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Thread: Dungeons & Dragons + other role-playing games! :)

  1. #1
    Master of Arms He-Fan's Avatar
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    Dungeons & Dragons + other role-playing games! :)

    Hi all,

    Just wondering if there are any other fans of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game on here, or indeed any fans of any other RPG's?

    I always wanted to play D&D but never knew any other players - however since the Coronapocalypse, one of the ONLY good things to come out of it for me is playing D&D online with friends via platforms such as Roll20. I have gotten MASSIVELY into it and found it really helpful - not just the games themselves but thinking about the campaigns inbetween sessions and also researching about the whole lore surrounding D&D!

    In a few weeks' time I shall be taking my first steps as a Dungeon Master, escorting four of my friends through a short adventure of my own creation. I'm nervous but also excited, and very much enjoying letting my imagination flow!

    I've also dabbled with some other RPGs, such as the most recent Star Wars one and also looked at the many excellent ones there are for Warhammer. And of course, something I'm very excited about, in the not too distant future we've got the new MOTU RPG game!!

    Take care...
    Part of the "Kidult" craze long before it was a thing! : )

  2. #2
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Hey Friend & Brother Chris

    You have the know-how and expertise, I'll soon have the game (which I won at Power Con) when it arrives in the mail, we'll get together online and share both! I am so looking forward to that!

    Cheers, Mikey
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

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    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Loved the idea of D&D but, like you, could never find anyone to play with. Closest I got was playing HeroQuest and DragonStrike.

    But once tabletop games became more mainstream, I did find myself entering Vampire the Masquerade, which was a lot of fun if you enjoyed things like subterfuge, political intrigue, and such. The card game version was also fun.

    I did manage to pick up the special edition version of Art of Dungeons and Dragons, which even came with the Tomb of Horrors game module.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

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    I started playing D&D when I was in high school in the early 80s. Never really got to play as much as I wanted because it was just as difficult then to get a group together as it is now. Haven't had much of a chance to play in the last 20 years or so but I still like to read through new stuff, third party and homebrew when I get the chance. My friends and I were into a lot of games despite never really getting to play. Villains and Vigilantes (a superhero game with the most difficult character creation system I've ever seen, there was so much math involved in secondary character stats that I wrote a BASIC program to automate that part of it), Champions (another superhero game), Gamma World (post-apocalypse setting that played much like Basic D&D), Boot Hill (wild west setting, again, much like Basic D&D), Shadowrun, Vampire and Traveller. Have the old Marvel, DC and Star Wars games but never really sat down to figure them out. I'm looking forward to the MOTU RPG and the board games as I had been thinking about trying to come up with MOTU rules for D&D but this makes it so much easier...

    For D&D I would recommend finding the original two Ravenloft modules or the campaign box as there was some amazing stuff added to the game through that game world, especially the idea of the "big bad" having a life beyond just sitting on a treasure pile waiting to protect it. I know there's a third-party edition of Ravenloft that was done but I can't speak to the quality.

    ...and, while I'm here and this isn't an RPG recommendation if you want a really fun two-player strategy game get a copy of Awful Green Things from Outer Space. Imagine a strategy game that's classic Trek meets Alien with a twist of Galaxy Quest (long before Galaxy Quest was even a thing). I understand that more recent rule changes have made the newer game not as much fun (though I'm not sure what they mean by that...) so if you can find a used copy or can download a copy of the original rules you'll probably be better off. I wish someone would upgrade the game with plastic pieces and all the bells and whistles that modern tabletop adventure/strategy games have but they'd have to be based on Thom Wham's original artwork.

  5. #5
    Widget ColinChapman's Avatar
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    I started tabletop RPGs back at the age of 11 with red box D&D. Been playing ever since, so about 36 years now. I'm not just a gamer though; I've been involved in writing dozens of RPG books and have had industry nominations too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was introduced to RPGs by my Design & Technology teacher at secondary school (what you call high school in the US). Since I became a teacher myself 17 years ago, I have run after-school RPG clubs on a constant basis, both back in the UK and here in NZ since I emigrated here seven years ago. If there is anything you want to know, just holler. I have introduced a LOT of people to tabletop over the years.

    Off the top of my head (and no doubt forgetting many) I've been involved in official publications for:

    Adventurer Conqueror King
    Faery's Tale Deluxe
    Talislanta
    Shadow of the Demon Lord
    Atomic Highway
    ION Guard (Icons Ed.)
    Iron Kingdoms
    Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea
    Hollow Earth Expedition
    All Flesh Must Be Eaten
    Witchcraft
    Castles & Crusades
    Call of Cthulhu
    Unhallowed Metropolis
    Dark Harvest
    Barbarians of Lemuria
    Warrior, Rogue & Mage
    Hellas: Worlds of Sun and Stone
    Omni System
    Atlantis: The Second Age
    Dragon Warriors
    Starships & Spacemen
    Everywhen
    Far Away Land
    Godlike
    Dungeon Crawl Classics
    a/state
    Mazes & Minotaurs
    Wild Talents
    Tiny Dungeon
    and much more.

  6. #6
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    I have been playing since the early 90's(2e then 3e) but converted to Pathfinder(1e) when that came out haven't played regular D&D since. D&D 4e really made me loose interest and 5e has little about it that I like.

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    Heroic Warrior Iluvart's Avatar
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    I love lite-RPGs for the tabletop. By that I mean board games that have a shallow RPG element, because I do not have enough brain cells left at the end of the day to play a full-on RPG (plus I can never seem to find anyone at home to play board games with).

    So I enjoy games such as HeroQuest, I also have Last Night On Earth, and used to play it fairly often but interest has died down now.

    I also brought out Arkham Horror (2nd edition) one time but as soon as the guests saw the rules and game board they decided to play cards instead.

  8. #8
    Master of Arms He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    So many awesome replies to this thread, wowsers!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    You have the know-how and expertise, I'll soon have the game (which I won at Power Con) when it arrives in the mail, we'll get together online and share both! I am so looking forward to that!
    I'm really looking forward to that too, Mikey - we will make it happen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    But once tabletop games became more mainstream, I did find myself entering Vampire the Masquerade, which was a lot of fun if you enjoyed things like subterfuge, political intrigue, and such. The card game version was also fun.
    One of my best friends used to play Vampire the Masquerade CCG a lot - I keep nagging him to get it out the loft so he & I can play, it sounds excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Abell View Post
    I started playing D&D when I was in high school in the early 80s. Never really got to play as much as I wanted because it was just as difficult then to get a group together as it is now. Haven't had much of a chance to play in the last 20 years or so but I still like to read through new stuff, third party and homebrew when I get the chance. My friends and I were into a lot of games despite never really getting to play. Villains and Vigilantes (a superhero game with the most difficult character creation system I've ever seen, there was so much math involved in secondary character stats that I wrote a BASIC program to automate that part of it), Champions (another superhero game), Gamma World (post-apocalypse setting that played much like Basic D&D), Boot Hill (wild west setting, again, much like Basic D&D), Shadowrun, Vampire and Traveller. Have the old Marvel, DC and Star Wars games but never really sat down to figure them out. I'm looking forward to the MOTU RPG and the board games as I had been thinking about trying to come up with MOTU rules for D&D but this makes it so much easier...
    Those all sound outstanding, I will totally be checking those out! Shadowrun is another game that the friend I mentioned above used to play and he still has the 2nd edition core rulebook - again, I think it looks seriously cool!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Abell View Post
    For D&D I would recommend finding the original two Ravenloft modules or the campaign box as there was some amazing stuff added to the game through that game world, especially the idea of the "big bad" having a life beyond just sitting on a treasure pile waiting to protect it. I know there's a third-party edition of Ravenloft that was done but I can't speak to the quality.
    I will totally check those out. Have they been adapted for 5th edition at all (or indeed they may have originally been 5ed and my newbie-ness is showing! )?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Abell View Post
    ...and, while I'm here and this isn't an RPG recommendation if you want a really fun two-player strategy game get a copy of Awful Green Things from Outer Space. Imagine a strategy game that's classic Trek meets Alien with a twist of Galaxy Quest (long before Galaxy Quest was even a thing). I understand that more recent rule changes have made the newer game not as much fun (though I'm not sure what they mean by that...) so if you can find a used copy or can download a copy of the original rules you'll probably be better off. I wish someone would upgrade the game with plastic pieces and all the bells and whistles that modern tabletop adventure/strategy games have but they'd have to be based on Thom Wham's original artwork.
    Recommend all you like my good friend, I'm a huge fan of tabletop gaming in general! Is this the game you mean? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...gs-outer-space

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinChapman View Post
    I started tabletop RPGs back at the age of 11 with red box D&D. Been playing ever since, so about 36 years now. I'm not just a gamer though; I've been involved in writing dozens of RPG books and have had industry nominations too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was introduced to RPGs by my Design & Technology teacher at secondary school (what you call high school in the US). Since I became a teacher myself 17 years ago, I have run after-school RPG clubs on a constant basis, both back in the UK and here in NZ since I emigrated here seven years ago. If there is anything you want to know, just holler. I have introduced a LOT of people to tabletop over the years.

    Off the top of my head (and no doubt forgetting many) I've been involved in official publications for:

    Adventurer Conqueror King
    Faery's Tale Deluxe
    Talislanta
    Shadow of the Demon Lord
    Atomic Highway
    ION Guard (Icons Ed.)
    Iron Kingdoms
    Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea
    Hollow Earth Expedition
    All Flesh Must Be Eaten
    Witchcraft
    Castles & Crusades
    Call of Cthulhu
    Unhallowed Metropolis
    Dark Harvest
    Barbarians of Lemuria
    Warrior, Rogue & Mage
    Hellas: Worlds of Sun and Stone
    Omni System
    Atlantis: The Second Age
    Dragon Warriors
    Starships & Spacemen
    Everywhen
    Far Away Land
    Godlike
    Dungeon Crawl Classics
    a/state
    Mazes & Minotaurs
    Wild Talents
    Tiny Dungeon
    and much more.
    WOW, it's a MASSIVE pleasure to get to speak to you, my friend! Thanks for replying to this thread. Not gonna lie, I could talk to you for literally hours about your work in the industry and still never get enough of it! I have met & spoken to other game publishers but your CV takes some beating!!

    I'd especially love to know what your involvement was in Call of Cthulhu, as I have several friends who are avid fans of that!

    As a side note, one of the things I've wanted to do for a few years now is get some kind of campaign going that promotes what I consider to be the huge benefits of tabletop gaming for mental health - one of these days I'll have to stop thinking about that and actual do it, haha!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon78 View Post
    I have been playing since the early 90's(2e then 3e) but converted to Pathfinder(1e) when that came out haven't played regular D&D since. D&D 4e really made me loose interest and 5e has little about it that I like.
    Pathfinder does look very cool to be fair. I've only ever played 5e D&D (I'd have played earlier editions if I'd been able to find others who played ), so it's hard for me to compare to previous systems, but I know some of my friends speak poorly of 4e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvart View Post
    I love lite-RPGs for the tabletop. By that I mean board games that have a shallow RPG element, because I do not have enough brain cells left at the end of the day to play a full-on RPG (plus I can never seem to find anyone at home to play board games with).

    So I enjoy games such as HeroQuest, I also have Last Night On Earth, and used to play it fairly often but interest has died down now.

    I also brought out Arkham Horror (2nd edition) one time but as soon as the guests saw the rules and game board they decided to play cards instead.
    You & I totally need to start playing some of these through Tabletop Simulator / Boardgamearena / Tabletopia / webcam - the fact that you are a fan of both tabletop games AND LEGO is too significant to ignore! I have a vague recollection that there's an official app version you can buy of Arkham Horror...possibly maybe...??

    Thanks everyone for all these AMAZING replies - much appreciated!

    Take care...
    Part of the "Kidult" craze long before it was a thing! : )

  9. #9
    Heroic Warrior Bonehead's Avatar
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    Don't play any more but I used to play D&D all the time from the ages of 12 to almost 25. I only quit cause most of my friends who played eventually moved away or others just lost interest. I loved playing Ravenloft and Dark Sun. Those were my "go to's." I could play those for hours. One summer a group of friends and I started a campaign that lasted the whole summer.


    I also got into the Star Wars RPG by West End Games. There was just so much great stuff in that game to help flesh out the SW universe. The books themselves were outstanding and contained a lot of stuff that Lucas himself helped create for the game. I wish I still owned all of those source books. Unfortunately, they were destroyed in a fire. Now they are worth a ton.

  10. #10
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    Chris here...

    So many awesome replies to this thread, wowsers!!



    I'm really looking forward to that too, Mikey - w will make it happen!



    Anytime bro! I get to be Evil-Lyn!
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

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    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    Chris here...

    One of my best friends used to play Vampire the Masquerade CCG a lot - I keep nagging him to get it out the loft so he & I can play, it sounds excellent!

    The game is a lot of fun, but it really shines with 3 or more players when you can invoke its higher mechanics like calling votes, activating favors, and contesting minions. Plus the Predator/Prey combat is more important. All this talk kinda makes me want to dig out my old clan books and take a trip down memory lane myself.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    Those all sound outstanding, I will totally be checking those out! Shadowrun is another game that the friend I mentioned above used to play and he still has the 2nd edition core rulebook - again, I think it looks seriously cool!!



    I will totally check those out. Have they been adapted for 5th edition at all (or indeed they may have originally been 5ed and my newbie-ness is showing! )?



    Recommend all you like my good friend, I'm a huge fan of tabletop gaming in general! Is this the game you mean? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...gs-outer-space
    Ravenloft 1 & 2 were either very late 1E or very early 2E modules with the boxed campaign setting coming out under 2E. Not sure how it happened but a third party company released a revision of Ravenloft for later editions, don't know much about it so I don't know if the original was expanded on or just converted to the newer rules. 3.5E was the last version of the game I have any experience with. That's the edition my ex-girlfriend's group played and I know that they all hated the changes made in 4E. I don't know anything at all about 5E.

    And, yes, that link is the game I was talking about. The original game came in a box with the game board wrapped around it (it was laminated cardboard, sort of like a dry erase surface) with a ton of cardboard tile game pieces. One player takes on the role of the crew of the ship which are all parodies of classic Trek characters and the other player plays as the invading aliens (some full grown, some growing, some eggs). The crew members have a bunch of items with which to attack the aliens but the results of the attacks are different each game. One game a fire extinguisher may kill the aliens, the next game it may cause them to multiply. Last player on the board wins.

    If you're a fan of Clue, I just saw a new version tonight that involves the ghost of Mrs. White who will help out if she's in a good mood. If you have an Amazon Alexa it can be used for the Mrs. White feature but there are optional mechanics included if you don't have or want to use Alexa. Also found that Winning Moves Games has re-issued Clue Master Detective which has four additional characters/suspects, more weapons and a larger mansion.
    Last edited by Jim_Abell; October 27, 2020 at 12:03am.

  13. #13
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Abell View Post
    If you're a fan of Clue, I just saw a new version tonight that involves the ghost of Mrs. White who will help out if she's in a good mood. If you have an Amazon Alexa it can be used for the Mrs. White feature but there are optional mechanics included if you don't have or want to use Alexa. Also found that Winning Moves Games has re-issued Clue Master Detective which has four additional characters/suspects, more weapons and a larger mansion.
    I love Clue/Cluedo, my favourite characters are Miss Scarlett and Mrs Peacock (who I always play as).
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

  14. #14
    Widget ColinChapman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    WOW, it's a MASSIVE pleasure to get to speak to you, my friend! Thanks for replying to this thread. Not gonna lie, I could talk to you for literally hours about your work in the industry and still never get enough of it! I have met & spoken to other game publishers but your CV takes some beating!!

    I'd especially love to know what your involvement was in Call of Cthulhu, as I have several friends who are avid fans of that!

    As a side note, one of the things I've wanted to do for a few years now is get some kind of campaign going that promotes what I consider to be the huge benefits of tabletop gaming for mental health - one of these days I'll have to stop thinking about that and actual do it, haha!
    No worries, mate. I got my start waaayyy back in my uni days when I approached Bill King (one of the creators of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40,000) about an RPG he was creating called Waste World. I'd always been an avid homebrewer, so I popped him some of my material and asked if he had any writing work for me. He said, "Yes, nice work!" and the rest is history. The highlight of my extensive and varied RPG freelancing and writing, however, was creating my own RPG, Atomic Highway (inspired by the original Mad Max flicks with a dash of Fallout), which I put together on a shoestring budget in my summer holiday with the expectation that it might break even. I was literally doing it as a vanity project after years of writing for other companies. And boom, it took off, got nominated for a Best Rules ENnie and Indie RPG Award and did so well it essentially paid for me and my family to emigrate to New Zealand. I sold the rights to it a few years ago to Gallant Knight Games.

    My involvement with Call of Cthulhu was one of my smallest freelance pieces. Because I'm also something of a history buff, I helped out Chaosium with the last edition of Cthulhu by Gaslight (their Victorian period supplement), in particular checking a bunch of details and helping flesh out their period equipment, weapons, etc. to make it all more authentic.

    These days I highly value simpler, lite RPGs. I'm a strict Theatre of the Mind guy (all play in the imagination with no maps, miniatures or anything) with no love of bean counting, so laboriously calculating and recalculating encumbrance, movement rates and ranges, tracking every individual coin, etc. does not appeal. I prefer things to be fast, loose, and cinematic, and running games for kids and my own family has cemented that approach with me.

    While I think D&D5e is okay, it's probably too much fussing for me to bother with for the most part these days. I prefer RPGs like Far Away Land (quirky, gonzo, rules lite science-fantasy), Tiny Dungeon 2e/Tiny Frontiers Revised/Tiny Wasteland (minimalist fantasy/sci-fi/post apoc), Barbarians of the Ruined Earth (a streamlined D&D-based RPG directly inspired by Thundarr the Barbarian), and Paleomythic (very elegant prehistoric human-only fantasy). In terms of RPGs with more involved systems, I veer more narrative now, with Timewatch (basically *the* time travel RPG) and the forthcoming Swords of the Serpentine (Sword & Sorcery inspired by Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser, Moorcock's Elric, and the newer Lies of Locke Lamora).

    kia ora,
    Colin
    Last edited by ColinChapman; October 27, 2020 at 04:49am.

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior Iluvart's Avatar
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    Speaking of RPGs, it just so happens that humblebundle.com has an RPG books bundle out now - https://www.humblebundle.com/books/d...n=tile_index_1

    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    You & I totally need to start playing some of these through Tabletop Simulator / Boardgamearena / Tabletopia / webcam - the fact that you are a fan of both tabletop games AND LEGO is too significant to ignore! I have a vague recollection that there's an official app version you can buy of Arkham Horror...possibly maybe...??
    I seem to recall Steam has a tabletop simulator app ... it's been quite a while since I've logged into Steam or played any games, so can't say for certain.

  16. #16
    Master of Arms He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvart View Post
    I seem to recall Steam has a tabletop simulator app ... it's been quite a while since I've logged into Steam or played any games, so can't say for certain.
    Yep, it sure does - that's the one I was referring to! It's clunky to use at first but once you get the hang of it it's an incredibly useful app - especially this year during lockdown everywhere!

    Take care...
    Part of the "Kidult" craze long before it was a thing! : )

  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior
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    i never really understood the concept of these types of games. but i used to babysit a young lad who was into all the warhammer (i think that's a similar thing) and i must've have spent hours painting the tiny figures you used to play with

  18. #18
    Master of Arms He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Quote Originally Posted by dan1980 View Post
    i never really understood the concept of these types of games. but i used to babysit a young lad who was into all the warhammer (i think that's a similar thing) and i must've have spent hours painting the tiny figures you used to play with
    Well there's an RPG game for Warhammer as well as the tabletop miniatures game, so it definitely counts!

    I must admit in the last 12 months or so I've got hooked on Warhammer as well, especially the painting side. I suck mightily at the painting side, but that doesn't stop me trying!

    Take care...
    Part of the "Kidult" craze long before it was a thing! : )

  19. #19
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Did wind up accidentally collecting an old system when I was into cards. Game called EverWay, which had a set of collectible "vision cards" that helped you build the world you wanted to set as an adventure. The artwork on the cards was some good fantasy stuff and the backs had like five questions about the picture you were supposed to answer in relation to the campaign you wanted to do.

    Sadly the game is now defunct, so trying to find a complete set is a little like pulling teeth.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

  21. #21
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    I must admit in the last 12 months or so I've got hooked on Warhammer as well, especially the painting side. I suck mightily at the painting side, but that doesn't stop me trying!

    Take care...
    Ha! I'm more into old school console RPG's but painting the figures sounds appealing to me as well.
    "A fool always finds a greater fool to admire him."

  22. #22
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Ha, Power Rangers Hyper Force and I immediately think it's a crossover with Super Robot Monkey Team.
    I am Imp's number one fan.

  23. #23
    Master of Arms He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice View Post
    Ha! I'm more into old school console RPG's but painting the figures sounds appealing to me as well.
    It is HUGELY relaxing! And yes I love old school console RPGs too - one I always liked the look of I believe is called Lords of Midnight?

    Take care...
    Part of the "Kidult" craze long before it was a thing! : )

  24. #24
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    It is HUGELY relaxing! And yes I love old school console RPGs too - one I always liked the look of I believe is called Lords of Midnight?

    Take care...
    Completely off topic but back in the day you could find unpainted cast molds (and sometimes wooden) of Christmas type items or figurines. I used to love painting those and found it very relaxing. Plus, I could give away some of my work as Christmas gifts.
    "A fool always finds a greater fool to admire him."

  25. #25
    Catwoman...Hear Me Roar! Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    Chris here...



    It is HUGELY relaxing! And yes I love old school console RPGs too - one I always liked the look of I believe is called Lords of Midnight?

    Take care...
    Before I can play with you, Chris, or get stuck into my writing, I may need a new laptop. The e, f and r buttons seem to be stuck and not working, I have to cut-and-paste letters from other sources and fill in the blanks that way. Talk about time consuming! At least I can still use Netflix, YouTube and Disney Plus.
    "Tell me I am beautiful - it means nothing to me. Tell me I am intellectual - well, I know it already. Tell me I am funny however, and that is the greatest compliment in the world that anyone can give me".

    - Julie Newmar (The Catwoman)

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