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Thread: Spider-Man: No Way Home

  1. #51
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    I'm giddy. This will be a good movie season.
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  2. #52
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Yeah, I do apologize... this one just hit close to home. I was a massive Spidey fan growing up, and seeing Tony Stark play the role of Uncle Ben just killed me.

    I hope they find a way to incorporate the comic origin story into the MCU timeline... I thought that Raimi did a fantastic job of it in the Tobyverse.
    To be fair it's probably more accurate to say Tony Stark plays the part of the Fantastic Four (more specificly the FF in the early Spidey comics). It's easy to forget that Ben wasn't a big part of the early run (he was barely mentioned in the first 30 issues) and the whole idea of him being this mentor figure who instilled morals in Peter was also a much later idea.

    There is apparently going to be a Disney plus show about MCU Spidey's adventures prior to Civil War if you are interested in that.

  3. #53
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    Well that comparison is like insulting my mother, dude!

    Ultimate SM cartoon was awful IMO for execution and who he was paired up with (teenage-ified Heroes for Hire), not for being in a team up at all. Granted I mention Nova, so my bad.

    I don't think it diminishes him, certainly not as much as when he's just the kid surrounded by his elders as in Civil War and Avengers. I doubt we'll see him "on his own" in the MCU either, honestly. The crossovers are a huge part of why he's even in the MCU. I'd rather see him leading peers his own age than tagging along with the grown ups (even in his own movies no less).
    Ultimate Spider-Man was more like Spider-Man was ass cracking jokes and being a kid...More like who he is...

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    To be fair it's probably more accurate to say Tony Stark plays the part of the Fantastic Four (more specificly the FF in the early Spidey comics). It's easy to forget that Ben wasn't a big part of the early run (he was barely mentioned in the first 30 issues) and the whole idea of him being this mentor figure who instilled morals in Peter was also a much later idea.

    There is apparently going to be a Disney plus show about MCU Spidey's adventures prior to Civil War if you are interested in that.
    And to be fair Uncle Ben story has been done to death so why not do something different?

    See people want this and people want that but they couldn't be done because of not having certain characters is what people don't get it was kinda cool that Iron Man was his role model the only thing that I hated about Tony Stark is that he did EVERYTHING and that got a little old that he was the end all be all to ALL of the MCU's tech and other hard to do tasks...

    Ultron idea was stupid especially since you had Hank Pym in the MCU timeline so why not have him create Ultron?? To have Tony do everything was stupid and lazy...

  4. #54
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Ultimate Spider-Man was more like Spider-Man was ass cracking jokes and being a kid...More like who he is...
    Ultimate Spider-Man is hardly the only show to let him do that though, even eager-to-please MCU Peter just made light of Otto’s real name.

    Also Hank Pym sure got even about not inventing MCU Ultron with "What If?" Key to destroying the Avengers in two timelines already!
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  5. #55
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    Ultimate Spider-Man is hardly the only show to let him do that though, even eager-to-please MCU Peter just made light of Otto’s real name.

    Also Hank Pym sure got even about not inventing MCU Ultron with "What If?" Key to destroying the Avengers in two timelines already!
    Yes but Tony was WAY too involved they should have followed more like the books with that aspect....

    And why do you hate the MCU Spider-Man so much???

  6. #56
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Might be a fun enough movie...but I honestly have no interest in nonsense stories about multiverses etc. It's still pretty cool to see a lot of the Spider-Man villains in the trailer.

  7. #57
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    And why do you hate the MCU Spider-Man so much???
    What have I said that's hateful about MCU Spider-Man (let alone "so much")?!!
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  8. #58
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    From the sounds of it, Spiderman is going to have to try to save the villains from Dr. Strange while fighting them off. Seems an odd way to go and I'm hopeful they aren't pulling another fast one. Sadly with the way movie villains tend to die, this was probably the only viable way to make a Sinister Six movie.

    Of course a wild card here is still MCU's Vulture, who didn't exactly part on terrible terms with Spidey.
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  9. #59
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    What have I said that's hateful about MCU Spider-Man (let alone "so much")?!!
    This little jab:


    Ultimate Spider-Man is hardly the only show to let him do that though, even eager-to-please MCU Peter just made light of Otto’s real name.
    "Eager to please" like he's a dog showing off a new trick he can do"

    Sorry Tom Holland is the BEST Live Action version so far...

    I still don't know WHY did they not ask Nicholas Hammond to do a cameo that would be SO cool...They did it with Reb Brown in Captain America The First Avenger so why not Nicholas?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    Might be a fun enough movie...but I honestly have no interest in nonsense stories about multiverses etc. It's still pretty cool to see a lot of the Spider-Man villains in the trailer.
    Nonsense? Almost every genre has done some kind of alternate universe setting...This is going to be cool and it nows says that the Tobey & Garfield Spider-Man are part of the MCU Win Win

  10. #60
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Nonsense? Almost every genre has done some kind of alternate universe setting...This is going to be cool and it nows says that the Tobey & Garfield Spider-Man are part of the MCU Win Win
    And most of them have been terrible. Some are okay but I really don't like multiverse and time travel stories. Ever since Endgame and Loki brought time travel and multiverses into the MCU it has really spoiled it.

  11. #61
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    And most of them have been terrible. Some are okay but I really don't like multiverse and time travel stories. Ever since Endgame and Loki brought time travel and multiverses into the MCU it has really spoiled it.
    True those films were not great (Except for Tobey's Spider-Man 2) but look at what Disney is doing they have the fox x-men films on their site they are not MCU but I take it they could make them an "Alternate" Universe/timeline to appease people that like them or only MCU films....Win Win

  12. #62
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    I have a huge poster of this image in my studio. Hopeful for some kind of nod to the Hammond show.

  13. #63
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcr4 View Post
    I have a huge poster of this image in my studio. Hopeful for some kind of nod to the Hammond show.
    They HAVE to it was the first Marvel TV show they gave nods to Lou & Reb (Which I didn't even know that was Reb Brown sitting next to Stan...)

    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #64
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    And most of them have been terrible. Some are okay but I really don't like multiverse and time travel stories.
    Blunt, but fair.

    I like the IDEA of a Multiverse in theory but in execution it's generally just a cheap way for lazy writers to paint themselves out of a corner without doing any work.

    I mean once it's established that no matter what happens, it can either be undone via time travel OR handwaved away by saying "Well, that happened on Earth-XYZ so it doesn't count Over Here"... there's no stakes anymore, and in turn, WHY do I care? I get that "the joy is in the journey" and everything, but still.

    Marvel stuff isn't my taste so I can only really speak to DC's various attempts at a Multiverse, particularly in print as that's where my expertise lies. There's been a few stories that make great use of the concept... but a TON of terrible ones. I don't think that at least in "recent" times - the last 40 years or so - DC was at its most popular and successful during the period of time in which there was no Multiverse. From 1986 though 2005, sales and public attention went up and down but the high points were the highest they'd ever been. And then after "Infinite Crisis" and 52 when they brought back the Multiverse, they went into a downward spiral they've never recovered from. And yeah, people can try and argue that "print is dead" and that's the real reason, but I don't think so. I think history bears out that most people prefer a tight continuity where Things Matter over a situation where "it's all canon SOMEWHERE", in which case... well, it removes all urgency of stakes. "They're just gonna retcon it anyway."

    I think a Multiverse is a very cool idea IN THEORY that most writers just plain don't use to its correct potential. They mostly just use it to retcon things they don't like without making any attempt to actually fix it. Or take shortcuts. In this case, "We want a Sinister Six movie RIGHT NOW, but we don't want to do any work to establish it, so let's just pluck various characters from other Spider-Man movies since the audience already knows them! Problem solved!"

    And yeah, that's one way to do it. Like... the easiest, most lackadaisical possible way requiring the absolute bare minimum of thought or effort from everyone involved. BUT, you can do it that way, sure. Might turn out great! Just saying, it's like trying to make TMNT exciting by saying "Let's make a FIFTH Ninja Turtle!" You can do that, it's not illegal... but by definition it is THE laziest possible thing you can do and there's just no getting around that.

    ((Shrug)) I don't hate the idea of a Multiverse (or time travel), and in fact some of my favorite stories involve one, the other, or both. But I can totally see why they're anathema to some folks. There's definitely more lousy stories than good ones when it comes to those concepts.
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  15. #65
    Heroic Warrior Bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Tye View Post
    From the sounds of it, Spiderman is going to have to try to save the villains from Dr. Strange while fighting them off.
    I'm hoping that in the end all of these villains somehow stay in the MCU so we can get a S6 movie or even reuse them in other films or franchises. IMO, and it's only IMO, Lizard is really the only one I think is kinda awful.

    Why didn't ASM Rhino make the cut?

  16. #66
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    This little jab:

    "Eager to please" like he's a dog showing off a new trick he can do"

    Sorry Tom Holland is the BEST Live Action version so far...

    I still don't know WHY did they not ask Nicholas Hammond to do a cameo that would be SO cool...They did it with Reb Brown in Captain America The First Avenger so why not Nicholas?
    That wasn't a jab, he *is* eager to please, the writers have even said that's a trait of his that comes in conflict with Dr. Strange in No Way Home. It doesn't make him a dog, he genuinely wants everyone get along. And my point was even given that trait being a big part of him, he still had a childish laugh at Otto's name. Maybe it wasn't the intentional heckling of a villain that other versions would do but its consistent that Peter has that in him. He's very easily my favorite LA version too, so I think you've read into my comment all wrong, Meg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    Why didn't ASM Rhino make the cut?
    I'm hoping they've got a better role for Giamatti in the MCU. Also, he was just wearing a cyber suit, so he's maybe not as deformed as the others.
    Last edited by gbagok; November 19, 2021 at 10:01am.
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  17. #67
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    And most of them have been terrible. Some are okay but I really don't like multiverse and time travel stories. Ever since Endgame and Loki brought time travel and multiverses into the MCU it has really spoiled it.
    I kind of like the Super Robot Wars multiverse.

  18. #68
    Heroic Warrior Mark M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    I kind of like the Super Robot Wars multiverse.
    I am not very familiar with it but if I am not mistaken aren't those basically just video games and a way to include lots different robots from various animes into the game while the video game does not effect any other media of the animes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Blunt, but fair.

    I like the IDEA of a Multiverse in theory but in execution it's generally just a cheap way for lazy writers to paint themselves out of a corner without doing any work.

    I mean once it's established that no matter what happens, it can either be undone via time travel OR handwaved away by saying "Well, that happened on Earth-XYZ so it doesn't count Over Here"... there's no stakes anymore, and in turn, WHY do I care? I get that "the joy is in the journey" and everything, but still.
    I agree with all of this.

    It's just like the end of the first Superman movie. The ending overall completely ruined that movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    True those films were not great (Except for Tobey's Spider-Man 2) but look at what Disney is doing they have the fox x-men films on their site they are not MCU but I take it they could make them an "Alternate" Universe/timeline to appease people that like them or only MCU films....Win Win
    Disney just need to focus on making one good X-Men movie. And cast a Wolvering that's the correct height...or at least digitally alter the actor to the correct height. All of the X-Men movies were terrible...even the Wolverine movies...and Deadpool wasn't great either. Anyone that truly likes the Fox movies surely must be an extremely small minority. No one could really watch any of those movies and say they were good movies.

    The first two Tobey Spider-Man movies are okay...although there is an awful lot crammed into the story of the first movie.

  19. #69
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    And to be fair Uncle Ben story has been done to death so why not do something different?
    Sure... and in the next Batman movie Bruce can just lose his dog instead of his parents. Superman can just vacation from Krypton, instead of it blowing up.

    Oh, Wolverine can ASK to be turned into a killing machine! How about the Fantastic Four get their powers from toxic waste in the N.Y. sewer system?



    Uncle Ben is Peter's ORIGIN STORY. You can change his costume, you can change the actor, you can even change the age and setting... but you CANNOT change his REASON for being who he is.
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  20. #70
    Heroic Warrior Asher Tye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
    I'm hoping that in the end all of these villains somehow stay in the MCU so we can get a S6 movie or even reuse them in other films or franchises. IMO, and it's only IMO, Lizard is really the only one I think is kinda awful.

    Why didn't ASM Rhino make the cut?
    He might have, we just don't see him. I heard Vulture is now confirmed, and I didn't see him anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Sure... and in the next Batman movie Bruce can just lose his dog instead of his parents. Superman can just vacation from Krypton, instead of it blowing up.

    Oh, Wolverine can ASK to be turned into a killing machine! How about the Fantastic Four get their powers from toxic waste in the N.Y. sewer system?



    Uncle Ben is Peter's ORIGIN STORY. You can change his costume, you can change the actor, you can even change the age and setting... but you CANNOT change his REASON for being who he is.
    Careful now, if Michael Bay ever gets a chance to direct, he might take up those ideas.
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  21. #71
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I am not very familiar with it but if I am not mistaken aren't those basically just video games and a way to include lots different robots from various animes into the game while the video game does not effect any other media of the animes?

    .
    Most the games take place in it's own universe (unless explicitly labeled as a sequel to a pre existing game), but there is an established greater lore of to it's multiverse.

    For example there was game series made by the same developers back in the day (and is still ongoing I think called) the Compati Heroes series that mostly focused on Japanese Superheroes (eg Kamen Rider Ultraman ect). Any way one of those games had a villain in it called Euzeth Gozzo, who was manipulating things from behind the scenes (before ultimately being defeated).

    Then in a Super Robot Wars Alpha, Euzeth got recycled as the main villain of that game (although there were no apparent story connections at the time).

    Flash forward a decade later to the Super Robot Wars OG series (a spin off series that featured original characters rather than ones taken from anime) and Euzeth once again turns up. It's ultimately revealed that there is only one Euzeth in the multiverse and he reincarnates in another universe every time he dies and has him explicitly reference the event of those other two games.

    And Namco X Capcom is also officially canon to srw as a part of it's multiverse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Sure... and in the next Batman movie Bruce can just lose his dog instead of his parents. Superman can just vacation from Krypton, instead of it blowing up.

    Oh, Wolverine can ASK to be turned into a killing machine! How about the Fantastic Four get their powers from toxic waste in the N.Y. sewer system?



    Uncle Ben is Peter's ORIGIN STORY. You can change his costume, you can change the actor, you can even change the age and setting... but you CANNOT change his REASON for being who he is.
    To be fair Uncle Ben is kind of a footnote in the original comic. As I said there wasn't really much character to Ben and he wasn't originally written to be the guy who taught Peter about responsibility.

    He was more someone who's death served as a lesson to Peter about the consequences of ones actions. And once that lesson was learn't he was all but forgotten about for the first 30 or so issues.

    It wasn't until later on that they started framing Ben as a grander part of Spidey's mythos.
    Last edited by A Dalek; November 19, 2021 at 02:43pm.

  22. #72
    President of Primus Ornclown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    To be fair
    ??? To be fair to whom?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Dalek View Post
    Uncle Ben is kind of a footnote in the original comic. As I said there wasn't really much character to Ben and he wasn't originally written to be the guy who taught Peter about responsibility.

    He was more someone who's death served as a lesson to Peter about the consequences of ones actions. And once that lesson was learn't he was all but forgotten about for the first 30 or so issues.

    It wasn't until later on that they started framing Ben as a grander part of Spidey's mythos.
    Also know as an origin story.

    I don't know what you expected might happen... did you want Ben to get more pages? Did you think he would come back like Obi-Wan Kenobi and teach Peter more lessons?

    No, his death was the catalyst for everything Peter has come to stand for.

    And, don't forget that Ben left behind a widow who is also pretty important to Peter too.
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  23. #73
    The First Avenger Megalodon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Sure... and in the next Batman movie Bruce can just lose his dog instead of his parents. Superman can just vacation from Krypton, instead of it blowing up.

    Oh, Wolverine can ASK to be turned into a killing machine! How about the Fantastic Four get their powers from toxic waste in the N.Y. sewer system?



    Uncle Ben is Peter's ORIGIN STORY. You can change his costume, you can change the actor, you can even change the age and setting... but you CANNOT change his REASON for being who he is.
    WOW! your really sarcastic lately....You missed the point of having it done over & over but don't you think that it was done this way for a reason? Yea having Uncle Ben show up in Civil War get killed Tony Shows up and tells a still grieving Peter Parker that he has to go to Germany and fight Captain America while he hits on a widowed Aunt May.... Yea that will work......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    I am not very familiar with it but if I am not mistaken aren't those basically just video games and a way to include lots different robots from various animes into the game while the video game does not effect any other media of the animes?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I agree with all of this.

    It's just like the end of the first Superman movie. The ending overall completely ruined that movie.

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    Disney just need to focus on making one good X-Men movie. And cast a Wolvering that's the correct height...or at least digitally alter the actor to the correct height. All of the X-Men movies were terrible...even the Wolverine movies...and Deadpool wasn't great either. Anyone that truly likes the Fox movies surely must be an extremely small minority. No one could really watch any of those movies and say they were good movies.

    The first two Tobey Spider-Man movies are okay...although there is an awful lot crammed into the story of the first movie.
    You should say IMHO that Deadpool was bad but your in the minority....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    That wasn't a jab, he *is* eager to please, the writers have even said that's a trait of his that comes in conflict with Dr. Strange in No Way Home. It doesn't make him a dog, he genuinely wants everyone get along. And my point was even given that trait being a big part of him, he still had a childish laugh at Otto's name. Maybe it wasn't the intentional heckling of a villain that other versions would do but its consistent that Peter has that in him. He's very easily my favorite LA version too, so I think you've read into my comment all wrong, Meg.


    I'm hoping they've got a better role for Giamatti in the MCU. Also, he was just wearing a cyber suit, so he's maybe not as deformed as the others.
    Well to me Tom Holland is the best Live Action Spider-Man in alot of his traits Tobey & Andrew were ok but older and it seemed like Sony was changing things to suit what they thought was Spider-Man

    And Rhino can come back BUT not as a Transformer.......

  24. #74
    Heroic Warrior King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    Sure... and in the next Batman movie Bruce can just lose his dog instead of his parents. Superman can just vacation from Krypton, instead of it blowing up.

    Oh, Wolverine can ASK to be turned into a killing machine! How about the Fantastic Four get their powers from toxic waste in the N.Y. sewer system?



    Uncle Ben is Peter's ORIGIN STORY. You can change his costume, you can change the actor, you can even change the age and setting... but you CANNOT change his REASON for being who he is.
    you could have May give peter the talk and die instead of Ben and pretty much have the same story. He just needs to have a 'parent' or loved one die due to his negligence to sell the great power/responsibility idea.
    cogito ergo doleo

  25. #75
    Heroic Warrior A Dalek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    ??? To be fair to whom?



    Also know as an origin story.

    I don't know what you expected might happen... did you want Ben to get more pages? Did you think he would come back like Obi-Wan Kenobi and teach Peter more lessons?

    No, his death was the catalyst for everything Peter has come to stand for.

    And, don't forget that Ben left behind a widow who is also pretty important to Peter too.
    My point is Peter constantly referring to Uncle Ben and blaming himself for Ben's death and such and such. Wasn't a thing until much later on.

    Do you know how many times Ben is mentioned in the 30 issues of Spider-Man? Three.


    Out of those three times, two were just brief recaps of Spidey's origin for new readers (in issue one and the annual respectively) and the third was just a passing mentioned when Peter graduated high school.

    Ben actualy getting referenced was a pretty rare thing in those early days and the role of mentor figures Peter looked up to and aspired to be like was largely taken up by by the other super heroes of the Marvel Universe and the Fantastic Four in particular (a role that fell on Iron Man in the MCU version).

    Peter dwelling on Ben's death a lot didn't come until later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    you could have May give peter the talk and die instead of Ben and pretty much have the same story. He just needs to have a 'parent' or loved one die due to his negligence to sell the great power/responsibility idea.
    The thing is though the talk about power and responsibility never happened in the original story, it was actualy the narration caption on the final panel that gave that quote.

    While the MCU dosn't directly mentioned Ben's death directly, it's made pretty clear in Civil War that it already happened and is the whole reason Peter is out doing his Spider thing.

    "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't... and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you"

    Something I would actualy criticise is that I can't see eager to please MCU Peter being the kind of guy who would have gotten full of himself and used his powers for personal gain that way comic Peter did. Because comic Peter had a massive ship on his shoulder, which is what lead to him letting the crook go in the first place.
    Last edited by A Dalek; November 19, 2021 at 08:03pm.

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