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Thread: Masters of the Universe Revelation Episode 5 Talkback Thread *SPOILERS*

  1. #301
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    I honestly believe that the haters are one of two camps. Either they had legitimate gripes about Revelation not turning out like they expected, and years from now they'll be defending its creative choices just as vehemently as they're suddenly doing now about 200X, or they're members of this clownfish fans, and they'll have forgotten about MOTU in a few days' time.

    Remember when everyone thought the Star Wars prequels were the "worst thing ever"? Now you can't even EXPRESS that opinion online without people lashing out at you.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Metayer View Post
    Thank you for posting this article, it was very good and makes me even more excited for part 2. Chris Wood does sound like he is the biggest MOTU fan of all the voice actors so I am glad he got the role of Adam/ He-Man.
    I think "Orko" is the one with the biggest fan creds, but I think Wood at least for a while showed off little videos of him doing scenes with the toys on his insta stories.

  3. #303
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    There are plenty of things which can be "legitimate gripes" about the show and I've mentioned mine more than once. Nothing is perfect.

    But hearing people talk about this series like it's radioactive trash with zero value whatsoever, all because "Not Enough He-Man" is some of the dirt-worst "criticism" I've ever seen in my life.

    "Legitimate gripes", I have no complaints with. But the ones screaming the loudest are not voicing "legitimate gripes", they're taking one molehill and turning it into Mount feakin' Everest.
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  4. #304
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    Yeah. My only gripes with the show just boil down to "It feels like the plot is rushed and it could have done with a few more episodes before this to establish the status quo we're about to lose, and maybe even some episodes could be added within the ones we got because boy some of them also feel like they're jumping around to plot points just to try and cover everything"

    and even then, I loved the show.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    I think it's a long overdue sign of the times. There has been a significant portion of the population that wants to see men and their power diminished and I get it. In fairness, many -- although not all -- men have been asking for this comeuppance for a long, long time by acting like jerks and unfairly wielding their power.

    Well now the time reckoning has come and women are in ascendency. Imo, I think it's wisest to stop wailing about it, stop moaning and groaning about it and just let women handle things for a couple hundred years -- they certainly can't do worse than men have done -- with men in a benign, benevolent and encouraging advisory position. Frankly, there's waaaaaay too much testosterone in Washington, D.C. and the entertainment industry. I'm the father of a nineteen year old daughter and I hated seeing children's entertainment having such a lack of content with strong women in lead or at least equal roles to act as role models for young female viewers until The Powerpuff Girls and Brave came along.

    I remember taking my daughter to see Brave in the theater. She was nine or ten and watched enthralled, her hands wrapped on the rail. At one point she turned to me and asked, "Daddy, can girls really do that?" I answered, "A girl can do anything a boy can do." For years I drilled her with "What can a girl do?" and she would answer, "Anything a boy can do." And then I'd ask, "What can a woman do?" and she'd answer, "Anything a man can do." On the day a woman piloted the Space Shuttle and commanded the International Space Station, I asked her "What can a woman do" and instead of answering "Anything a man can do" my Zoe simply replied, "Anything." I smiled, but chest bursting with pride, knowing that my job was done and that she was well on the path to becoming the self-assured, confident woman that her President & CEO mother was.

    So I say give women a shot and kudos to them for taking their rightful place in the sun. Good luck to them and sincerest best wishes for their success. I, for one, welcome powerful women, I love working with them and my masculinity is not intimidated by them -- quite the opposite.

    Imo women deserve a couple of decades of being the focus in entertainment and politic and of being the lead heroes. I WANT MORE POWERFUL FEMALES TO SERVE AS ROLE MODELS FOR YOUNG GIRLS. After that time, when parity is hopefully established, things will balance out, the pendulum will swing to center and maybe we'll actually have a level playing field in which people are -- to paraphrase Dr. King -- judged on the content of their character, not their gender or genre identification. I hope my children see that world.

    What on earth are you talking about, there were tons of female centric cartoons in the 80s. The Show you wrote followed one that clocked up nearly 100 episodes.

  6. #306
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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    He-Man and Skeletor sell the brand as the main characters. That official trailer ranked so high because fans believed that He-Man and Skeletor were coming back CORRECTLY and with some actual care put into it. No Cal Arts style. No radical redesigns. It was what you remember but with even better animation and a star studded voice cast. Pretty much, everyone had universal praise (unless you believed the rumors).

    No one is saying that women can't have heroines. The issue is when a secondary character is pushed over the main character. It's like Joxer being the main character during Xena's big comeback. This doesn't mean that the secondary characters can't be great too. Leia can be a Jedi without sidelining Luke. Just like Teela and She-Ra were great and important characters without sidelining He-Man. You can make characters great without sidelining or getting rid of the main hero/heroine.

    Besides, wasn't She-Ra created to be the female led show? Why take over He-Man too?

    Funny how these people who should just go away were strangely the ones that the trailers were marketed towards.
    The trailers were clearly he-man centric. But apparently his fans shouldn't have turned up. Odd.

    Anyway, the real lesson here is if you are going to sideline the main character it's important to have the new lead actually be charismatic and well written. NFTeela was a bloody awful protagonist that couldn't carry the show.

  8. #308
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    After seeing what they did to Teela I think they would have been much better served had they simply made Andra the main character for the first few episodes instead of her. They could have the throne room at the end of Episode 1 play out the same but instead of Teela making the moment all about herself she could have just hung her head, turned and headed toward the door with tears in her eyes as Randor and Marlena grieved.

    Then cut to a few years later and it's just Andra doing mercenary things by herself before coming across Evil Lyn and being pulled into the quest for the Power Sword. Then regardless of whether people loved Andra or not she at least would have been a compartmentalized new character that would have prevented them from tainting an existing icon.

    If people liked her then great, if they didn't like her then no real harm done. I'm thinking back to controversial new characters for other animated series like Hot Rod in Transformers or Falcon in the GI Joe movie. A lot of people hated those characters when they were first introduced but at least they didn't harm anyone's love for the prior characters. Sadly that wasn't the case in Revelations since it's Teela herself that so many people are now disgusted with.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    But hearing people talk about this series like it's radioactive trash with zero value whatsoever, all because "Not Enough He-Man" is some of the dirt-worst "criticism" I've ever seen in my life.
    .
    How is not enough he-man the "dirt-worst criticism you ever seen?"

  10. #310
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battledog View Post
    How is not enough he-man the "dirt-worst criticism you ever seen?"
    Because aside from that one thing there's plenty of things about the show to like and throwing out the baby with the bathwater and declaring "It's ALL trash!" is stupid.

    He-Man is my favorite fictional character aside from Superman but I'm not out here pitching a fit because he's not taking up all of the screen time in this ONE story. Nor was I pitching a fit about the DC Comics when he was benched for half the series so it could be a She-Ra origin story for a little while.

    They're not choices I personally would have made but I like the stories anyway. Oh well. If the ONLY thing a person ever liked or cared about with regard to MOTU was He-Man, that's their prerogative but I find it questionable. He's my favorite character of the franchise, too, but a story isn't garbage just because he's taking a knee for some of it.
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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Because aside from that one thing there's plenty of things about the show to like and throwing out the baby with the bathwater and declaring "It's ALL trash!" is stupid.

    He-Man is my favorite fictional character aside from Superman but I'm not out here pitching a fit because he's not taking up all of the screen time in this ONE story. Nor was I pitching a fit about the DC Comics when he was benched for half the series so it could be a She-Ra origin story for a little while.

    They're not choices I personally would have made but I like the stories anyway. Oh well. If the ONLY thing a person ever liked or cared about with regard to MOTU was He-Man, that's their prerogative but I find it questionable. He's my favorite character of the franchise, too, but a story isn't garbage just because he's taking a knee for some of it.

    OK but you know there are people that are different than you? You not doing something doesn't mean other people will not do it.

  12. #312
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    Just realised the Adam/Teela scenes play even better if you imagine the two are Arnold and Helga

  13. #313
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battledog View Post
    OK but you know there are people that are different than you? You not doing something doesn't mean other people will not do it.
    You asked your question, and I answered it.
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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by benvoliothefirst View Post
    I honestly believe that the haters are one of two camps. Either they had legitimate gripes about Revelation not turning out like they expected, and years from now they'll be defending its creative choices just as vehemently as they're suddenly doing now about 200X, or they're members of this clownfish guy's QANON cult, and they'll have forgotten about MOTU in a few days' time.

    Remember when everyone thought the Star Wars prequels were the "worst thing ever"? Now you can't even EXPRESS that opinion online without people lashing out at you.
    Everything is going to have some type of criticism... because nothing is absolutely perfect.

    Usually, among a fan community, it is constructive criticism with well-explained issues that help others see where the complaints are coming from.

    Unfortunately, that is not the case here... the people who are banging their keyboards to death, repeating the same things that they heard through social media and, sadly, other members, cannot elaborate on their complaints.

    All you hear is "Teela looks dumb." "Randor acted out of place." "He-Man is sidelined!" "Grrrl power..." and, probably my favorite, "The writing is terrible." (A. We have only seen the first half, B. This story is a traditional adventure/dungeon crawler story C. Most components are traditionally accepted tenets of good action/adventure drama...)

    People who are so upset about the Teela situation lost that argument in 1983 when Teela was second only to He-Man in story development and screen time. They are searching, digging, nay, clawing for some kind of reason to justify why they hate this show...

    It's simple: either you cannot accept change for the better e.g., more diversity - no matter how slight, or you don't like Kevin Smith and this is a way of 'getting back at him.'

    Watch the show again without your agenda glasses on... it's good. I promise.
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  15. #315
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    It doesn't even play like Smith had anything to do with it, is the thing. He's just a very convenient scapegoat for people to burn in effigy.

    "No glove, no love" was obviously all Kevin Smith. But there's not even anything in the rest of the show that even comes close to his type of humor OR his writing style.

    I don't honestly think he wrote most of it. I think he "oversaw" and gave notes and left the actual plot writing to others, and he got the "writer" credit more for publicity than anything because he's a big name. That's what I'm choosing to believe until I'm conclusively proven wrong.

    I mean... you have Stinkor... AND it's Jay Mewes... and you don't make ONE fart joke? Yeah, Kevin Smith didn't write this thing. He'd never have such restraint, not even if he were literally being physically restrained.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benvoliothefirst View Post
    I honestly believe that the haters are one of two camps. Either they had legitimate gripes about Revelation not turning out like they expected, and years from now they'll be defending its creative choices just as vehemently as they're suddenly doing now about 200X, or they're members of this clownfish fans, and they'll have forgotten about MOTU in a few days' time.

    Remember when everyone thought the Star Wars prequels were the "worst thing ever"? Now you can't even EXPRESS that opinion online without people lashing out at you.
    Clownfish TV actually has a couple of of host but anyway. Gonna focus on the 2nd point from what I have seen it is outrage is not far off from what happened with SPOP. Before and after the show came out a number of these same influencers (and followers, also not just referring Clownfish) where going on about the "agenda" that the series had, then only caring MOTU again when we got Revelations news. They seem to be winding down at the moment but with that other show and part 2 in the near future, it not be long till the cycle repeats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    It doesn't even play like Smith had anything to do with it, is the thing. He's just a very convenient scapegoat for people to burn in effigy.

    "No glove, no love" was obviously all Kevin Smith. But there's not even anything in the rest of the show that even comes close to his type of humor OR his writing style.

    I don't honestly think he wrote most of it. I think he "oversaw" and gave notes and left the actual plot writing to others, and he got the "writer" credit more for publicity than anything because he's a big name. That's what I'm choosing to believe until I'm conclusively proven wrong.

    I mean... you have Stinkor... AND it's Jay Mewes... and you don't make ONE fart joke? Yeah, Kevin Smith didn't write this thing. He'd never have such restraint, not even if he were literally being physically restrained.
    I haven't seen/read much of his work but I saw Clerks yesterday and I would believe he didn't have that much creative control.
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  17. #317
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I mean, if you've ever read his Batman comics you'd see that he can't even write a "serious" story without cramming it full of lowbrow humor about things like how many O's Batman gave his girlfriend or how he pee'd himself on his first night on the job. The guy just can't help himself.

    Not that I don't appreciate lowbrow humor, or anything. I've been a fan of Smith's in general for over 20 years but I don't like ALL of his stuff and I also don't think his style works for everything. That was one of the first things I said last year when I heard about this show. "Kevin Smith? Really?" I've gone on and on about my misgivings based on his name being attached to this project. I figured there'd be tons of toilet humor and references to his other work, just like every single other thing he's ever done. Like at the very least, I assumed we'd have a new secondary character named "Caitlyn Bree", or something, who was just there for Clerks fans to go "Hah! I got that reference!" since he does that kind of thing all the time.

    Instead, joke's on me, there's one joke that he obviously insisted be in there (which wasn't funny), and otherwise it's like he had nothing to do with it.

    I think he "wrote" it by letting everyone else put it together and then he just approved it. I mean, these things do happen in that business. People get credit all the time for writing or directing things they actually had minimal involvement in just because of marketing and/or legal reasons. I'm sure he had input but I'd also assume it wasn't to the degree most people think it was.

    "Kevin Smith wrote it!" One more "lie" they told about this show in selling it to us.
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  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I mean, if you've ever read his Batman comics you'd see that he can't even write a "serious" story without cramming it full of lowbrow humor about things like how many O's Batman gave his girlfriend or how he pee'd himself on his first night on the job. The guy just can't help himself.

    Not that I don't appreciate lowbrow humor, or anything. I've been a fan of Smith's in general for over 20 years but I don't like ALL of his stuff and I also don't think his style works for everything. That was one of the first things I said last year when I heard about this show. "Kevin Smith? Really?" I've gone on and on about my misgivings based on his name being attached to this project. I figured there'd be tons of toilet humor and references to his other work, just like every single other thing he's ever done. Like at the very least, I assumed we'd have a new secondary character named "Caitlyn Bree", or something, who was just there for Clerks fans to go "Hah! I got that reference!" since he does that kind of thing all the time.

    Instead, joke's on me, there's one joke that he obviously insisted be in there (which wasn't funny), and otherwise it's like he had nothing to do with it.

    I think he "wrote" it by letting everyone else put it together and then he just approved it. I mean, these things do happen in that business. People get credit all the time for writing or directing things they actually had minimal involvement in just because of marketing and/or legal reasons. I'm sure he had input but I'd also assume it wasn't to the degree most people think it was.

    "Kevin Smith wrote it!" One more "lie" they told about this show in selling it to us.
    I definitely agree that they hired him for the name. I said something similar in another thread but I guess they wanted a Hollywood name to be attached so they choose KS likely due to him being known as a huge geek. Mattel could have chosen someone within the animation or comics industry who could have been a better fit but names in that field are not as big, with expectations like Seth MacFarlane, Walt Disney, and Stan Lee.
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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviews2D View Post
    Clownfish TV actually has a couple of of host but anyway. Gonna focus on the 2nd point from what I have seen it is outrage is not far off from what happened with SPOP. Before and after the show came out a number of these same influencers (and followers, also not just referring Clownfish) where going on about the "agenda" that the series had, then only caring MOTU again when we got Revelations news. They seem to be winding down at the moment but with that other show and part 2 in the near future, it not be long till the cycle repeats.
    And, just like Kevin Smith, these narrow-minded, simple youtube influencers raked Noelle Stevenson over the coals - and, for good measure, threw her in front of a bus... it was so disgusting the way some people would talk about her (based on her personal life choices) that I had to leave the SPOP forum for a while...

    I'll completely agree that SPOP is not gonna please everyone... but, the attacks were/are so needlessly brutal.

    I can't imagine the kind of revenue these channels were getting during the first season of Princesses of Power... all of it cashing in on other peoples hate, fear, and loathing.

    They have managed to do the same with MOTU's fanbase... and some of it is trickling into these threads.
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviews2D View Post
    I definitely agree that they hired him for the name. I said something similar in another thread but I guess they wanted a Hollywood name to be attached so they choose KS likely due to him being known as a huge geek. Mattel could have chosen someone within the animation or comics industry who could have been a better fit but names in that field are not as big, with expectations like Seth MacFarlane, Walt Disney, and Stan Lee.
    It was a marketing thing from the jump.

    "Hey! This MOTU thing you guys like is some incredibly niche Nerd Stuff, right? Well GUESS WHAT? We got the Patron Saint of All Nerds himself to oversee it! You know he owns a comic book store, right? He's like SUPER-Geek! How excited are YOU guys right now, huh?"

    That's how Netflix was looking at it. Forgetting completely that the world still hasn't forgiven Kevin Smith for Tusk and Yoga Hosers. Nor should they ever.

    But yeah, I mean... who else were they gonna get? It's not enough to just market a brand, anymore, you need a Big Name to go alongside it; that's almost of equal importance anymore. The person steering the project is almost as important as the project itself.

    Look at some of the things getting the most buzz. People aren't excited for The Suicide Squad, they're specifically excited for JAMES GUNN'S The Suicide Squad. They're not excited for a Ghostbusters revival movie, they're excited about Jason "Son of Ivan" Reitman's Ghostbusters movie, specifically. Put other people's names on the marquee, nobody would care about them. At least not as much.

    So I kind of do empathize with Netflix on this one. Without a "big name" with "geek cred", this show wouldn't even exist. There'd be no MOTU revival at all. But at the same time, Kevin Smith is a lightning rod for controversy on a good day. I'm not sure he was the overall best choice from a PR perspective but I'm also at a loss for who they would have gotten otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicasino View Post
    I have to admit I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, but my expectations were really LOW. Now I can't wait for part 2.
    I rewatched it a day later, and after the excitement of the first episode had worn off, I found a lot of things wrong with it. I'm sad because this was a lost opportunity to bring He-Man back in a proper way. Kevin Smith has said the main character on the following episodes will be Evil Lyn, and I don't like that, I thought there was a small chance of He-Man finally being the main character on this how, I was wrong.

    I don't want to see every male character being an idiot who apologizes to Teela for everything she's mad about. It seems that females on this show need to have the male figure in their lives removed so they can achieve their potential. There are many feminst messages on this show if I may say so, and I don't want this political agenda on a show like this. If you think about it, all male heroes (except for Man At Arms) are in Valhalla, they're part of a dead past, now there are females taking their place and saving the universe.

    They could have made Preternia the past (like it should be), and have Adam trapped in there training with He-Ro or something more interesting like that, but no, they made it heaven. And after Teela sees Adam again, she's mad because of him not telling her his secret (to protect her) instead of feeling happy to see him again and grateful that he gave his life for her (and all of the UNIVERSE).

    Why is Sorceress so stupid on this show? She doesn't know Faker is He-Man, Clawful is Evil Lyn and Spikor is Skeletor until Skeletor reveals himself to her (and then she only realizes Spikor is not the real Spikor, she doesn't even suspect the others aren't who they seem). I expect more from the Sorceress.

    When they're in Valhalla, they put Roboto (who has Duncan's mind, sort of) with He-Ro in the same room, and none of them knows how to forge the sword, but Andra, a woman (who is an enigneer, because women can be engineers too and are as good as men), is the only one in that room who realizes how to forge the sword. Thank God she was there! Those stupid males wouldn't have known what to do if she hadn't been there!
    Also, Teela's fear is that she's too powerful? Really? And maybe I'm reading too much into this, but when Teela is fighting He-Man on episode 4, he says to her "So much power for one being to hold over another. I have the power because you surrender it". Wow, that's a very clear feminist message right there as far as I'm concerned.

    Why on Earth does He-Man STAB Skeletor with his sword? He just loses it after something bad happens? not only he hardly speaks when we see him, but he also seems to be quite short tempered.
    I could go on and on with things I didn't like (like Teela's personality being totally wrong), but I think these are some of the main aspects I disliked about this show.
    Last edited by Epicasino; July 29, 2021 at 09:26am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornclown View Post
    And, just like Kevin Smith, these narrow-minded, simple youtube influencers raked Noelle Stevenson over the coals - and, for good measure, threw her in front of a bus... it was so disgusting the way some people would talk about her (based on her personal life choices) that I had to leave the SPOP forum for a while...

    I'll completely agree that SPOP is not gonna please everyone... but, the attacks were/are so needlessly brutal.

    I can't imagine the kind of revenue these channels were getting during the first season of Princesses of Power... all of it cashing in on other peoples hate, fear, and loathing.

    They have managed to do the same with MOTU's fanbase... and some of it is trickling into these threads.
    ClownfishTV called out She-Ra's marketing problems and they were right. They did the same thing to Revelation. I don't agree with everything they say, but those 2 have some legit criticism even if they're making money out of their rants.

  23. #323
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    I never even heard of these Clownfish people until like two weeks ago and now they're ALL I ever hear about. So weird.

    Did people ever pay attention to them before this? I'm genuinely asking, I don't know. I know literally nothing of them aside from the fact they said from Day One that they'd hate this series and apparently have stuck to that. But before they came out swinging with "This show's gonna suck!" and everyone started using them as "proof" that it would, indeed, suck... I legit never heard of them before.

    I guess I'm asking who they are, what are their previous "accomplishments" of note, that kind of thing.

    Seriously, my only YouTube-watching stuff is like, Wrestling Bios and Sega Lord X and that sort of thing. I'm not in the loop. I just always think it's weird when I go from never hearing of someone to hearing about them constantly, like "How did this happen all of a sudden?"
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  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    they said from Day One that they'd hate this series and apparently have stuck to that. But before they came out swinging with "This show's gonna suck!" and everyone started using them as "proof" that it would, indeed, suck...
    That's not exactly how things went down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    Did people ever pay attention to them before this?
    I was subscribed to them thanks to their entertaining She-Ra rants.

  25. #325
    Heroic Warrior
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki Roxx View Post
    I never even heard of these Clownfish people until like two weeks ago and now they're ALL I ever hear about. So weird.

    Did people ever pay attention to them before this? I'm genuinely asking, I don't know. I know literally nothing of them aside from the fact they said from Day One that they'd hate this series and apparently have stuck to that. But before they came out swinging with "This show's gonna suck!" and everyone started using them as "proof" that it would, indeed, suck... I legit never heard of them before.

    I guess I'm asking who they are, what are their previous "accomplishments" of note, that kind of thing.

    Seriously, my only YouTube-watching stuff is like, Wrestling Bios and Sega Lord X and that sort of thing. I'm not in the loop. I just always think it's weird when I go from never hearing of someone to hearing about them constantly, like "How did this happen all of a sudden?"
    So you never heard of them before two weeks ago yet you knew they were going to hate the show 2 years ago?
    Please.

    They were excited for the show. Got an inside tip which they tweeted saying "if this is true this won't play well", kevin smith went crazy denying everything in a series of tweets.
    A year later the tip proved accurate, it didn't play well as they predicted and kevin smith admitted he threw them under the bus.

    Their "crime" was to report an insider tip that was accurate. Which is basically what their channel does. So why keep badmouthing them? They aren't responsible to the reaction to the show, the writers are.

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