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Thread: Vaccinations for all

  1. #1
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Vaccinations for all

    Yesterday Kim and I had our thirteen year old Max vaccinated against COVID-19. (Kim, I and our two oldest children were vaccinated months ago.) It was not a difficult decision.

    While there were conspiracy and panic sites all over the web, we realized anyone can create a website nowadays. And while the reports of several children tragically dying after having received the vaccine was heartbreaking, we understood that those were, although tragic, one-in-a-million cases.

    The reason why getting Max vaccinated was not a difficult decision for us is that we exhaustively researched vaccination for teenagers on respected sites. Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic are our go-to sites on medical matters. Both enthusiastically endorse vaccination, including vaccination for teens. When we read Mayo Clinic's stating "Research has shown that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 100% effective in preventing the COVID-19 virus in children ages 12 through 15" it was good enough for us.

    Look, I get that it's a very personal decision. But COVID-19 his surging, up 53% nationally this week, with deaths up 23%. Last week, in Los Angeles County alone, there were over 1,000 cases of COVID infection for five straight days.. And the indisputable face is that 100% of those cases were in unvaccinated people.

    Vaccination for all people, including teenagers, is not political issue nor a racial one -- that's why I'm creating this thread here, in the Other forum, rather than in the Tar Swamp. It's a matter of all of our health and safety. For that reason I urge all unvaccinated orgers to get their free vaccinations ASAP and to have their teenagers vaccinated and to urge others to do the same. We can beat this beast, but we need to unite and we need to have a lot more than a 51.7% national vaccination rate.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; July 30, 2021 at 12:01pm.

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior Riddle of Steel's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that we can "beat" it, but we can certainly make it better by being vaccinated, although plenty of people are still getting it despite being vaccinated. One troubling aspect and major turn-off for people though is that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

    Once you go down this road of vaccinations even for just COVID alone, they're going to want to pump you full of booster after booster shots year after year. A lot of people aren't a fan of that. If this was somehow a one shot deal it would be an easier sell, but you aren't going to convince a LARGE % of the population to get on board for this long term with God knows how many dosages. It's DOA in a lot of people's minds and part of me doesn't blame them.

  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior Brasco's Avatar
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    Yea if it’s this high now in the middle of the summer what’s in store for the fall?? I mean I think it’s a personal choice and don’t blame anyone for their decisions. It’s the people that walk around like their you know what doesn’t stink and think it’s fake. I’m not the only one that is ticked off by these people. I hope we can get close to the 70% mark but we have a long way to go
    "There's no back door to heaven just a front door to hell" - DIO RIP

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    Master of Hosting Events! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    I'm not sure that we can "beat" it, but we can certainly make it better by being vaccinated, although plenty of people are still getting it despite being vaccinated. One troubling aspect and major turn-off for people though is that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

    Once you go down this road of vaccinations even for just COVID alone, they're going to want to pump you full of booster after booster shots year after year. A lot of people aren't a fan of that. If this was somehow a one shot deal it would be an easier sell, but you aren't going to convince a LARGE % of the population to get on board for this long term with God knows how many dosages. It's DOA in a lot of people's minds and part of me doesn't blame them.
    I mean, people get a yearly flu shot, how is the concept of getting a booster shot any different?

    I agree, we will most likely not "beat" this thing per say, but hey... Look at Polio. Vaccines and now it's almost unheard of. The fact that vaccinated people are still contracting the disease should really come as no shock as there was always a slight percentage of risk that it could happen - especially with this variant. I'd say the saving grace is that even with this crazy variant running rampant, at the very least, vaccinated people who contract COVID have tolerable symptoms, then get well again and are most assuredly protected against becoming fatally ill.

    -Johnny C

  5. #5
    Heroic Warrior Riddle of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    I mean, people get a yearly flu shot, how is the concept of getting a booster shot any different?

    And.....A LOT of people don't get that either so I'm not sure what you're getting at. The difference here is that no one really cares whether you get the Flu shot or not so we never hear much about it and we go on with life with little change. With this however, it's non-stop, new and much more of a threat to public health, economy ect.

    The concepts between the two have similarities, but also quite stark differences.

  6. #6
    Master of Hosting Events! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    And.....A LOT of people don't get that either so I'm not sure what you're getting at. The difference here is that no one really cares whether you get the Flu shot or not so we never hear much about it and we go on with life with little change. With this however, it's non-stop, new and much more of a threat to public health, economy ect.

    The concepts between the two have similarities, but also quite stark differences.
    I was merely commenting on the fact that you said people would have to get yearly boosters for COVID and that getting the flu shot was no different. I wasn’t getting at anything other than to say that the routine would be identical. You seemed to be suggesting that a booster being “pumped” in was its own thing that people weren’t a fan of. That’s how it read anyway.

    Anyhoo…. A shame that it’s become such a division in people. What can you do? Can’t force people, I suppose. But because of that, we’ll still be dealing with this for a while to come. I keep seeing these awful stories of people in hospitals who are so sick and they ask for the vaccine only to be told that it’s too late.

    Glad to hear you and your family are vaccinated, Jack. May you all be safe and well!

    -Johnny C

  7. #7
    Master of New Adventures!
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    We "beat" and virtually eradicated both polio and smallpox -- both of which were highly contagious -- with a vaccine. Imo there will be an "end in sight" once we've achieved 85% vaccination.

    I get your point regarding boosters, but I think Johnny's rebuttal carries water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    I'm not sure that we can "beat" it, but we can certainly make it better by being vaccinated, although plenty of people are still getting it despite being vaccinated. One troubling aspect and major turn-off for people though is that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

    Once you go down this road of vaccinations even for just COVID alone, they're going to want to pump you full of booster after booster shots year after year. A lot of people aren't a fan of that. If this was somehow a one shot deal it would be an easier sell, but you aren't going to convince a LARGE % of the population to get on board for this long term with God knows how many dosages. It's DOA in a lot of people's minds and part of me doesn't blame them.
    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm literally terrified about what's going to happen when all those school age children, the overwhelming majority unvaccinated, return to school and hang with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brasco View Post
    Yea if it’s this high now in the middle of the summer what’s in store for the fall?? I mean I think it’s a personal choice and don’t blame anyone for their decisions. It’s the people that walk around like their you know what doesn’t stink and think it’s fake. I’m not the only one that is ticked off by these people. I hope we can get close to the 70% mark but we have a long way to go

  8. #8
    Heroic Warrior cyberius704's Avatar
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    As someone who is immunocompromised with several chronic health conditions, this is an important topic to me. I got my vaccine in April and will get the booster whenever it is recommended. And in spite of that, I'm still staying / stuck at home after almost a year and a half, largely because the virus isn't going away because so many are still unvaccinated. It is a personal decision, but to reiterate what Olesker said, please consider getting the vaccine and encourage your family and friends to do so as well.

  9. #9
    Master of New Adventures!
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    My entire family will offer a prayer of protection for you at Mass tomorrow.


    Orgers, cyberius is the 'poster child' for why universal vaccination is necessary. It's not just us as individuals. It's the entire country, the entire world, populated by millions of people who, through no fault of their own, are at significant risk for contracting the virus from the unvaccinated.

    Please, PLEASE, everyone get vaccinated...


    Quote Originally Posted by cyberius704 View Post
    As someone who is immunocompromised with several chronic health conditions, this is an important topic to me. I got my vaccine in April and will get the booster whenever it is recommended. And in spite of that, I'm still staying / stuck at home after almost a year and a half, largely because the virus isn't going away because so many are still unvaccinated. It is a personal decision, but to reiterate what Olesker said, please consider getting the vaccine and encourage your family and friends to do so as well.

  10. #10
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    Yesterday Kim and I had our thirteen year old Max vaccinated against COVID-19. (Kim, I and our two oldest children were vaccinated months ago.) It was not a difficult decision.

    While there were conspiracy and panic sites all over the web, we realized anyone can create a website nowadays. And while the reports of several children tragically dying after having received the vaccine was heartbreaking, we understood that those were, although tragic, one-in-a-million cases.

    The reason why getting Max vaccinated was not a difficult decision for us is that we exhaustively researched vaccination for teenagers on respected sites. Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic are our go-to sites on medical matters. Both enthusiastically endorse vaccination, including vaccination for teens. When we read Mayo Clinic's stating "Research has shown that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 100% effective in preventing the COVID-19 virus in children ages 12 through 15" it was good enough for us.

    Look, I get that it's a very personal decision. But COVID-19 his surging, up 53% nationally this week, with deaths up 23%. Last week, in Los Angeles County alone, there were over 1,000 cases of COVID infection for five straight days.. And the indisputable face is that 100% of those cases were in unvaccinated people.

    Vaccination for all people, including teenagers, is not political issue nor a racial one -- that's why I'm creating this thread here, in the Other forum, rather than in the Tar Swamp. It's a matter of all of our health and safety. For that reason I urge all unvaccinated orgers to get their free vaccinations ASAP and to have their teenagers vaccinated and to urge others to do the same. We can beat this beast, but we need to unite and we need to have a lot more than a 51.7% national vaccination rate.
    First off, I honestly and truly hope your children, spouse, and you have no short or long term consequences from the shots. I have many friends and colleagues who had a rough go initially (especially after the second shot) which I have expressed concern on in terms of the potential uncommon blood clotting and interfered overall immune response issues. Those videos are in the Coronavirus thread if anyone is interested.

    On the topic at hand, I can't think of a more dangerous precedent than mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations for all, if that's what you're getting at. You would essentially be eliminating people's natural rights of owning their own bodies. Be careful what you wish for because then a government would have total authority over your body in the future, from boosters to new trial vaccines to abortion decisions to whatever. This is a huge and dangerous slippery slope.

    Also, who would enforce a mandatory COVID-19 program? The military? Would there be no distinction among people including those who cannot tolerate the shots? This would be wrong on so many levels.

    Meanwhile, "the beast" you're talking about has such an incredibly high recovery rate for the vast majority of people. Supposedly almost 5 million have died of COVID-19 since it started: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ There are 7.9 billion people on planet Earth. This is no threat to the survival of mankind. It's only generally a realistic threat to the very elderly and unhealthy. Taking away people's right of choice to do what they want with their own bodies would be a threat to all of us.

    Good health doesn't come from an experimental shot. It comes from taking care of your body and mind. Having sufficient nutrients, vitamins, exercise, relationships, etc.... It's sad that practicing good health hasn't been priority number #1 since this started. But that wouldn't be too profitable, now would it? https://www.zenopa.com/news/3267/pfi...billion-this-y "2021 revenues were originally placed at $26 bn for sales of the Covid-19 vaccine, but now Pfizer has increased its evaluation by $7.5 bn. The new prediction for the BioNTech-partnered vaccine being $33.5 bn makes this one of the most profitable pharmaceutical products to ever exist."

    Dr. Fauci can't wait to create and patent vaccines for things that don't even exist: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/h...-vaccines.html What could possibly go wrong? Mandatory experimental vaccinations would then make everyone human guinea pigs.

    As for the unvaccinated spreading the virus, which I am not totally buying, but regardless, what does it really matter if you have the supposedly highly effective COVID-19 vaccine for yourself? Let the unvaccinated take the risk. You're supposedly protected from severe effects. It's called self responsibility, and if an unvaccinated person becomes ill, that's their fault, just as it's the fault of someone taking an experimental vaccine voluntarily becoming ill.

    Treating an unvaccinated person (or any person) as a potential bio-weapon is a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

    The best way to get past viruses is having personal good health by taking care of yourself and simply being human and socializing. Herd immunity is reached naturally like it has been for thousands upon thousands of years, and somehow mankind still exists in the highest numbers today. Somehow you survived the 1968 Pandemic and we're glad you did (well, minus New Adventures ). https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...-pandemic.html

    By the way, maybe some people would be more willing to take the vaccine if there was some way to sue vaccine makers if they're injured? However, vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe" and it dates back to a 1986 Supreme Court decision: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf Vaccine makers cannot make vaccines without some potential debilitating or deadly side effects. It's just the nature of the beast. I think this is why all vaccines should be voluntary because the individual is taking the risk.

    Add in that the gene based shots are based on new mRNA technology never used before (and on such a scale) that has no long term data on side effects.

    I recently had a former colleague send me their Pfizer paperwork on the side effects. At the bottom after all the mild side effects it says, "These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials."

    This is still a clinical trial. May 2, 2023 is the expected study completion date for the Pfizer shot for example: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728



    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    One troubling aspect and major turn-off for people though is that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

    Once you go down this road of vaccinations even for just COVID alone, they're going to want to pump you full of booster after booster shots year after year. A lot of people aren't a fan of that. If this was somehow a one shot deal it would be an easier sell, but you aren't going to convince a LARGE % of the population to get on board for this long term with God knows how many dosages. It's DOA in a lot of people's minds and part of me doesn't blame them.
    Some good points here.



    Quote Originally Posted by cyberius704 View Post
    As someone who is immunocompromised with several chronic health conditions, this is an important topic to me. I got my vaccine in April and will get the booster whenever it is recommended. And in spite of that, I'm still staying / stuck at home after almost a year and a half, largely because the virus isn't going away because so many are still unvaccinated. It is a personal decision, but to reiterate what Olesker said, please consider getting the vaccine and encourage your family and friends to do so as well.
    Herd immunity could have been reached naturally over a year ago had the lockdowns not occurred. The immunocompromised like you and my sibling would have been in a much better situation if we had put our resources in allowing those who wanted to self quarantine to do so rather than quarantining everyone including the healthy, and especially children who are barely phased by this virus. So much physical, mental, and economical damage has been done this time around by the insane lockdown strategy in 2020 while life moved fine during recent prior pandemics.

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Riddle of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    I was merely commenting on the fact that you said people would have to get yearly boosters for COVID and that getting the flu shot was no different. I wasn’t getting at anything other than to say that the routine would be identical. You seemed to be suggesting that a booster being “pumped” in was its own thing that people weren’t a fan of. That’s how it read anyway.

    Anyhoo…. A shame that it’s become such a division in people. What can you do? Can’t force people, I suppose. But because of that, we’ll still be dealing with this for a while to come. I keep seeing these awful stories of people in hospitals who are so sick and they ask for the vaccine only to be told that it’s too late.

    Glad to hear you and your family are vaccinated, Jack. May you all be safe and well!

    -Johnny C

    The routine may be similar or identical to how we handle the Flu, but what I'm saying is that the implications of each are/can be much different *At least right now anyway.* AND that only applies to those that vaccinate.

    As I said, no one really cares who gets the Flu vaccine. There's a bunch that get it and a bunch that don't, but it's not something that's going to shut down the economy or have the effects of COVID by not getting it. That's where things differ.

    In all likelihood, if you're against the Flu shot, you're probably against the COVID shot. That's the majority consensus anyway.

    So again, yes the process may be similar or the same, but it only applies for those that get it. Then it's routine. If you don't get, the effects on society are NOT the same. That's the difference between getting the Flu vaccine and COVID vaccine at least on the surface.

    The "pumping in" part only applies to the people that don't vaccinate. You're going to have a VERY hard time convincing people that don't really or all together vaccinate to be a part of something that is expected to be routine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    We "beat" and virtually eradicated both polio and smallpox -- both of which were highly contagious -- with a vaccine. Imo there will be an "end in sight" once we've achieved 85% vaccination.
    Let's say that works. Can you even reach 85% vaccination though? How many thousands of years has some sort of Influenza been around? Some of these things don't leave and you just live with them. The verdict seems to be split on that. Some scientists share your thoughts, while others think that it may be here to stay.

  12. #12
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Thank you for your compassion and empathy, All American. They are greatly appreciated and you have touched my heart.

    As someone who has worked in children's entertainment for over forty years and has three children, children are my life. I care deeply for every child on this planet and I want none to suffer. My heart breaks when I hear of a child who had complications or died as a result of vaccination. But it bleeds all the more when I hear of oh so many children contracting this beast and oh so many more who may contract it. We owe an obligation to our most vulnerable people -- and those who are here on Earth a short time from heaven -- to do all we can to protect them. Imo vaccinations are that path. I pray to God that I am right.

    For the record, and let me be crystal clear, I am not advocating mandatory vaccinations. No one who lives in a free country -- least of all me -- is saying they support mandatory vaccinations, which is grossly draconian. One could make the case that, on a personal level, because I'm seventy-two and I've suffered a TIA mini-stroke and a minor heart attack and am tonight one week out of endarterectomy surgery to remove a carotid artery blockage, all of which, to one degree or another, involved clotting or potential clotting, that I am at increased risk for clotting complications as a result of vaccinations. That said I've done my homework and the odds of my contracting COVID and having serious issues to deal with, including being on a ventilator, are much higher than the risk of vaccination.

    As many have said, it's a personal choice. I've made mine. All science points in the direction that says I have made the right choice, the incredibly small risk of vaccination complication as opposed to the risk of contracting the virus clear to all who follow the science.

    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    First off, I honestly and truly hope your children, spouse, and you have no short or long term consequences from the shots. I have many friends and colleagues who had a rough go initially (especially after the second shot) which I have expressed concern on in terms of the potential uncommon blood clotting and interfered overall immune response issues. Those videos are in the Coronavirus thread if anyone is interested.

    On the topic at hand, I can't think of a more dangerous precedent than mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations for all, if that's what you're getting at. You would essentially be eliminating people's natural rights of owning their own bodies. Be careful what you wish for because then a government would have total authority over your body in the future, from boosters to new trial vaccines to abortion decisions to whatever. This is a huge and dangerous slippery slope.

    Also, who would enforce a mandatory COVID-19 program? The military? Would there be no distinction among people including those who cannot tolerate the shots? This would be wrong on so many levels.

    Meanwhile, "the beast" you're talking about has such an incredibly high recovery rate for the vast majority of people. Supposedly almost 5 million have died of COVID-19 since it started: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ There are 7.9 billion people on planet Earth. This is no threat to the survival of mankind. It's only generally a realistic threat to the very elderly and unhealthy. Taking away people's right of choice to do what they want with their own bodies would be a threat to all of us.

    Good health doesn't come from an experimental shot. It comes from taking care of your body and mind. Having sufficient nutrients, vitamins, exercise, relationships, etc.... It's sad that practicing good health hasn't been priority number #1 since this started. But that wouldn't be too profitable, now would it? https://www.zenopa.com/news/3267/pfi...billion-this-y "2021 revenues were originally placed at $26 bn for sales of the Covid-19 vaccine, but now Pfizer has increased its evaluation by $7.5 bn. The new prediction for the BioNTech-partnered vaccine being $33.5 bn makes this one of the most profitable pharmaceutical products to ever exist."

    Dr. Fauci can't wait to create and patent vaccines for things that don't even exist: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/h...-vaccines.html What could possibly go wrong? Mandatory experimental vaccinations would then make everyone human guinea pigs.

    As for the unvaccinated spreading the virus, which I am not totally buying, but regardless, what does it really matter if you have the supposedly highly effective COVID-19 vaccine for yourself? Let the unvaccinated take the risk. You're supposedly protected from severe effects. It's called self responsibility, and if an unvaccinated person becomes ill, that's their fault, just as it's the fault of someone taking an experimental vaccine voluntarily becoming ill.

    Treating an unvaccinated person (or any person) as a potential bio-weapon is a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

    The best way to get past viruses is having personal good health by taking care of yourself and simply being human and socializing. Herd immunity is reached naturally like it has been for thousands upon thousands of years, and somehow mankind still exists in the highest numbers today. Somehow you survived the 1968 Pandemic and we're glad you did (well, minus New Adventures ). https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...-pandemic.html

    By the way, maybe some people would be more willing to take the vaccine if there was some way to sue vaccine makers if they're injured? However, vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe" and it dates back to a 1986 Supreme Court decision: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf Vaccine makers cannot make vaccines without some potential debilitating or deadly side effects. It's just the nature of the beast. I think this is why all vaccines should be voluntary because the individual is taking the risk.

    Add in that the gene based shots are based on new mRNA technology never used before (and on such a scale) that has no long term data on side effects.

    I recently had a former colleague send me their Pfizer paperwork on the side effects. At the bottom after all the mild side effects it says, "These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials."

    This is still a clinical trial. May 2, 2023 is the expected study completion date for the Pfizer shot for example: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728





    Some good points here.





    Herd immunity could have been reached naturally over a year ago had the lockdowns not occurred. The immunocompromised like you and my sibling would have been in a much better situation if we had put our resources in allowing those who wanted to self quarantine to do so rather than quarantining everyone including the healthy, and especially children who are barely phased by this virus. So much physical, mental, and economical damage has been done this time around by the insane lockdown strategy in 2020 while life moved fine during recent prior pandemics.
    - - - Updated - - -

    85% plus immunization and booster shpts are, imo, the path to eradication or, at least, global health. Can we all agree, at least, that we need to stop the beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel View Post
    The routine may be similar or identical to how we handle the Flu, but what I'm saying is that the implications of each are/can be much different *At least right now anyway.* AND that only applies to those that vaccinate.

    As I said, no one really cares who gets the Flu vaccine. There's a bunch that get it and a bunch that don't, but it's not something that's going to shut down the economy or have the effects of COVID by not getting it. That's where things differ.

    In all likelihood, if you're against the Flu shot, you're probably against the COVID shot. That's the majority consensus anyway.

    So again, yes the process may be similar or the same, but it only applies for those that get it. Then it's routine. If you don't get, the effects on society are NOT the same. That's the difference between getting the Flu vaccine and COVID vaccine at least on the surface.

    The "pumping in" part only applies to the people that don't vaccinate. You're going to have a VERY hard time convincing people that don't really or all together vaccinate to be a part of something that is expected to be routine.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Let's say that works. Can you even reach 85% vaccination though? How many thousands of years has some sort of Influenza been around? Some of these things don't leave and you just live with them. The verdict seems to be split on that. Some scientists share your thoughts, while others think that it may be here to stay.
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; July 31, 2021 at 12:00am.

  13. #13
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    I don't think I could put it any better than The All American, but I do want to reiterate what I think is the most important part of his response. Covid-19 is no more deadly than the yearly flu. Anyone aside from the elderly or those with major pre-existing conditions are not at risk of death from this virus. We need to be asking ourselves why our government is so dead set on making us believe otherwise?

    I would also like to add that the CDC does not have an antibody test for vaccinated people. How can the vaccine manufacturers claim such high efficacy if they are not testing to make sure that your body is producing antibodies in response to the vaccination?

    https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/...ion-fda-safety

    Again, The All American has done his research and I would urge anyone who has questions about the vaccine to message him before making a decision. He is a very intelligent guy and is happy to share his knowledge for the good of others.

  14. #14
    Master of New Adventures!
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    What planet are you from?

    From Johns Hoskins:

    "Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

    The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, the vast majority of people do not yet have immunity to it. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu."

    You and The All American certainly have my prayers...


    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletron2021 View Post
    I don't think I could put it any better than The All American, but I do want to reiterate what I think is the most important part of his response. Covid-19 is no more deadly than the yearly flu. Anyone aside from the elderly or those with major pre-existing conditions are not at risk of death from this virus. We need to be asking ourselves why our government is so dead set on making us believe otherwise?

    I would also like to add that the CDC does not have an antibody test for vaccinated people. How can the vaccine manufacturers claim such high efficacy if they are not testing to make sure that your body is producing antibodies in response to the vaccination?

    https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/...ion-fda-safety

    Again, The All American has done his research and I would urge anyone who has questions about the vaccine to message him before making a decision. He is a very intelligent guy and is happy to share his knowledge for the good of others.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heeeere's Olesker! View Post
    What planet are you from?

    From Johns Hoskins:

    "Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

    The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, the vast majority of people do not yet have immunity to it. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu."

    You and The All American certainly have my prayers...
    The COVID-19 "narrative" is the only thing changing rapidly.

    The problem here is that you have already made your decision and human nature dictates that you will be looking for anything and everything to validate that decision. It would be extremely difficult for me or anyone else to change your mind at this point. Unfortunately, places like John's Hopkins are going to tell you what the government wants them to tell you. The bottom line is that our government is not being honest with us when it comes to Covid-19 and the vaccine. The good news is that many people have taken the vaccine with no major side effects as of yet. I hope this is the case for you and your family.

  16. #16
    Master of Hosting Events! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Jack- you undoubtedly made the right decision. Stay steadfast and true, your family is now better off.

    For all the wonders the internet has afforded us over the years, it has also taken a role as a serious misinformation carrier. For that, I am deeply frustrated and angered. You and I have both made the point about Polio and how it was virtually eradicated back then due to a vaccine. I wish I could go back and see how many people claimed the government was trying to bamboozle them and how many people so stubbornly disagreed with doctors and science when a life saving vaccine stopped a horrible disease that affected so many.

    Conspiracy theories are the true modern day plague. I hope they’re working on a vaccine for that, too.

    -Johnny C

  17. #17
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    Jack- you undoubtedly made the right decision. Stay steadfast and true, your family is now better off.

    For all the wonders the internet has afforded us over the years, it has also taken a role as a serious misinformation carrier. For that, I am deeply frustrated and angered. You and I have both made the point about Polio and how it was virtually eradicated back then due to a vaccine. I wish I could go back and see how many people claimed the government was trying to bamboozle them and how many people so stubbornly disagreed with doctors and science when a life saving vaccine stopped a horrible disease that affected so many.

    Conspiracy theories are the true modern day plague. I hope they’re working on a vaccine for that, too.

    -Johnny C
    First off, polio and cornaviruses are different things. However, a successful polio vaccine took time.

    I suppose you have never heard of the Cutter Incident when a rushed polio vaccine caused lots of harm back in 1955: https://www.boulderweekly.com/opinio...on-warp-speed/

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html Also please take a look at the rest of this CDC page for past vaccine recalls and such.

    Even nowadays, bad vaccines can cause more harm than good like the poor polio vaccine given out in Africa: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...virus-67287290

    The COVID-19 vaccines here were created under Operation Warp Speed and again are new technology with no long term data in which are still in clinical trials. We simply do not know all the details. If someone wants to partake in a rushed vaccine that's their choice. If COVID-19 was a major threat to humanity's survival and especially children, I think a lot more people would happily find it a risk worth taking.

  18. #18
    Master of Hosting Events! JohnnyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    First off, polio and cornaviruses are different things. However, a successful polio vaccine took time.

    I suppose you have never heard of the Cutter Incident when a rushed polio vaccine caused lots of harm back in 1955: https://www.boulderweekly.com/opinio...on-warp-speed/

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html Also please take a look at the rest of this CDC page for past vaccine recalls and such.

    Even nowadays, bad vaccines can cause more harm than good like the poor polio vaccine given out in Africa: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...virus-67287290

    The COVID-19 vaccines here were created under Operation Warp Speed and again are new technology with no long term data in which are still in clinical trials. We simply do not know all the details. If someone wants to partake in a rushed vaccine that's their choice. If COVID-19 was a major threat to humanity's survival and especially children, I think a lot more people would happily find it a risk worth taking.
    I have already crossed this bridge with you in other threads. I do not agree with you and I find your rationale to be misguided at best. That is my view. The science behind the vaccines is there for all to see and the disclaimers (that you cited previously) they put in place regarding not knowing other side effects is the same as is placed on any drug in the American system.

    Regarding the Cutter Incident: I'm wondering if you read that entire article? The reason that incident occured is because they used an unattenuated virus in the vaccine. Well of course that will cause problems. The mRNA technology in the COVID vaccine uses no live virus.

    Additionally, hospitals in high transmission areas are seeing increases in addmission: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...with-covid-19/

    And this article addresses the long term effects concerns that people have: https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item...I6NFY.facebook

    The vaccine and the scientists behind it are to be commended on their work to try and make well the citizens of this country. That said: reply if you must, but know that I am gracefully bowing out of this conversation and I will let science speak for itself, whether folks choose to heed it's advice or not.

    Jack - I fear your good intentions in this posting will be ultimately moved to a more nefarious location, if you catch my drift. May everyone stay healthy and well!

    -Johnny C
    Last edited by JohnnyC; July 31, 2021 at 02:27pm.

  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior horseman1981's Avatar
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    My wife had hers early on…..she works in hospital. I had my second one in may. I had moderna, holy crap that second shot kicked my butt.

    I get a flu shot every year as well. Sometimes that bothers me a bit. I tell myself it’s just my immune system preparing but it still gets me a bit.

    My son is 7, thus can not get one yet.

    The mask mandate seems to be coming back near me. Erie county, just put it back in effect…..which if I had the vaccine I don’t get why I need a mask…nor do I understand wearing a mask that says on the package “will not protect against covid.” But if it keeps someone from having anxiety or makes others wear theirs I guess it’s worth it.

    I take the approach of, I’m smart enough to know, that I’m not smart enough to know. So I defer to the medical experts on this one. Someone has a question on toys, I’ll step in.
    Comedian on the matty forums.

  20. #20
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Fair enough and thank you.


    QUOTE=Skeletron2021;3946456]The COVID-19 "narrative" is the only thing changing rapidly.

    The problem here is that you have already made your decision and human nature dictates that you will be looking for anything and everything to validate that decision. It would be extremely difficult for me or anyone else to change your mind at this point. Unfortunately, places like John's Hopkins are going to tell you what the government wants them to tell you. The bottom line is that our government is not being honest with us when it comes to Covid-19 and the vaccine. The good news is that many people have taken the vaccine with no major side effects as of yet. I hope this is the case for you and your family.[/QUOTE]

    - - - Updated - - -

    It is true that the Polio vaccine took time. But the state of the art and technology were vastly different back then, which is something I hope we can all agree upon. When it came to development of Coronavirus vaccines, all politics aside, Operation Warp Speed worked -- partly because computers have changed everything and reduced the time require to creating many things -- and we have well tested vaccines that are lowering the death counts, mortality from Coronavirus now being 99.7% with the unvaccinated. And for anyone who thinks Johns Hopkins is trying to dupe us, perhaps this article from NPR that quotes the CDC will suffice.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170...e-unvaccinated

    With 50% of Americans vaccinated, by the tens of millions, if people were dropping from the vaccine or growing three heads, the stories would be legion by now. I get long term. It's the short term risk of death, 99.7% endured by the unvaccinated, and the demonstrated long term effects of COVID that concern me. People are quick to point out that there 'may be' long term side effects from the vaccines, but why are they reluctant to acknowledge that there definitely have been long term side effects from COVID, not to mention the effect of death? How do verifiable COVID deaths stack up against deaths from the vaccines? Hmmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by The All American View Post
    First off, polio and cornaviruses are different things. However, a successful polio vaccine took time.

    I suppose you have never heard of the Cutter Incident when a rushed polio vaccine caused lots of harm back in 1955: https://www.boulderweekly.com/opinio...on-warp-speed/

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html Also please take a look at the rest of this CDC page for past vaccine recalls and such.

    Even nowadays, bad vaccines can cause more harm than good like the poor polio vaccine given out in Africa: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...virus-67287290

    The COVID-19 vaccines here were created under Operation Warp Speed and again are new technology with no long term data in which are still in clinical trials. We simply do not know all the details. If someone wants to partake in a rushed vaccine that's their choice. If COVID-19 was a major threat to humanity's survival and especially children, I think a lot more people would happily find it a risk worth taking.
    - - - Updated - - -

    I hope the thread doesn't get moved. I find the debate to be lively, informative, engaging, refreshingly civil and completely apolitical. I may not agree with opinions different from my own, but I 100% respect and will defend the right of others to hold to their beliefs. It's nice to see that we can disagree without being disagreeable. I urge you not to withdraw from the discussion. Your opinion is valuable. While some have disagreed with you and me, I have not seen one single instance when someone posted in an objectionable manner. Quite the opposite, I have found that overwhelmingly those who have disagreed with your and my positions have done so in a respectful manner, wishing the best for our loved ones. Frankly, the only borderline objectionable post came from me to Skeletron when I sarcastically asked what planet he was from, fueled by my concern about childrern. (Not an excuse; just an explanation.) That was over the top and I apologize for it. To his credit, he remained civil.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
    I have already crossed this bridge with you in other threads. I do not agree with you and I find your rationale to be misguided at best. That is my view. The science behind the vaccines is there for all to see and the disclaimers (that you cited previously) they put in place regarding not knowing other side effects is the same as is placed on any drug in the American system.

    Regarding the Cutter Incident: I'm wondering if you read that entire article? The reason that incident occured is because they used an unattenuated virus in the vaccine. Well of course that will cause problems. The mRNA technology in the COVID vaccine uses no live virus.

    Additionally, hospitals in high transmission areas are seeing increases in addmission: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...with-covid-19/

    And this article addresses the long term effects concerns that people have: https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item...I6NFY.facebook

    The vaccine and the scientists behind it are to be commended on their work to try and make well the citizens of this country. That said: reply if you must, but know that I am gracefully bowing out of this conversation and I will let science speak for itself, whether folks choose to heed it's advice or not.

    Jack - I fear your good intentions in this posting will be ultimately moved to a more nefarious location, if you catch my drift. May everyone stay healthy and well!

    -Johnny C
    Last edited by Heeeere's Olesker!; July 31, 2021 at 03:04pm.

  21. #21
    Heroic Dad, Teacher, Nerd Uki's Avatar
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    We were considering merging this thread with the main Covid thread, but everyone seems to be participating in commendable fashion, and the topic has garnered a decent amount of engagement while adhering to the Org Rules. Let’s keep up the good work and respectful discourse here! Steer clear of Tar Swamp material (politics, etc.) and keep keeping civil!
    MOTU Origins Most Wanted: Skeleteen, Prince Keldor, Anti-Eternia Characters, and for the love of the Sorceress and Julie Winston, ODIPHUS!!!

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  22. #22
    Master of New Adventures!
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    Yay us!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    According to CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, “I think we still largely are in a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The vast majority of transmission, the vast majority of severe disease, hospitalization and death is almost exclusively happening among unvaccinated people.”

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior
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    «relationships»

    What good are those if you fight all the time then it becomes a hassle
    Don't you have better thing to do than read this stupid signature

    Tony Clifton : Kaufman was a hack....hack sack pack nack !

  24. #24
    Master of New Adventures!
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    That's why Thanksgiving dinner is only once a year...


    Quote Originally Posted by Wonder Bread He-Man View Post
    «relationships»

    What good are those if you fight all the time then it becomes a hassle

  25. #25
    Court Magician
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    [/QUOTE]Frankly, the only borderline objectionable post came from me to Skeletron when I sarcastically asked what planet he was from, fueled by my concern about childrern. (Not an excuse; just an explanation.) That was over the top and I apologize for it. To his credit, he remained civil. [/QUOTE]

    No apology necessary. I understand how frightening all of this is, and for the record, I am frightened as well. I have lost both my parents in the last 7 years and my only real remaining family that I am close with (aside from my wonderful Wife) is my Sister. She works for the Federal Government and took the vaccine at work when it first became available. I would be devastated if anything happened to her. Rest assured that if I did not firmly believe my concerns about the vaccine, I would not be commenting.

    I'll close out my involvement in this thread with this article. Highly recommended.

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/ban...-of-covid-jabs
    Last edited by Skeletron2021; August 1, 2021 at 01:33am. Reason: Clarity

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