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Thread: Being a fan of anything is so exhausting.

  1. #1
    Pillar of the Community hadley's Avatar
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    Being a fan of anything is so exhausting.

    In theory, itís fun to find other people who are fans of the same stuff you are a fan of, get together, get excited and enthusiastic about the stuff you have in common, and share a good time. Good vibes are contagious and being happy in a group is a lot of fun.

    But thatís just not how it works. People have to convince everyone around them that the thing that they (ostensibly) are a fan of is Bad, Actually.

    The negativity is also contagious. It rubs off on me, and I really dislike it. Iím not a confrontational person, but this type of behavior really makes me puff up and want to argue. I hate arguing. But I also hate seeing discussions of the things I enjoy become cesspits of negativity. It dominates the conversation and it becomes impossible to find conversations with people who actually like the thing they say they like. I assume because the people who donít want to engage in it just go away. Itís like the worst part of being a fan of something is the other fans.

    Iím ranting on the org but this isnít an org problem. Itís an Internet problem. I reflexively blame Twitter because it has gameified snark culture to the extent that people are rewarded for having the hottest take and the coldest put-down, but it existed far earlier than that. I took part in it in my early days here; my ****** adolescent attitude lasted into my mid-20s. I thought I was funny then, but I donít know if people now are trying to be funny.

    I donít really have a point. Just wanted to kvetch.
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  2. #2
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    It think it's really mostly certain types of fans that make it not as enjoyable.

    Casual fans are fine.
    Super fans are fine.

    But then you get some hardcore fans who somehow believe they know and understand a franchise better than everyone one else and also know what's best for it. The only opinion that matters to them is their own.
    "A fool always finds a greater fool to admire him."

  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior Brasco's Avatar
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    I consider myself a hardcore collector but knowledge wise Iím more casual. Iím totally fine with that. I try to stay away from any negativity but thereís no escaping it, itís everywhere. So yes itís very annoying seeing grown men act the way that they do
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    Papi Loco Hamato Yoshi's Avatar
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    I wish we could express our opinions without having to be lumped in with a "for" or "against" group.

    Only one side is allowed to be negative. Everyone else has to keep their mouth shut if they don't like something.
    Last edited by Hamato Yoshi; August 20, 2021 at 02:24pm.

  5. #5
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi View Post
    I wish we could express our opinions without having to be lumped in with a "for" or "against" group.

    Only one side is allowed to be negative. Everyone else has to keep their mouth shut if they don't like something.
    It's the fault of both the poster and the person reading the post.

    When very little detail is given people make up their own.

    Without making examples I think it's best to just say, the less someone knows about you, the more likely they are to assume (note: there are some really great people in this world that don't do this and are a treat to be around and befriend). The rest of us though need time and experience to get to know someone. First impressions mean more to us. But a bad first impression can be totally changed over time with more experience.
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  6. #6
    Heroic Warrior AlexApprobation's Avatar
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    You are not alone in this. I personally feel the same way. For all of the positive interactions and information gained from the fan groups, there's an equal or worse amount of negativity, division, and toxicity that makes one consider if being involved in fan communities worth the time, effort, or energy.

    It's exhausting. And it really should not be this way.

    We're here as an escape from our already stressful lives. We're here for fun, enjoyment, and to share with like-minded kindred spirits.

    Twitter culture/influence has pushed this type of chaos and toxicity forward, but that's a symptom of a bigger problem: Human nature. But I won't go on that rant, so I will try to end on something better:

    I really wish fandom communities would be better and do better.
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    Heroic Warrior davelove81's Avatar
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    I'm kind of feeling the same way , I normally approach any new show/film/franchise with an open mind , and actively look for things to enjoy about whatever it is . If it impresses me enough , I stand by it and any new version has a higher bar to jump to impress me more .When I Love it , I say so , when I don't , I say why ,then go about my day .

    but revelation and now again with the cgi show , everyone seems to have pitched thier tents in the " for" or " against" camp already , very few people have the ability to change thier mind or admit that they're wrong , and I feel like if I talk about the cgi show and say " man at arms is a Father figure First and an inventor second" all of a sudden I get " it's for kids ! It's a new take ! How dare you !" Or if I say " I was apprehensive about revelation but it ended up being great" I get told I'm a shill , I'm deluded , I'm just lapping up anything with a motu logo . I've never been black and white though , I like what I like , I approach things positively ,look for things to enjoy and I leave things I don't like alone and ultimately I'm happier for it .

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    Last edited by davelove81; August 20, 2021 at 03:10pm.

  8. #8
    Heroic Warrior ProteinNerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    I reflexively blame Twitter because it has gameified snark culture.
    I couldnít agree more. Twitter is an absolute cancer on society. Itís been shown to increase depression and anxiety and just seems to bring out the worst in people, or maybe it just attracts the worst kind of people?

    I donít have an account but I still hear so much about what is tweeted and itís just absolutely terrible.

    As for the negativity of fandoms, Iím as guilty as anyone of being drawn into a stupid online argument but Iíve found blocking particular users and just unsubscribing from certain threads has helped my enjoyment of this site in particular a lot. Itís sad that we have to do this but if thatís what stops it being a joy then thatís what Iím going to do.

  9. #9
    Heroic Dad, Teacher, Nerd Uki's Avatar
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    I'm a huge fan of plenty of things, but I can't stand fandoms at times. Generally, if someone is voicing an opinion different from mine, I give them a worthwhile listen. Often, when people share these thoughts constructively, it opens my eyes (or theirs!) to different takes. What I can't stand is the ignorant, loud-mouthing-of-the-internet that comes up so often.

    I love the Org, and I think we generally do pretty well, but other platforms disgust me. (FB and Youtube get pretty rotten; I avoid most others and simply block anyone like that on IG, which is probably my favorite social media haunt.)

    My favorite properties are MOTU, Star Wars, TMNT, Ghostbusters, and DC (mostly Batman), and I've seen some nastiness in all of those fandoms, but at the end of the day, I also have the luxury of sharing these interests with several family members (especially my wife and daughter!), friends, students, and a few great people I only know through places like IG and the Org, so it can be easy to simply tune out all the noise.
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  10. #10
    Heroic Warrior Rikki Roxx's Avatar
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    Yeah, I pretty much agree. I've mentioned before about way back when I first got on the internet, one of the most exciting things to me was the fact that I could go and interact with other people who ostensibly liked and were fans of the same things I was.

    That excitement lasted about five minutes, once I realized (even back then) that most of the "discourse" among "fans" is just everybody telling everybody else that the thing they like is terrible. That was over 20 years ago and it's only gotten worse.

    Everything surrounding "Revelation" is a reinforcement of why I just plain do not like it anymore when things I liked as a kid are brought back, outside of in toy form. New shows and movies do nothing but lead to more arguing. I'm much happier leaving things in the past to be joyously revisited. Even if something new comes out and you like it, the only thing you get is a bunch of people telling you that you're a moron with no taste or a bad person or whatever else.

    I was debating just not coming around anymore, but I do have a good time in general here so I decided to just scale back and mostly stick to the Other forum for now. The CGI Netflix show holds no interest for me and that's where the MOTU conversation has shifted, so I just plain have nothing to say about that. I liked "Revelation" but it's pretty much done a definitive fact that it's done more harm than good, I kind of wish it never happened, and regardless, there's simply no point in any more "conversation" about it, period. So I'm pretty much only invested in MOTU as far as the toys, at this point. I HAD a lot of excitement about the brand's "resurgence" about a year ago, but... well, not so much, anymore. It's just the same kind of stuff I see in every other "fandom" that makes me not engage with them.

    At least we got some cool new toys, if nothing else. I wish that going forward companies would just stick to making action figures, and let old cartoons and TV shows stay in the past. It's "safer". And it leads to a lot less vitriol and base-breaking. I've seen enough reboots and everything in my lifetime to feel like very little good comes from trying to bring these things back to life. Just do toys, leave everything else alone.
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  11. #11
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    I get the point(s) you are trying to make but exhausting isn't the word I'd use. I would only use that in the literal sense of going from brick store to brick store looking for said product, or scouring the interwebs for it.

    For me I'd use words like agitating, perplexing or frustrating.

    And in the case of the Revelation thread I'd use the word overwhelming.

    I blame a small list of things.

  12. #12
    Liberty, justice, peace. The All American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadley View Post
    Iím ranting on the org but this isnít an org problem. Itís an Internet problem. I reflexively blame Twitter because it has gameified snark culture to the extent that people are rewarded for having the hottest take and the coldest put-down, but it existed far earlier than that. I took part in it in my early days here; my ****** adolescent attitude lasted into my mid-20s. I thought I was funny then, but I donít know if people now are trying to be funny.
    Definitely. Twitter and other mainstream social media platforms have a lot of great benefits in terms of instant information, but they're mostly cesspools of negativity and extremely addictive.

    My best advice is just to limit your public social media interactions and time spent on there as much as possible and/or insulate yourself with quality people in private discussion groups that share your same likes and passions. Or even just get completely off and go back to the old days when you were a kid and just interacted with the products in front of you.

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  14. #14
    Papi Loco Hamato Yoshi's Avatar
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    It’s only exhausting if you’re being dishonest. Be true to yourself and you don’t have to put so much work into trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. You’re not going to convince us toxic man babies that your ____ programming is not wet garbage, so just accept it. You can admit the show is bad.
    Last edited by Uki; August 30, 2021 at 02:10pm.

  15. #15
    Heroic Warrior wyldman11's Avatar
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    It's something that gets brought up here from time to time. I understand the basis for the problem which might help free some from the issue but not all.

    1)When someone says something negative about something we like is taken as an attack on us as it can come off as insult to our tastes implying they said tastes are bad.

    2) longer and more the real problem. Not always explicitly stated but their is an underlying 'rule' that liking something is subjective, but disliking something is objective. Think about it though, and ask yourself the questions about this and you will see likely you hold this thought without realizing it. For example how people are more likely to know the negative reasons for color use but not positive ones. We found it easier to negatively criticize something that positively criticize. Think this has to go back to even in education systems they try to teach us how to do the positive, but they do it with things that most people don't like. It's harder (more effective in the long run though) to teach someone in this manner as you have to overcome their dislike. The problem is most of the time the dislike isn't overcome.

    Several years back their started this whole protected thread thing, only come into this post if you have positive things to say or the opposite. The positive threads were often much smaller having fewer posts and much less discussion. It failed of course because it kind of didn't change anything.

    Similar issue is most people actually don't know how to take a compliment, misinterpretation of intent happens, a need to point out negative things, or just outright denial.

    the problem is we are fighting something on a cultural level, and yes the internet didn't make it worse just more obvious.

    it's frustrating talking to people about positive aspects of something, yes we can't ignore negative things but we can't treat the positive as that's just your opinion and the negative as absolute fact.
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  16. #16
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi View Post
    Itís only exhausting if youíre being dishonest. Be true to yourself and you donít have to put so much work into trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. Youíre not going to convince us toxic man babies that your ____ programming is not wet garbage, so just accept it. You can admit the show is bad. The orange man canít hurt you anymore.
    This is a perfect example, thank you. Tells me what I'm doing wrong with no real content on the subject matter (being a fan is exhausting).

    And, as an added bonus, we even get a political jab for free!
    "A fool always finds a greater fool to admire him."

  17. #17
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    it absolutely is... its just cries and complaints with no real constructive criticism.. and its all angry for some reason. I find it best to just ignore it all.. block whoever, I've stopped going to boards in hopes of meeting new "fans", its just for buying and trading now. I'm all good with that. If that last 2 years proved anything is that people are just... plain ...awful and the less of them in my life the better.. I have my crew and im good.

    I just stick to my own world( of fandom), other folks opinion about subjective material is meaningless to me, Its all art and nobody foolish opinion shield have any bearing on it.
    nope

  18. #18
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    And yet here you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by H.A.L.9000 View Post
    it absolutely is... its just cries and complaints with no real constructive criticism.. and its all angry for some reason. I find it best to just ignore it all.. block whoever, I've stopped going to boards in hopes of meeting new "fans", its just for buying and trading now. I'm all good with that. If that last 2 years proved anything is that people are just... plain ...awful and the less of them in my life the better.. I have my crew and im good.

    I just stick to my own world( of fandom), other folks opinion about subjective material is meaningless to me, Its all art and nobody foolish opinion shield have any bearing on it.

  19. #19
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    Don't put the blame squarely on those who are upset with something. The companies we buy from are constantly doing things they know the fans aren't going to like, or at the very least they know that it will divide the fanbase. They are also making it harder and harder for the fans to afford and find the things they want to buy, and they are mishandling distribution to such a degree that lines are prematurely canceled. They're throwing the chum in the water, and you can't ignore that fact.

  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior ProteinNerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholighkun View Post
    Don't put the blame squarely on those who are upset with something. The companies we buy from are constantly doing things they know the fans aren't going to like, or at the very least they know that it will divide the fanbase. They are also making it harder and harder for the fans to afford and find the things they want to buy, and they are mishandling distribution to such a degree that lines are prematurely canceled. They're throwing the chum in the water, and you can't ignore that fact.
    I think then blame lies more squarely on the Media, Social Media and politicians than retail companies, although they arenít blameless.

    Outrage clicks for add revenue is way more profitable and easier than actual journalism. Add social
    Mediaís algorithms to present content that it learns pushes your outrage buttons and infinite scrolling to keep you there longer and longer, itís perfect storm for a divided yet addictively engaged audience.

    If you havenít watched the documentary ďThe Social DilemmaĒ itís worth a watch. A heap of ex-developers of Facebook, Insta etc that have left their high paying jobs because of the social damage they can see the platforms doing.

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior Glasstor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.A.L.9000 View Post
    it absolutely is... its just cries and complaints with no real constructive criticism.. and its all angry for some reason. I find it best to just ignore it all.. block whoever, I've stopped going to boards in hopes of meeting new "fans", its just for buying and trading now. I'm all good with that. If that last 2 years proved anything is that people are just... plain ...awful and the less of them in my life the better.. I have my crew and im good.

    I just stick to my own world( of fandom), other folks opinion about subjective material is meaningless to me, Its all art and nobody foolish opinion shield have any bearing on it.
    I agree with you that the last two years has brought out the worst(or real) in many people and ignoring the tripe is the best we can do. And, itís really hard to do.

    As a longtime fan but, new to being involved/ a part of the community, it bums me out to hear so many leaving the community or not wanting to make new fan-friends. I have heard this in Star Wars over the last few years(and feel this way too, at times) but, if we let the community go, whatís left to enjoy? We can all rewatch our favorites or share our toys with family, kids, a few friends but, can we survive as merely a toy collecting group or a fandom overcome with the negative? Donít we need the balance? This has been an overwhelming year for a multitude of reasons including the immense amount of MOTU. Iím definitely tired but, the friends Iíve made over the last year here make me happy. Now, if you all were within 20 miles of me it would be perfect!

    Not trying to reel you back in- your words just made me think a little

  22. #22
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    I'd be much more forgiving of other people's tastes in revamps if they weren't' such jerks towards the material they all originate from. Did things like Filmation run over their dog? No. For some strange reason, the sheer bile that spews forth from people towards the older versions of these properties makes it seem an awful lot like they resent them for 'conning' them into buying toys when they could have been saving up for the future (where they continue to buy toys).

    The minute a newer, shinier modern toy comes along, they show just how 'loyal' they are to their childhoods by mocking and deriding what charmed and inspired them as kids, because the new stuff is 'so more grown up' (even when it factually isn't and you find it's just as corny as you get older and even further away from that show's own demographic) , it might be an age thing, but I like to think older versions, the blueprint for everything, have something of merit to this day, they have the charm, the fun, the sparkle, and the innocence, and they make you feel innocent watching them. Subject those properties to your own kids and they will fall in love with them the same way you did. Anything that does that does not need the insults.

    Respect your childhood shows, and you'll swiftly find it means finding respect for yourself.

  23. #23
    Heroic sculptor of toys Battle_Brak's Avatar
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    It really is. Most of the fan bases I used to be pretty active in are just toxic cesspools anymore. The crap that started with Star Wars where everything new is “destroying my childhood” has permeated so many of the fandoms now. It’s impossible to find groups where you can just enjoy new media, toys, etc. it’s always drowned out by people who just want to complain about everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron Samurai View Post
    I'd be much more forgiving of other people's tastes in revamps if they weren't' such jerks towards the material they all originate from. Did things like Filmation run over their dog? No. For some strange reason, the sheer bile that spews forth from people towards the older versions of these properties makes it seem an awful lot like they resent them for 'conning' them into buying toys when they could have been saving up for the future (where they continue to buy toys).

    The minute a newer, shinier modern toy comes along, they show just how 'loyal' they are to their childhoods by mocking and deriding what charmed and inspired them as kids, because the new stuff is 'so more grown up' (even when it factually isn't and you find it's just as corny as you get older and even further away from that show's own demographic) , it might be an age thing, but I like to think older versions, the blueprint for everything, have something of merit to this day, they have the charm, the fun, the sparkle, and the innocence, and they make you feel innocent watching them. Subject those properties to your own kids and they will fall in love with them the same way you did. Anything that does that does not need the insults.

    Respect your childhood shows, and you'll swiftly find it means finding respect for yourself.
    I don’t think I need to pretend to like a show to have respect for myself. That’s just silly. Also I tried introducing my nieces and nephews to MOTU through the Filmation cartoons and it didn’t work. One at 6 years old informed me it was “the stupidest thing I have ever seen.” So maybe not the best entry point. Children’s programming is far more sophisticated now than it was 40 years ago.
    Last edited by Battle_Brak; August 29, 2021 at 01:43pm.
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  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior Universe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi View Post
    It’s only exhausting if you’re being dishonest. Be true to yourself and you don’t have to put so much work into trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. You’re not going to convince us toxic man babies that your ____ programming is not wet garbage, so just accept it. You can admit the show is bad.

    What you have decided is "just being honest" with others is viewed to many people as you putting your negative and intentionally insulting attitude in other people's faces. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with other people, but your disagreements are rarely backed up by a good analysis of the problem you think you see, and usually amount to you just labeling the thing you don't like "wet garbage" followed by snarky commentary. Hopefully you don't treat people you know in real life with the same attitude you treat people with online, because I can't imagine you have many friends if you do.

    I'm putting you on ignore because you add an incredible amount of negativity to discussions for how little analysis you actually contribute. Life is too short to spend it trying to formulate responses to your takes.
    Last edited by Uki; August 30, 2021 at 02:11pm.

  25. #25
    Life is good Dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi View Post
    Let me repeat myself. YOU ARE EXHAUSTED BECAUSE YOU ARE LYING TO YOURSELF. YOU KNOW IT ISN'T GOOD. YOU KNOW IT WAS MADE TO ANGER CERTAIN FANS.
    My point was that everyone else in the thread was speaking mostly for themselves. And then you pop in to tell the rest of us what's "actually" happening.

    Maybe instead of the rest of us lying to ourselves, you just need to keep repeating that phrase so you'll believe it's true? Otherwise us saying it's not might throw you off your devotion to the idea.

    It's impossible to me to imagine that a company spent a lot of money, not to be profitable, but just to make certain people angry. Doesn't that sound crazy?
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