referenced article actually reads more like "Margot Robbie in POTC spin off" than the alternative, and people are, in fact, raging about it. As Dynamo even stated earlier in this thread, this is NOT a reboot. There actually IS going to be a POTC reboot movie, but this isn't it. I'm sure all those who were raging about reboots were just about to go to make a thread about their disdain for THAT movie, too, they just hadn't got around to it yet.

    Is it possible that the movie will end up being 2.5 hours of nothing but over the top girl power where all the heroic women (yay!) kill all the dirty, evil men (boo!)? Sure, it's possible. However, I don't think it's fair or reasonable to assume and project that from articles that basically just read "Margot Robbie is going to be the star of a POTC movie".

    Now let's jump to the prejudice. I don't use the word "prejudice" as some cavalier insult here. Some of the things stated in this thread are about as close as you can get to the dictionary definition of the word: "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience".

    Even while some are pushing their narrative, the cognitive dissonance is on full display. People have to rationalize and justify how their own interest inexplicably don't match the agenda they're supporting. "Well, you see, all THESE female centric stories are excellent stories and high art because I like them, and all THESE female centric stories are just garbage with an agenda."

    Ok....

    A) If one claims that the quality of the story is what separates a good female story from an icky, agenda piece that may give you cooties, then you've already pulled back the curtain and exposed your own hypocrisy. Obviously no one knows what the quality of this story will be, yet people already have disdain for it, ergo your claim is clearly made in bad faith. Again, this is the definition of prejudice.

    B) Even making the claim that media with good story and media with an agenda are mutually exclusive is nonsensical. Since we're on he-man.org and people have actually used it as an example of a female centric brand "done right", let's look at She-Ra. She-Ra was a far more cynical cash-in on a pre-existing brand than this movie is. It absolutely had the agenda of springboarding off of He-man's popularity and essentially just making a female He-man brand that catered to girls. SO WHAT? It was still good. This movie could, hypothetically, be the exact same scenario.

    And finally we have the following line of argument:

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHard View Post
    Why not make an all-new female-lead set of movies instead of gender-swapping an already-established franchise simply due to the fact it has a recognizable name?
    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCanyon View Post
    This is just cashing in on an established IP and having an all women thing like Ghostbusters and Oceans 11 is a halfassed lazy moneygrab attempt to be "progressive", why not just find some already established female IP like Wonder Woman or Birds of Prey or do something that is it's own thing like Alien and Aliens, Taarna Kill Bill and something like that? but please have likable characters who's actions speak louder than words.
    Good lord. So if Disney decides they want to make a "female driven" pirate movie, your assertion is that they shouldn't do it under the most popular and well known pirate branding in the world? And what would be the rationale for that exactly? That's almost like saying Hasbro should immediately stop making Transformers, but start making a totally different line of alien-robots-that-change-into-something-else toys and call them Change O' Bots.

    Everyone in this thread seems to agree that POTC has been on the decline for years. At worse, this movie will be on par with the latter movies. However, by taking the brand in a different direction, it's possible they could breathe new life into it.
    Last edited by Sword2Blanket; July 2, 2020 at 07:23pm.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    My second post also mentions what you said, had some facebook news items on it. None of the headlines read like the TC comments here read, and a peruse of the articles none hint that way either.

    My comments might have played the line on both sides, as some have noted I tend to do elsewhere. TC is ironically do what I mention in my post and probably is nodding his head along with my post that you quoted.

    On the matter of agenda, there is always an agenda in the strictest since of the word, I would say you are leaning on cynism though The baseline agenda of She-ra was to monetize on the females who were into he-man. But Mattel never said She-ra is going to be great because of that agenda. They knew they would have to make a product that people would want to buy into as a product.

    Talk about strawman, I watched Ghostbuster 2016 (whatever year it came out) I was never afraid to get cooties, I expected a sub par comedy that didn't have a fluid story and would be full of sight gags and gross out style humour that is what came out. Heck I have read the IDW comics and even didn't mind their comic versions. I don't like wasting my time though, me and fiance just watched Sandlot and it's sequel, i almost said let's turn off the sequel I can see why I never watched it.

    Also came real close to making another point in regards to a certain religious 'genre' of films and music that do the same thing and get so caught up in their message they make subpar product as I result I often skip out on most of them.

    Also I never said movies that are agenda are all bad, but in another way in my experience they tend to get lost in their message. I believe what Dr. Seuss believe, tell a good story and any morals or message you want to convey should come out of the story naturally.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I meant they are hypocrites with their actions regarding reboots, gender and race swapping etc.

    I should have said it would be nice for them to do something else rather than reboot and remake films they have already made.
    They would only be hypocrites if they were pointing the finger at others for not being inclusive all the while not being inclusive themselves…which isn't at all the case. Disney's extremely inclusive.
    While something new would be fun…Pirates of the Caribbean is their own original property so they can do as much as they want with it. Giving girls more adventure heroes to act out and play as is a good thing.
    Last edited by chuc98; July 2, 2020 at 07:28pm.
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    We all know, given the precedent, that this all-female reboot of an established property will be hugely successful!

  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    They would only be hypocrites if they were pointing the finger at others for not being inclusive all the while not being inclusive themselves…which isn't at all the case. Disney's extremely inclusive.
    While something new would be fun…Pirates of the Caribbean is their own original property so they can do as much as they want with it. Giving girls more adventure heroes to act out and play as is a good thing.
    Disney are only inclusive when it suits them. In Rise of Skywalker they edited out the lesbian kids to appeal to the Chinese market. I could be wrong on this but for some country, possibly China, they also changed The Force Awakens poster to barely feature Finn.

    Giving girls more adventure heroes is great and I hope the films they are in are great.
    All I am saying is that all boys and girls should be able to enjoy these heroes instead of the stars going on Twitter rants saying who the movie is for etc.
    I am a wrestling fan and I think it's great that over the last several years the women wrestlers have become a lot more featured and main evented PPVs and got lots more girls into wrestling. One of the top female stars even dressed like a pirate.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Disney are only inclusive when it suits them. In Rise of Skywalker they edited out the lesbian kids to appeal to the Chinese market. I could be wrong on this but for some country, possibly China, they also changed The Force Awakens poster to barely feature Finn.

    Giving girls more adventure heroes is great and I hope the films they are in are great.
    All I am saying is that all boys and girls should be able to enjoy these heroes instead of the stars going on Twitter rants saying who the movie is for etc.
    I am a wrestling fan and I think it's great that over the last several years the women wrestlers have become a lot more featured and main evented PPVs and got lots more girls into wrestling. One of the top female stars even dressed like a pirate.
    All I can say is I know Disney employees. They've stated that the company goes out of their way to be very inclusive. Experiencing the company first-hand, I can also state that they go out of their way to be inclusive. The company unfortunately can't control what countries require.


    Stars have as much right as anyone else to go on Twitter and voice their opinions, for good or bad.
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    Doesn't change the fact that Disney goes against their own "inclusive" mantra for Chinese money, editing out their "inclusiveness" in films because the Chinese government doesn't approve of or want it.

    How can you actually stand for something, then go against the very thing you supposedly stand for?

    The answer? They don't really stand for it. Money trumps it.

  22. #47
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuc98 View Post
    All I can say is I know Disney employees. They've stated that the company goes out of their way to be very inclusive. Experiencing the company first-hand, I can also state that they go out of their way to be inclusive. The company unfortunately can't control what countries require.


    Stars have as much right as anyone else to go on Twitter and voice their opinions, for good or bad.
    I absolutely agree with everything you've said Chuc!
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  23. #48
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket View Post
    I guess I'm going to go against my own advice and wade off into the perpetual mini-Tar Swamp that seems to exist in the Other Forum. I'll try to keep everything relevant to the original topic, Uki.

    First off, there seems to be a ton of projecting and prejudice in this thread.

    Let's start off with the projection.
    If you look, you'll notice most of my argument centered around a particular poster's comments and not necessarily at this particular movie.

    But as far as the movie is concerned, I would argue that saying "female driven reboot" rather than just saying "reboot" plants the idea that it's an agenda driven film.


    Let's now talk about agendas. And agenda driven movie isn't necessarily a bad thing. If your agenda is to get true stories out to the masses then it would be considered agenda driven but not a bad thing at all. If your film was agenda driven to shed light on something the rest of us are ignorant to, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Having an all female cast may be agenda driven, but that doesn't make it bad. That judgment is left up to the viewer or consumer. Each of us has our own guidelines when it comes to what we think is right and wrong. We won't always agree.

    There are some sore nerves out in the world right now because of the way some of our favorite franchises have been turned into agenda driven films. Some of our favorite characters and stories have suffered for it. So a few people are, as my son says, salty.
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  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    Documentaries are a great example of 'movies' that typically start off with an agenda.

    I do think female lead Ghostbusters in ways did more harm than good. That isn't a defense of the incels as they made the situation much worse. That situation as a whole was toxic brought on by two sides with a lot people caught in the middle, being confronted by the more extreme sides. I would say most people either just liked the movie or just disliked and in both cases for good reasons, the actors are talented the plot and script were good.

    Also I would say it's better to start with a fresh property.
    One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
    One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
    In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
    -Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation

    There are sentences I should just stay a way from. - The Doctor

    Rob Liefeld isn't a comic artist, he's a women's clothing designer. Think about it

  25. #50
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyldman11 View Post
    I do think female lead Ghostbusters in ways did more harm than good. That isn't a defense of the incels as they made the situation much worse. That situation as a whole was toxic brought on by two sides with a lot people caught in the middle, being confronted by the more extreme sides. I would say most people either just liked the movie or just disliked and in both cases for good reasons, the actors are talented the plot and script were good.
    I wouldn't have minded Ghostbusters so much. I'm a big Kristen Wig fan and enjoyed her in it. My only real issue was the fact that all the main male characters were either cowards, over the top idiots, or giant losers.
    "...we can't defeat the most divisive President in modern American history by tearing down anybody who doesn't agree with us 100% of the time," - Pete Buttigieg

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